I have possession problems, please help me

[Summerlander]

Ok. I'll have an OOBE next week and I'll be posting my experience here. I was quite interested in visiting Darina but I will wish to visit her father instead. See where this leads. Darina deserves this opportunity of possible enlightenment on the whole situation.

[Pharoah]

Can it be both?

[Xanth]

i'm legitimately interested to see how that turns out summer.  make sure you do share the story.

I'm not... I'm fairly certain someone is being lead around by the nose here.
But meh... knock yourself out Summer.  >_<

[Summerlander]

Can it be both?

Maybe. I hope there's enough time!

[Darina]

I'm sorry, Summerlander.

[personalreality]

I'm not... I'm fairly certain someone is being lead around by the nose here.
But meh... knock yourself out Summer.  >_<

call my interest healthy skepticism.

i'm just interested to see how this drama plays out.   

[Pharoah]

call my interest healthy skepticism.

i'm just interested to see how this drama plays out.   

+1

[Summerlander]

I'm sorry, Summerlander.

That's ok. I'm gonna do what you've asked of me. Make sure you send the picture tomorrow.

[mykorock]

Why in all similar threads about such type of possesion issue, many of you think this can be easily resolved by simple will (if you don't believe in xxx, nothing can hurt you)...
Althought I am not even experienced in astral travel, but after reading many articles and experiences, dont you think possesion is a different issue than meeting negative entities in the different astral planes?

[Pauli2]

start a new thread about it

[CFTraveler]

Althought I am not even experienced in astral travel, but after reading many articles and experiences, dont you think possesion is a different issue than meeting negative entities in the different astral planes?

I think it's different.

[Summerlander]

Darina still hasn't sent me a PM. Has she gone missing? I hope Xanth wasn't right about her...

[NoY]

you are a giant sphere of mind that covers all life,made in the image of god, you have every angel every demon and every devil inside your mind anyway and all thought forms. its only possession if they rule your mind

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:NoY:

[Summerlander]

There's no such thing as being possessed by demons. I've been there, believe me..."possessed" so to speak. But I don't consider it being possessed by something. To me it was something else...like a reaction of what was going on with my parents at the time. As for projections being linked to such phenomenon...I'd say yes from my experience. I'd have many false awakenings which, in retrospect were projections. In them, pale-skinned beings would chase me and violate me. They looked sentient but now I've had enough experience to be able to tell that such scary episodes are fear manifested. That's all.

[Darina]

I wasn't able to access my comp these days so im sorry for making you wait. i don't want to let you play with my trouble and put it on a show here. no, thanks.

[SomeRandom]

Put it on show?...

Is this not what you're doing?

[Darina]

Summerlander, i didn't mean that, sorry for bothering you. thank you very much for your help and proposition, i changed my mind, i'll try to cope by my own.
Darina.

[Pauli2]

I think that's the most sane post so far.

[ether2]

 

good luck

love all

[Summerlander]

Summerlander, i didn't mean that, sorry for bothering you. thank you very much for your help and proposition, i changed my mind, i'll try to cope by my own.
Darina.

Ok. That's alright, Darina. If you change your mind just PM me and I'll keep my OOBE visit to you confidential. My offer of a different perspective is still open. But then again, you could have an OOBE and visit your father's mind too. It may give you the answers your looking for.

[Selea]

In them, pale-skinned beings would chase me and violate me. They looked sentient but now I've had enough experience to be able to tell that such scary episodes are fear manifested. That's all.

Naturally, they "can" be, and usually they are, in the majority of cases, and in the majority of cases they are just a nuisance (as in this one).

However there are many of these so called "demons" that are much stronger than you think, and much less "non existent" (whatever that word means)  than you think. If you are interested you can try reading the Goetia, then try "evoking" (properly) Bhaal without a so-called circle. "Fear manifested" or not, "aspects of the subconscious" or not, after you will have to deal with it, and it will not be a pleasure, I assure you (at all, it will either be very dangerous, so no, please, don't do it, it was just a provocation; I've personally known only a supreme butt that did a thing as that and he died two days after throwing himself from the sixth roof, and for what? He wanted to win the hearth of a girl and was so sure of his grandeur as to not either care about everyone telling him it was a really bad idea; usually people are not so idiot, either if they want to "try", and they go safe, "evoking" something "minor", with much lower consequences).

There are various "degrees" in the power of these "demons". What you encountered are just the so called "lamias". Those are what you usually encounter on the "astral" and they mean very little. They are so weak as to be easily overcome and not cared upon. However there are some types of these "demons" that are all another thing, and not to be toyed with if you know not what you are doing.

Practically speaking the probability of encountering one of these "demons" is bar none if you don't voluntarily go searching for them and you know not how to do it, but they exists, and they are just not only "fears", I assure you (or, even if they are, they are so strong as such that whatever they are, you are anyway in great trouble if not approached correctly, so it doesn't really matter).

Naturally you can think otherwise but all of the "pragmatic" people I've met (as your friend Beekdkin) also if they are so sure of what is "real" and what's not, never dared doing a thing as I mentioned before. Maybe because they don't care? It can be. Maybe because also if you show here that you "know better" you cannot be so certain of nothing in reality and it's better to just avoid coming into trouble just for bullying in a forum? (Luckily, I must add).

To the OP; this was not directed at you, naturally. In your case people here are right, you should not put too much weight on it because the more you have fear the more "power" what these "things" have. I was speaking of something specific, not your case at all. So don't become impressioned. Mine was academical talk, not related at all with yours.

[Xanth]

That's a wonderful personal perspective, Selea. 

[Summerlander]

Indeed it is. Maybe these entities do exist in the non-physical and they prey on the fearful or those that go looking for them. Such mischievous entities can go by many names. The religious would refer to them as "demons", of course. I have no interest in going there though. I still think that Buddha's story illustrates what they are quite well, though. Mara wasn't really a sentient being. He was a product of Gautama's mind. The devil in all of us. My experiences seem to indicate that they are not real ever since I stopped running. Perhaps my mind isn't really there.

The Goetia is a piece of writing bound to excite the imagination of those who read it. You said it well here:

Practically speaking the probability of encountering one of these "demons" is bar none if you don't voluntarily go searching for them

About this:

they are just not only "fears", I assure you (or, even if they are, they are so strong as such that whatever they are, you are anyway in great trouble if not approached correctly, so it doesn't really matter).

It's a bit of an oxymoronic statement - don't you think? One minute you say you can assure me and then in brackets you practically say that there is still a chance that they might be... - Either they are or they are not. I'm not scared of them and I don't believe in them, hence I don't experience them. Also, is there a correct way of approaching demons? I didn't know that! why would you want to approach them anyway (supposing that such things even exist)?

Yesterday I sent my children to bed before putting Nightmare In Elm Street on. I have no doubt in my mind that had I let them watch Freddy Krueger, they would have had nightmares about him or something just as horrible and scary to them. Why? Because it would have made an impression on them. The fear would further fuel the nightmare. Adults are not so different with their mysticism, Goetias , religious beliefs and astral projection...

These demons or negative entities (whatever you want to call them) are more likely to be anthropological concepts or archetypes arising from dissonant states of mind. I can assure you that they are only strong if you believe them to be strong - which you already do - so you are deluding yourself there. The only "protection" you need is a stable mind and a good head about you. That's all.

[Selea]

Indeed it is. Maybe these entities do exist in the non-physical and they prey on the fearful or those that go looking for them. Such mischievous entities can go by many names. The religious would refer to them as "demons", of course. I have no interest in going there though. I still think that Buddha's story illustrates what they are quite well, though. Mara wasn't really a sentient being. He was a product of Gautama's mind. The devil in all of us. My experiences seem to indicate that they are not real ever since I stopped running. Perhaps my mind isn't really there.

The problem, as I see it, is that you just lose yourself always on what is "real" and whatnot, instead on focusing on the experience. I already told you at last twenty times but it seems that you don't want to listen: "it doesn't matter what's real and what's not, what matters are the practical results you get by doing certain things".

The Goetia is a piece of writing bound to excite the imagination of those who read it.

And what's "imagination"? Why do you consider it any different than what is "real"?

It's a bit of an oxymoronic statement - don't you think? One minute you say you can assure me and then in brackets you practically say that there is still a chance that they might be... - Either they are or they are not. I'm not scared of them and I don't believe in them, hence I don't experience them.

The fact that you *cannot* experience them (because you don't know how to) it doesn't mean that they are not there. If you will do a stupid thing as the one I mentioned (and please, I repeat, don't do it) you will then "experience" them, no matter if you are not scared of them and don't "believe" in them and if they are just a "belief construct" brought on the "imaginination" exalted by the cermenony, and you will have to deal with it. Will be the "dealing" all a product of your "subconscious"? It could be. Will be the "dealing" just a product of your fears? It can be. Still, no matter what the dealing will really be, the results and the "encounter" would be devastating, both for you and those near you, and it will have a real impact on your life, practically.

"By doing certain things, certain results happens". You care too much on if the "result" is "real" or "not real" instead of caring about both how to reach that "result"  and how to use it.

Also, is there a correct way of approaching demons? I didn't know that! why would you want to approach them anyway (supposing that such things even exist)?

There are motives why you may want to approach them. Goetia "demons" are usually approached to acquire material things or material informations. In more general terms "demons" are to be used for specific, practical things of less "spiritual" nature.

Everything has its uses.

Yesterday I sent my children to bed before putting Nightmare In Elm Street on. I have no doubt in my mind that had I let them watch Freddy Krueger, they would have had nightmares about him or something just as horrible and scary to them. Why? Because it would have made an impression on them. The fear would further fuel the nightmare. Adults are not so different with their mysticism, Goetias , religious beliefs and astral projection...

Sure, and the *practical* difference where it is? Your children could either die by a strong fear (as everybody can), unchecked. Will it then be "real" or not "real" that "fear" for you?

The difference, in this case, is that Krueger will be a product created by the fear of the child, it does not "exists" as an archetype already. Certain "demons", as a Goetia demon, already exists as such, so having "fear" of it or not it doesn't change the status and "impact" it has on you.

Having a fearless attitute is a very good advice, as it is, however, to *respect* everything, especially those things you know nothing about.

I can assure you that they are only strong if you believe them to be strong - which you already do - so you are deluding yourself there.

And I assure you that some of these "demons" aren't, in the terms you are seeing it, the difference here is that I have personal experience in dealing with them, while you don't, so guess what? I think I have more experience than you on the matter to know what's what.

You start always from the arrogant presumptions that I am "deluded", as if I would be a sort of "believe anything just because I have to". This is what makes you feel better with yourself, in this way you can discard everything I say thinking you "know better". It is a sort of automatic protection you have; but, if you need a shield, is because something inside you knows it has to be protected.

Yet, also if you "know better" and you are so sure these things are not "real" and are "delusions" or cannot do you no harm if you are as you are (naturally supposing you are "better"), all your "security" will melt in practice because I could bet everything you want that you will tinkle on your pants after just about 10 minutes if in practice I would let you do a thing as that, seeing what it "happens". I know because I've been there, with similar individuals as you.

I repeat: all pragmatic people I've met are really good at talking, but when they have to show their "security" on certain things, they always avoid doing them. It is because they really don't care or just because also if they put down everything they consider "bogus" in forums they know perfectly they cannot be so dogmatically sure, one way or another, of what's "real" and "not real" so it's better to not awake the sleeping dog?

Do you know it happens in the same way for OBEs? Also them can be just a construct of the mind, isn't it? Yet you are *using* them, isn't it? So what's different?

The only "protection" you need is a stable mind and a good head about you. That's all.

Sure.

But you suppose I'm "mad", isn't it? Or a "deluded" individual, not knowing what's what.

[Summerlander]

Selea...

OOBEs are acknowledged by science. They are often purported to be many things by the scientific community, but, what they are remains elusive. And yes...they could all be in your head. I never claimed to know anything for sure. Read my guide on how to induce OOBEs and you will find there that I mention the possibility that they might be in the head. The fact that you mention this is irrelevant. The only person claiming to know it all here is yourself and I'm giving you the opportunity here to look at yourself by holding a mirror up to your face. Again, OOBEs are a real phenomenon, what they are is what eludes us.

The same thing cannot be said about the Goetia demons. There is absolutely no proof that such sentient beings exist and can be interacted with in the Phase. There is proof, however, that the mind has the power to create many things. You seem to have an interest for esoteric writings but you completely disregard that that is just someone's view being expressed (and usually with ulterior motives).

Have you heard of Karma Lingpa? His teachings are found in The Tibetan Book of the Dead. He also engaged in esoteric practices and his view was somewhat different from that of, say, Aleister Crowley, for example. In the intermediate state, upon death, one may experience scores of demons, which, as it is stated in the Bardo Thodol (and I have it!), have no existence but a subjective one. Once the deceased realise this, they can move on from their mental dissonance towards a more harmonious state of being.

You are focusing on that and moving right towards it. I'm telling you...you are moving towards your own mental gunk as you allow yourself to be impressed by all this Goetian nonsense. Demons don't exist like people do. They are aspects of your psyche and some are from your imagination. there's a reason why we have nightmares too...to help us face our fears.

In forums like these we encourage people to project and to stay away from the bovine excrement that will discourage them. All you are doing is telling the newbie that entering the Phase can be dangerous...not so! Not at all. You are like a child being told about Santa Claus and the Boogieman and believing in them because mummy and daddy said so. Let me tell you something...these books that you read are the fantasies of another arse-wiper. Have you ever experience one of the Goetia demons? Even if you think you have, what makes you think you didn't hallucinate the experience?

Selea, if you want to remain in your ignorance you are quite welcome. I'll let you believe in your demons and engulf yourself in fear while I carry out my Phase studies and occasionally enjoy rich and interesting experiences that will invigorate my artistic inspiration. Don't bother replying to tell me how much I'm wrong because, the next time I post here, it will be in reply to someone else's post.