The Nature of the Astral Plane

[Tayesin]

Hi Shadow.

That is an interesting concept you have there. Next time you go astral touch your self, you will find that you feel very solid. Why?  because it is a reality.  Touch something in your bedroom while you are astral and your hand will pass through it. Why? Because you are vibrating at a higher frequency and the 'real world' is no longer a solid reality.

We are all a part of the one consciousness, a very unique part of it as each is very individualized. But that does not mean that we are limited by this, in fact, the reverse is true.  Because we are all very powerful beings, we are only limited by our beliefs and concepts.  If we move past belief systems, we free ourselves from the boundaries we have imposed on ourselves.

So little brother I would say to you, please practice as much as possible. Get out there and experiment for your self. That is the only way to come to know your true Self and find the answers that are already within the great Soul that you are.

I hope this is helpful to you.  Love always.

P.S. Sorry if this sounds preachey.

[shadowatcher]

Its slightly on the preachish side, but its a great post anyhoo, thanx for your input, its always valued!

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by shadowatcher

Its slightly on the preachish side, but its a great post anyhoo, thanx for your input, its always valued!

Yep, I am working on the trying not to sound like a preacher thing. It can be quite difficult when the words are given to me and I just type them in. Try hard not to put my own slant on what Guidance provides.

Anyway Shadow, you are very welcome. Thanx.

Love always.

[beavis]

shadowatcher "I think its impossible to meet people there because any entities or sentient beings you did meet woudl be a product of your own mind."

A lot of what you see there is from your own mind, but not all. I've confirmed that in "real time zone" 3 times, but not astral. I'm sure there is a real connection between (some) people. I've done telepathy (which is related to astral) a few times correctly.

"So, if the astral plane is not as I say, and is not a physical place...what is it?"

It doesnt obey the same laws of physics we have here, but that doesnt mean its all in your brain. Its a place where the laws of physics include what everybody is thinking as a parameter, instead of weight or speed.

"If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different..."

Holographic universe theory is similar to that. I think its likely true because it doesnt contradict relativity (of spacetime only) or quantum physics. It basically says astral is like a big brain with each of us being a small part of it that cant communicate with the rest of the brain much because we think too differently. In a brain each part can get almost the same info but in different ways. We dont want to obey the "universal laws" (intent attraction allowance balance) because earth is a distraction, so communication to the rest of the brain is like 2 different languages. I've found that when I want to and do obey them (directed to the object I'm trying to move), my telekinesis ability is a lot more, so the laws are probably correct.

[shadowatcher]

Wow, thanx for thinking so hard...

[beavis]

Pmonline must have deleted his post. Here's part of it:

"if your astral body is exactly the same vibrational rate of the astral plane you're in then it will not just float right threw it. But if your at a different rate and not lock-in / in-sync then yes your hand will go right threw it."

That works well with holographic universe theory (in my above post) if vibration rate = a specific neuron path in the holographic brain. A real brain stores info as the paths between neurons, and it will go in a circle path (vibrate) while you think about something. 2 ideas can interact only if there is a circular path between them (according to the knowledge about brains I received from astral). Thinking about the 2 ideas at the same time will cause a path to be found (usually through other ideas) between them. The point is that astral vibrations work the same way as ideas in a brain.

[shadowatcher]

Try reading/download QUANTUM METAPHYSICS from the download section. It has some interesting things in it that might shed a bit of light.

[shadowatcher]

When I AP I clear my mind of all thoughts, so maybe my mind stops sending messages to my physical body. This would explain a lot...do you think that makes sense?

[shadowatcher]

All particles are related by something amazing and undefinable:

Quote from QUANTUM METAPHYSICS by Joachim E. Wolf

"...Aspect and his colleagues created two photons from the same quantum event and observed them as they speeded into opposite directions. After they had traveled some distance with the speed of light, the researchers changed the polarization for only one of them. (Polarization is the orientation of the wave that
corresponds to each photon.) As a result, the other photon instantaneously adopted the same polarization, even though the two were far apart. Relativity theory tells us that nothing can travel faster than light."

Not on topic, but interesting...

[Tayesin]

Hi again.

Paul, I call Shadow little brother because I see all people as brothers and sisters, and in a human sense he is much younger than me, so he is very much like a little brother. It is just my way of expressing what I feel for people. It is no different than the native american's way, or the way of so many other cultures.  Okay with you?

When words come through me, why should I then have to give the name of the provider to still some uncomfortable notion you have within yourself about it?  I do not subscribe to the concept of 'Ascended Masters' as so many see fit to do.  That may be no further evolved than the way christians disempower themselves to give all things over to God.

I see us all as Masters, very Great Spirits in our own right.  Beings who have existed in so many thousand different worlds before coming here to continue our experiencing in what this system has to offer.  So we have ascended many times and chosen to come to new opportunites when they are availabe. And because we have chosen to do so, we forget what we are. No Soul is greater or older than any other, no soul has achieved greater divinity or higher ascension than any other, with the exception of working our way upwards through this particular 'experience system'.

Spiritual evolution does not stop, there is no place that we reach and say, "Hay, I'm there".  If you feel the need to have that as a conceptual belief system then that is your choosing, it does not necessarily mean that it is all that there is.  It only means that it is what you choose to believe.

So how about you let me get on with sharing the knowledge that we are magnificent, powerfull, and ancient Great Spirits, insted of trying to tie me down to working within your guidelines?  And yes, these are all my words.

Love always.

[sargon]

I see it as a loop, once you get to the top you start at the bottom... then there really isn't a top or a bottom at all, just a loop.

[Tayesin]

Hi Again.

Paul, you might be surprised to find that even 'Ascended Masters' choose to incarnate here. If they have cut themselves off from the possibility of direct experience by choosing to not incarnate, how much are they missing when even our little world offers more avenues for experience on a daily basis?

We may find that some of the apparently less advanced souls are in actual fact an 'Ascended Master' choosing to take on a particularly difficult incarnation in  order to obtain first hand experience, or to do certain things during the upheavals that are almost upon us.

Spiritual evolution is a two way street. From my own work with my higher Self I was to remember that many aeons ago I was a being that was worshipped as a god.  And now I am an average human dwelling here and preparing for what is to come. What this illustrates to me is that there are no hard and fast rules in this game we call spiritual evolution.

Yes there are beings helping us and some people refer to them as 'Ascended Masters', yet they are the same as us.  Yes they have ascended this world's experiences and now choose to no longer incarnate here. But, that is not the all that there is, the be all and end all. So one day you may say "I have arrived", but to where? After these rounds of incarnations you may choose to go on and start in another realm of existence on another world that 'comes on line'. After all, that's exactly what we did before coming to this world when it 'came on line'.

It's mind boggling isn't it?  But we are moths looking at the same light, all seeing the same thing from a different perspective.  And we at least have the ability to rise above that light and see what all the rest are seeing.

Love always.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:My opinion is: the astral plane is a state of consciousness that allows complete/instant access to all of the brains considerable utilities, basically, a journey through the mind. Obviously (i hate using that word but..) its not a physical place you can go to. I think its impossible to meet people there because any entities or sentient beings you did meet woudl be a product of your own mind.

The Astral is a state of mind. You must align your consciousness with it in order to experience it. But you are always on the astral, it is part of you and you it. No it is not a physical place and you cannot go there physically. But it does exist for it is part of all of us.
You do have a great creative power on the astral, really on all planes but it can be more direct on the astral. You can create other beings you meet. But I think it is possible to meet others as well. I think that we are all connected. On a level we are all one. So if we are all one on some level, then we can connect. I have read many accounts of people meeting on the astral, so it seems possible. I myself have had an experience or two with someone helping me. Though it was brief I think that it was more than just my imagination, it could have been another part of me but more than my imagination.

quote: If it is a non-physical place that is not individual (different for everybody) then is it possible for an event to shake the whole astral plane? could some powerful being destroy it or entities within it?

I don't know. From experience I would say it is not possible to effect every single thing within the universe at once in such a way, but who knows. We do not have such skill at our current evolution and any being that would be that skilled and evolved would not want to destroy or probably even effect everything.

quote:If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different...

Is this not how it is on the physical? You can have a crowd of people all witness the same event, yet you will get a different account from every single person. We all see things different, some more than others. Likewise on the astral, each of us may experience the same thing and enviroment, but we may all perceive it differently. One person may be being attacked by a "neg" while another is being helped by a friendly spirit, yet it can be the same event. Perception is everything.


Tayesin, that is an interesting idea.

[shadowatcher]

Good thoughts guys, you gave me something to think about. By the way: have any of you met creatures in the astral plane that knew things you guys didnt? because if its possible to learn amazing new things that you didnt know before in the astral plane, then the astral plane probably isnt an individual place for everyone. For example: If a astral creature told you how to unlock a safe, or the password on a computer, than that would obviously not be from your own subconscious. But perhaps it couold be. We only remember 1/1000 of what we see anyway, so  its definetly possible.

[shadowatcher]

I just reread Quantum Metaphysics...Its quite interesting....

[Nay]

quote:If one just wants to have fun then fine, Lucid Dreaming is great. But I recommend people do occasional tests in the astral. You could fly somewhere you've never been and see if it really appears exactly as you saw it while out of body. Just remember to try and focus in the present time line where your physical body is! If it's not what you saw then don't sweat it

Hey Pm!  Projecting from a lucid dream is quite common. I find it easier than a conscious projection.  It may not be a RT projection, but hey..as long as I get OOB...??
Nay.

[shadowatcher]

I like the way you guys arent arguing just disscusing. Im glad I could create such an interesting topic. For a purely scientific view however...QUOTE FROM QUANTUM METAPHYSICS:BY Joachim E. Wolf

"...the Mind-Body dual. It is known as the "psychophysical" problem and has been concisely formulated by the French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes in his "Meditations", published in 1641 (20). Descartes observed that the world consists of two basically
different substances: mind and matter. Matter occupies 3-D space, mind does not. He could not explain satisfactorily how these two substances, mind and matter, interact, other than through God's intercession. To this day, scientists are debating this problem. We know that each one of us is one individual. Yet our common sense
cannot tell us how our two different constituent parts, mind and body, function together. This is similar to our inability to visualize the 4-D whole of space and time."

So where are your thoughts, since when you imagine something it isnt in real 3d space? where is  it?!?[?] Its quiet interesting really, and I think somehow all this means that there is a "scientific" explanation. I beleive that the truth rests in science.

[beavis]

pmlonline "I remember when I was a little baby how I would so easily see a bear floating above me. A newborn needs to learn what's their imagination and what's not."

How do you know you didnt cause a bear to float above you? You can do it after you die, and before you're born, so why not a short time after?

[shadowatcher]

Lets not bag on him because of his childhood anecdotes.... but good point anyway...

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by pmlonline

They're called Avatars and believe me, you'll know if someone's an Avatar!  Not too many Souls chose to be an Avatar and they DO NOT mess around while here because it is extreme easy for an Avatar to pick up more physical plane Karma.  Jesus and Buddha were Avatars.  You and I and Bruce Roberts are NOT avatars!!!  []

Best wishes,
Paul

Paul, can you tell me how I will know an Avatar when I meet one? Is it the powerful energy that I will feel coming from them? Is it the light color around them? Or is it their actions as they grow and experience in a human condition and possibly shine a little brighter than the rest?

Why do they not mess around? Aren't they humans born into this world exactly like the rest of us? So don't they then have to grow as a human while 'recovering' the skills needed to fulfil their tasks?

Pick up more physical plane Karma?  Does cause and effect cease to exist when one is not in the world? Free will still exists for us in all manifestations of existence doesn't it?  Surely a little mud on the Avatars feet wouldn't be any grave problem?

Isn't the word Avatar a human concept from ancient eastern religions?  So that is another belief system, isn't it?  Jesus and Buddha were Human Beings weren't they? They were beings incarnating directly from the overself/higher self weren't they?

How do you know you are not an Avatar?  Have you remembered exactly what you are?  Is what you are something less than an incarnated higher self?  What you have experienced is all yours isn't it? What you believe is all your isn't it, or is it someone else's belief system that you have learned?  

Paul I am not saying you are wrong. What you believe is very valid as it has been affirmed by your experiences. All I am pressing you for is to say, "look outside your box."  You will work right up to the edge of the box and one day you will pass through it into a bigger box, and then a bigger box, etc.  Every person born to this world does exactly that in their own good time, unless we choose not to. LOL

Love always.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Its quiet interesting really, and I think somehow all this means that there is a "scientific" explanation. I beleive that the truth rests in science.

I believe that there is nothing supernatural. Supernatural, magic, miracles, etc are words used to describe something that we do not know how they work. All things follow the laws of nature (or universe or whatever you want to call it). The problem is, we do not know all the laws and all the facts. So yes I believe that everything has a "scientific" explanation as well. Instead of staring in awe and starting to worship or fear something that people do not understand they should study it and learn its true nature, for that will add to the overall understanding of the Universe.

[shadowatcher]

What really annoys me is whenever something that cant immediately be explained is "an act of god" or an "otherworldy phenom". If people just tried to find a scientific explanation first I'd be happy.

[Tisha]

Folks, I'll try to answer Shadowatcher's question based upon personal experience.  When I OBE, I usually am extremely curious, and I tend to come back with some MAJOR lessons.  Here's one of them.  It was such a biggie that I actually learned it twice in one night; i.e., during two OBEs in rapid succession.

Lesson:  There is an EXACT replica of the ENTIRE universe inside of you.  

This is the only characteristic of the holographic universe you need to understand to give up on the "real" vs. "in your head" debate.
Meaning, it's inner AND outer.  So relax!

As for the seemingly infinite classifications we give astral phenomena (guides, Focus 27, M-field, Avatars, Archngels, heaven/hell, Ascended Masters, spirit animals, greys, fairies, yadayadayada), these are all bits and pieces of BELIEF SYSTEMS.  We all need belief systems to feel organized and safe . . . especially in the Last Frontier of the Astral!  However, beware of presenting belief systems to other people as facts.  Best to qualify your statements with things like "I believe" or "In my religion we . . ." or "Many people think . . ." and so on.  Not that anyone here has sinned TOO much in this regard, I just felt the need to throw out the advice to the world up front, because this is an interesting thread, and everyone is doing pretty good - - - I'd like to see more!

For those of you who are REALLY into understanding the nature of the Astral, studying Quantum Physics is a good start. So is the study of paradox!!!  There is a Quantum Physics forum on Astralpulse, I encourage all who are interested to visit.

[shadowatcher]

good thoughts []

[shadowatcher]

Does anyone else agree that the astral plane is simply a representation of the subconsious?