Does God Exist?

[ether]

Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing

and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas!

good luck

love all

[Alex-Anderson]

I will maintain that the idea of God as a judgemental human-like entity sounds ridiculous though.

I completely agree. I think most of these responses imply a prejudice doctrine of some sort or another that contradicts the very nature of what is initially trying to be outlined by the suggestion of a god.

[Alex-Anderson]

Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing

and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas!

good luck

love all

This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.

I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.

[Alex-Anderson]

Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing

and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas!

good luck

love all

This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.

I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.

[Fresco]

Death is just somthing that occurs naturally and for all we know, it really is the end.

By the way, I obviously don't understand many of the things you talk about so why don't you enlighten me. What is this "programming" and "energy" you speak of? I'm very much a man of science so fire away on this "energy"

Are you sure you're in the right forum?? 

[Summerlander]

Absolutely Alex. In fact I'd also like to say that this stuff about different planes that only some can project to and others can't sounds like hooey to me. I have been projecting since 2008 and I feel that whether the experience is pleasant or terrifying, it all happens in the realm of thoughts or the metaphysical (if it's not a here-now physical reality projection).

We humans tend to catagorise everything when in fact this is only an anthropological attribute. It all depends on your state of mind. I have experienced hellish world constructs as well as summerland-like ones - the latter having such an impact on me that my name had to be "Summerlander"!LOL!

But I won't reject the possibility that serotonin had something to do with the intense feeling that such experiences conveyed.

I have also experienced states where I temporarily lost all logic and memory whilst observing imagery that should have made sense to me if I was in the normal state of consciousness but it didn't. I felt extremely peaceful in that "emptiness" of mind and when I finally came to I was amazed at how quickly the mind can forget, say, what an apple is and quickly it can switch back and remember.

What I personally got from this is that all concepts we subscribe to are illusions (even the notion of god) and the mind in its pure form is somewhat empty.

By the way, you will find my journal in astral viewers. I'm a mod there and you are all welcome to join. We as a staff tend to have a more pragmatic approach when it comes to these discussions and we discard New Age belief systems as they are pure conjecture. There no liwer or higher astrals.

[Xanth]

Are you sure you're in the right forum?? 

He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.

For all we know, it really could be the end.  We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. 

[ether]

This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.

I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.

nothing dangerous for some
i dont tell of "a" experience and or theory
only what is fact
otherwise i'll loose my job
you would'nt want that ...would ya...

good luck

love all

[Killa Rican]

He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.

For all we know, it really could be the end.  We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*.  

I dont see it that way. When it comes to death or unconsiousness, death itself  IS timeless. 3 seconds can be the same as billions and billions of years.

What about Oblivion? If one is purely materialistic then they have to accept the viewpoint that we were technically 'dead' for a long(infinite) period of 'time' before we were born, and it will be the same process of life and death all over again after our physical body 'dies'. But that's my viewpoint anyways it seems pretty obvious to me what happens after we die.  

Oblivion doesnt last long does it? 

Oh and to the main discussion.. Why does it matter if a God exists or not? ^ ^

[Fresco]

He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.

For all we know, it really could be the end.  We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. 

I guess we dont know anything for sure, but I think there's enough evidence now to strongly believe we dont die

[Summerlander]

Sure, as a projector myself I believe there is an afterlife. Especially when through certain experiences I obtained info from dead people and this info checked out. I can only "prove" this to myself though because the sceptic will say that I'm either lying or it was an amazing coincidence.

But just because there is an afterlife, it doesn't mean that a god exists also...

I even opened a topic on AVers entitled there is an afterlife but I was careful to not claim to know for sure. My argument was that the mind is always active and it is difficult to not think of anything, so, oblivion doesn't last as consciousness has a tendency to rise to the surface and experience. I think the emptiness allows room for ideas or something like that...

Anyway, this is about whether god exists and not the afterlife. Personally I wouldn't even mix OOBEs with religion as I think that the metaphysical realm is a frequency which is part of the physical but not yet detected by science - possibly something existent beyond the ultrasonic frequency that our pineals tap into. After all, piezoelectric calcite crystals were found in this elusive gland and telecommunication companies are investing on this type of research in order to learn more.

[Killa Rican]

I agree, that just because in the case *IF* there is an afterlife, it doesnt 'prove' of a deity. Because everything that exists(Supernatural or not) is already part of the natural order of things from a Meta-physical Naturalist Viewpoint.  

[Alex-Anderson]

Absolutely Alex. In fact I'd also like to say that this stuff about different planes that only some can project to and others can't sounds like hooey to me. I have been projecting since 2008 and I feel that whether the experience is pleasant or terrifying, it all happens in the realm of thoughts or the metaphysical (if it's not a here-now physical reality projection).

Summerlander - completely agree with you - (havent quoted your whole response but nicely stated).

[Summerlander]

Yes, Alex and Rican, in fact you might even flip the coin and say that the physical is a dreamworld lower on vibrations and more settle but made of the same stuff nonetheless.

In dreams, we often find that when we look at something, look away and look back, that something is different or the scenery has somehow changed...as though observation had something to do with it!!

In the physical, the same thing happens but on a subatomic level where probabilities collapse - so tiny that it goes unnoticed and is seemingly irrelevant to the macrocosm. The 'macro-level' of the dreamworld behaves like the quantum level of the physical world. The theory goes that it is a frequency that our consciousness can ride on where the 'stuff' it's made of vibrates more violently.

I've also made an important observation after having projected to the metaphysical...everything is made of thought, and I mean everything! Even the sense of space or distance. That is a thought too and irrelevant to physical realm distance. I think of astral projections as "quantum leaps" of consciousness where we literally go AWOL from this reality temporarily. What is perceived to be a 2D image like a painting in the "astral plane" can be explored as a 3D construct if one decides to plunge into it.

But does it end there? No. I am also suspecting that astral projection opens up the doors of telepathy and precognition, this based on experience - but I won't claim anything - just keep exploring from a fresh perspective free of preconceived ideas. And even if OOBEs enable ESP, it still doesn't mean that there is a God behind it! LOL!

[Fresco]

I agree, that just because in the case *IF* there is an afterlife, it doesnt 'prove' of a deity

It doesnt 'disprove' it either though

[Killa Rican]

It doesnt 'disprove' it either though

I understand the mindset your coming from that "If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound?", But even so there is still no ground to assume there is a God in the first place. You know the argument "Absence of evidence is not Evidence of absence" and such.

The Word 'God' itself has no meaning to me. The way i see it is, Even if Science one day demonstrates that a God did NOT create the universe(Like what Hawking is attempting), then whatever did 'start' the universe people will call THAT 'God' anyways.

[Summerlander]

I personally think we are the "deities" who had infinite perception prior to being born. Once born, this state of mind was narrowed down to a finite point. This would explain why certain psychedelics like psilocybin can give us the epiphany experience or the sensation that we already know something about existence.

I also think your Kepple was on the right track. We as a consciousness created everything.

In Hinduism, there are three main aspects of god - the trimurti:

Shiva - Destroyer
Vishnu - Preserver
Brahma - Creator

They all exist within Brahman, the infinite or the canvas of existence. The three deities only represent forces of nature to me and are not "blue sentient beings" as they are generally depicted.