Scientific instruments, and technology in the the astral?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Hi everyone, OK so I was wondering can one make scientific instruments in all, some, or no astral planes. I have heard of there being a machine in the astral.

Even if it's something very easy like tools. Obviously it would have to be sold and predictable to a good degree. Like what about a magnifying glass, telescope, or thermometer, telecommunications like CB's, TV and so on. Or is there any such thing as surgery? Obviously anything like that in those realms will be much different than our technology here in some ways. I also remember that someone saw a movie with others in the astral and it was like HD on steroids. Anyway can you'll expand on this a bit. One would need an environment that is stable so the lower astral is probably not a good place for instruments and tools IDK. Thanks.

Love and light.

[Xanth]

You're thinking is too "physical".

Anything Physical you can think of doesn't even objectively exist, especially not in the non-physical.

You kind of have the wrong idea of what the non-physical is.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

You're thinking is too "physical".

Anything Physical you can think of doesn't even objectively exist, especially not in the non-physical.

You kind of have the wrong idea of what the non-physical is.

What about the machines I have heard about, like the HD TV?

[Xanth]

What about the machines I have heard about, like the HD TV?

Whatever it was that someone described to you or you read about... is their interpretation of whatever it was they experienced.  It's not anything objective.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Whatever it was that someone described to you or you read about... is their interpretation of whatever it was they experienced.  It's not anything objective.

If that is the case then there is no difference between astral projection and dreaming. What are you talking about. The astral is not objective. That would mean that if you saw a long dead relative that they would not be real. Please explain further.

[Bedeekin]

A machine in the nonphysical is just a construct... a subjective useless object. As are material things in this reality. Possessions and things are meaningless to the growth of and evolution of your quality of consciousness. In the nonphysical reality this is even more so... in that they are purely subjective crap.

You are talking about things... not entities.

HD TV in the nonphysical?

Think about it... what channel would it pick up? Do you envisage a TV company in the nonphysical that employs technicians and cameramen? What is the point of a TV in the nonphysical, where you could take it a step further and be involved in what is being shown on the TV?

There is hardly ANY difference between AP and dreaming. You are in the same 'place' for want of a better word... but just experiencing it in a different level of awareness and intent. So you were actually right there.

A long dead relative is NOT a wide screen HD TV. A person is real... an object isn't. You must be able to see the difference.

[ChopstickFox]

In the nonphysical reality this is even more so... in that they are purely subjective crap.

This is the technical term, by the way. Subjective crap.

[todd421757]

If that is the case then there is no difference between astral projection and dreaming. What are you talking about. The astral is not objective. That would mean that if you saw a long dead relative that they would not be real. Please explain further.

IBE (inner body experience) is subjective. Examples would include dreaming, astral projecting, meditation, hypnosis. The nonphysical in these three projections is subjective. This is what the Tom Campbell and Seth books deal with.

OBE (out of body experience is objective). Examples would include mindsplit OBE and etheric projection. The nonphysical in these two projections is objective as long as no random mind chatter or random visualizations are involved with the projection.

I had a mindsplit OBE recently that completely made me experience an objective projection.

[desert-rat]

This may be going in a slightly different direction , Tesla could visualize a machine in his head , just let run and see what it would do , how it would work and how he might might make it work better . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Tesla    He may of been creating his machines in the astral with  , or with  out knowing it .  desert rat 

[Xanth]

IBE (inner body experience) is subjective. Examples would include dreaming, astral projecting, meditation, hypnosis. The nonphysical in these three projections is subjective. This is what the Tom Campbell and Seth books deal with.

OBE (out of body experience is objective). Examples would include mindsplit OBE and etheric projection. The nonphysical in these two projections is objective as long as no random mind chatter or random visualizations are involved with the projection.

I had a mindsplit OBE recently that completely made me experience an objective projection.

One day you'll realize there's no separation between your two categories.

Hell, there's not even a separation between this physical reality and the non-physical.
This physical reality *IS* a non-physical reality.  LoL

[todd421757]

*sigh*

One day you'll realize there's no separation between your two categories.

Hell, there's not even a separation between this physical reality and the non-physical.
This physical reality *IS* a non-physical reality.  LoL

Xanth,

Please don't comment on any of my posts anymore. I am tired of wasting time defending my statements to you.

[Szaxx]

'
Where's this going?
A bad day perhaps?

[Dreamshards]

Trying to accuse people that their experiences must not be real but yours are is just silly.  I also like desert rats idea that intelligent machines that might occur a break through in science and our reality could initially be created on the astral. I have had other inspirations occur while having an OBE that i remembered after waking up. A machine would be a little more difficult to replicate since the laws and limitations are different in the astral but it could be a start.

[todd421757]

'
Where's this going?
A bad day perhaps?

It's just an endless loop. Someone asks a good question, then a moderator tries to make it too simple and say its all the same experience and its all subjective. And they reference a Tom Campbell book or video.

[Xanth]

Xanth,

Please don't comment on any of my posts anymore. I am tired of wasting time defending my statements to you.

If there's a post which I feel I can contribute to it, I *WILL* contribute to it.

It's too bad that *you* feel uncomfortable with that... but realize, that's your problem and not mine.  I refuse to be held hostage to yours (or anyone elses) emotions.

I will apologize and remove the *sigh*... that was a bit unacceptable.  But the rest is my experience... just as what you post is your opinion.  And you're 100% free to make your opinions known, just as I'm 100% free to share mine.

Trying to accuse people that their experiences must not be real but yours are is just silly.  I also like desert rats idea that intelligent machines that might occur a break through in science and our reality could initially be created on the astral. I have had other inspirations occur while having an OBE that i remembered after waking up. A machine would be a little more difficult to replicate since the laws and limitations are different in the astral but it could be a start.

Dreamshards, quite to the contrary.  Nobody is calling anyone's experiences silly.  If you read closely, most of us are saying that all the experiences are real... what differs is the limiting labels people like to give them.

Some of us are trying to open the minds of others a bit more than some people would seem to like.  The usage of "labels", for example, is quite the limiting factor in non-physical explorations.

It's just an endless loop. Someone asks a good question, then a moderator tries to make it too simple and say its all the same experience and its all subjective. And they reference a Tom Campbell book or video.

Here's my perspective on it:
Someone asks an interesting question... everyone gives their particular perspective/view on it. 

But I'll make one thing perfectly clear... you have no right what-so-ever to request that someone doesn't respond to you on a public forum. 
I'd suggest if you don't like everyone being able to respond to you, you either stick to PMs with people, or simply don't post.  That's your choice.  But to suggest that someone isn't to post because you're uncomfortable with their responses... now THAT is silly and quite rude.

And we quote Tom and others here because, quite frankly, why would you want to re-invent the wheel?  If something they've said resonates better than what we could say... why wouldn't we link it? 

[Szaxx]

A dilemma easily solved. In anything subjective a difference of opinion WILL arise. In the spirit of such things the best course of action is to seek advice from an elder. Today however the job of the elders is almost gone. The spiritual leaders are placing their knowledge on YouTube and the likelyhood of books. Their knowledge is again from their perspective and having decades of teachings on this subject only a fool would throw away that given.
On occasion a loop does appear and can be misinterpreted easily by an addition or omission of a single word.
Its in all our interests to be able to communicate sensibly.
Spam and offensive material is removed per se.
A difference of opinion based on that percieved is natural too.
In previous posts an agreement to disagree resolved the issue until further enlightenment of said issue comes to pass.
My view on this interesting topic is you can build items of immense power if you're required to. Also you can get information on things that are primarily based on PHYSICAL world technology. Your memory of it is the key.
Its one T-shirt I've worn on both sides of conciousness. 1979 being the first.
Respect to all.

[catmeow]

IBE (inner body experience) is subjective. Examples would include dreaming, astral projecting, meditation, hypnosis. The nonphysical in these three projections is subjective. This is what the Tom Campbell and Seth books deal with.

OBE (out of body experience is objective). Examples would include mindsplit OBE and etheric projection. The nonphysical in these two projections is objective as long as no random mind chatter or random visualizations are involved with the projection.

I had a mindsplit OBE recently that completely made me experience an objective projection.

Interesting post as always todd. Thanks for the information. I'm still trying to figure this topic out, after many years. And TC certainly isn't the final word on it!

[Xanth]

A dilemma easily solved. In anything subjective a difference of opinion WILL arise. In the spirit of such things the best course of action is to seek advice from an elder. Today however the job of the elders is almost gone. The spiritual leaders are placing their knowledge on YouTube and the likelyhood of books. Their knowledge is again from their perspective and having decades of teachings on this subject only a fool would throw away that given.
On occasion a loop does appear and can be misinterpreted easily by an addition or omission of a single word.
Its in all our interests to be able to communicate sensibly.
Spam and offensive material is removed per se.
A difference of opinion based on that percieved is natural too.
In previous posts an agreement to disagree resolved the issue until further enlightenment of said issue comes to pass.
My view on this interesting topic is you can build items of immense power if you're required to. Also you can get information on things that are primarily based on PHYSICAL world technology. Your memory of it is the key.
Its one T-shirt I've worn on both sides of conciousness. 1979 being the first.
Respect to all.

Nice post Szaxx

Interesting post as always todd. Thanks for the information. I'm still trying to figure this topic out, after many years.

I agree!  Todd has always contributed greatly to the forum! 
Just because I post something to the contrary, does not mean I don't appreciate his input.

And TC certainly isn't the final word on it!

As Szaxx pointed out... obviously he's not the final word.   
I'm puzzled why anyone would even have to point out that obvious fact.  LoL

As I said, we link to him so as not to reinvent the wheel.  He presents ideas and concepts which are usually difficult into words and makes them very easily understood.
The fact that some people are tossing the info aside without giving it due consideration... THAT is what's troubling.  One should always keep an open mind about everything metaphysical.

[Xanth]

Allow me please to proceed more clearly with your post.

IBE (inner body experience) is subjective. Examples would include dreaming, astral projecting, meditation, hypnosis. The nonphysical in these three projections is subjective. This is what the Tom Campbell and Seth books deal with.

OBE (out of body experience is objective). Examples would include mindsplit OBE and etheric projection. The nonphysical in these two projections is objective as long as no random mind chatter or random visualizations are involved with the projection.

I had a mindsplit OBE recently that completely made me experience an objective projection.

The concepts you present here of an "inner" experience and "outer" experience make no sense to me due to my own direct experiences.
What I think you're confusing are just the many different kinds of reality frames one can experience.  You seem to be labeling and separating them all as sub-projection-types... when in actuality, they're all the just the same.

Being "out of body" is merely a perspective based entirely upon a belief that you're "in" a body to begin with. 

[todd421757]

What I think you're confusing are just the many different kinds of reality frames one can experience.  You seem to be labeling and separating them all as sub-projection-types... when in actuality, they're all the just the same.

I will explain.

There is only one OBE. It is external to the physical body. A copy of the mind could be external (mindsplit OBE) or a copy of the mind along with a portion of the energy body (etheric projection) could be external. That is my definition. Etheric OBE's unfortunately contain more reality fluctuations than mindsplit OBE's since there is some loss of energy during the separation process.

All other projections involve an internal awakening of awareness. This is where the disagreements start. This may be classified as an OBE by many, but it is not according to my experiences, since it doesn't have the external awareness attached to it.

The mindsplit OBE is the most objective and most similar to the death projection. It contains very few if any reality fluctuations. Even the lighting in the bedroom has no reality fluctuations to it and matches up perfectly with the physical and RTZ.

So far the majority of my mindsplit OBE's have involved a separation downwards through the soles of my feet immediately while falling asleep. I will then find myself at the foot of the bed staring at my sleeping self and my girlfriend's also.

I want to thank Catmeow for first bringing my attention to the mindsplit OBE's and his theories about them. I have found his information correct based upon my experiences.

[catmeow]

Thanks for the thumbs up todd, and you really are most welcome.

[Bedeekin]

There is a problem here.

I can see both sides of the coin. I spent years having only RTZ projections. Now.. Todd would say I wasn't because they aren't the same because they don't follow the same ruleset as his - I didn't separate via my feet and I didn't have a silver cord and I could get as far away from my physical location as I wanted without losing clarity of reality.

The fact Todd's RTZ experiences and mine differ only in 'self perception' contributes to the supporting fact that it is still subjective regardless of the RTZ accuracy.

I didn't come out of my feet... The separation took many guises... but I didn't have a silver cord because I didn't even perceive a body. I was a single point of conscious perception... more like a roving 'god's eye'.

But I can also understand you Todd because I had exactly the same "I am right" attitude.... HAD... as in past tense.

I can see Xanth's and ultimately Campbell's POV because it makes perfect sense and doesn't diminish the RTZ projection in the slightest. It would have when I was in the thick of my utter stubborn belief that what I was experiencing was Objective... and what APers were experiencing was the illusion. I was so certain. I WAS RIGHT!!!

[ChopstickFox]

This makes me think of:

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

There's not necessarily a right or wrong here. It's all perception and interpretation. One person's conclusion might not match another's, based on their experiences, but regardless we should be respectful of differing beliefs.

This isn't directed at anyone, but I just felt that I ought to throw in my two cents.

[todd421757]

For further references:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/obes_while_wide_awake_with_mind_split-t38124.0.html

and

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/a_very_easy_obe_technique_that_needs_some_fine_tuning-t38413.0.html

[Bedeekin]

That's a really good quote. Interpretation and perception... I always try to add the word 'perceived'... because that is what it is... it's definitely not an 'is'... just a 'maybe' and even 'highly likely'.

*EDIT*

Why did you post those links?

I realise that maybe you were posting them because they seem to propose evidence for mind-split and some sort of two different states of objectivity. They do. But this can also be akin to Parallel processing... in the same way we can daydream while acting out specific actions... like driving to work or doing a task we are used to. We are just accessing the available information... physical and nonphysical. Of which are the two sides of the same coin. It's all the same coin.