QUESTIONS FROM A NEWBIE!!!

[BillionNamesofGod]

Oh really... can we think of nothing better to do than make fun of people's user names?  And while I'm at it, I just have to respond to this:

Well, the only reply was about alias names! I don't see you volunteering
to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!
Rather than go off topic entirely, why not try to help us newbies?  I think the only people who get it are Frank and the great Robert Monroe! Please someone come forward with non numeric descriptions oh phasing levels for newbies please....

Not a good idea to divert the thread to religion - you know it's not worth going there - this entire earth history and wars is based on religious beliefs... I prefer to respect other's religious beliefs -but then I'm probably one of the 0.000000001 % of people in the world that are able to. It's a non starter - honestly. Everyone has their religious beliefs and you aren't going to change anyone mind about thier regligious beliefs - best to respect people's religious beliefs.


Back on topic  - to phasing into for newbies.

Think of it, what if you tried to express complex mathematics in words instead of symbols? How would you describe "pi," for example? The Focus numbers are just symbols for much more complex things. See what I mean?

QED.

the best way to describe a fractional number is with an *alias*...

hmmm....   like     " PI " !!  Just like you did.  You didn't write some numbe did you? People know exactly what you mean when you say " PI " -it's well defined. That's what we need for phasing - we don't have it.  

You see mathemnatics is full of words to represent numbers - it works, it's called alegbra or variables.

Now let's apply some good variables to describe phasing levels.

Remember this is for *newbies*. (note the title of the thread)

If I sound arrogant - I'm sorry, I'm amazed no-one here can describe phasing levels in sensible english for newbies.

I mean how can us newbies join frank's phasing club if we don't know what the h*ll is going on most of the time? - I mean it sounds fascinating and all, but pointless if newbies don't get it.  Even if frank does write his book I'm sure it'll make no sense to newbies.   What frank or someone needs to do is be more concise and accurate and define things properly, with a solid  foundation.  I don't class my self as a newbie, but I still don't know what the hells going on in phasing topics. Need to keep things simple for newbies.  At least I knew where I stood with mystical approach - every uses the same terminology - this is what phasing needs.

Anyone up for the challege?  

(Frank: if you reply please not a giant essay please I'm confused enough!)

[Ben K]

People, people.

I am not debating the hotness of latina girls in the least. In fact there are many attractive latinas. Like J-Lo. What I AM debating is the choice to use said name at a forum devoted to "Astral Projection". While said name might be a common one at say, a video game message board or a drug message board, I find it odd that someone registered using said nick name.

The reason I find this odd is simple. When choosing a nick name, there are a couple common through processes that take place among humans. We might use our real name, we might use a name that has to do with a cartoon character. We might use our mothers name.

Not once have I seen a name on the internet so out of place as "LatinasAreCute" on the Astral Pulse message board. I find humor in this fact.

And yes, I can pass judgement on christianity. it is a stupid idea used to control people and has no place in todays society. Bottom line. God is a stupid idea. Christianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.

[Heather B.]

I don't see you volunteering to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!

I'm still a newbie too, and I learned by reading the phasing posts on the Astral FAQ, especially this one.  I don't see a need to repeat what's there.  I thought you were talking about the way it uses numbers to label the different parts of the model--my answer was that it's a lot easier to use numbers than words to label them, because using words would get out of hand and be much more confusing.

In order to find out what the labels refer to, you just have to read, read, read, experience, experience, experience.  I agree, it is difficult, and there is no fast, easy way to learn the model.  It takes essays to describe it.  That's why I spend 99% of my time on the forums reading and studying and reviewing.  It's as good as being back in grad school--of course, I loved being in grad school.  

Also keep in mind that you don't have to know or agree with the model in order to phase.  I phased before I even knew what phasing was.  The model is just a description of what people have found when they phase.  If you haven't phased before, then you can also find plenty posts on how to get started (especially the noticing exercise, which is also described in that post I linked above).  I know you're probably sick to death of hearing it, but read the Astral FAQ and the Astral Permanent topics.  One read-through probably won't be enough.

Christianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.

All I'm saying is that there are always exceptions--is that so hard to believe?  I don't fit with your opinion of Christianity, in that I definitely do have spiritual values, and I have zero tolerance for stupid constructs and ideas.  And I'm not the first or only one, believe it or not.


ANYWAY... Sorry guys, I thought I was being helpful, but apparently not.  And OK, the Christianity thing was just me feeling miffed at being lumped in with what I consider an overly broad and injust stereotype.  I'm sorry for that too, but what can I say, I was just in the right mood.  And these days, I tend not to bother with censoring myself.  Chalk it up to old age, "girl problems," or whatever you will.

[BillionNamesofGod]

Honestly, skip the religion stuff, it's not worth debating - learn to respect other people religious beliefs, this is not the place to start a slanging over some as basic as  Christian vs Athiest - honestly I expected some more intelligent discussion.  All we are getting here is what type of chicks are cool, and centuries old religious haggling - can we get over it?

I don't see you volunteering to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!

In order to find out what the labels refer to, you just have to read, read, read, experience, experience, experience.  I agree, it is difficult, and there is no fast, easy way to learn the model.  It takes essays to describe it.  That's why I spend 99% of my time on the forums reading and studying and reviewing.  It's as good as being back in grad school--of course, I loved being in grad school.  

Christianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.

All I'm saying is that there are always exceptions--is that so hard to believe?  I don't fit with your opinion of Christianity, <snip>

Great then, very helpful, thanks!  A sign of education is being able to teach others. (habits of successful people - steven covey)

It's like me saying have you read this book, and you say yes.
Then I say, can you give me a summary?

And you say,  no!  And tell me to go away and spent my entire life reading tonnes of frankly (sorry about the pun) not very well written long winded faqs etc.

Great answer then - spend 99% on these forum, or was that not really an answer at all! What the h*ll do you think w'eve been doing?



So, no one prepared to even summarise each phase level, with a few paragraphs? - so clearly this is impossible stuff for newbies.

It can be done.

[David Warner]

Ben K,

Just because you sit behind a computer screen with your thoughts, beliefs, ideas and preference doesn't make you the captain of the ship to tell others what nickname they can or can't use. Along with the comment about people's belief structure and Christianity. I attend church, I do follow God and Christ - does that make me a bad person no? I support AMM and  BNOG for coming forward on this.

Using a name like "LatinasAreCute" is original as "Ben K" and they both don't have nothing to do with a metaphysical name linked to astral projection. Just like Frank, Adrian, etc... Why don't you dish on them and see how far your respect is earned.

In all honestly,  I prefer the old method "Astral Projection" then phasing. I understand the concept between the different focus levels, but this doesn't make me right or wrong. Its all in beliefs, preferences, and how WE all can come together to make a difference. This whole forum is suppose to be a learning experience, helping each other on their paths and digging at the truth about this reality.

Next time, think before you write.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Billion Names of God, and all:

OK, let's try this once more, slowly, since it seems I'm not making myself clear.

First, I didn't say you had to devote your entire life to reading the forums (I spend maybe a few hours a day at most).  I also didn't say that my religion is the only right one, I was arguing against judging entire groups of people.  I may not understand other religions, or atheism, but you would never hear me saying they're stupid, or that their followers are all idiots.

I did tell you I'm new at phasing too, and I told you what I did to learn.  It worked well for me--book-learning is my strength.  If you've already read everything by Frank, or others, and still need help, then I apologize.  I've just gotten jaded by people always wanting me to do their learning for them and serve it up neatly on a platter--I get it all the time, especially at work, but in most other areas of my life.    

As my "penance," I'll summarize it the best way I can, though I'm probably not going to make much better sense of it, and though I am very far from being an expert.

Focus 1 (F1)---the physical world.  Our "primary" focus of consciousness while we're "alive" on Earth.

Focus 2 (F2)---our individual "unconscious" mind.  Where imagination, daydreaming, dreaming, etc. take place.  In this focus our "environment" responds to our own thoughts, desires, wishes, and fears.  What has traditionally been called "the astral" exists in F2.

Focus z (Fz)---the "3-d blackness" or "void" that exists on the border of F2 and F3.

Focus 3 (F3)---the "transition area" where we go once we "die."  Includes various afterlife "scenarios" created by various cultures, religions, etc.  Heavens, hells, all that jazz.  The "higher" realms, however, are free of any belief-system influence, and this is where the real "transition" occurs... we evolve more into pure spirits, lose all "form" such as bodies.

Focus 4 (F4)---where we exist as pure consciousness, with no form.  As I understand it, this is sort of like the "nervous system" of everything.  All our consciousnesses are entertwined, it's more communal, less individual.  I think this area requires much more exploration.

So, there we have it.  Anyone who feels like tearing it to shreds can post their own bloody summary.

[David Warner]

AMM,

Try being in the field of Tech Support Analyst and having a certain friend that "think" they know it all about computers, but they still come to you asking for novice and high leveled problems. After awhile, ya just want to scream!

Anyways, my point is that no one can know everything and assume that they do - like the comment about religion from Ben K. We are all still learning and barely scrapped the surface of astral projection.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Thanks, TVOS.  

Yikes, tech support.  I can only imagine.  And why do library patrons get soooo upset when you hand them books?!

They actually expected me to read for them--while I was the only reference staff on hand, the phones were ringing, I was eye-deep in complex research for others, people were calling me over to fix the computers they'd crashed, AND I had to chase down errant children whose parents thought I was their personal nanny.  

I never quite screamed, though I occasionally spoke very sharply.  Fortunately, I'm a cataloger now and never have to see patrons.  I earned my stripes, though. *sigh*

But yeah---people aren't going to drop their belief structures overnight.  Right now, I don't see why religion and metaphysics can't coexist and complement each other.  If my astral experiences change that, then great.  If not, fine.  Who does it hurt?

As for more traditional projection and phasing... they get you to the same "destinations", don't they?  I'm just the opposite of you... I tried for years to get out of body the "old way."  It just frustrated me and I threw up my hands.  I truly think it has to do with whether a person is naturally "extroverted" or "introverted."  It's second nature for me to "fall inside" myself, but murder for me to "go outside."

[Ben K]

Ben K,

Just because you sit behind a computer screen with your thoughts, beliefs, ideas and preference doesn't make you the captain of the ship to tell others what nickname they can or can't use. Along with the comment about people's belief structure and Christianity. I attend church, I do follow God and Christ - does that make me a bad person no? I support AMM and  BNOG for coming forward on this.

When did i try to tell him what nickname to use? And i dont care about your psuedo-christian beliefs, im referring to actual christians who go to church and believe that there is a man in the sky watching over them.

Using a name like "LatinasAreCute" is original as "Ben K" and they both don't have nothing to do with a metaphysical name linked to astral projection. Just like Frank, Adrian, etc... Why don't you dish on them and see how far your respect is earned.

Actually, Ben K is my actual name, so it would be a logical choice for a nick name on a forum. And im not looking for anyones respect.

In all honestly,  I prefer the old method "Astral Projection" then phasing. I understand the concept between the different focus levels, but this doesn't make me right or wrong. Its all in beliefs, preferences, and how WE all can come together to make a difference. This whole forum is suppose to be a learning experience, helping each other on their paths and digging at the truth about this reality.

Next time, think before you write.

Tvos

Astral Projection is just another method of phasing. "Phasing" refers to the "switch" you make from physical to non physical. Astral Projection is basically phasing with extra unneccessery crap on the side.

Im not trying to be rude, just honest.

[mactombs]

I was eye-deep in complex research for others

Ooh. Maybe someday instead of a public library, you'll be in a rare book store and it'll be like the 9th Gate or something. It seems like researchers into old rare books always have exciting things happen to them. Research is really cool, though. Google is great and all, but it's not like being in some remote, dark corner of a library pulling dusty old volumes out of a top shelf ...

Astral Projection is basically phasing with extra unneccessery crap on the side.

I'm not sure it is unnecessary. It's hard to say what is necessary and what is not for one individual over another. Maybe for one person deep physical relaxation isn't necessary (or maybe they don't realize how easily they've come to deeply relax or forgotten how they got there). Sometimes I suspect that Frank's phasing methods are too simplified, maybe it discounts all the steps that it takes to get where the process is that streamlined.

To each his own.

[David Warner]

I think and feel what ever gets that person to the other side - phasing, the mechanics of the astral projection Go For It!  Everyone is different and not everyone can put themselves into a trance state within 5-10mins or use a rope technique, phase.. We all learn differently and it boils down to "just getting" there.  Isn't that hard enough!

I do have to agree with Mactombs on this one. How would we truly know what is needed and missed along the way. A good analogy would be with Mp3's. This technology has dominated the world. We can fit more on a cd, sd media, ipod of music. Compress the audio signal from a .wav to .mp3 so it can be easily transferred via Internet. It saves space and the quality is amazing. But if you listen to  .wav file against a 320kbps mp3 you will hear a slight difference in quality. So its possible with phasing, if using the same analogy as Ben K said, the unnecessary crap is removed - you truly might be losing "quality" from the phasing or parts of the experience to make you whole.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Ooh. Maybe someday instead of a public library, you'll be in a rare book store and it'll be like the 9th Gate or something. It seems like researchers into old rare books always have exciting things happen to them. Research is really cool, though. Google is great and all, but it's not like being in some remote, dark corner of a library pulling dusty old volumes out of a top shelf ...

Happily, I now work at a very fine university library, and I catalog mostly 19th century serials (almanacs, journals, magazines, catalogs, conference proceedings, etc.).  They are very interesting!  I love looking at the almanacs and magazines.  I've also cataloged old documents from various Masonic orders--just mundane type stuff, but still interesting.  You would love the closed stacks in our special collections library--very dark, crowded, and labyrinthine!  I got to go back there to look for something one day, and felt like I was a treasure hunter or something.  Actually, I thought I was never going to make it back out!  

I think and feel what ever gets that person to the other side - phasing, the mechanics of the astral projection Go For It!

I think that's right!  I think the important thing is to find the way that works best for you and be thankful!  I was so discouraged by OBE, but now that I've found phasing, I'm just glad that I've found A way to project!  I am sure that I might be missing out on special experiences that can be had with OBE, but it's just in the same way that there are things you miss out on when you travel by plane as opposed to car, and vice versa.  The important thing is that you leave one place and end up somewhere else, and get to enjoy whichever transportation you can avail yourself of.

[mactombs]

I suppose one could say it has simplified matters, but by trying to boil it down to the essentials of a very complicated phenomenon that is more thorough than anything else out there that I'm aware of.

No, what I mean by too simplified is the process that gets you from C1 to F2. I'm talking pragmatics. I understand Frank's emphasis on not adhering to techniques and so forth ... it's hard to explain.

Let's try this: lie down, get comfortable, just notice. Well, you can be noticing for a long time and not be anywhere close to the colored blobs of F12 other people will notice. F10 is below F12, and F10 is serious relaxation when you think that your body is literally asleep. So, just lying down and getting comfortable for me doesn't even begin to cover it. F10 is a major, major achievement for me, and it is a whole lot more than getting comfortable.

I think for phasing, before engaging all the senses, it is important to be deeply relaxed, as in at an F12 state. For some people that comes naturally, maybe they do just lay down, but for me, getting to a state where I can even think of getting anywhere besides frustrated with myself, I need to learn relaxation first.

I hope this makes sense.

[BillionNamesofGod]

For

"runlola"

and

"Almost Mrs. Murphy"

Thanks very very much for your post oh phasing levels for newbies,
incredibly useful indeed!

Thanks again - really helped a lot, more than all the stuff I've read so far, sometimes it just takes someone to summarise something, and help kick start good research.  That's the goal of a say a Physics Teacher or someone teaching something complex.

Teaching is a skill a very complex skill in it self, even picking the right bits to cut and paste. Gives you an idea how difficult writing a book is. (no wonder frank can't do his book, he's stuck on the basics of explaining phasing probably!!)

Thanks! This is a good start, if anyone else can describe their interpretition of phasing levels, now are really getting somewhere!

[BillionNamesofGod]

Mactombs,

That's true. It's not that easy.

The whole phasing or projection thing is still an art. Perhaps a world of information won't ever be enough to make it fire-proof.

I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to F2 or 12, and basically rely on the sleeping-waking border at night to help me out. Luckily, that works out pretty well for me.

Focus F2:  Mind awake - Body Asleep - MABA

Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness


Can you expand?  Surely getting to MABA is clearly documented?

I really have no idea what you mean by "A state of expanded awareness "

you see you sentence is highly confusing for 90% of people here I'm sure.
Can you attempt to expand?

[mactombs]

I really have no idea what you mean by "A state of expanded awareness "

Honestly, I don't know what it means either. I kind of think it's one of those things that you'll know once you've experienced it and say, "oh, that's a great way to phrase it".

Focus F2: Mind awake - Body Asleep - MABA

Actually, MABA is F10. It's Monroe's. He says himself he doesn't know why they called it F10. It is kind of confusing, but it grows on you.

The whole phasing or projection thing is still an art. Perhaps a world of information won't ever be enough to make it fire-proof.

That is true, Major Tom. An experience is worth 100,000 words. There's a lot of experimentation you have to be willing to take on, and you have to be willing to let go of adhering to what other people say and just jump in.

[BillionNamesofGod]

Can you expand?  Surely getting to MABA is clearly documented?

Hi Billion, here you are:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13644&start=0
Mactombs is correct btw...focus 10 is maba. Read the phasing topics in faq section also, which should answer your questions.

Good luck.

Jesus Christ , I've read that before, and I actually got confused again see what I mean??

Honestly !

Mactombs,
I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to F2 or 12, and basically rely on the sleeping-waking border at night to help me out. Luckily, that works out pretty well for me.

Jesus, why not just say:-

" I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to the Astral Plane  or  an expanded state of conciousness.  "


At least that way newbies, don't have look up numbers...

OK, I get the Astral Plan bit, that's well documented but what is this:

" an expanded state of conciousness"  


I wish some more people would come out and also admit they don't really understand 50%+ of phasing talk.   Never had this problem with occult/mystical labels -they just make sense.


what about a visual diagram? anyone up for that? like a mind-map?

(I love mind maps)

I've read the faqs etc,  I need some mnemonic !!  If was sitting a exam on phasing talk I would fail miserably.
I mean I know I'd pass one about mystical occult names - I mean, they are real easy to grasp.

[thankful]

I admit, I am also having a hard time with the phasing terminology, things like F10 sound so generic to me and hard to figure out, though I am trying to figure it out.

M

[Heather B.]

Billion Names of God and all:

Good, I'm glad I finally got at what you wanted to know.  I think we just kept misunderstanding each other.  

Regarding MABA, I don't know about documentation, but what I do to start is lie still on my back.  This is not my usual sleeping posture but I still get as comfortable as possible... I usually have to roll up my pillow beneath my neck in order to ease tension there.  I will often have to massage my face, head, and neck, and rub my eyes to work out as much tension there as I can.  

Even if I'm not perfectly "relaxed," I just breathe deeply, close my eyes, and "watch" the backs of my eyelids.  Sometimes I'll begin seeing hypnogogic imagery within minutes, and once that happens, I start "losing contact" with my body and "retreat" into my head.  

However, there are sometimes problems, the most common of which is disengaging the physical eyes so that they don't open or try to focus on the images or move around.  When that happens, I do a little exercise described here (start wtih the second paragraph).

After I've been in MABA for a little while, I will usually fall into what I suppose is the state of expanded awareness.  I'll try to explain what that is like for me.  For one thing, it is a very noticable change.  You feel it "wash over you."  I say that because to me it usually feels like a wave, and my mind does this undulating sort of "motion."  It's very distinct, but really quite pleasant!  

Once the "wave" goes by, I become more aware than before that I'm totally in my mind, and can't sense my body at all.  It feels like I am in a much "wider" space.  It's like driving out of a forest and finding yourself on a mountain top, with nothing but huge sky around you.    It really does almost make you say, "WOW, I've entered a state of expanded awareness"!  I guess that's where the label came from.  But I agree that it's not much help to just read that description.

At this point, the rather amorphous hypnogogic imagery is replaced by much more distinct forms.  Usually fuzzy, but I can still make out geometric shapes, human shapes, building shapes, tree shapes, etc.  And every so often, I'll catch quick snatches of very sharp, vivid images.  This phenomenon, called "clicks" by another user, is discussed a bit here.

Getting to the "clicks" is about as far as I've gotten so far.  I've been practicing for about 2 months at consciously initiating phasing.  And sometimes I get pretty far, and sometimes I don't.  Within maybe the last couple of weeks, I've gotten to where I can "hold on" to the clicks for longer.  I think that is the key to phasing.  Eventually, I will be able to "phase into" or immerse myself in whatever I'm seeing, hearing, feeling.

Well, I hope that helps some.  Again, these are just my experiences, things may go differently for others, and others may have a harder or easier time of it.  But I think I mentioned that I had absolutely no luck with more "traditional" OBE projection.  And I tried for years!  Just don't get discouraged.  I believe that we will each find our own way, our own "means of transportation" to get to the astral.

Good luck y'all!  

PS.  If you'd like to read about some "spontaneous" projection experiences I've had, I posted a little list here, for another user.

[BillionNamesofGod]

Thanks " Almost Mrs. Murphy " that's a fantastic post, you truely have a gift here  - I completely understand everything you wrote!

This clicks stuff is very interesting.

I wonder is a "state of expanded awareness" similar to descriptions of people  in the ASTRAL who an see all around at once, or sense being
at two places at once.  

It's as if the astral or obe  body ( I was about to write phasing body there!) has vision and sense all around in a sphere, and is getting input from all directions at once, and you can choose what input/angle to focus on.!


"clicks"--very brief, random, vivid sensations, while in MABA.

[Heather B.]

It's as if the astral or obe body ( I was about to write phasing body there!) has vision and sense all around in a sphere, and is getting input from all directions at once, and you can choose what input/angle to focus on.!

I have read about what you're describing... Where it's like you can see in 360 degrees.  Sounds cool. I imagine people who phase can do the same thing, though I've not experienced it.  

People who phase have "astral bodies" too, or at least I do.  I can see it and feel it around me. Except for that one crazy experience where I was just a disembodied observer... now that was really bizarre!  I felt so naked!  I still don't really know what that was all about...

From what I've read, I think that any time you project, your mind may create an astral body for you, and that you can change it or get rid of it at will.  I don't think that an astral body is really necessary but I think that having a body is very deeply ingrained in us.  We get in the habit of associating our selves with our bodies, we get used to needing a body in order to interact with our environment... but in the astral world, a body is not important.

I think I'll prefer having a body for the time being.