Reincarnation ...I dont think so!

[Tayesin]

Hi Folks.

Reincarnation. For most people it would be a belief system, and this will apply until you experience enough of your own Spirit's truth to know otherwise.  That is the difference between being in belief system mode and knowing.  Beliefs are a very poor substitute for experience.

I had a good laugh at the idea that it would be a cop out concept too. Thanks for that. This too obviously shows that you are coming from belief system mode and not knowing.  Should you not complete the tasks you set for your Self prior to coming here, as the great souls that you are, you will choose to come back and do it over.  But, the circumstances you choose will always be more difficult than what you have now.  So why would you want to cop out?

This life I have has been blessed with spiritual activity from the age of 7 and I am now 43. It has included experiencing 'oneness' with the universe, which is the defining opening of enlightenment.  I have personally returned to many past lives here and on other worlds, so from experience I can share something with you. Reincarnation is a reality we all share, whether you want to believe it or not. And, it does not matter whether you do believe, it just is.

Also, there is really no such thing as wrong and right choices, not in the absolute sense.  Wrong and right are only conceptual judgements that we have learned to make, and they certainly do not apply to the sum total of our soul's experiences on this world.  Any choice will only alter the direction of your experience opportunity.  And, as the wonderful soul that you are, you already chose all the options and varieties before you chose to incarnate in this life.  They are only contracted possibilities you chose, it's a bit like planning out an overseas holiday!

Accountability. Only you are accountable to you for what you choose to do here. No other soul or entity will chastise you for the choices that you make in life. You set the rules and time schedules in your incarnation, no one else can do that. So there will not be a 'you have been a naughty boy in that life' kind of thing happening once you pass on.

Dogma is part of the old way of doing things, it applied to where we have been but certainly does not apply to where we are all going in this world.  So it really is time to move through the veils of beliefs, time to experience for yourelves and find your truths within you.

As for the 'new age' movement, as a sweeping generalization, you could say that it to has followed the same old paths to dogma.  And that is a shame too.  I find that all the 'new agers' I come across are more interested in paying someone else to tell them what is truth, or paying someone to teach them unimportant things like channeling and soul rescues etc etc, ad nauseum.  This is fishing for the people and not teaching them how to fish for themselves!

For the person who said that reincarnation is against what they where told in the astral.....please remember one important thing.  Always test any information you are given, if you don't you run the risk of making statements that are completely fallible, and being very misled.

That brings me to the end od this post.  So, instead of passing judgements, staying in beliefs system mode, get 'out there' and experience as often as possible for your Self, and then you will come to know the truth.  And that is the only way to do it.

Thank you for the opportunity to share.  Love always.

[Nick]

Tayesin,

That was a great post. What you wrote certainly rings true for me. I have always felt that we are each on our individual paths, accountable to ourselves for our own actions.

Also, your points on dogma and the new age movement are well put as well. I remember a new age type fair in the late 80's where there were so many "hucksters" and people willing to pay. We do need to find our own way.

As to your final point about getting out there and experiencing as often as possible for your 'Self', I couldn't agree more.  []

Very best,

[Mustardseed]

Hi there Teysin well I read your post with interest. Very interesting. I do agree with you in a way. The TRUTH exists no matter what we believe or not. You say reeincarnation exists no matter what I believe or not. The problem with your post (to me ) is that you assume many things about me and pass a judgement on my ability or experience to even challenge your belief.Just like I think you assume lots of other things. Yes I use belief as I view your statements as beliefs wether you count them facts or not. I have had a fair amount of spiritual experiences probably more than most, and have been astrally active since childhood. I do seem to have very different experiences then most as I rarely spend more than few seconds in the Real time enviroment. I have not listened a whole lot to other entities but have tried to see for myself. In this life and this forum you can hear lots of opinions and way out statements I believe the astral is similar. It is possible that these entities souls or whatever you chose to call them are reacting in a similar way, speaking and teaching what they BELIEVE to be true. Just becaurse they only know part of the whole picture does not mean that they are not wise or able to help, however just becourse my mecanic can fix my car I would be a fool to ask him to build my house or fly a airplane! Selah. I I see no difference in me and you exept I am willing to consider Reincarnation becaurse I realise that my knowledge and possible my ability to understand even minor cosmic mysteries may, becaurse of my humanity be limited (or non existing ha). You however seem to think that you have the answer to these things you speak with authority , you have made up your mind as to what the truth IS, you have been one with the whole and so forth. All in all as I call it "you have arrived" and no longer challenge your set beliefs and as such , the way I see it , you have hardened in a belief system in which you are the center the enlightened one . Please do not be offended at these sayings of mine. I sincerly would like to discuss these matters. I have lived many years with Hindus and Buddists and people who believe in reincarnation and for many it is a cop out. Maybe for some it is not. One Bramin I met in India told me that according to Hinduism it is forbidden to help a castless give him food ets as in effect you would be "letting him out of jail" he has to suffer in this life and be patient and if he does maybe he will be reborn in a better life. If that is not a cop out then what is it!!In other words in my view a very selfish belief system condoning the most extreme selfishness.
Regards David

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed
The problem with your post (to me ) is that you assume many things about me and pass a judgement on my ability or experience to even challenge your belief.Just like I think you assume lots of other things.......... You however seem to think that you have the answer to these things you speak with authority , you have made up your mind as to what the truth IS, you have been one with the whole and so forth. All in all as I call it "you have arrived" and no longer challenge your set beliefs and as such , the way I see it , you have hardened in a belief system in which you are the center the enlightened one .

Dear David, no offence taken.[]
I apologize for what seems to have been an assumtion on my part as to your abilites.  There was no intentional direspect to you or your experiences.  I was simply pointing out that by having come to the choices you made about reincarnation, you had as yet, not discovered it's truth for yourself, and you can easily do so if you wish.

I would just like to point out that what I had to offer was from the heart of experience, nothing else.  If I speak with authority, then it is because it was earned and for no other reason.  At this point there can be no 'making up of my mind', and there is certainly no place to 'arrive'.  If we thought that then we would be boxing ourselves in again.  

The wonderful experiences I have had in this life are for specific reasons to do with my tasks here this time.  My beliefs were and always are challenged, in the real world and out of it, it is a constant evolution, and it does not stop unless I choose to stop.  Although, even then I am pushed to continue on the path, as real world time is short to prepare for the tasks ahead.

There is no such thing as an ongoing enlightened state.  I learned that even my long held belief that once you were enlightened you always would be, was a misperception. Enlightenment is not like a trophy, it is not something that you always have.  The initial experience is like an opening, a gateway that we enter, from there it is something that must be worked at and with in every moment so that it is used for greater purpose.  Otherwise we return to mediocrity.

There can be no belief system at this stage, so there can be no hardening into it. There is no growth from a point of stagnation. Here I must say that the astral realm is only one of many, so there is much more to experience beyond it. And authority is something that comes with wider experience outside the box, if that is part of your life's outline.

I do value your challenging my statements because it shows that you are evolving and ready to experience the Soul that you are, not just your astral body. I think you have done wonderfully well and I foresee great things ahead for you. And yes, I do see us as the same, but I see us as Great Spirits, very powerful beings in our own right, not just little souls experiencing life on Earth between astral travels.  Thank You David, it is refreshing to meet others who are very well travelled and who seek experience.

Love always.

[Mustardseed]

Qoute : I would just like to point out that what I had to offer was from the heart of experience, nothing else.  If I speak with authority, then it is because it was earned and for no other reason.  At this point there can be no 'making up of my mind', and there is certainly no place to 'arrive'.  If we thought that then we would be boxing ourselves in again.  There can be no belief system at this stage, so there can be no hardening into it. There is no growth from a point of stagnation. Here I must say that the astral realm is only one of many, so there is much more to experience beyond it. And authority is something that comes with wider experience outside the box, if that is part of your life's outline. End Qoute

Well you see my friend this is to me the core of things . In a way you speak no different than a "saved Born again Christian" he will also say he speaks from experience. He will also say that in order to know ,you have to experience Jesus and his power etc etc in so many words you discribe a world view as seen through your experiences (glasses) and thereby claim that your view ,experience, opinion or whatever you choose to call it is the way things are for the rest of us. It is like the story of the 5 blind men trying to discribe an elephant . Each one touching a different part trunk tail foot side and tooth and each compleately sure that it was like a snake, a rope, a tree, a  wall and a spear. All of them a little bit right and also wrong. Your experience is after all only your experiences and I would say that as souch any claim that, it is the way things are for all is at the most subjective and at the worst biased . It is this subjectivity and this stagnant attitude that I find suffocating in Churches and new age circles and this forum at times. There is a famous qoute from Franz of Assissi or the part portrayed in the movie Brother Sun .  "Words only words there was a time when I believed in words"   I must compliment you though for your civility and patience in answering me, but find it difficult to relate to you as an equal as it seems to me you come across a bit.....cant find the word but it sort of smug. I call it "arrived" though I realise you yourself do not see yourself this way. Itis similar to talking to a lot of preachers. Its like they look at me with such "love" and "patience" while they sweetly attempt to guide me. Its a sort of suggary kind of love that makes me feel quite small but maybe that says more about me and my problems than you and them Ha.(I seem to be at a low point now but I am fighting!!!)
Anyway I believe that whatever people choose to adopt as their world view is like a train that they jump  on in a way, it rolls right along and takes them places. Many religions and filosofies are helpfull and true in part but I thínk that we should all be careful if we sit bach and relax too much thinking that we are for sure on the right train. In the beginning we all looked very well at the destination and kept an eye on the stations that was passing making sure we we on the right one taking us to LOVE KINDNESS FAITH HOPE but many folks have fallen asleep on trains only to wake up in a place the did not intend to go. Such as Dogmatic Ville, Selfcentered City or even Religious Fanatisism Metropolis. Pardon my poor way of explaining, I have a strange sense of humor I think.. Thanks for your posts I am on the train that says "Reincarnation...I don´t think so" I will stay here and see where it leads me, keeping a good lookout and who knows maybe there will be a change in the future we will see.
Kindly David  

[Tayesin]

David, well said. I do like the way you can express yourself, I wish that I wasn't so stuck in wordage, and more able to say what I mean.  I am sorry if i come across all preacher-like. I will try to work on that. Enjoy the train ride.
Love always.

[beavis]

I remember being in a different body, I think a baby. My mother was crying because I kept leaving the body. When I got about 100 feet from it, I went back in for her. I got bored and did this about 10 times in a few minutes. I think I decided to stay in it for a while longer, but dont know what happened after that. I dont know what planet or time this happened at.

[LogoRat]

Here is another though!

Maybe there is like this:

You live your physical life as a person who is kept blinded to the fact that you have more experience after your physical life.
And then he dies, he goes up to "heaven" or whatever that is and he is there for a very long time.

And after a while he kinda feel that "this is nice, but i want something to bite in and have some challenge for myself".
Like a game, he jumps into a new suit and begins a new physical life.
In this life he is another person, but within himself(intuition) he feels who he are from the core of his beeing.

He lives this life like the other, not knowing anything about spirituality, and only reads about people who are stupid and crazy to belive they have another life after the physical.
He still belives that everything turns black and he is not more after he dies.

Then he dies and gets up to "heaven" again, and boom he recognice himself again, and suddenly he feel that.. "hey i wasnt done yet" and jumps down again.
And he get so sucked up in the feeling that physical life is where the action and fun is.

after some lifetimes he understand that "hey, there is something more about reality than this physical life" because now he has had so many lifes that he begin to recognice, like you do when you suddenly can remember your dreams clearly and focused.

Then he study and practice Lucid Dreaming and get very exited about it an understand that there really is more than physical experience.
And then he jumps onto OBE's and really understand that there is not just the Physical, and there is not even just physical and heaven, there is more than that, more dimensions, eternity.
He understand now, and when he dies he remember when he get to "heaven" that he can experience other things than this heaven that he at so many many times have jumped away from to experience new things. And instead of going into a new physical form he move beyond "heaven".

There may also be that this person may not have come to the real heaven, only the heaven that he believe is heaven, maybe he doesnt know what heaven is.

There may also be that several souls get stuck in a recycle.
Some form of jumping out of the physical and then get to a place that is nice for like 10 "years" and then he dont have anything todo to satisfy himself, and jumps down into the physical suit.
and again and again and again.

And everytime he gets down to the physical, he never really grasp the whole picture because everytime he is in a new physical suit he gets so programmed by people and controlling machines around him that there is no such thing as an afterlife.
Everytime he gets programmed to think like that.

And never ever realize that there is more than this recycle.
In his physical he doesnt belivie in afterlife and in afterlife he only see the physical life as the playground and growth for the soul.

[Mustardseed]

I have been thinking a lot about it, and I believe I am making up my mind that Re incarnation is a false. !! it seems to me that it does not make as much sense as most folks would like it to. In a wierd way it feels like a very convinient belief system giving people a good excuse to behave any which way they want. !! In other words, a sort of fatalism that if I do not make it on this try I will make it in the next. It contradicts the notion of Free will in my way of thinking at least. If there is free will then there is also accountability, but most people would prefer religion to be of the "the buffet style", so they can take what they want and leave and maybe come back later and have something else. It seems to be too convinient and very much like the Christian bad excuse that Jesus always forgives. This Christian dogma which in a way is true ofcause has for the longest time held people back from exploring their true potential. It is  contradiction to nature . !! In nature free will can only be understood in the light of a wrong and right choice. Its like you only understand wrong in contrast with right. Do the wrong thing and you suffer the consequenses. I realise that there are many cases where people have past memmories but they could be departed spirits mentally projecting their own memories making people think it is their own. I do believe that at times people could and might be given another chance at life especially kids seem to have that happen but the endless life and rebirth death and rebirth seems illogical to me. My problem is that very few want to discuss it without reverting to past dogma. It is as if most New Age folks incl some here are afraid to consider the possibility that this might be the only chance they have. Like someone said Life has no rehersal. Seems that it is also contradicted by global warming etc etc.
What do you all think.
Regards Mustardseed