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What is the difference between a lucid dream and visiting somewhere in Focus 3?

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orian

What is the difference between a lucid dream and visiting somewhere in Focus 3?

My understanding is that Focus 3 comprises of various "places, levels, planes" that we can change the look of by thought, or create objects in them by thought. I might be wrong, but that is the impression I get from reading some stuff Frank Kepple wrote.

Given this, if correct, how does a person who is experiencing a place in Focus 2, know that they are not just having a lucid dream - or indeed visa versa: how does a person having a lucid dream know they are not just experiencing a place in Focus 2?

Xanth

This is where Frank and I go our separate ways.  I don't view consciousness as being so neatly divided between a personal area of consciousness and collective area of consciousness.

Consciousness is a whole, you perceive what you experience and that's it.

The question I feel you're really asking is what is the difference between a lucid dream and an astral projection.

To that I answer the difference is only the level of awareness you have during the experience. The closer you can get to having the same kind of awarness you have now (I call it a waking awareness), the closer to a full projection you are.

Szaxx

Generally from what I've read many moons ago Frank labelled level 3 consciousness as an experience totally unlike the typical experiences we expect eg lucid dreaming. The 3 experience is on another level. Example, a state of mind where you are a point of conciousness and you perceive your environment as pure white light. You have no body and there's nothing there to see but this light. However, what you feel there is absolute bliss. There's nothing on earth like it. The purity and intensity overwhelm our human minds. The bad point is you don't want to return, its that intense. There are other examples but you need a lot of experience to become one with Frank's level 3. They are quite rare too
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

orian

Quote from: Xanth on August 31, 2023, 14:27:26The question I feel you're really asking is what is the difference between a lucid dream and an astral projection.

To that I answer the difference is only the level of awareness you have during the experience. The closer you can get to having the same kind of awarness you have now (I call it a waking awareness), the closer to a full projection you are.

So in effect there is no such thing as what we call lucid dreaming and astral projection, but rather a continuum of consciousness at varying degrees of perception. With the more practiced practitioners able to get the clearest perception of what they experience or "see" on this continuum? 

orian

Quote from: Szaxx on August 31, 2023, 17:47:23Generally from what I've read many moons ago Frank labelled level 3 consciousness as an experience totally unlike the typical experiences we expect eg lucid dreaming. The 3 experience is on another level. Example, a state of mind where you are a point of conciousness and you perceive your environment as pure white light. You have no body and there's nothing there to see but this light. However, what you feel there is absolute bliss. There's nothing on earth like it. The purity and intensity overwhelm our human minds. The bad point is you don't want to return, its that intense. There are other examples but you need a lot of experience to become one with Frank's level 3. They are quite rare too

Frank does talk of a Focus 4 which sounds like what you describe as level 3. I was reading the Resource on him and he said there is Focus 1, Focus 2, Focus 3 and Focus 4. Focus Four is like what you describe. He said that Focus was "populated" by humans who got together and created the physical universe. That part of it sounds a bit outlandish. Because if they created the physical universe where did they come from if they were humans. I think Frank got a bit too enthusiastic there.

Xanth

Quote from: Szaxx on August 31, 2023, 17:47:23Generally from what I've read many moons ago Frank labelled level 3 consciousness as an experience totally unlike the typical experiences we expect eg lucid dreaming. The 3 experience is on another level. Example, a state of mind where you are a point of conciousness and you perceive your environment as pure white light. You have no body and there's nothing there to see but this light. However, what you feel there is absolute bliss. There's nothing on earth like it. The purity and intensity overwhelm our human minds. The bad point is you don't want to return, its that intense. There are other examples but you need a lot of experience to become one with Frank's level 3. They are quite rare too
I believe you're referring to Frank's F4oC.  That's the point he described where what you explain occurs. Apparently.  👍

Xanth

Quote from: orian on September 01, 2023, 06:40:15So in effect there is no such thing as what we call lucid dreaming and astral projection, but rather a continuum of consciousness at varying degrees of perception. With the more practiced practitioners able to get the clearest perception of what they experience or "see" on this continuum? 
Yup!

Szaxx

Ha, Looks like another read would be my best option here. I forgot Frank has 4 levels, I mixed up a tad on this one doh!
Nice reminder Xanth, recall activated....
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.