Conception and Death

[David Warner]

Ap Friends,

I've heard in the past that avid projections are able to visit hospitals and see patients pass on. Does the projectionist see the white light for the departed? Like in the movie "Ghost" where the medical team is trying to help out the patient and unfortunately they're not able to save him. Then the astral body lifts out from the physical and travels through the tunnel of white light.

Now, what about the miracle of life during conception. Has anyone here during a projection been able to see man/woman during intercourse give life? Would this be the white light baring down into the woman in reverse?

Please feel free to elaborate on this.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

That's a really interesting topic!  I've never witnessed either death or conception, though I think it would be a miraculous experience.

I can share a sort of related experience (with the disclaimer that it may or may not be "true" though I really hope it is!)  It certainly has made me ponder the origins of physical life...  

During one of my "visits" with Patrick, a child appeared with him, a little boy who looked to be around 5 or 6.  He looked just like Patrick, except his eyes were a darker brown, like mine.  He came over to me, and said his name was Liam.  I told him that Patrick and I would have named our son Liam if we'd had one.

The child said:  "I know.  I was going to be your son.  But when Daddy died, you became weak and ill, and your body couldn't hold mine, so it was sent out with the blood."  He said that instead, he would be one of my spirit guides to help me get through life.

It was implicit to me during the exchange that I had conceived before Patrick died, but the child's soul hadn't entered my body yet.  

It's a mystery I'd like to explore--when does the soul and the body unite?  It makes sense that we all exist in spirit before we're "born" in the physical (just as we continue living after we've "died").  I wonder if when we "die," we remember our lives before "birth"--even though we would have developed and changed since then (which I assume is the purpose of physical life?).

Sorry, I'm sort of diverting from your question!  My point was to suggest that observing at the point of physical conception may not necessarily give us information about the spiritual conception of the child.  I'm not sure, but it may be possible.  

I'm still hoping to confirm without a doubt that the Liam I met was real, and really was my son-in-spirit!  I haven't seen him again in any of my encounters.  But then, on that same night, my grandmother had also appeared to me as one of my spirit guides, and I haven't seen her since either.  I guess I've been so fixated on Patrick (who apparently isn't a spirit guide, for whatever reason--maybe he's too "new" at being a spirit???)

[David Warner]

AMM,

I believe what you saw was Liam. If you feel the warmth, comfort, and beauty inside during the experience then without a doubt there's your verification.

It would be a little scary to witness a death in a hospital during a astral projection but educational. As for the conception, some might consider one a peeping Tom...:)

I just wonder if the white light/tunnel people see during death applies during conception or at the time of birth.

Tvos

[Gem]

What an interesting question. I have a friend who has some very interesting theories about death and conception, i'll ask him if I can share them with you.

I don't know about conception having never witnessed it, although I was around when my own children were conceived! lol.

As for death, well that's something I have witnessed, i'm a registered nurse and have had the privilage of being present when someone passes, more times that I care to remember. I have never once been present at a passing when the person hasn't said someone has come to fetch them and on a few occasions I have seen the spirit leave. The film 'Ghost' is just about right, that's very much the way it looked to me, only much fainter.

[Stookie]

In one of Carlos Castendenda's books, Don Juan tells him that he had watched his own son die, and "saw" it astrally. I believe he said that when you "see" death that way, it's not sad at all, but a natural experience.

[LatinasAreCute]

Wow! Fascinating topic! I would have never thought about it! almostmrsmurphy, who is Patrick? I found your account of the little boy spirit or whatever he was, "Liam" to be very interesting.

[David Warner]

Gem,

So you are saying that you've never had a patient flat-line or dye and was brought back to life? If yes, what did they describe when they died and come back?

I've read a lot of stories about the NDE's and find it interesting how it aligns with astral projection and the experiences.

I worked in a hospital in Kalamazoo Michigan on a PC roll out technical project. Covered every inch of the hospital and saw things that would just blow my mind. At least, the stories at dinner time were never boring..:)

When I was at the hospital, I was able to witness death as patients passed on, or working in the morgue. Again, computer technical support in a hospital takes on a whole new meaning. I've seen my uncle die of cancer, my grandmother die as well.

I question if someone who is psychic, that can project, place themselves into the trance communicate with the one who is passing on during that initial release from the physical to their astral body.


Tvos

[Heather B.]

almostmrsmurphy, who is Patrick? I found your account of the little boy spirit or whatever he was, "Liam" to be very interesting.

Hi,

Patrick is my deceased fiance.  He died April 28 in a plane crash (he was a pilot, and doing what he loved, at least).  We were trying to have a child in the months before his passing.  We already had names decided on, and if we'd had a son, his name would have been Liam.

But it may be that we did have a son after all--just not on Earth.  I just love the thought of Patrick being a dad--he was so excited about having a child!  So was I of course, but... well now I have two special guardian "angels."  

[Stookie]

Here's another one of my "what I've read" posts:

I question if someone who is psychic, that can project, place themselves into the trance communicate with the one who is passing on during that initial release from the physical to their astral body.

I believe it was in "Ultimate Journey" where it said that a team (including his wife) was in the astral waiting as Robert Monroe passed over.

[surfer8]

Hi Almost Mrs. Murphy

Obviously I can't give you a definitive answer as to your personal experience, but i can relate to you something I experienced whilst in the early days of my own training as a spiritualist medium.
A few days before our weekly practice meeting, I was walking my dog along the coastal path thinking about the upcoming session and hoping that I would get a good link with spirit that week, when out of the blue I saw a very strong and clear image of a young girl (7or 8 yrs old).

I memorised as much as I could and when I came to get my link with spirit later that week, all i got was the memory of the girl I'd seen earlier.
so I gave the message I'd received to the lady I felt I had to speak to. As I did, some more evidence came through and once I'd finished I sat down again.
The recipient was very emotional as she explained that the description matched her own daughter exactly but that her daughter's younger sister had miscarried.  had she lived, she would have been 7yrs old today.

There was a lot of other evidence (names/circumstances/backgrounds/facts etc) that I won't go into as they were personal to the recipient. but the whole episode convinced me absolutely that a spirit connects to a pre-born child long before birth.  There may be many reasons why they don't/cannot stay but above all else, whilst they are here, they experience fully the mothers love and create a bond that lasts not only through, but well beyond the short physical life of mother and child.

You're very lucky to have not only the love of your son with you, but also the knowledge that he's there to support and guide you through the coming years.

with love
Surfer8

[Heather B.]

Surfer8,

Wow, thank you so much for sharing that!  It makes me feel a little more certainty.  I want to try to visit with Liam some more and let him know how much I love and appreciate him!  Just like I do his dad!  I want to see both of them!    I don't want it to be a one-way relationship, you know... I want to reach out to them and be with them just as I know they are with me.

Thanks again!

[surfer8]

Hi Almost Mrs Murphy

It IS a two way relationship, they ARE with you.  You can talk to them and they will find ways of answering you.  Just be open to the little things as well as the obvious.
They may come to you in dreams or meditation occasionally, but you are here to live out YOUR life as well.
If you look at things from their perspective, they have come to let you know that they are fine and for you to know that "death" is just another illusion.
Ask any engineer, you cannot destroy energy, you can only change its form.

You have to learn your lessons and evolve as a spirit whilst here on earth and it would seem that you have come an enormous way along your path in finding acceptance for your loss.  You can never truly understand joy if you've never experienced a pain to measure it against.

Love life and treasure every moment, even those that seem painful at the time.  
with love
Jon

[David Warner]

Surfer8,

I know this is off the subject, but are you in somerset, California? My wife watches this movie "The Sweetest Thing" and I can remember that somerset was one of the cities the movie was filmed...

Anyways, I wonder who decides what spirit is sent down into the mother/father to be? Is it God, angels, us as parents? AMM, maybe the next time you encounter Pat and Liam, ask them about this. The might be able to help and shed some light on this.

You can never truly understand joy if you've never experienced a pain to measure it against.

You nailed it right on the target!  Always, say "I love you" to the people that are close, because the next day it might be too late!

Tvos

[surfer8]

Hi TVOS
Not California I'm afraid -i wish it was, but Somerset England.
Although I have spent quite a bit of time over there in the past when i worked just north of the bay area (santa rosa).

As to your question regarding who decides, my belief is that is ourselves. We choose the circumstances we need to move us forward in our evolution, whether that is for a life of struggle or ease. Sometimes we stay for many years, sometimes we just touch the earth plane for a brief moment -either to bring a joy to ourselves or to another.


That's my understanding anyway and although there are many millions who have different views, many of them have had little direct personal experience of the spirit (astral) worlds. When it comes down to it, it's a personal thing I guess.

cheers
Jon

[labouts]

I haven't seen birth from the astral (and honestly don't want to see it period) ,but I have seen a spirit thing that seemed to be paying very close attention to a pregnant women. Calling dibs on the life maybe?