Could I be an astral rapist?

[kuurt]

I had a sexual dream last night.  I don't have them very often, but when they do occur I have like lucid awareness to some degree, or the thought that it's not really real.  So if I see a girl I will grab her, pull her pants down and go at it because I don't think she's real anyway.  During the experience I think I'm just dreaming and this girl is just made up by my mind.  It doesn't occur to me during the dream that I'm in the non-physical or that this girl could be a real being on the astral plane.  They're probably just thought forms of my mind in all likelihood, but what if they're not?  Could I be grabbing real beings in the astral plane and sexually forcing myself on them? 

If dreams take place on the astral plane, how do you tell what the mind is making up from what it's not? 

[EscapeVelocity]

"If dreams take place on the astral plane, how do you tell what the mind is making up from what it's not."

That doesn't matter right now; what matters is your response to what is shown.

This is among the first decision-points that will eventually allow you into the higher realms, the Astral Proper, as it were.

Until you learn to behave responsibly, you remain where you are. Everything, even thought forms, deserve a minimum of respect.

Just some ideas.

[kuurt]

Are you saying that if I behave more responsibly that I might find myself in a higher realm instead?  I didn't realize I was in a lower realm to begin with.  If I do find myself in a higher realm will it come with the ability to discern where am in this hierarchy of realms?  Because I'm apparently clueless as to what realm I'm in.  Also, what's so special about the higher realms - how are they different?

[Volgerle]

Are you saying that if it's "only" just a "thought form" then astral rape is okay?

[astralm]

Simply behaving 'good' will get you nowhere.  It isn't about behaving, it is about being.  It isn't about what you do, it is about who you are.  Manipulation and deceit of our true motives does not yield very good results outside of this physical reality.  Everyone here hides behind a false mask.  Usually the mask we present to ourselves is the worse of these.  The first step is to confront this mask you are presenting to yourself and eliminate it.  Then deal with and confront the real self you find underneath.  Once this is done advancement can start.

So in short yes you will be mostly, or totally, blocked off from "higher" (the idea of higher and lower realms is just a model) areas, but simply behaving the way you think is considered best to get past those blocks will not get you past them.

@EscapeVelocity

I really liked that comment 'Even thought forms deserve a minimum of respect.'

[kuurt]

Are you saying that if it's "only" just a "thought form" then astral rape is okay?

I didn't see it as hurting anything if thought forms aren't alive.  Am I suppose to ask permission first before I have sex with my thought forms?  I mean, we all have sexual dreams occasionally.  We eat fruits and vegetables without asking them for permission first before chewing them up in little pieces and swallowing them, and they are alive. 

Simply behaving 'good' will get you nowhere.  It isn't about behaving, it is about being.  It isn't about what you do, it is about who you are.  Manipulation and deceit of our true motives does not yield very good results outside of this physical reality.  Everyone here hides behind a false mask.  Usually the mask we present to ourselves is the worse of these.  The first step is to confront this mask you are presenting to yourself and eliminate it.  Then deal with and confront the real self you find underneath.  Once this is done advancement can start.

There wasn't any deceit going on.  I didn't perceive it as manipulation either since I didn't even perceive them as real.  If anything I was being real with myself and my sexual desires of the moment. I think if I held my sexual desires in as if I wasn't really feeling them, then I would be deceiving myself.   

Who I am is someone who would never hurt, manipulate, or deceive another being in the first place without a good reason.  I just didn't perceive them as beings or even real during the experience.  Why would you take into account what a thought form thinks if a thought form doesn't think at all?  Do you take into account what a fire log thinks before you set it on fire?

This whole idea of this being disrespectful seems silly to me.  We do things to things all the time without asking permission first.  If you had a sex toy, would you ask permission first before using it?  Do you ask your food first if it's okay for you to eat it?  Do you ask the ground first if it's okay for you to walk on it?  Do you ask your punching bag first if it's okay for you to beat on it?  If it is just a thought form, I don't see how it's any different.  And I therefore don't see what it has to do with spiritual development or getting to the real self either. 

If it's not just a thought form it would be a different story, that's why it would be nice to be able to discern the difference. 

[Szaxx]

Within what's reasonable and acceptable, you should only do to others what youd like others to do to you.
It's a basic respect thing, don't go doing things your instinct tells you are wrong to do.

Fruit and veg have a hard time too. A plant biofeedback experiment years ago showed the signal didn't change on someone eating an apple. When another guy came up to eat, the signal went mad. Later the host found out the guy had cut his grass before attending the experiment. It may be on the internet somewhere.
Can you imagine being sensitive to this sort of thing?
We're not, but out there things are.
The astral is immense and you can visit environments where doing bad things within it will get you kicked out.
How it works is unknown, I've been in this position and was moved on by who or whatever was watching.
I've decades of experiences too and was amazed at this action.
The actions you take are reversed, being pure of heart is nice when returned. I'd not like to think of the return for raping etc. Probably unpleasant to say the least.

[astralm]

First off let me apologize, you clearly took what I said as a personal attack, and I see what you saw it that way.  It was not meant to be so.

My comment was in response to your question about 'If I behavior good will I get to higher levels?", period.  And yes, I do believe if you behavior merely to gain access to a 'higher' realm it is both manipulative and deceitful, and no it is not likely to work.  The deceit here is not with the purpose of harming someone, or to be a bad person.  It is more a form of self deceit and manipulation.  We often buy into the physical view if we behavior a certain way, we are that way.  What we earn we earn with our actions.  Our actions are not as important as our intent in the 'astral'.  It is my view everyone struggles with this, without exception.  The extent people struggle with it varies though.

I do not think it is highly unlikely, definitely not provable, that all of physical reality and all of us could not be some type of 'though form' in some way.  Truth is no one knows how 'real' or 'fake' thought forms are, so yes I do think we probably owe them some degree of respect.  Also it goes beyond the questions of wether or not it is right or wrong to treat them this way.  In the end regardless of what they are, they represent real people (even if they are only your unconscious manifestation of real people), so yes the way you naturally want to treat them matters.

[enlightnd]

Let me tell you, You are not an "astral rapist" Your simply just letting your human mind have its way in its own fantasy land created by yourself.

And I would say they are just creations of your own, As from my experience I have only ever encountered other conscious beings in higher realms, When you are in the lower stages you can manifest/manipulate anything but in higher realms it becomes much more dense and separated from yourself much more real if have you, Once you experience it you will no when you have met a real conscious being not created from your subconscious mind.

I'll be honest when I first started to become lucid with my own intent I too struggled with my sexual desires, Lots of people do. Its realising what your doing and what you really want.

If you want to stop doing that, You can offcourse, You just have to want to and be conscious of your decisions when you get lucid.

Its hard for some to fully shake the human mind and its thoughts and desires, I remember I would even manifest beings to have sex with if no one was around..  

I bet in waking life you love to fantasize and check out chicks too hey? SO once you get to be lucid instantly your human brain connects the dots - 1: Im lucid In a dream - 2: I can do what ever I want in dreams! - 3: Lets have sex then! Sex is great! OMG SEXY time! And before you no it you have wasted another opportunity to explore the astral realms living out sexual fantasies that really you are not that fussed about, Especially when you realise you what else you could of been doing with that precious time.

Basically its just learning to control that desire and to remember that there is way more fun to be had in the astral realms other than having sex and pouncing on people haha.

Once you really focus your intent on not wanting to pursue sexual fantasies and wanting to progress elsewhere and learn and see what else can happen in this state, That there my friend is you "levelling up" in the astral world.

A minor level up, But it will prove to be a large level up with what else you will get to see and do from then on, Trust me.

That's my 2 cents anyways,  

[desert-rat]

Sounds like its just a dream , your mind at play .  The only girls that were raped were in your head . 

[EscapeVelocity]

Kuurt-
Please don't take our comments too personally, but you have opened a particularly problematic subject. I applaud you for the honesty and sincerity I detect in your posts. This subject opens several avenues of exploration: the varieties, the limits, the practicalities, the ethics...

Like enlightnd mentioned, many projectors have to deal with the sexual issue, me included.

MY perspective and experience: We can spend as much time as we want frolicking in a sexual environment, giving chase to our personal passions for as long as we want. However...this keeps us restricted to our personal Dreamspace and it is cordoned off from the rest of the astral that could be available to us. Until we learn to control and modulate our behavior, we move no farther...this includes learning to control other aspects such as fear, over-excitement, violent reaction, frustration, anger, confusion...in no particular order.

So, yes... They are your thought forms and you can do with them what you like...but maybe at some point you start to understand the inherent reality of the Multiverse, that everything possesses SOME level of consciousness, even that banana or hotdog or even your firelog (great example btw ). Yeah, some Buddhists (I think) and many native/indigenous people's ask permission and give thanks to the foods they are about to consume. So even on Earth, it can be helpful to understand that we are part of a food chain and give conscious thanks to those lower entities that we consume, and that we may, in turn be consumed (jump in the ocean if you doubt me!). There are many levels and directions of evolution and the attendant consciousnesses that go with them. We don't have to paralyze ourselves over it, just to be aware of it.

When you figure out how to modulate the sexual impulse, the next level of the Astral will open to you. There will be challenges and lessons. They will still, from time to time, throw fear tests and sex tests at you. At some point you realize somebody is actually paying attention to your progress...go figure.......

Again...MY perspective...your reality may differ...lol

[kuurt]

Kuurt-Please don't take our comments too personally

Don't worry about that guys.  I'm not taking your comments as a personal attack, not at all.  I understand your point of views even if they seem a bit silly to me at the moment.  I am not saying you guys are wrong, you could be right.  Maybe everything does have a consciousness.  I'm just trying to understand how that could be, and maybe a part of me doesn't want that to be true because after all, the best dreams I have are the sexual ones - they're the most enjoyable. 

It seems like every time I become lucid in a dream I choose to either have sex or fly.  I would like to summon my spirit guide and ask about my lung problem and if I can heal it.  Sometimes I will tell myself "then next time I become lucid in a dream I will summon my spirit guide so I can ask about my lungs".  But, for some reason I can never remember to do that during a lucid dream. Instead it turns into a sexual dream or I take off flying.  Recently I had one where I did both - I was flying around looking for girls to have sex with.  I wonder where my spirit guide is during all of this.  Are they aware of when we are in the non-physical?  Are they aware of our desire to communicate with them?  Seems like they should just come around on their own to give us the information we want. 

[Xanth]

If dreams take place on the astral plane, how do you tell what the mind is making up from what it's not?

This is really your fundamental question here. 

I'll answer it like this...
There isn't an experience you can have that ISN'T "on the astral plane".
For example, this physical reality is just another of an infinite number of "astral" realities.

Most people have this separation between this physical life of theirs and their sleeping life (sleep, dreams, projection, etc...).
In reality, there isn't any separation between these two experiences. 

The direct answer to your question is "you can't know".  You can never KNOW.  You can guess.  You can provide an educated guess, but beyond that, you simply can never know.

As for the pseudo-question you're asking regarding "astral rape".
Do you think you REALLY have "genitals"?
Do you think you're REALLY "raping" someone?

The act as you're physically defining it is meaningless on the non-physical... what's of meaning is the Intent you've placed.  WHY are you doing what you're doing?
Everything you do, act, say, etc... has an Intent behind it.  That Intent is your modifier for your spiritual growth.  Doing things which you know are wrong (physically speaking) probably won't provide you with the highest modifier for your spiritual growth.

That's really the end goal of all your experiences... I call it "purifying your Intent".

[Trepkos]

Sometimes when i get lucid i think; oh hell, why not, and at other times i just fly around. But when i do it i have the problem that i wake up because of the excitement, so i think its better to just give it up. One time i had a lucid dream (i was partially lucid) where there stood a woman in front of me and i yelled: Pull off your pants! She ran away saying rather frightened: Oh my god! When i woke up i had the strong feeling that she wasn't just a thoughtform. Another time (this was a long time ago) i had a lucid dream where i entered a barber shop, and raped a girl. The look on her face was as if she was surprised. This i think was a thoughtform. But here it looks like that i've drawn my conclusion based on the response of another thing or being. Deep inside, the whole thing doesn't feel right though. In the end, one has to draw conclusions based on the intuition that comes from your higher self. You enjoy it yes, but i think that it limits you on your path. Another idea to consider is temperance.

[kuurt]

I usually wake up shortly after becoming lucid too.  I don't think it's from the excitement though because no matter what I decide to do I usually end up waking up shortly after becoming lucid.  My sexual lucid dreams always get cut short, but so do my other lucid dreams.   

[astralm]

This has become quite the interesting ethical discussion.  Thanks for sharing and starting this discussion kuurt.

@Xanth

I don't want to speak for you, but I am pretty sure you, like myself, believe this physical reality is really some sort of virtual reality.  In that case do we here in the physical really 'have genitals?' are we therefore not 'capable of rape'.  Very simply put we never can really KNOW like you said what is real or fake.  So doesn't that come with some sort of responsibility to treat everything as if it was real.

If non-physical is as real as physical than it does require just as real of an ethical code.

Some things such as shared dreaming are well documented.  How often things like this occur who knows I don't think any large enough studies have even been attempted and may not even be possible with out low level of dream recall.  This possibility may be really low but is it really worth the risk of giving someone a nightmare.  I'm not saying you should worry over every action you have in a dream but yeah I think it is important not to do things CONSCIOUSLY which you deem as non-moral just because you are not in physical reality.

[Xanth]

This has become quite the interesting ethical discussion.  Thanks for sharing and starting this discussion kuurt.

@Xanth

I don't want to speak for you, but I am pretty sure you, like myself, believe this physical reality is really some sort of virtual reality.  In that case do we here in the physical really 'have genitals?' are we therefore not 'capable of rape'.  Very simply put we never can really KNOW like you said what is real or fake.  So doesn't that come with some sort of responsibility to treat everything as if it was real.

If non-physical is as real as physical than it does require just as real of an ethical code.

Some things such as shared dreaming are well documented.  How often things like this occur who knows I don't think any large enough studies have even been attempted and may not even be possible with out low level of dream recall.  This possibility may be really low but is it really worth the risk of giving someone a nightmare.  I'm not saying you should worry over every action you have in a dream but yeah I think it is important not to do things CONSCIOUSLY which you deem as non-moral just because you are not in physical reality.

You can look at things from two perspectives...

You can look at it from the perspective of ONLY this physical reality (this is the perspective of a good majority of humans), in which, yes, you we all do have genitals and what you do can and does hurt people physically.  "Raping" someone is generally tended to be frowned upon.
OR...
You can look at it from the perspective of the larger reality, in which, no, you don't... and where the only thing that has any meaning is the Intent you place behind the "actions" you do.  The "Intent" placed behind the why of "raping" someone is generally a negative growth towards your spirituality.

Ethics and morals apply to both, just in different ways.

In the end, everything is virtual... and Intent is all that really matters since that's the only way you will ultimately judge yourself.  Purifying your Intent ensures you make only Love-based choices.  The more you Purify your Intent, the less "choice" happens and the more it simply just becomes who/what you are.

I tend to look at most things now-a-days from the larger reality perspective.  In fact, I find it difficult to see things physically.

[FuzzyQuills]

In fact, I find it difficult to see things physically.

Well, I'm not surprised, judging by your posts and your free book!