Question about hypnagogic imagery

[Greytraveller]

Gruapel -
those hypnogogic images are the beginning of dream images. They begin under closed eyelids. At first they are only a series of lights and shapes. As we near sleep the subconscious mind exerts greater influence and organizes those images into coherent pictures and eventually into dream story form.
If you are having trouble seeing hypnangogic images then you may be a poor visualizer. Yet all that is required is practice. It's a lot like keeping a dream journal to improve memory recall of dreams. Same idea. Practice watching for close eye visuals during meditation and that visualization will occur more often.

[Graupel]

So looking at the black void with enough concentration to stay awake and focused will eventually bring about the hypnagogic images?

Is it unusual for hypnagogic images to appear after a few hours of relaxing and drifting off to sleep (but still focusing on the black void waiting for patterns to appear).. or do the first signs occur usually 30-40 minutes after closing your eyes?

[Terry B]

If youcan manage to stay awake and not fall into a dream or lose conciousness you will see the hypnogogic image. Usually it doesn't take that long, depending on your condition at that time. As for a few hour relaxing and drifting, I don't kow as I usually just fall asleep at that point.

Greytraveller, why do we need to be a good visualizer to see the image? We're waiting the image come and not creating one.

[Ryan]

Hypnagogic imagery in my experience can appear as soon as 2-3 minutes after laying down and relaxing. Also I have noticed that I tend to "forget" that the hypnagogic images were ever there, much like forgetting a projection. I noticed this when I began listening for hypnagogic guitar sounds that I would memorize and reproduce. Often if I didnt repeat the sounds over and over as I got up to record them they would vanish from memory completely, leaving me with just a vague idea that I had maybe heard them. It was the same when I used to try and draw the images that appeared, if I didnt do so immediately they would often (not always) vanish from memory. Weird stuff : )

[Greytraveller]

Graupel
Hypnagogic images can appear at any time during relaxation or meditation. They are more likely to appear the closer you get to sleep.

TerryB
You are correct. You do not need to be a good visualizer to see hypnagogic visuals. It does help. It also helps to be patient because those images may not appear until you nearly fall asleep.

Ryan
Memorizing sounds and images can be good for creativity. But it usually makes it more difficult to project. Any active mental activity makes projection harder.

[MosesB]

I do that all of the time .Its a strange feeling kind of like a TV going on at a random channel and or volume in your mind.I get it at least twice when i try to but its only an instint .

[Graupel]

For a normal sleeper, do hypnagogic images during this onset of sleep usually occur after the person has "zonked" out and lost conscious thought.. thus not realizing or remembering it?

I have never witnessed hypnagogic images.. usually I would just loose conscious thought and then immediately enter a dream.

Should the hypnagogic state occur usually within a few hours of focused wake induced sleep?  I'm trying some WILD (wake induced lucid dream) techniques to get to this focus state, but so far I have not seen any hypnagogic images that I am aware of.