Final Death?

[El-Bortukali]

So,i was thinking.is it possible for a soul/spirit/ghost,whatever,to commit Spiritual suicide? that is to end ones Spiritual Immortality?
can a powerful spirit kill another weaker spirit,or the 'source'is the only one with sufficient power to destroy a soul?
or the only way to meet final death is by asking the source to kill it?

thanks for the responses  

[Greenrat]

so is it possible for a soul to die? interesting idea, i think maybe it could be converted but not die, tbh honest would you want to?!??!?!??!?!
 would you really like to stop existing?

[AndrewTheSinger]

hehehe if you didn't exist then it wouldn't matter if you liked it or not  

[Stookie]

lol

[El-Bortukali]

so is it possible for a soul to die? interesting idea, i think maybe it could be converted but not die, tbh honest would you want to?!??!?!??!?!
 would you really like to stop existing?

 Andrew.

I'm just curious about free will.
i see people talk allot about free will.so it got me thinking.
what is real free will but the ability to decide between living forever or final,everlasting death.

and converted in what way? and into what?

[loppoppy]

maybe at the point of death or in the extreme event of astral projection, a "negs" as they are called here may be able to convert you to be one of them. This of course would only happen if your spiritual self would pose a threat the negs in question which would need a hell of alot of power to change the essence of your soul. A near impossible occurrence indeed.

also it is possible if you have lead a good enough life, to choose to return to the source and have your soul totally broken down and remade anew with no record of karma or previous life. This also would change the essence of your soul.

Supposedly it is possible to have your soul broken down and not be remade thereby you are wiped from existence. But still a new soul would be made in replacement to the obliterated one.

[El-Bortukali]

Ah hope is  rising up withing my heart !

[Greenrat]

Supposedly it is possible to have your soul broken down and not be remade thereby you are wiped from existence. But still a new soul would be made in replacement to the obliterated one.

sketchy idea there...
i think non-existence is the highest state of being. the goal of life.
this whole game is about breaking down ones individual soul.

[El-Bortukali]

Supposedly it is possible to have your soul broken down and not be remade thereby you are wiped from existence. But still a new soul would be made in replacement to the obliterated one.

sketchy idea there...
i think non-existence is the highest state of being. the goal of life.
.

I agree with you 100%

[MisterJingo]

Supposedly it is possible to have your soul broken down and not be remade thereby you are wiped from existence. But still a new soul would be made in replacement to the obliterated one.

sketchy idea there...
i think non-existence is the highest state of being. the goal of life.
this whole game is about breaking down ones individual soul.

I agree with you to the extent that I cannot see a difference between 'returning to the source' which is usually the ultimate goal of most peoples spiritual philosophies, and oblivion of self.
If i'm honest the idea of obivion is at least as scary as the idea of living for eternity.

[El-Bortukali]

the idea of oblivion brings me unimaginable joy,while the idea of living forever causes me pain and stress.

[Donal]

If the source is all consciousness, then wouldn't you returning to the source imply that you have just achieved the highest state of consciousness, and thus not cease to exist, you'd just be consciousness itself?

Also, the idea of "living forever", this slogan is attached to time-space terms, in the afterlife there is so such thing as pain and stress, these are all human biological feelings.

[El-Bortukali]

you mean,i'd become 'god' himself? doesn't appeal to me.

[MisterJingo]

If the source is all consciousness, then wouldn't you returning to the source imply that you have just achieved the highest state of consciousness, and thus not cease to exist, you'd just be consciousness itself?

The individual which is you (ego), would be gone. That is the equivalent of oblivion. Without individual awareness to reflect on your condition and state, there is nothing (to the individual). Consciousness might survive on the greatest scale, but perhaps it is as Castaneda said, that we are simply food for the Eagle. Monroe's experience seemed to indirectly reflect this; his experience of the aperture and people gaining their parts as gifts for whatever lay beyond the aperture, was remarkably similar to Castaneda idea of us bloating ourselves with experience and knowledge to be devoured by the source.

Also, the idea of "living forever", this slogan is attached to time-space terms, in the afterlife there is so such thing as pain and stress, these are all human biological feelings.

I like the idea of there being no pain and stress, but this doesn't explain negs, demons, hells, karma etc. People might say the negative emotions experienced from the aforementioned are illusion, but if illusion causes the same pain and distress as their real counterparts, that doesn't help much . I wonder why only the negative things are considered illusion and not the good things too – although I would bet because the good things 'feel' better .

[El-Bortukali]

i'd say it's all an illusion created by 'leech' entities to suck off the knowledge we gain trough sveral lifetimes.

[Greenrat]

you mean,i'd become 'god' himself? doesn't appeal to me.

i think god is an overused term and made to seem more abstract than it needs to be.
everything is god and god is everything so yes you'd become everything, but more like the place from which anything is possible.

i beleive once we realise ourself on "gods" level, we'll realise how simple it was all along.

[Stookie]

I like the idea of there being no pain and stress, but this doesn't explain negs, demons, hells, karma etc. People might say the negative emotions experienced from the aforementioned are illusion, but if illusion causes the same pain and distress as their real counterparts, that doesn't help much . I wonder why only the negative things are considered illusion and not the good things too – although I would bet because the good things 'feel' better .

Pain and stress are not caused by outside things, but our own perspective and feelings of the outside things. This also works with good emotions. And just like it's not good to sulk and feel self pity, it can be easy to be overly-happy and excited about things. That's when people can become materialistic and selfish, only caring about their own happiness.

Our emotions aren't "us", but part of our concepts attached to perception. I don't think it's good to suppress any emotions, but understand what actually causes them and change that. It is possible.

[El-Bortukali]

of course it is.ever heard of pills?

[MisterJingo]

Pain and stress are not caused by outside things, but our own perspective and feelings of the outside things.

Oh, I know this . To use a quote:

It is as if a man is hit by one arrow, and then by a second arrow; he feels the pain of two arrows. So it is with the untrained layman; when touched by a painful bodily feeling, he experiences two kinds of feeling, a bodily one and a mental one. But the well-trained disciple, when touched by a painful bodily feeling, weeps not. He feels only one kind of feeling: a bodily one, not a mental one. It is as if a man is hit by one arrow, but not by a second arrow; he feels the pain of one arrow only. So it is with the well-trained disciple; when touched by a painful bodily feeling, he feels but one feeling, bodily pain only.

But in the physical plane, it seems that the source of the pain could be 'external' to ourselves, but we have the choice of how we respond to it internally.

This also works with good emotions. And just like it's not good to sulk and feel self pity, it can be easy to be overly-happy and excited about things. That's when people can become materialistic and selfish, only caring about their own happiness.

Our emotions aren't "us", but part of our concepts attached to perception. I don't think it's good to suppress any emotions, but understand what actually causes them and change that. It is possible.

I agree with the above too. I guess my point was that it is not as simple as acknowledging pain and hurt are internally generated, they don't go away with such a realisation. Also, if someone has no concepts of such things, if caught in a world of pain (in the physical or astral), the fact that it might be an illusion would bring them no comfort.
I personally think that ultimately there is no 'good' or 'bad', just personal interpretation of (indifferent) events based upon currently held belief systems. Although it does seem that the brain is wired to create discomfort (pain) under certain conditions.

[El-Bortukali]

so,happiness,joy,etc they are illusions such as pain,despair etc?

[loppoppy]

forgive me for replying late to a previous question. and also forgive me for not being clear enough. Only someone who has attained such a high level of consciousness has the right to choose existence or not...and by saying "wiped from existence" I mean totally no consciousness is left your totally gone.

If every single emotion was illusion then in the afterlife you would feel them no more. I heard that the higher planes and the afterlife were filled with peace, love and contentment, if I'm not mistaken they are emotions.

[MisterJingo]

If every single emotion was illusion then in the afterlife you would feel them no more. I heard that the higher planes and the afterlife were filled with peace, love and contentment, if I'm not mistaken they are emotions.

This was the point of my question . Regardless of emotions being illusions or not, perhaps the afterlife is filled with the 'good' emotions simply because they are 'good'. Perhaps we haven't moved past the belief systems of emotions in our explorations, so we still maintain this idea of love and goodness permeating everything. But, if we moved passed the human perspective areas, things would be different (such as experiencing emotions we have no human-perception of).

Something we should consider is that firstly, the views we have of the afterlife and spiritual planes are pretty much human-centric. Humans are an absolutely minute part of the totality of creation. What if all the explorers and spiritual gurus have simply been exploring the spiritual planes closest to our own (human) perspective? What of those other countless races and sentient forms in and outside of the physical (and possible countless other physical universes)? Each of these would have their own astral locales, heavens, hells and philosophies of creation.

[loppoppy]

well now that is a pickle. Even if someone had reached these higher planes of existence outside the comprehension of the physical mind, they would still not be able to explain such a thing to those around them. The only way to find out the answer is to experience it yourself.

You are correct it is shocking how small humans are in the scale of things which are not even on a scale as they are endless...:S.

Just imagine how spectacular it would be to not only extend yourself beyond the comprehension of mankind, but also be able to travel to those other countless planes beyond the comprehension of even the highest life form. Now thats farfetched.

[El-Bortukali]

forgive me for replying late to a previous question. and also forgive me for not being clear enough. Only someone who has attained such a high level of consciousness has the right to choose existence or not...and by saying "wiped from existence" I mean totally no consciousness is left your totally gone.

If every single emotion was illusion then in the afterlife you would feel them no more. I heard that the higher planes and the afterlife were filled with peace, love and contentment, if I'm not mistaken they are emotions.

why  does that it has to do with 'the right'? before that 'transformation'  don't have the power to do it?
and why can  i only die after achieving that status?
and what powers,abilities,etc do  i gain if i achieve that state?

[loppoppy]

because i think the ultimate meaning of life is to reach this level of conciousness, only once this has been achieved can you just stop existing if that is your choice. We are bound to this world until we can break free from it either through ascention or death, but only with ascention have we proven that we have outgrown the physical world entirely and therefore have the choice of how we wish to exist.

your next question was what powers or abilities would you gain. With ascention and enlightenment comes the ultimate understanding and knowledge of everything around you. Also your mind will no longer interfere with your actions or with anything that the mind first thought as impossible. What you could do is only limited by your imagination or the right energies needed to complete certain tasks. All it would take is time and training.