Present

[Catatonic]

I don't know if this should be here... but then again here it is..

I kept thinking in the last days about the present and some ideas and questions came into my mind. What exactly is present?
When is the present?
  I mean, present should be right between past and future... but present, actually, is both past and future.
If the time stops right now, we can call that present. But as time rolls on how can we tell when it's present?

Cheers

[b12145]

it's always present, future and past are just concepts used by humans to explain present they aren't experiencing at the point they are now, like me talking about tomorrow, im experiencing today and tomorrow at the same time but the me that's experiencing today is not aware that it is experiencing tomorrow, and vice versa,  get it? we create time because we are not aware that we are experiencing the eternal now or present, if you are willing to believe i think the all, universe, or people call it god, is aware that it is experiencing all presents at the same time(the eternal now), hope you're not confused

[Catatonic]

i see...

but take it this way, then.. you ask someone what time is it. and they might say, for example, 8:00:00. if the time stops, that is the present. but after he says that is 8:00:00 time will go on so the sec will be 01, 02... when u asked - that was the past and when you found out what time it is , it's future already.  am i right?

does present exist?

[MisterJingo]

it's always present, future and past are just concepts used by humans to explain present they aren't experiencing at the point they are now, like me talking about tomorrow, im experiencing today and tomorrow at the same time but the me that's experiencing today is not aware that it is experiencing tomorrow, and vice versa,  get it? we create time because we are not aware that we are experiencing the eternal now or present, if you are willing to believe i think the all, universe, or people call it god, is aware that it is experiencing all presents at the same time(the eternal now), hope you're not confused

I pretty much agree with b12145. Past, present, future, time, they're all concepts to help us structure and understand our direct experience. Ultimately, all there is is change (time itself is possible entropy of the universe – moving from a highly ordered state, to a more disordered state from the point of the big bang), this increasing entropy and consequential changes of state is conceptualised as the passage of time by us. Luckily, we have a means of recording these changes and we classify them as the past, and due to self-awareness and possible evolutionary advantages (foresight and planning), we can project change ahead (the future) of the current rate of change.
The present is all there ever is.

[Selski]

Time is a man-made construct.  We use it to function as human beings.  Animals have no use for it.

The more correct answer to "What time is it?" would be "Now".

Present is the only 'time' that exists.  We are constantly in the present.

Ponder it for a while.  It's quite a wonderful thing when you truly come to realise what that actually means.  

I hope I've been helpful and not just regurgitated what b12145 has said.  

Sarah

By the way b12145 - your post made perfect sense to me.  

[Selski]

"snap" misterjingo! 

Sarah

[MisterJingo]

i see...

but take it this way, then.. you ask someone what time is it. and they might say, for example, 8:00:00. if the time stops, that is the present. but after he says that is 8:00:00 time will go on so the sec will be 01, 02... when u asked - that was the past and when you found out what time it is , it's future already.  am i right?

does present exist?

i see...

but take it this way, then.. you ask someone what time is it. and they might say, for example, 8:00:00. if the time stops, that is the present. but after he says that is 8:00:00 time will go on so the sec will be 01, 02... when u asked - that was the past and when you found out what time it is , it's future already.  am i right?

does present exist?

If time stopped there would be nothing, as the electrons in your brain would freeze, no processing would occur, and any space in this 'no-time' would effectively not exist.
As above, the present is a concept, as even 'now' has a latency due to nerve impulse speeds and processing of information (we are effectively living slightly behind the rate of change (time)).

[MisterJingo]

"snap" misterjingo! 

Sarah

[Catatonic]

The more correct answer to "What time is it?" would be "Now".

Present is the only 'time' that exists.  We are constantly in the present.

I understand what you say, Sarah... but.. " What time is it? " needs a specific time.. i mean, i put present next to time... seconds go by.. present doesn't exist, i think, and i'm just sharing an opinion here....  you say that present is a definite interval. what is that interval? 2 seconds? the 2nd second after you respond is the future.. 1 sec? seconds are divided in other things that are keep moving. if time is moving on we're actually part of future. so future comes any time now... the next second is our future. and the second that just passed is now past. where's the present?

and yes, i know these are all man-made to keep track of time and so on.. but it just hit me

[Stookie]

Here's another (metaphysical) idea -

Imagine your entire life as though you were seeing it as an object. From beginning to end, it's one single blob. Time could be a method of unraveling that conglomeration into separate experiences. The further one moves from time and space (I know... that makes no sense), the more that separation becomes a single conglomeration. I think that's what people mean when they talk about "oneness".

In this sense, the future and past are also present, but it's time and space that restricts, yet organizes, our perception of this.

[Catatonic]

yes, stookie, but tell me what ya think about  " the present" . does it exist? ( knowing that all this is a man-made thing)

[Selski]

" What time is it? " needs a specific time.. i mean, i put present next to time... seconds go by.. present doesn't exist, i think, and i'm just sharing an opinion here....

Hi Catatonic

I know exactly what you mean - I've been there and it's difficult to comprehend.  But the fact that 'time' doesn't really exist is quite liberating once you realise this.

you say that present is a definite interval.

Do I?  That doesn't sound like me.  My current interpretation of "present" is infinity.  You are trying to put a timeframe to something that always is.

Again, I would urge you to spend some time meditating and thinking/pondering the idea of 'present' being the only time/place we are.

Man-made is good thinking - you are beginning to "get it"!! 

Sarah

Any more questions, just shout! I'll do my best...

[Selski]

Stookie - I love your interpretation of time - that sits well with me.

Sarah

[Catatonic]

selski - your interpretation about " present" is infinity, you say. then where is the future and the past?

i don't think that present is " always" . take it from another's person view. you're telling me: " look, it's 8:00" but that information will get to me somewhere in the immediate future. that's my present, let's say... in a continuous movement, different than yours, when you told me that is 8 o'clock.

what i don't understand is.. when is the present and when is " now" .


eddie

[Stookie]

yes, stookie, but tell me what ya think about  " the present" . does it exist? ( knowing that all this is a man-made thing)

Yes, the present exists, but our perception of it is still skewed by time and space. Our senses take in sensory data from the world around us. The data travels in time and space through our biological make-up. Through the process of thinking we unconsciously associate the data input with past learned concepts, then take this interpretation as being the "present". But in time and space, the "present" we experience is already gone AND it's been filtered through our time-space physical body & concepts.

So in this theory, the true "present" can only be experienced without (outside of... urrggghhh) time and space and that means it encompasses the past, present, and future - EVERYTHING. That's the ever-present NOW.

It's also easier to understand outside of time & space

[dotster]

First I would just like to point out that nothing in fact "needs" a specific time, it is we, human beings, that chose to to give signify events by means of time, as many other people have pointed out. I would recommend to you, as others have, that you sit and meditate and ask yourself: what is time, really?

(I am apologizing in advance for relating this all to language, however, I am a linguist and it is how I find it most easy to convey my perspective)

Just an interesting fact I thought you might find interesting, English and most all other modern day languages tend to rely heavily on many different "tenses". For instance the Future, the Near-Future, Conditional, Past, Recent Past, Future/Past Continuous, Past/Future Perfect etc. etc. In some of the rather older languages, and some of the less tampered with modern day languages, like Modern Mayan languages, there are only two tenses: past and non-past (although in other dialects of Mayan they use only future and non-future). These are the only comparisons. When they speak without tense, it is what we would call the "present" but there is no word for this in any Mayan dialect because their view of the "present" is not nearly as close minded as ours is. I find it rather intriguing that to learn some languages, you must be willing to change the way you think; the way you have been brought up.

To help you, let me tell you this: You have never done anything in the past, and you will never do anything in the future. You do everything NOW. It is a difficult concept to grasp sometimes. You might have to think about that for a while, but let it sink in, and really think on it.

You will not ever tell yourself:  << I will comb my hair.>> or << I have combed my hair.>> while you are in the process of combing your hair. You are doing it now, and now is not the future, and now is not the past either 

That is now.

[b12145]

i made a theory that if one were to stop the concept of time(which does not exist in true reality) that all energy that makes up the reality would stop. stopping vibration of energy of all realities would cause the universe to jump back into potential energy, ceasing the existence the universe. in other words stopping the concept of time would end universal existence.

[Selski]

Hi Catatonic

Read dotster's post - he/she puts it far more eloquently than I can! 

Sarah

[Catatonic]

well, i think NOW is a misconception.
in my opinion it doesn't exist..NOW... no, it's just a definite interval. you eat NOW, you eat from 8:00 till 8:15 ( if you're hungry). while you're doing it you say NOW but the next second that NOW is in the past. i can't say that NOW is every second because , then again, seconds are divided in other cute stuff that keeps on going.

[dotster]

I can understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, but you are thinking very limited thoughts. Do you think that everyone in the world knows what a second is, or an hour? While most modern cultures do use these concepts, there are others that are not so restricted in their matters of time. Some people do not think in seconds, or even know what a second would mean. I am not telling you that you are wrong, I am only trying to show you a new perspective. Not all people think in "time" as you do. You and I give the word "now" a different meaning. To me, time is on going, it is continueous, like a river. Suppose there is a stick floating on the river. The word "now" to me, is represnted by this stick continuously floating on the river. It is always continuing, never stoping. Therefore, to me the concept of now is undefinable by time. Where you are telling me that "now" non-existent then from my perspective there would be no past, and there would be no future. There would be nothing at all.

All in all, it's just a matter of perspective. We are all here, living and experiencing, and that's is what's most important, is it not?

[Catatonic]

i like your analogy, dotster. 

the river is flowing and the stick that goes along it's LIFE.  NOW would just be a rock dropped in water. being heavier, of course, it will sink. but the moment of the impact is NOW for me. and you can realize that is nothing so important. you see the rock, NOW you don't.
and from my perspective it's full of past and future.
suppose you dig a new "arm" for this river.  water comes along, what was once dry is now wet (past) and what is dry still will be flooded (future).  place NOW ( the rock) in a dry place water (life) it will just keep on going.
it's to tiny this NOW that i think there is no NOW.

it's true, just a matter of perspective. we're living, we're eating, we're breathing we're dying. but we can come up with ideas ( good or bad) and - thanks to technology - share them with people around the world.

[dotster]

How very true. I am glad you liked it, and can use it to help shape your own view. I rather like the way you think. For me however, I must stick with the stick. The rock, to me, would indicate an event in life. The rock, dropping to the bottom, would then become stationary, and to me "now" or "present" is never stationary. As I said, to me, always moving, with me. I like the way you have put it though, it helps me understand your perspective with more clarity.

[Catatonic]

i made  a mistake in the first sentence cause later on i sad the river was the life. but the stick is really " the event" for me. cause whatever that is... it follows you in your life.

[Stookie]

If were going into Taoist symbolism...

The ever-present NOW (Tao) is like a river, flowing effortlessly around rocks. It's constantly in motion, always changing forms to accommodate obstacles and objects. You can't point to a piece of the water and say "this here", as it's already changed forms. The molecules that make up the water you were pointing at are long gone. If you try to pick it up with your hand it falls through your fingers.

The stick or "event" is taking place within the constantly changing river. But the event isn't the "NOW" - NOW (Tao) is what allows the event to happen in time, which we perceive as "present".

[Catatonic]

i never knew that all the river - life thing was linked to Taoist symbolism. it was just an analogy to clear out some ideas