Problems accurately perceiving "Real Time Zone" - validation fails!

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GrumpyRabbit

So, among all the times I've managed to astral project (which I take to be those times I was taken somewhere by the invisible hands after I stated where I wanted to go, or when I was sent somewhere before I got a chance to say anything), I have twice used the roll-out method to stay in my room. I put a tarot card face-up on a high shelf. I wanted to float up there to see it, so I can have at least one instance of validation for myself.

I'm trying to figure out what's happening and why it's all going wrong. Here are my two experiences below, and here are the possibilities that might be involved:

1) I'm rolling-out into my room, but have not yet developed the capacity to see things accurately
2) I'm rolling-out into my room, but for some reason am being kept from getting this validation for myself
3) I'm not actually ending up in my room but in some other place that I think is my room, and kinda looks like my room, but isn't
4) I'm rolling-out into my room and then somehow transitioning into a lucid dream where it kinda looks like my room, but with false details
5) Something else???

8 July 2020

Tried the roll-out method, as I wanted to stay in my room and look to the tarot card as validation. I reached out and felt for my desk, and the side of my bed, as I rolled and moved down, to keep track of where I was. I got out, and went to go look at the card. I'm not sure if I was really in my room or something else weird happened. There was a guy in my room that tried to alert me to the fact that me, my physical body, was getting up and basically "sleep walking" so to speak. I told him to help me, I couldn't deal with my body right now, I had to use my chance to look at the tarot card! I had trouble hearing the guy talk. It was like his mouth was moving, but I couldn't hear him. Then I commanded myself/body to get back into bed - thankfully it listened to me and laid back down. I went to the shelf to look at the card, which should have been face up. But it was face down. Underneath it was a second card. Both cards didn't have a proper image on the front. Effectively, they both had two "back of card designs" on them. I held the two cards and was upset, I asked the guy in my room why I couldn't see what the image was? He said some weird clue, "The ear is on the wrong side for the head," as if this would help me figure out which card it was. He seemed to talk to me more about who he was, but I either couldn't hear, couldn't understand, or don't remember. Obviously, there is only one tarot card on my shelf, and it's face up, and my physical body never got up and walked around while I was out, so I have no idea what "level" of reality I was operating at, and why I saw the clearly false things I did, when I was theoretically in my room.

I did not look at the card, since I had no real information as to what it might be. I left it on the shelf to try again.

11 July 2020

In and out of weird lucid dreams (I think) all morning, I was laying in bed waiting to transition to my next weird dream experience, when I wondered if I could actually just get out of my body. I tentatively began moving my right energy arm, reaching out slowly to see if I could reach over and grab the edge of my desk. As soon as I felt it, I knew I could get up and disengage fully from the physical body. I immediately floated up to the shelf to look at the card. I STILL saw two cards, even tho it was still the same single card. This time, however, I saw them face-up (slight improvement!). I saw that the two cards were 3 of Wands, and Strength. However, the images were clearly not from my deck (Rider-Waite-Smith). I remember specifically that I looked at the image for the 3 of Wands and marveled at it, trying to remember every detail, thinking, wow, this is a fascinating representation of this card! I said the names of the two cards to myself over and over, so I would remember. I was clearly aware of the fact that there was only supposed to be one card, but even out of my body, I was hoping to myself that at least one of the ones I "saw" was correct!

No surprise but when I got up and checked, it was obviously not either of those cards. Not even close. At least this time I wasn't seeing other bogus things like my physical body wandering about!

Leads to further questions: Have you guys experienced similar problems, where you see obviously false things like this? Is this a problem that resolves over time, as you gain more skills? Have you come to the conclusion that you were kept from seeing things accurately, intentionally, for some reason? Do you have any advice on how to get better seeing RTZ details accurately? What do you think is going on?

Lumaza

  Here lies the problem Grumpy! You are rolling out of body into what "seems" to be your immediate surroundings, yet, you are already in a NPR. The likeness of your room seems to be there, but if you look around you will find "reality fluctuations" that show you that you are in some kind of dimensional double of your real physical surroundings. Hence, you are in the RTZ (real time zone) already.

I know that may be hard to swallow. So, you need to investigate that on our own. Go explore the surroundings you find yourself in. You will soon see what I mean.

Right now you are using the "roll out technique" for OBEs. Almost always, that technique will lead to a RTZ experience. Why, you may ask? Because it is still a technique that uses a focus on a "body", whether that body be your physical body or your "etheric" one.

When you Phase, your first focus is anything that is not involving your physical form,. Those techniques revolve around counting, visualizing, there are all kinds of ways to do it.

Also, the fact that you have placed your intent and desire to have a RTZ experiences is coming through due to your "expectations" of that fact.

Next time this occurs, explore the area you find yourself in. Ground yourself to that scene to prolong the experience. There is normally some kind of teaching to be found there, otherwise you wouldn't have found yourself there in the first place. Allow the scenario to manifest as "it" wishes, not how you do. Take a back seat at first and become aware of your surroundings. For some reason people say you should get a distance away form your physical body. I find though that that could be because you would still be tempted to look back at our physical self, which normally ends the experience then and there.

You are doing great though. Keep it up! I can see you are learning on the go. That seems to be the way of the NPR!  :-)
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla

Athensis

Hi Grumpy, This experience had me go back in my journal 9 years to when I tried the card trick.
I agree with everything that Lumaza  has just said. ( a very wise and experienced person)
If I was to compare experiences then I used the roll out method and found myself in what I understood to be my bedroom. ( A lot of my work at the beginning was what is talked of as Real Time Zone ( RTZ)  in my house , mostly the bedroom. ) I remember floating downstairs but deciding to hold onto the stair rail just in case I was really sleep walking and ended up with a broken neck . At the same time I floated downstairs so knew that I was really out but just being cautious.

Yes reality fluctuations are spoken of and are quite common. I got to my living room and saw that the fireplace was missing. This was something that I had been thinking of doing in the future but in physical it was and IS still here now.
Also the wooden flooring was down that I had been thinking of doing at that time as but at that time  it still had a carpet down. The noticeable thing here was that it was in a rose colour which I would never choose. But these anomalies were noted at the time.
Floating through to the dining room at a height I remember approaching the tall clock in the corner where the previous day I had placed a card face upwards for this very experiment whenever I was lucky enough to get out again.
I couldn't make out the card, it was as if a piece of paper was over it but in physical there wasn't. I put my hand forward to try to lift off what ever was blocking the view and remember seeing my long thin fingers and arm , holographic, just appear to go through the card. No luck so ended the experience.

The next day I pondered over this and was very disappointed at the result. This was the one time I could have proven to myself that Everything that was happening to me  wasn't all my  imagination.
I remember thinking.... " If I had seen It...JACK OF SPADES .. I wonder what it would have been ? Jack Of Spades".
Twice this Jack of Spades came before I had even put my mind to what it could have been.
Needless to say when I decided to check the card it was Jack Of Spades.

So here goes as to my way of thinking, I didn't just guess. Part of me knew. How? When I was heavily into Robert Bruces New Energy Ways (NEW ) I once met ME. She materialised next to me on The pillow to my right and was so happy to connect. I was looking at her amazed and exited thinking " I can see her! She is prettier". I then became the thoughts of the other me. I was so so happy that she could see me . I was having the thoughts of both these me's, ending with my full attention being in my physical body watching other me signal for me to now go to sleep in a humorous way.

So I don't know why I didnt see the card clearly but the other me probably did, letting me know the next day.
As time goes on and experiences develop there is definitely a part of me that is in more control of the show.

So well done and don't give up. The words that kept repeating over and over in my mind the next day
DON,T LOOSE FAITH JUST BECAUSE YOU DON,T UNDERSTAND.


GrumpyRabbit

Thank you, Lumaza and Athensis! This is all really helpful. Also, it brings a few more questions to mind.

I'm thinking of those accounts of people having NDEs or being thrown from their bodies due to a shock trauma, like a car accident - they, too, float above the scene and look down on themselves. I know that people who have these experiences, whether they are unconscious or clinically "dead", can report with great accuracy conversations that were going on, things happening in the hallway, etc. So, it seems like it must be possible to truly be in our world, just floating around like a ghost (as it were) - right?

If so...how did that happen? How did they leave their bodies, but still be HERE and perceive things so accurately? Is there a way that, with time, we can do that, too?

And, just wondering what everyone's theories are about why these inaccuracies happen. Like, do people/experts in this tend to think it's more on the side of "we don't have sufficient skill to perceive things accurately" or, "The Powers That Be are not letting us see things accurately for some higher reason".

LightBeam

Quote from: GrumpyRabbit on July 12, 2020, 18:34:39
Thank you, Lumaza and Athensis! This is all really helpful. Also, it brings a few more questions to mind.

I'm thinking of those accounts of people having NDEs or being thrown from their bodies due to a shock trauma, like a car accident - they, too, float above the scene and look down on themselves. I know that people who have these experiences, whether they are unconscious or clinically "dead", can report with great accuracy conversations that were going on, things happening in the hallway, etc. So, it seems like it must be possible to truly be in our world, just floating around like a ghost (as it were) - right?

If so...how did that happen? How did they leave their bodies, but still be HERE and perceive things so accurately? Is there a way that, with time, we can do that, too?

And, just wondering what everyone's theories are about why these inaccuracies happen. Like, do people/experts in this tend to think it's more on the side of "we don't have sufficient skill to perceive things accurately" or, "The Powers That Be are not letting us see things accurately for some higher reason".


I dont think it's a matter of skills, as NDEs happen once for certain people and they recall events so accurately. But NDEs are different than APs, right, because during NDE the person is probably 99% disconnected from the body, where as during APs we are very much alive and connected to the physical body, we are just able to adjust to some degree our frequencies to observe some parts of the Non-Physical World and we dont have as much consciousness/awareness  and energy transferred there due to being oriented here at this time. I think this is the difference that makes their experiences very clear and accurate, They are free of boundaries and are able to observe without restrictions. This is just my theory that makes most sense to me. During APs I have had some accurate observations that I validated afterwards, but some did not match. That does not bother me at all, since then I have stopped searching for such validations and have focused on going to higher realms exploring other worlds and experiences. I have no interest in spying at anyone here or solving earth mysteries. The reason we observe different surroundings of our physical world is that there are so many parallel and probable realities. We also have so many parallel and probable selves not only of this character we know now, but many others, so in the NP there is no space time continuum, everything exists here and now, the only difference is where is our awareness tune to. And we observe it as a point in time from our perspective. The multiverse is so vast and complex that we cant expect to know it all from our limited perspective as physical characters. If you come to terms with this, then you will be free to just explore, learn and have joy. And know that EVERYTHING happens for a reason. We have to ask and understand what the reason is, as it contains knowledge that we have to realize.
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

Fourthdimension

It has been a long time since, I have posted and I have to much to say about this so am gonna try to condense it into a summary
I also experience what you are experiencing.

When I first started , I would end up in the real time zone and it gave me belief that the afterlife existed and we werent alone.
so i continued experimenting trying not to be biased and trying to be scientificand objective.


Since then i have moved country several times, the first timr i moved country, everything changed.
The projections just came to be so surreal to be true
A lot of my experiences have been quite 'scary' (dont really wanna use that word but it dumd tjings up quicker)

Now i try not to project but often find mysrlf popping out during the night and left feeling unerved.

So, thank you for the post because whether or not this us real or jyst a conjuring of our subconscious, i wsnt to fix it, do i can enjoy it again.

this post is just what i needed to read
Click here
for the astral pulse chat and type in the channel #ubchat
alternatively go to http://webchat.freenode.net

Lumaza

 This is a great conversation. Thank You for starting it Grumpy!  :-) It is something that many of us have experienced or still are experiencing today.

I agree with Lightbeam's excellent explanation. In a NDE you have already abandoned or are still in the process of abandoning your "physical vessel" for good. Now you are in what they call in Buddhism the "Bardo" state. The state between. We see this evident by rituals that have been used in Funerals to "release" the soul, aka consciousness form this Earth. I used the word "ritual" there because some people, especially those of a religious upbringing, seem to be quick to attack the word or practice of "Magick". Magick is "the Science and Art of cause change to occur in conformity with will". The exact same thing applies to "Prayer" as well.

My point there was that because they appeared to be not coming back, they at the time would be what we call Ghosts. Because they are still on this Earthly plane, they could see and witness everything around them. A good friend of mine that was not likeminded with me at all had a profound NDE. He went on to have a few more before he finally transitioned for good. He told me about his experience living a lifetime as a part of a home. He said he was a 2x4 in the wall. But at night time he frequented the bars with some ladies. During the day though, he just watched the lives of the couple that owned the home. He felt he lived a lifetime during that experience.

Now back to the cards. One thing I find very difficult is reading in the NPR. I went through a series of NPR tests and challenges based on reading and things like that when I was first new to this practice. When you find yourself in the act of "noticing", which is a big part of Phasing, you will find very faint almost ghostly  fading in and out visuals/imagery will occur. When that does your mind will immediately kick in and attempt to fill in the blanks. Example of this: I see clearly the letters BLu on a door. In the past immediately my mind would kick in and try to fill in the blanks there. Nowadays though, I am just observing it while passively aware. If I need to see the whole word, it will reveal itself. If it all disappears, so be it. Soon there will be a more vivid visual that will reveal itself in entirety.

Lightbeam is also correct when she speaks of the many other dimensions and versions of ourselves.

l I spoke above about your mindset still being physically oriented. When I was first new to the practice of Phasing I went through a series of strange teachings that had to do with me learning the importance of disassociating myself from my physical self. This came through imagery such as seeing my etheric body being eaten "Pac Man" style. When I do a Phase soak session, I am kind of cramped in my bathtub. My body is much longer than it, so my neck is raised against one wall and my feet and legs climbing up the wall on the other side of the tub. After I do my healing Mantra, which normally takes a few minutes, I feel nothing at all. No body, just emptiness and vastness. I have talked to other members here that experienced very similar thing too. Once I learned how to disassociate my focus from my physical self, I began experiencing the NPR through the focus of a single point of consciousness. I experienced what it was like to be a wave on the water and a leaf on a tree, all kinds of unique things. This showed me there is "limit" to what you can do or see. The only limits seem to come when you attempt to explain things you see and do there to people that are only physically focused.

Now when I awaken in full SP or at the onset of a SP experience, my focus is on my physical body or what I perceive to be my physical body. I sense vibration. I hear the Astral Winds. The next thing I know, I feel my body rising. With me, it begins with my ankles. First I feel them being lifted. Then I feel my legs rising and many times the next thing I know, I am being dragged by my ankles quickly down my hallway, to my dining room and out my patio window. I have always questioned this because we have two large windows in our bedroom!  :| So yes, at that time I am still in a physical focus or mindset. I could easily stay around and explore whatever version of my bedroom I find myself in, but at that time, I am being whisked away to something that seems to be necessary or more pressing at that moment.

I have never really attempted to validate anything that happens in the "Otherwheres", although I know many people attempt to. I have had NP experiences that came true though. Today I still create my Crystal Amplifiers that were first shown to me in a NPR Art Museum. Years ago I had a NPR experience that helped us avert a bad situation that was going to occur in our Company. That was a saving Grace there.

I know some people that do "Retrievals" attempt to validate them as well. My first and only thought when I do a Retrieval is how to help the soul I am working with move on. I never think of "self" during them.


"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla

Lumaza

Quote from: Fourthdimension on July 12, 2020, 21:22:02
The projections just came to be so surreal to be true
A lot of my experiences have been quite 'scary' (dont really wanna use that word but it dumd tjings up quicker)

Now i try not to project but often find mysrlf popping out during the night and left feeling unerved.
I have found that yes the experiences to be very "surreal". During a OBE from a spontaneous SP episode, you are already at a heightened sense of awareness. Because of this, it is very easy to have things get out of hand quickly, especially with the fact that thought = action almost instantly there.

I will say though that many of my Retrievals seem to occur in these dark, desolate, Hellish places. My sense of curiosity always is a driving force to keep me grounded there though. You always have the option to use thought = action to create a atmosphere of Unicorns and Rainbows if you wish. Try to explore the dark places. Seek out why you are there. Why you are experiencing it. Why you being "shown" this. Is it a "Fear Test"? If it is, once you confront it, you will find the Unicorns and Rainbows that you seek!  :-)
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla

EscapeVelocity

GrumpyRabbit,

Wow, a lot to unpack here. I spent two hours last week and an hour last night typing responses to this and another thread of yours only to have my computer crash and lose them...what frustration! I'm on my IPad tonight.

First, everyone's answers have been beneficial to your finding a new and more expansive perspective on all this. And the truth is that we have all had to do this...and still do today. I am continually being pushed to broaden my understanding and perspective; I'm not sure now that will ever end. With that said, my simplest advice is this: Quit thinking about OBE from a "physical" perspective. An OBE or astral projection, by their very nature, defy almost if not all, our physical world ideas and constraints. We can fly, walk through walls, walk through active volcanoes, breathe underwater, teleport, see 360 degrees around ourselves simultaneously, communicate telepathically, observe from 3 different viewpoints simultaneously...and on and on.

To do this, we have to drop the "physical" mindset and develop a new NP mindset. No doubt, no fear, no boundaries.

So for the reasons LightBeam and Lumaza pointed out, a NDE is likely a very exceptional event that brings a level of clarity to the experiencer that is typically a one-time affair of special communication and importance. It likely combines the "Classic"  etheric OBE with some astral level information and a level of clarity that is particular to the near death experience where a person is brought right to that point of departure and then brought back with a chance to re-think their life.

GR, your descriptions of your OBEs are well-detailed and very thoroughly described. They match my early experiences as well as most that I have read of others. Having been through it myself, I can understand the confusion and frustration you feel. I felt the same way at the time. Now, years later and some further experiences and some time to consider it all, I have additional perspective. Where you are right now is possibly the most confusing and bewildering time of all; and there are a multitude of reasons, not all of which we understand, but we can offer some ideas. So to give a quick answer to your five initial questions...

It's partly #1 and it's mostly #3 and maybe a tiny bit #4...

Because there are so many different factors at play here. You are in an unfamiliar 'energy' body with new and unfamiliar sensory modalities, in an unfamiliar environment that has its own distortions, and with an uneducated NP mindset that IS different from your physical mindset. Plus there are possible environmental factors at play here, such as the proximity of your energy body to your physical body which early on can cause a type of feedback distortion similar to hypnogogia or sleep paralysis (hence the guy who pestered you with unhelpful comments). And if your awareness takes a dip at any point in any of this confusion, yes you can easily drift into a lucid dream or a regular dream. There are a lot of inhibiting factors crowding around you in this type of experience. Fun, right?!

Lumaza makes the point of differentiating these early experiences from the later ones. These early ones are 'down and dirty' but they all teach us something. The later ones, the Phasing types...they are cleaner and more clear; difficult in new and different ways, but a step up. That's not to discount the value of these early RTZ experiences; they are important and you will likely move through them in six months or a year or so.

Don't get lost in trying to figure out these RTZ events too much. Learn from them what they immediately have to show you. Learn to ground yourself by grabbing a handrail or something physical. Learn about movement And touch and vision...none of it is like its physical counterpart. You have many new senses to discover. Learn to solidify your awareness in the moment. Wonder at your perception.

If you want some real fun, try looking into a mirror.

EV

Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
                                                          -O. Wilde

EscapeVelocity

Fourthdimension,

Would you like to share some of the issues that you are facing, concerning any worries you may have with your out of body experiences? These NP experiences can be confusing and unnerving at times...I've had them and I know others who have had them. But they can usually be understood more completely with some discussion and any fears are usually dispelled with greater understanding.

As a member and a mod, I am glad that you have chosen to rejoin and share, so thank you. Glad to have you back.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
                                                          -O. Wilde

GrumpyRabbit

Fascinating conversation! So many thoughts:

Quote from: LightBeam on July 12, 2020, 19:44:31

in the NP there is no space time continuum, everything exists here and now, the only difference is where is our awareness tune to. And we observe it as a point in time from our perspective.


Lightbeam, does this mean it's theoretically possible to tune our awareness more clearly to our physical reality here on earth?

Quote from: Lumaza on July 13, 2020, 00:22:26
In a NDE you have already abandoned or are still in the process of abandoning your "physical vessel" for good. Now you are in what they call in Buddhism the "Bardo" state.


Lumaza, what about people who aren't having NDEs - people experiencing trauma. Psychology calls it "dissociation", and extreme dissociation is when people describe themselves floating above their bodies, looking down on the scene. This happens to people who have been in terrible car accidents, people being raped, etc. They're alive, but the horror and shock of their experience is obviously lurching them out of their bodies, because being fully in their bodies is too threatening at the time. They're not in a bardo state and not about to die - but they seem to have perfect clarity about what's going on. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

You are right about how a stage of phasing is hypnogotic imagery appearing "behind the eyelids" as it were, and then this leads to suddenly *being* somewhere else. I haven't had great success reading anything while out, either, so I wonder why They keep handing me sheets of paper with words on them! Part of my thinking with the tarot is that there is so much distinctive imagery. I figured, even if I can't read the words, or see numbers, hopefully I can remember the pictures, and that will tell me what the card is. No dice yet, obviously!

And further, Lumaza, your point about letting go of one's "physical orientation" couldn't be more apt! Just the other day (I am seriously behind updating my Journal thread of APs!) I was taken to something that was either a beach or a large pool, so large it seemed we were at the beach and it was the ocean. They obviously wanted me to go swimming. And I stood there at the edge of the water feeling helpless because while they handed me a kickboard...I was worried about a bathing suit! Where do I change? Do I just jump in with my clothes on? Do I just take my clothes off?? Then I looked down and saw I was magically wearing a bathing suit, and I got in.

Well, "coincidentally," later that day, I think this was yesterday, I watched a talk someone somewhere in this forum posted of William Buhlman, where he talked about how silly it is that when people die, they often still manifest as MALE HUMAN, or FEMALE HUMAN. Like...why? There are no bodies. There's no gender. Welp, I wound up just laughing at myself as I watched his talk, given how very concerned I was that very morning about "bathing suits" and "potential nudity"!

Silly Rabbit =)  :-D :-D :-D


GrumpyRabbit

Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35
GrumpyRabbit,

Wow, a lot to unpack here. I spent two hours last week and an hour last night typing responses to this and another thread of yours only to have my computer crash and lose them...what frustration! I'm on my IPad tonight.


Oh no I'm so sorry! What a bummer, but thank you for having tried so diligently to try to respond to some other thread of mine. I appreciate the attempt =)


Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35

Quit thinking about OBE from a "physical" perspective.


You are totally right. See my above funny story above about the "bathing suit"!

Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35

a type of feedback distortion similar to hypnogogia or sleep paralysis (hence the guy who pestered you with unhelpful comments).


I've been wondering about this. Like whether he was a Helper Spirit there for a reason, or just a hallucination with no level of reality. But you know how when we're Out There, we still have tactile sense perception? I FELT this guy/thing. He gave me a big hug, and I remember thinking, man this is great, quarantine has meant no hugs! No human contact! I want to be hugged forever! That felt very real - unless hallucinations, even if they're not another helper entity, can also be felt?

Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35

Fun, right?!


Yes! And profound and life changing, to boot!

Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35

The later ones, the Phasing types...they are cleaner and more clear; difficult in new and different ways, but a step up.


I may not be clear on what phasing is. It seems like it's entering the nonphysical from a meditative state of "noticing" right? It goes through and past the stage of the hypnogic imagery behind the eyelids. Sometimes it seems to go that way, other times it's the classic "floating up out of the body" way. Sometimes it seems like a weird combination of the two. Like I phase in but there's also some vibration/spinning, and then I start floating horizontally, feet first - like Lumaza says, like being pulled by the ankles! In those experiences, however, I don't feel the invisible disembodied hands! Honestly I kinda miss the hands, because that first moment of feeling them carry me was possibly the most transformational moment in my entire life. I hope they come back.


Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 13, 2020, 06:01:35

If you want some real fun, try looking into a mirror.


I looked into a mirror in the astral just this morning! I looked like myself but was dressed like a harlot (oddly...this has happened twice, I'm not sure....what that means...) -- is there a difference between looking at oneself in the mirror in some weird astral place, versus looking at, say, a mirror "in my apartment" - which is I guess a weird energy double of my apartment. What happens then?!

LightBeam

Quote from: GrumpyRabbit on July 13, 2020, 18:22:27


Lightbeam, does this mean it's theoretically possible to tune our awareness more clearly to our physical reality here on earth?


yes, it is
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

omcasey

Just very quickly.....

Quote"If you want some real fun, try looking into a mirror."

I think Escape Velocity has hit the nail on the head.

It is funny how when we are out there is the assumption that we are in the consciousness, or experience of our Earth-life person.

I am almost NEVER this. So, yes, first look to see who you are - who you are will most decidedly be determining exactly where you are and what you see.

Careful. - Warning. - ......rabbit hole.

:-)

Nameless

Great read. I've been absent a few days so have a lot of catching up to do.

About the mirror. Mirrors have probably pretty much the same meaning for all of us. Look in a mirror and see your true self or an alternate self. GR what I'm saying is don't be discouraged by the "Harlot". This gives you a clue 'where' you are and this version would have something to teach you.

OmCasey just had to mention the rabbit hole, haha. If you find yourself slipping down that tunnel, look out!!

GrumpyRabbit

Quote from: Nameless on July 15, 2020, 00:39:00

About the mirror. Mirrors have probably pretty much the same meaning for all of us. Look in a mirror and see your true self or an alternate self. GR what I'm saying is don't be discouraged by the "Harlot". This gives you a clue 'where' you are and this version would have something to teach you.


WOAH WOAH WOAH. Are you saying that looking in the astral mirror and seeing myself as a harlot means that I'm seeing myself as I exist in a life in another dimension?

What.....what.....but.... :?

Since I would hope the harlot isn't my true self, this means I'm getting a glimpse into a live I'm living somewhere else? Am I misunderstanding? How can I specify where I am beyond...."another dimension"?

And, are ya'll being literal or metaphorical about looking into a mirror and falling down a tunnel/hole?

EscapeVelocity

Mirrors can be very unpredictable for many possible reasons. I have seen my 'normal' PR reflection; I've seen a ghostly, etheric, 'full of stars and colors' reflection; I've seen a fairly gross PR version that was stripped of the outer skin layer, revealing the underlying musculature and ligaments (Summerlander has an excellent rendering of this in the 9th page of the Members Artwork thread which later validated my experience for me). http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/members_artwork-t23514.200.html I have also seen no reflection at all, which was confusing and disturbing. In cases like these, I think the mirror is unusually reflective of our subconscious mental state at the time.
I've also used a mirror as a portal; so what omcasey and Nameless said about the rabbit-hole, YES! Both metaphorically and literally, lol!

As to being dressed like a harlot, I wouldn't be worried too much about past or alternate lives just yet. The reason why I will answer on that thread; I suspect that the reason you saw yourself dressed that way in the mirror, 'just by chance' was designed to keep your mind engaged on that topic as the astral projection played out its continuing theme.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
                                                          -O. Wilde

Lumaza

Quote from: EscapeVelocity on July 15, 2020, 23:00:01
Mirrors can be very unpredictable for many possible reasons. I have seen my 'normal' PR reflection; I've seen a ghostly, etheric, 'full of stars and colors' reflection; I've seen a fairly gross PR version that was stripped of the outer skin layer, revealing the underlying musculature and ligaments (Summerlander has an excellent rendering of this in the 9th page of the Members Artwork thread which later validated my experience for me). http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/members_artwork-t23514.200.html I have also seen no reflection at all, which was confusing and disturbing. In cases like these, I think the mirror is unusually reflective of our subconscious mental state at the time.
I've also used a mirror as a portal; so what omcasey and Nameless said about the rabbit-hole, YES! Both metaphorically and literally, lol!
To this day I never seen my own image in a mirror. In a few of my experiences through the years I have very briefly seen a reflection in a window or shiny surface. But those have been very faint, like you say EV "ghostly images".

In a few of my Phases soak sessions I have attempted to look into my mirror in my bathroom. The mirror is quite big, encompassing an area of a 3ft high by 6 feet long. So, it's very hard to miss.

Today's attempt seemed to mirror, pardon the pun, my other experiences with my mirror. I didn't initially set out to look in it or even have a RTZ experiences, but as we often see in the NPR you can want one thing and you normally get another.

So, I began my session with my imagery based "Healing Mantra". I then found that my body was buzzing. So, I saw that this was going to be more of a "tactile" experience. Right away I began working with this "etheric energy " buzzing. I aligned it to the tempo of my breathing. I then worked on expanding and retracting it. All of this enhanced the sensation until a visual of my bathroom appeared. At first I just became  aware of the tiles in my vicinity. I then began looking up the wall, at the corners and edges. This began to ground me and now everything became vivid. I thought of standing and I did, I looked at where the mirror normally is. (it's very hard to miss) Standing in my bathtub the mirror faces right at me. I didn't see a mirror though, I saw some sort of hallway with incredible depth to it. I couldn't see the end of it.

Entering into this area I found it to be some kind of really unique and antique library. There seemed to be books. But they had strange casings on them. Some of them were so old they actually had grow  on them. It kind of resembled thick moss or some kind of mold. I explored this area for awhile then decided to end my session.

Every time I have attempted to look in a mirror I have seen some kind of "entrance" or portal. There isn't spinning colors like there is in many of my tunnel like experiences. It's like I have just walked into another room in the home. I don't see my feet move nor do I see a body part/appendage of my own. I normally just see some sort hallway with tremendous depth to it. I do experience this area with depth many times when I do my Phase soak session. When I was just new to this practice, the one thing that I was taught is "depth perception" and also how to navigate the areas I find myself in.
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla

Nameless

Thanks EV and Lu for expanding on that as it seems I may have freaked GR out a bit. Sorry hon, but I feel strongly that you can handle it. :-)

Like both have said mirrors can be very revealing, disturbing, challenging. My own experiences regarding mirrors have often left me shaking my head and no two have ever been the same. But freaking out a little is good, it shows a bit of excitement which often helps with our experiences. My best advice with mirrors above all else is to try and keep your composure while you're 'in' the experience. Feel free to freak out afterwards. LOL

And um, we are being both literal and metaphorical. You'll have to go with your gut and ask questions later it seems. The rabbit hole is full of mystery.


LightBeam

I have seen my reflection a few times. One time I saw the me version like I am in this reality but I wanted to see if mental body alterations will work. Well, they did instantly, I had a little too much fun with it, made by boobs bigger lol, eye color purple, long lashes, long legs haha, it was really fun. During another AP, I was walking alongside a street with many shops. I saw my reflection in one of the windows as I was passing by. To my surprise I saw myself as a young black girl, very pretty, but at the same time I knew who I was in this reality, so as you can imagine that was very spooky.
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

Nameless

Omg, LightBeam that's funny and just like you! LOL

Most of the time I just assume I look however I'm supposed to for the part.

Lumaza

Quote from: Nameless on July 17, 2020, 04:35:06
Omg, LightBeam that's funny and just like you! LOL

Most of the time I just assume I look however I'm supposed to for the part.
That mirror sounds like it's one of those really bizarre mirrors that are found in a Funhouse!  :-D

QuoteDuring another AP, I was walking alongside a street with many shops. I saw my reflection in one of the windows as I was passing by.

Lightbeam, that's the way I get to see myself as well. But I don't really focus on it. It just appears in my peripheral vision. It's normally just a reflection in some window. Often that window is encountered while walking in some City, while walking by all of the shops there.
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla

GrumpyRabbit

Thank you for this great insight, everyone! I will try not to fret too much about all the "through the looking glass" stuff =) Just excited to get back out there and see where everything goes...