Who Understands Quantum Metaphysics?

[JoWo]

Hello Mark,

Thank you for your interesting contribution to our discussion. You wrote:

quote:I think we all agree that horrible things are going on in the world. And the question is, what to do? What to do? I think it's important to note that human beings move through stages of consciousness. The general trend, supported by a vast amount of research, is a person's consciousness moving from egocentric, to ethno-centric, to world-centric. This is a slow process.

Yes, so it is, and I have a few additional thoughts.  Before we decide exactly what to do, we need to have a clear idea of what needs to be done, what needs to be changed.  What is the root cause of humanity's impasse? IMO, the root cause is a misunderstanding of how the universe works.  Religions as well as science have implanted belief systems that contradict reality, and this led to erroneous behavior.

In religion, metaphorical images of a universal deity have been misinterpreted as an omnipotent and human-like but perfect God who created us. Yet, in spite of the creator's perfection, we somehow ended up being imperfect.  We were made to believe that we were sinners that needed to be punished, and that were far removed from God.  And since we consider ourselves separated from God, we also feel separated from each other.

Reality is the exactly opposite.  The transcendent Whole of the universe is one with us all.  In ultimate reality, there is no separation between us.  Science has enhanced our feeling of separation through its scientific materialism that is still the mainstream scientific paradigm.  

Imagine, instead, that all people in the world would be convinced that we are all one, that we are but cells in one cosmic unit.  Imagine all humans being convinced of their one-ness with the All and with everyone else.  Picture how they would identify themselves with this cosmic One as their own inner self.  People would instantaneously think and act according to the welfare of all, because they would know that the welfare of all is their own welfare.  Then they won't need any "morals" to foster moral behavior because they won't want to hurt themselves.

In this sense, Mark, I believe that ideas are not only a start, but they are the essential moving force.  Once you have instilled the right ideas, the appropriate action follows automatically.  The needed action is to educate as many people as possible, as soon as possible, about the true nature of reality.  I believe that this is the anwer to "what to do?".  And I agree with you, Mark, that practices like meditation, performed with dedication and perseverance, are required in order to secure the new ideas in peoples' minds. I also believe that the belief-change is very urgent.  True, the human evolutionary pattern evolves from egocentric, to ethno-centric, to world-centric, similar to how a person passes through childhood, adolescence, and maturity.  However, we are not satisfied with this detached view of events if our teenage daughter has AIDS, or our son is a drug addict.  I believe that humanity's present state of affairs is more an emergency than a normal evolutionary phase.

Greetings!
Jo.

[JoWo]

Hi Red Dragon,

Good to hear your point of view.  You wrote on May 31:

quote:Reading and understanding Jo's book was pretty easy, its just a different reasoning semantic for what shamans do, i.e access these other dimensions.

I know little about shamanism, so it is so much more satisfying to see the agreement between our views of reality, coming from opposite directions, so to speak.  I pursued a scientifically supported, rational approach in my book.  Using easily observable phenomena in our environment plus results of modern physics, I formulated a set of facts that together form a "Holistic Logic" that naturally leads to a worldview of multiple dimensions, most of which are invisible to us "ordinary citizens".  IOW, using scientific facts and rational thought, it is possible to postulate a cosmic system that agrees closely with age-old spiritual wisdom.

For you, Red Dragon, the multi-dimensional concept developed in my book may be "old hat", but most western people are still rooted in the mechanistic, anti-psychics view.  For many, a shaman is a throwback to "primitive cultures", not to be taken seriously.  You must have encountered this attitude, Red Dragon.  

quote:I'm involved in a vision quest with 2 other shamans. The only vision of the future we had that held out hope for the monkeyplanet's survival was that we should develop these abilities that were previously relegated to the province of mystics and psychics. Not only does this entail achieving a sort of "supra-consciousness", but some pretty neat abilities come with it, i.e. levitation, flight, passing through solid objects, etc.

So, just how to bring about this awareness seems to be the critical problem in addition to determining the mechanics involved.

It is impossible for individuals to develop mystic and psychic abilities unless they first accept that they are for real.  The prevailing western opinion is that they are hocus-pocus.  Therefore it is so important to inform the public about how science supports these phenomena.

quote:Anyway, my theory is that using the brain's crystalline structures via one's thought process causes not only these physical effects, but enables perceptive access and depending on the dimension, actual interaction. So far, there doesn't seem to be any way of avoiding a corresponding "spiritual awakening".

The latter seems to be the biggest hurdle to overcome and is potentially the most debilitating to the individual. Whether we're therefor "wired" for a belief in deity or an "All Consciousness" is a point in question, and thus concepts of "the whole" and its different dimensions simply seek to rationalize this belief.

We are dealing with semantics here.  I have used the word "Whole" to avoid the emotional baggage of existing spiritual terms. Words such as 'spiritual awakening', 'deity', 'All Consciousness' have different connotations for different individuals.  I dare say that most people don't even understand the concept of spiritual awakening.  I also think that ultimate spiritual awakening for a broad populace is neither feasible nor necessary. All that is necessary is for a large sector of humanity to accept the reality of universal "wholeness" including its logical consequences.  We are talking about a "critical mass" of people who see the light.  Once the media support such concepts, we could hope for a change in humanity's direction.

quote: . . . We're a little behind in our appreciation and integration of "The Grand Design", so to speak and our corresponding evolution into humane beings. In the meantime, as was pointed out, the planet and life on it heading for deep doo doo!

 

It's never too late to soften the blow, I hope.

Jo.

[mustang]

Jo Wolf writes

quote:We are talking about a "critical mass" of people who see the light. Once the media support such concepts, we could hope for a change in humanity's direction

The media are part of the problem, in every way. They will never support any concept that has anything to do with any truth whatsoever. The media has to tell people what they want to hear, and people want to hear lies, they want their bigotry and prejudices and delusions confirmed, and the media does that for them.

You would sooner get the AAAS and the NAS on board supporting such concepts, than getting the media on board for sure.

[JoWo]

Hello Everyone,

I may be off the air for a while because of computer problems.

Greetings!

Jo.

[JoWo]

Hi Red Dragon,

On June 8 you wrote:

quote:Many are the paths. I'm an M.Sc. myself so I'm familiar with the scientific method. One of the other members of the "vision quest" I'm in is a math/physics savant. We used the scientific method to validate, replicate our experiences.

Sounds interesting.  Have you ever considered working with an organization such as the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) or the Consciousness Research Laboratory (CRL)?  Obviously, you need a more sympathetic environment for your work.

quote:Positive belief systems have been proven to enhance psychic results in the 90's.

Of course, we create our reality through our beliefs [].

quote:Not only is North American society not satisfactory any more, its sliding into a fascist state as theorized for the last 20-30 years.

This and your other examples of general dysfunction are all part of the overall trend I mentioned before.  The answer can only be in a better understanding of how the universe works.  It's the motivation behind our discussion here.

quote:JoWo:

quote:I dare say that most people don't even understand the concept of spiritual awakening. I also think that ultimate spiritual awakening for a broad populace is neither feasible nor necessary.

Red Dragon:

It doesn't seem to be feasible in our increasing secular NA society. Unfortunately, despite my/our efforts, I haven't found any method that will avoid this spiritual awakening. Refusing to accept it, or accepting it incorrectly, leads to madness or worse. This is my reasoning behind the postulate that our brains are hard wired for this even though the brain's programming is generally variable.

Interesting how your and my views of differ. I see full spiritual awakening as the ultimate goal of our life experience, whereas you seem to perceive a problem with it.  I assume that the difference is in the approach to spirituality. Let me try this explanation:  I approach spiritual awakening as a natural outcome from thoughts and actions, supported with appropriate meditation, that are in complete harmony with the transcendent Whole of the universe (All-Entity).  This boils down to practicing unconditional love, which is All-Entity.  
If I understand your schamanic approach correctly, Red Dragon, you practice certain psychic exercises in order to modify physiological functions that enable you to experience psychic/spiritual reality.  

I leave the physiological modifications up to the spiritual guides that we all have, trusting their judgment of what's good for me.  You, Red Dragon, take matters more into your own hands, possibly speeding things up, but also taking the risk of potential missteps.  There are pros and cons for either approach, but I would like to hear your view before expanding on this subject.

quote:A shamanic awakening starts with the other dimensional or dark energy suddenly flowing into the head and then down through the body. Needless to say, shamanic awakenings have an unacceptably high failure rate, about one in 3 die according to the lore. Thankfully its very rare.

It may not be a failure from the dying person's point of view. Perhaps he/she likes it so much more on the other side?

quote:We are working on how to do this. But we can't seem to get around going through the "zones" of "omniscience and omnipresence" which is where screw ups occur. Its a poser allright. We even designed and built (based on my Kabbalistic drawings - I've decoded a lot of the ancient tech.) a combination kundalini/caduceus circuit that would activate one's crystalline brain structures. The same result of having to go through a spritual awakening occured.

Sounds to me like a rather delicate surgery requiring an antiseptic environment.  Doesn't this take completely purified mindsets of all participants to avoid mishaps?

Greetings!
Jo.

[JoWo]

Hello Mustang,

On 09 June you wrote:

quote:The media are part of the problem, in every way. They will never support any concept that has anything to do with any truth whatsoever. The media has to tell people what they want to hear, and people want to hear lies, they want their bigotry and prejudices and delusions confirmed, and the media does that for them

I agree with you that this is so now. Yet we can never hope for a better state of affairs unless we do something about it. It begins with interested individuals communicating better alternatives. There is already an "underground" movement towards a new understanding of spirituality.  Several organizations are addressing the problems and a growing number of books are being published about a new view of spirituality. Some publishers already specialize in this field. I believe that we will be better off supporting this trend rather than giving up and watching the growing misery.

Jo.

[JoWo]

Hello Mustang,

Thank you very much for your detailed PM about medical problems affecting South Africa.  I answered you with a PM on 06-16 but I believe that you did not receive the message because of some computer problem.  This post here is a close copy of what I tried to send to you before.

I read through your references and it's rather bad situation alright.  I am impressed about how knowledgeable you are of this subject and I can imagine how it affects you.  To me, your story is another vivid example of what is wrong with humanity, quite in line with many other examples.  

We have a choice now how to react to such depressing facts.  I don't know how you personally cope with this, Mustang.  It's not easy, and if you don't watch out, it could eat you up.  Whatever you focus your mind on, this you'll experience in your future.  I'm not saying to turn our mind away from misery that needs to be corrected.  I'm rather saying that we create the desired future by focusing our mind on what is desirable, not what is undesirable, on the solution, not the problem.  We still focus on the same subject, but from a different angle.  It's a subtle but important difference.

I got the picture of what you are telling me, Mustang, supported by your net references, and it requires a remedy.  My own reaction is that I am even more motivated to help others understand how the universe works, how people hurt themselves when they hurt others.  Once they grasp this as a "fact", the new common sense, not moral but common sense will cause them to act responsibly.  This may sound like a long shot, but it is the only way I can think of that will do the job.  Modern man needs more than religious or moral principles.  After having gone though the "survival of the fittest" wringer, humankind must understand that "you create your own reality" by how you treat others.

You had some comments concerning the meaning of 'belief', Mustang.  We have a bit of a semantics problem here.  By 'belief' I simply mean what I consider to be correct.  Forget about its religious connotation, although religious beliefs are also considered to be correct by many. By correct I mean factual.  So there are wrong beliefs and there are correct ones, i.e. factual.  

A person's beliefs determine his/her thoughts and actions, whether the beliefs are factual or not.  If the beliefs are not factual, then the results are unsatisfactory.  The corporations' belief in survival of the fittest is erroneous and therefore causes the massive problems such as the one you described.  A change of belief to "we are all One", if genuinely accepted, would change all this.

Now, I am not so naïve to assume that you, I, and perhaps a few thousand others can turn this around.  I am counting on what I believe is an impending evolutionary shift. "We are All One" is an idea whose time has come, supported by powerful spiritual forces.  There are many channeled messages along this line that I consider credible.  It's the new common sense supported by the holistic logic of quantum metaphysics.

Greetings!
Jo.

[JoWo]

Hello Red Dragon,

Thank you for your long message.  I'll need some time to digest it, and I'll be away for the better part of next week.  So please wait with your "fly-bys" [].

Jo.

[JoWo]

Hi Red Dragon,

quote:

quote:JoWo:
Interesting how your and my views of differ. I see full spiritual awakening as the ultimate goal of our life experience, whereas you seem to perceive a problem with it. I assume that the difference is in the approach to spirituality. Let me try this explanation: I approach spiritual awakening as a natural outcome from thoughts and actions, supported with appropriate meditation, that are in complete harmony with the transcendent Whole of the universe (All-Entity). This boils down to practicing unconditional love, which is All-Entity.

Red Dragon:
I didn't mean to convey that impression. I personally have no conceptual problems with a spiritual awakening per se. However the absolutely overwhelming intensity of a "full" one simply cannot be described. Shamanic ecstasy is but a step towards it. The problem will be with people with an insufficient, inadequate or no spiritual foundation. As for my view of both secular and religious types who would experience this "rapture", right now it seems that a lot will simply die from the experience. The folks who think they are "rapture ready" for instance, are in for one hell of a surprise. They'll be among the first ones to "burn".

As I understand it, the more benign approach of natural spiritual growth via meditation and conscious living automatically avoids this fierce "rapture" type of Awakening.

quote:Hmmm... Unconditional Love is but an aspect of All Entity, admittedly an agreeable approach. But...How would It know what unconditional love is in the absence of hate? Good in the absence of evil? Even then, such concepts only demonstrate the limitations of our thinking abilities. This All Entity is All Consciousness, including concepts like hate and evil.

Right. That's the point: letting go of our limited kind of thought, of accepting, without judgment, that What Is. It is identical with unconditional Love.  We can't do this by trying to sort it out rationally. Any such attempt is counter-productive.  The only chance to sense the unifying harmonious whole of opposites such as Love and Hate, Good and Evil, Space and Time, etc. is via a meditative state of mind.  It requires a temporary surrender of our opinions.

quote:

quote:JoWo:
I leave the physiological modifications up to the spiritual guides that we all have, trusting their judgment of what's good for me. You, Red Dragon, take matters more into your own hands, possibly speeding things up, but also taking the risk of potential missteps. There are pros and cons for either approach, but I would like to hear your view before expanding on this subject.

I refuse to sacrifice my free will. It's the greatest gift we've been given.

When I decide to let a surgeon remove my appendix, it is still my free will, even though I don't do it myself [].

quote:I've had no past lives, . . .

I have never heard of this possibility before, but if this is so, I can understand your unconventional approach to spiritual reality.  It is certainly interesting to listen to your perspective, Red Dragon.

Greetings!
Jo.

[Necromancer]

Greetings All:

I am having a little trouble following on in this thread but from what I surmise I agree with both, as it sounds like the analytical and the artistic hemispheres of the brain arguing perception to the consciousness.

I think JoWo wrote

Quote:
The problem will be with people with an insufficient, inadequate or no spiritual foundation. As for my view of both secular and religious types who would experience this "rapture", right now it seems that a lot will simply die from the experience. The folks who think they are "rapture ready" for instance, are in for one hell of a surprise. They'll be among the first ones to "burn".

I am sure how you mean this but I can see it happening. In my younger days I awoke the kundilini within and became able to awaken the kundilini in others with a touch and have seen lives come apart and die. It was without proper guidance and understanding some people have had a lot of problems with the awakening. It is like in Plato's postulate of this world being a shadow of reality, when the id and physical become one in the conscious hell breaks loose.

Red Dragon wrote something that caught my eye in this thread, as it is also what I do:
Quote:
We are working on how to do this. But we can't seem to get around going through the "zones" of "omniscience and omnipresence" which is where screw ups occur. Its a poser allright. We even designed and built (based on my Kabbalistic drawings - I've decoded a lot of the ancient tech.) a combination kundalini/caduceus circuit that would activate one's crystalline brain structures. The same result of having to go through a spritual awakening occured.

The caduceus circuit I thought was on a metaphysical level with a shaman and this sounds hardwired. If so, no way would I get next to that thing. I don't have any problem building computers but that is out of my league. I'll stay with my laying on of hands and sending someone to when or wherever chosen.

I think JoWo this is your postulate that we are hard wired for a spiritual awakening, have you ever thought that maybe that is because this is not the first one or second or even the seventh. Homer in his writing of Atlantis alluded to tales others told that the earth had gone through many such epochs.

I do like your Holon Principles, and really relate to the holographic imagery of a tree at various degrees. It just seems that through my raised kundilini my understanding of the division of dimensions is disappearing. I'll expand this a little, it goes back to the two great forces the immovable perfect and the irresistible perfect and the what happens when they touch. That was the beginning and here we are in a war with; the immovable the singularity of existence, the first dimension the irresistible force, infinite dimensions everywhere at one time.

The elegant string theory is a good place to start. In quantum physics every string is the smallest moment of time, or it is an event horizon of time. In this quantum world one side of the string (actually the center it just looks like the other side) would be the singular point of existence and the other side world be a specific time or space. In as much as that point of singularity within that quantum string is the same point in all quantum strings throughout the totality of existence. This would be the bottom end of our universe or the constraint of one end.

Where we are now is living on the event horizon, we are only surface dwellers walking on the membrane of the micro and macrocosmic experience. Living in tangencies of multiplicities in a 2 dimensional world. Like within your explanation of the Holon crystal except we have continuity over multiple planes. That tangency is the singularity that is every thing and everywhere. In a short time we are going to have a reality shift, like in every atomic particle there comes a time of quantum fluxation, as we will pass through an event horizon.

The upper limits of eternity or this cosmos is limited by the restraints of the giant black holes. It would seem that when quantum strings pile up or get to close or forced to touch each other the individual time and space signature is lost and what was two now is one. This reaction goes on and on like some mystical radicand splicing all those elegant strings together. At first just a small hole in our space then a rift in our space-time continuum a giant black hole is born.

This would make the center point of all black holes a doorway to the same point and all singularities within a quantum string the same point.

[JoWo]

quote:I think JoWo wrote

Quote:
The problem will be with people with an insufficient, inadequate or no spiritual foundation. As for my view of both secular and religious types who would experience this "rapture", right now it seems that a lot will simply die from the experience. The folks who think they are "rapture ready" for instance, are in for one hell of a surprise. They'll be among the first ones to "burn".

Hello Necromancer.

I believe that Red Dragon wrote this passage.

quote:I think JoWo this is your postulate that we are hard wired for a spiritual awakening, have you ever thought that maybe that is because this is not the first one or second or even the seventh. Homer in his writing of Atlantis alluded to tales others told that the earth had gone through many such epochs

I actually have no opinion about hard wiring or soft programming of our brains.  In fact, I know nothing about this.  My views are of philosophical nature based on an enlightening experience of higher reality.

Concerning string theory, I could never warm up to it. (Perhaps I don't understand it enough). The concept of higher dimensions coiled up in incredibly thin strings does not make sense to me because this appears to be an attempt to squeeze higher reality into the confines of our 3-D world.  Instead, I am convinced that it is the other way around. Our 3-D world is a limited aspect of a much vaster multi-dimensional reality that is not limited to our concepts of space and time. Because the multi-dimensional reality is transcendent, it is still "immanent" in every aspect of our 3-D world, as a 3-D object is transcendent to and immanent in its 2-D surface.

Jo.

[Chimerae]

Dear Jo Wolf,

I'm not sure how to put enough respect into this to give it the balanced response I really intend.  So I'll just say that this all comes with respect and leave it at that.

What does your understanding of Quantum Metaphysics imply in answer to your question about the lack of interest in your forum?

I would imagine that most people out on Astral Pulse are at some level gifted or sensitive.  It may not be something they can necessarily pull up into a consciousness they can manipulate with words, but there must needs be something resonant for there to be an attraction to this subject.  

My interesting in quantum mechanics and metaphysics is intense.  I admit that my mathematics are completely inadequate to crunch the numbers, so I can't really run with the big dogs on this subject.  I know that. I deal with it.  I just don't like staying on the porch.

The pure science is out of my reach but I can and do twiddle with the application and experience.  These twined subjects are a consistent discussion among my local circle of associates, some few of who DO crunch the numbers in their pure  form.  All this is to say that I'm very much interested in your discussion topic.

Also, while I am sensitive, I'm not a whimp.

When I clicked onto this topic of discussion, I was hit by a massive barrage of negativity.  I don't know how often you read this with new eyes, but this discussion reads like a bunch of nearsighted engineers whining about why not everyone thinks their particular version of a subspecialty is the most important anywhere.  

I adore engineers, but there's a reason not many people listen when they speak.  

Exclusion is the name of the game here.

Some newbie (like me) posted, and I believe was told something like healing wasn't applicable to Quantum Metaphysics.  I presume he went away and didn't come back.  

Umm. O . . . k . . . a. . .  y   That sounds a little to my ears like saying that sailing doesn't apply to water.  Technically, I get your point, but MY experience of the intersection of quantum mechanics and metaphysics tells me that the node has application with everything, everywhere.  Healing is often the place people get focused and motivated and open to learning.    

Basically, your personal message comes across as the old kids litany "My House My Rules" followed by the also familiar wail:  "Why won't anyone play with us?"

I totally agree that this subject is the key to a workable future -- that it's concept evolutionary and everyone needs to embrace it.  I'm not sure that you serve that goal by declaring an open forum and then scolding posters for talking about stuff not on your agenda.

And while I'm at it, if the arena is really that exclusive, how come I can read these posts in simple english and not as page upon page of mathematics . . .or links to charts?  

Sure . . . set the limits where you like and enforce them.  But in doing that, does it then make sense to complain that the world within your policed limts is somehow . . . limited?

It's terribly rude of me to jump in here with such harsh observations, but I think what you have is extremely important and I feel the legitimate desire for greater inclusion of this critical concept in the group mind.  

So with what meager skillfulness I have, I offer my outside perspective on your oft echoed question:  Why don't people take the time to understand?  

BOTH Quantum Mechanics AND Metaphysics offer clear implications as to the answer.  I suspect that your book "Understanding the Grand Design: Spiritual Reality's Hidden Logic" spells out the answer with greater clarity and it takes a lowly tech such as myself to redirect the theoricians.

Best Regards,

Chimerae  

[JoWo]

Hello Chimerae,

Thank you for your stimulating message.  

Adrian Cooper, the owner of this site, initiated the Quantum Metaphysics Forum (see:  Sticky: Welcome to the Quantum Metaphysics Forum).  Adrian informed me about his expertise in ancient spiritual scriptures and that my Quantum Metaphysics website expressed virtually the same fundamental wisdom in modern terms.  So he invited me to participate in his forum. Surely, Adrian knows that, for his audience, "there must needs be something resonant for there to be an attraction to this subject", as you put it, Chimerae.

My motivation and desire is that others recognize the urgency for all of us to understand the fundamental wisdom lest humanity continues its present slide into anarchy.  I am sorry that you, Chimerae, feel "this discussion reads like a bunch of nearsighted engineers whining about why not everyone thinks their particular version of a subspecialty is the most important anywhere."  There is nothing "subspecialized" about it, Chimerae.  And it has nothing to do with "My House My Rules" or "Why won't anyone play with us?"

quote:Some newbie (like me) posted, and I believe was told something like healing wasn't applicable to Quantum Metaphysics. I presume he went away and didn't come back.

I have no idea where this comes from. It certainly contradicts my own writings.

quote:I totally agree that this subject is the key to a workable future -- that it's concept evolutionary and everyone needs to embrace it. I'm not sure that you serve that goal by declaring an open forum and then scolding posters for talking about stuff not on your agenda.

Did I do that?  Tell me where, please.

quote:And while I'm at it, if the arena is really that exclusive, how come I can read these posts in simple english and not as page upon page of mathematics . . .or links to charts?

??

quote:Sure . . . set the limits where you like and enforce them. But in doing that, does it then make sense to complain that the world within your policed limts is somehow . . . limited?

I am not aware of any limits other than the usual common courtesy applicable to online forums.

quote:It's terribly rude of me to jump in here with such harsh observations, but I think what you have is extremely important and I feel the legitimate desire for greater inclusion of this critical concept in the group mind.

The only way I know how to do this is to become more familiar with the concept.  Let me know if I can help you with it.

Greetings!

Jo.

[Necromancer]

Jo:

I appoligize for taking so long to respond; felt like I dropped a conversation in the middle to put out a fire and in doing so I left you with the impression of squeezing higher life formation wasn't the goal.
Concerning string theory, I could never warm up to it. (Perhaps I don't understand it enough). The concept of higher dimensions coiled up in incredibly thin strings does not make sense to me because this appears to be an attempt to squeeze higher reality into the confines of our 3-D world.
The point of the singularity, wormholes, and space-time concepts was the idea. That the center point of every black hole throughout the cosmos is the same point in the same dimension of singularity. Also that the center of every string is that same singularity.

It only leads to the fact that this dimension is the surface tension or tangency to all dimensions, a gateway if you will. In the Kundilini Yoga there is Ouroboros the serpent that consumes itself from the tail, or serpent biting its tail, a symbol of the creation, the beginning and the end, continually consuming and growing. That is how I see the world of quantum physics related to ancient teachings. Also I see this in your holon theory. Each string in the quantum universe being the smallest particle of a holographic image, or the smallest moment of time. On this level it is quite easy to see that time is not a fluid motion and not continuous. That in the quantum universe it flows in multi-directions, and through multiple parallel dimensions.

That should tell you that this so-called 3-D universe is more than that, which usually people forget about the 4th part of out universe that is the time-space continuum. Scientist or theoretical physicists in quantum mechanics are beginning to see and study this phenomenon.  Our sub-atomic structure is that of a multiverse of your holons that flow in all directions of time and space and our perceptions are of the majority. This would lead you to the fact that our 3-D universe is actually a composite of past, present, future, and parallel universes.

I take question to all these so-called higher dimensional beings and their higher reality; they lead you to the idea that this is "just a stepping stone along the way to a higher consciousness." This is a fine-line of debate as I am connected to beings of altered states of consciousness. What I have learned is that we are the ancients we are the advanced higher beings and that time space is nothing like you know of. I am not trying to "squeeze" higher reality into the confines of our universe it is a fact of life. The fabric of our time space is made up of those holons of all eternity.

WE ARE THE MAN!

Oh here is a link to just one of those quantum physicists. Within my OOBE, occult practice, and necromancy, I have learned to take people through these things but that might be just an illusion too.

http://www.qubit.org/people/david/David.html
The Structure of the Multiverse
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/quant-ph/0104033
has appeared in Proceedings of the Royal Society A458 2028 2911-23 (2002).
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/quant-ph/9906015
Authors: David Deutsch

[JoWo]

Hello Necromancer,

I have basically no problem with your explanation.  An important part of Holistic Logic is that the higher dimensions are immanent, that is inside and transcendent, in everything.  As your soul is immanent in your body.  Ultimately, the highest "dimension" beyond all dimensions, the one that is not limited in any way and not definable other that it is a singularity, is immanent in every tiniest something that exists, whether we call it "string" or whatever.

The problem I have is with the concept that the higher dimension is "curled up" within such strings.  This implies that the higher dimensions do not expand beyond the dimensions of the strings.  This contradicts the concept of "higher" dimensions, IMO, particularly the concept of a singularity.

quote:I take question to all these so-called higher dimensional beings and their higher reality; they lead you to the idea that this is "just a stepping stone along the way to a higher consciousness." This is a fine-line of debate as I am connected to beings of altered states of consciousness. What I have learned is that we are the ancients we are the advanced higher beings and that time space is nothing like you know of. I am not trying to "squeeze" higher reality into the confines of our universe it is a fact of life. The fabric of our time space is made up of those holons of all eternity.

I don't see a conflict in assuming higher dimensional beings versus the notion that they "are us".  "We" are both, our individual selves as well as our souls.  From the viewpoint of our present incarnation, we must assume that higher dimensional beings do exist, such as our souls.  Their consciousness encompasses the parallel universes of their multiple incarnations.  Ultimately, we are all One.  This implies that we are also those higher dimensional beings.

Greetings!

Jo.

[JoWo]

The Quantum Metaphysics forum has seen over 430 posts on about 40 subjects since Adrian's initial post some ten months ago.  Many contributions were interesting and helpful, yet I cannot remember one of them that reflected a true understanding of the subject at hand: what does Quantum Metaphysics tell us?  Has anyone read the book titled "Understanding the Grand Design: Spiritual Reality's Hidden Logic"?  If you have not, please see other readers' opinions. Go to www.quantum-metaphysics.com.  On its first page, click <font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">"What readers think of my book."</font id="Times New Roman"></font id="size3"> This will motivate you to learn more about this subject.

If you are at all interested in how the universe "works" and how modern science and age-old spiritual wisdom merge into one, if you want to understand how the "New Age" concepts are supported by modern science, then do yourself a favor, blow $16.95 and get the whole picture.  This book heralds a future science, and it leads you to an understanding of life's deepest mysteries, associated with an inner peace, joy and freedom that must be experienced to be appreciated.
Please understand also that my motivation for promoting this book is to help as many individuals as possible to "see the light", and to contribute my share to a better future for humankind.  I may never see a penny profit from it.

Who understands quantum metaphysics? Let this topic thread be a place for contributors who have at least tried to understand Quantum Metaphysics and its core concept, Holisitc Logic.  My website www.quantum-metaphysics.com provides an essay titled "Revolution in Common Sense" which states the basic ideas.  However, it was written back in 1991 and my book is scientifically more up-to-date, it reflects a deeper understanding on my part, and it is easier to read, supported by many illustrations.

I believe that we have nibbled around the edges of Quantum Metaphysics long enough.  Let us now delve into the actual substance of what's all about!

Greetings!
Jo Wolf.

[knucklebrain1970]

Holy Crap Batman, I think I've died and gone to heaven.

         


My new home on the net. QUANTUM METAPHYSICS

Hi everybody

Kevin (knuckle)

[Necromancer]

JoWo:

Sorry it took so long to get back to this subject, computer problems, but I guess you understand what I mean.

When you think of a dimension being curled up inside of a quantum string as small you are only using this so-called 3D logic. Through quantum physics Dr. Stephen Hawking describes how these miniscule fragments of time when combined become a gigantic black hole that binds the galaxy together.

Take your pick a quantum string anywhere any place in time or space or a gigantic black hole anyplace anytime and you will be in the same point of existence, the 0 dimension, or the first dimension. Maybe I would have to take you into the astral planes to see what I mean.

In 4th dimension logic it is very easy to conceive of something being much larger on the inside than on the outside. It is like the story of Alice Through the Looking Glass, it's just the door that is hard to deal with

[cristaphin]

As a metaphysical child, I'm not even going to pretend to understand alot of this.  However, I would like to say Thank You to everyone for having a lively debate and being polite and not getting too snarky on each other.

For someone like myself, who is trying to learn, I often find the hardest part is trying to read past all the flames that people toss when trying to get their own point across and they are being either misunderstood or attacked for their viewpoint and i've witnessed some very deft deflections here.

Not only am I learning a smidgen of Quantum, I'm also learning how to present, and accept opinions.

Namaste teachers, one and all.

[Necromancer]

Hi cristaphin

If you have an opinion I wouldn't like to hear one. Then I could tell you where you're wrong: JUST KIDDING-lol. I try to maintain that we are all as the blind that are asked to describe an elephant by one touch.

As you can see by the dates of posts the activity in this subject isn't a heated discussion.

[cristaphin]

Alrighty then, for better or worse, this is what impression I'm developing.

*Ah-hem, cough, clear throat*

Every single spot of space (even that empty space where the neutrons whiz around is/are) is song/vibration/energy web.

The less refined, the lower/harder it is. The more refined, the higher/more flexible.

Humans, have a funky kind of juxtaposition in that we have a multi-layered song.  As in, we are already made up of different notes, we can learn to hear the individual notes.

Since we have access, by nature to different tones, we have the ability to eventually control our voice, thereby creating new songs with resonating harmonies.  Therefore, we have the ability to change ourselves, and eventually the tones in our surrounding environment.

Which will be really important when we are no longer 'bound' to matter (we're dead or OBEing) because we will be/already are to a degree responsible for the reality in our immediate vicinity.  

Hey, wouldn't that make us self playing synthesizers?

[JoWo]

Hello Necromancer,

I certainly agree that any point of our world contains immanently the entire multidimensional universe. The higher dimensions are immanent within everything.  Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but the concept of higher dimensions being "curled up" to fit into lower dimensional space does not jibe with my experience of higher reality.

JoWo

[JoWo]

Hello Cristaphin,

Welcome to the club  , and thank you for your comments.

Jo.

[Necromancer]

Hi cristaphin

I like the way in which you are relating things, seems like you might have a musical interest. One part of what you said:
"Since we have access, by nature to different tones, we have the ability to eventually control our voice, thereby creating new songs with resonating harmonies."
I was wondering if you would expand a little more. Being a necromancer I think I understand what you mean but would like to know more. When lying within the realm of spirits I hear many voices, not as you imagine but as the knowing of the vibration of individual spirits. If one was to enter this realm without the knowledge of their own voice it would be reminiscent of the age of Chaos, being pulled this way or that depending on whichever voice you listen to.

From what you have expressed I can relate it to JoWo's web page http://www.quantum-metaphysics.com/essay.htm where he expresses his view from a quantitative analyses viewpoint and you express it in more of an artistic form, kind of a right brain and left brain concept. I look forward for a good argument of either.

I do have a question for you and JoWo, why is this physical perceived in such a negative way? As for me this is a very great learning ground where the laws of creation and re-creation are learned. I have learned that no matter where I go I still have physicality. Not that my physicality is like the one in this world of eternity but the underlying laws of existence still apply. I have been in altered states of reality where in a light body, I fly, go through objects, and time travel but in a difference I am still physical. In the higher depths of quantum physics one sees that there is no real solid, only energy or vibration.

JoWo:

"It is just a matter of semantics," but I'm not going to give up on trying to show that there are doorways to higher dimensions all curled up in what was.

[JoWo]

Hello Necromancer,

why is this physical perceived in such a negative way?

Not everyone perceives it that way.  However some individuals who believe in the more basic nature of spiritual reality tend to "look down" on physical reality.  Physical reality is not "bad", of course.  It is an aspect of "God", and you hinder your spiritual growth if you hate any part of God.  Without it, we would never be able to experience the exultation of spiritual reality.