How to shed the junk

[Frank]

Halfphased: I can say that because there are major differences in our respective circumstances. When I say I feel drained from all the negativity, it is from being bombarded by the collective negativity from large numbers of the typical kinds of people who in big towns and cities.

I'm not talking here about any one-on-one involvement.

This collective force is all around you in the ether. It's like a huge grey cloud that hangs over these places. It's depressing and debilitating and is impossible to withstand for any real length of time. Which is why, as I told you, I would work in the city for as little time as I had to. Then I would drive to the countryside, go for long walks, etc. Later on, when I started earning a little more, I would stay overnight on the Friday and Saturday in a little country cottage I bought for that purpose. But getting upset over all these one-on-one involvements like you do, is something completely different.

I have met quite a number of people who escaped the rat-race and who now live a humble life in peace and harmony with nature. And they all say basically the same thing as me. So I know I'm not the only one who is thinking this way. Problem is, to survive in a rat-race environment a person has to shut down their awareness to the point where they stop becoming human. They lose all real sense of compassion, for example. Something which is so widespread it's unreal. Yet no-one sees it. Well, apart from an ever so tiny minority.

When your sense of compassion is lost, you subsequently lose the ability to see your own circumstances in their true light. This condition leads a person into becoming more and more self-obsessed; together with all the subsequent huge ego attachment. People normally never recover from this condition within the course of their current physical life. Because it just envelops them completely, and screws their thinking totally. So they have to become incarnate, usually, over and over again.

As I respectfully suggested in my other post, you really need to get out more and learn a little about the wider world. See how other people are suffering; caught up as Jouni has also pointed out in areas where food is short, homelessness is rife, and bullets decide the difference between life and death.

If you feel helping people out and bringing joy to their lives is your thing, that is an admirable thing to think. So don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking that. But just thinking about it isn't going to do anything.

Also, in all seriousness, I would suggest you redirect your efforts toward those people in the world who really need it the most. Doing that I am sure will bring more joy and satisfaction in your life than you can imagine right now.

Yours,
Frank

[kiauma]

The pain of the world certainly can be overwhelming Frank, and certainly we should do what we can.  But, I don't know if really the answer is to tune into all the negative energy.

Just how would you define your relationship to existance?   What meaning do you find in your life?  

Simply Existance itself is radiant.  I feel that even as we live in the middle of the unconsciousness of civilization, we should center ourselves in the radiance of awareness.

[Frank]

Kiauma: Yes, people should do what they can. Because the situation is pretty dire. Problem is they don't. And it's not a question of me "tuning in" to negative energy. Spiritual Development is a question of being aware and seeing the reality; and of having a life that focuses on issues that are meaningful in the wider scheme of things.

It's all very well you thinking about centring yourself in the "radiance of awareness" (whatever that happens to mean). But it's no use telling me, you go try telling that to some mother whose child has just died through not having the bare necessities of life like ordinary clean water. Better hope she doesn't have a gun to hand.

Yours,
Frank

[daem0n]

yes, people should do what they can, but first we have to be immune to the disease, in order to work against it, if you are not truly free how can you help others, doctors can't heal their relatives becouse of emotional involvement, the same here

anyone remembers how it was like to live in rat race, separeted from everyone, alone, distrusting, suffering for me it wasn't that long and i clearly remember it (not that i still suffer, moved forward)

no hope, and then some religion..., no, that's not it, and at last some f***ing shining golden rope, uff, got out of it, now work with the trauma and in the end become immune

now, do we got out of that ourselves ??, partly, willing and hoping, but we found someone, some teachings that allowed us to understand out situation, and change it in right way (no tapestry here )
there are almost no people that got out of it by themselves exclusively

and now think about your society, look how miserable they are, surely, they would want to change it, but.....

they never had a chance !!!
it wasn't there only more illusions

taking it into account, how do you know that the chance will be offered to you in next life ??
you don't

that's why you must help yourself, then others, and do it NOW

frank choose quarantine, that's fine with him
others may choose to work with disease and therefore get immune

you have plenty of time bla bla bla, if you don't solve your problems you will be obliged to return here, and you don't know your time,you may feel that you have but.. it's only a feeling

how many lifetimes can pass until you will be given another chance ??

think about it

don't think that you are special, have special mission and surely, when you will be reborn, eveything will fall into place, that's ego knocking at the back door, ups, maybe i'm not that briliant ...

[halfphased]

Frank, I take your points and I understand them.  However, your critque of me is lacking understanding of who I am and how I think.  I am very very very social concious.  As I have statted earlier, I have been seeing the world in a similar way as you do for many years now.  I am repeatedly brought to tears over the state of the world.  But for the most part I try not to let myself get caught up in it and for the most part I am successful.  I am able to watch the things around me and not be drawn in by them but still understand them and see their effects, etc.  My mind is as far out of the rat race as it possibly can be and still be in it.  My only concearn career wise is to make a little money to get through the rest of college and then I will either teach, join peace core, teach yoga, or travel.  And for that matter I pretty much am happy to let things happen as they will.  Not to say I'm not trying to set a heading...  the heading is set and I am certain i will get to where I am going and as far as the details are concered they will form in time.

And after that brash defense of my wimpering ego, aye you are right and I have thought this for awhile that I should be focusing more on helping people who really need it.  I guess there is a bit of the last of my fear left down that avenue as to do that I would pretty much have to completely let go of worrying about my financial situation.  Hrm...  

But i still think that your saying our situations are different may not be so accurate.  How big is the collective human consciousness campared to the vastness of the universe.  If you were to set me, and the collective human consciousness next to the universe I'm pretty sure I and it would be pretty undistinquishable.  So, what scale do you want to use and ultimately are there really any such things?   And if I am sensitive in the one to one situation then deffinetely I am sensitive to this one to many situation.  And maybe when someone is focussing their dissatifaction at me they are tapping into that dissatisfaction vibe from the collective human consciouness...  I don't know i'm just wandering around trying to defend myself probably  how silly I'm sorry  have a nice day

[kiauma]

There is much pain and injustice in the world - but the world is far more than just pain and injustice.   If I say this does it make me spiritually unconscious?  Or is it more conscious to also acknowledge the good in the world?

The radiance of Being has been felt by anyone who is serious about meditation.  To clear the mind to feel the radiance of Being is the entire point of meditation.

Yes, suffering is rampant.  Buddhism teaches, however, that while pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.  

I don't know Frank, I feel you are almost talking down to me, referring me to the pain of another to tell me to do what I can - but what do you do?  Haven't you removed yourself from humanity as much as you are able?  Do I detect any irony in this?

I think the New Age impetus to go fix the world is a big guilt trip.  I am sure there are those who have the call and the ability to help, but frankly most people have a hard time just keeping their own head above water.   Should we abandon our families, our homes, to rush to take care of a situation that is even worse than the one we can hardly maintain here??

The primary thing that causes pain in the world is unconsciousness.  That is what is at the root of greed, of avarice, of incompetence, and of unrealistic demands - of living through the identity of the ego.

Yes, we should do all that we can, but we have to start eliminating the pain of the world by eliminating ours, first.

[Frank]

It's not what you say in the beginning of your post, IMO, that makes you spiritually unconscious... it's what you say in the last line. And who said I have removed myself from humanity? I only ever removed myself from the rat-race. Since doing so I now feel more human than I ever have.

Hearing what you say about what Buddhism teaches a person makes me fortunate I'm not one of them. Suffering is optional? Oh right, so the billions of animals that are raised every year in some of the most inhumane conditions and slaughtered causing them horrendous pain and suffering: all that's optional for them is it?

Then there are all the children dying of starvation, but that's just more "optional" stuff to you I suppose. And then when one of these kids accidentaly steps on a land mine, which tens of thousands of them do every year, and gets horribly maimed (or dies) in the process, they choose to do that? And anyone that desires to help is just on a guilt-trip...

Gosh, I am truly thankful I'm not a buddhist.

Yours,
Frank

[kiauma]

Perhaps you are right Frank.  

Perhaps also you should look closer at how the Buddhists differentiate between pain and suffering, and how they recommend dealling with each before you condemn them.

[kiauma]

Rereading my post Frank, I apologise.  I state quite clearly my defensiveness, and it was uncalled for.  I hope you can forgive me.

quote:It's not what you say in the beginning of your post, IMO, that makes you spiritually unconscious... it's what you say in the last line. And who said I have removed myself from humanity? I only ever removed myself from the rat-race. Since doing so I now feel more human than I ever have.

I will point out though, that it sounds here to me like takeing care of your pain, by moving to the country, was exactly what you did.   No one can help someone else, who cannot help themselves.  That was my real point, and I wish I had kept it to that, throughout.

Again, my apologies.

[daem0n]

not everyone can do it frank, but becouse we can do it now, we should

it's not about going to africa and teaching, it's about changing what we can, the first being ourselves

i can't do anything to help starving, blowed up, but i can affect people around me, and if they understand they will teach people around them ... and so on ...

suffering is optional for some of us ..., noone said that for all of us, and only humans can reach enlightment, and only some of them can understand the teachings, and only some of them are willing to do it, and only some them will have the strenght to carry on, and only some of them will succeed...

[narfellus]

For anyone just reading the end of this thread, i suggest start from the beginning and go through it. It is really very good, with highly applicable suggestions for improving your life/outlook/peace of mind. Great stuff here really. thanks everyone for sharing.

[Frank]

daem0n: You make some good points, yes, it is about changing what we can and the first is ourselves which I accept. After all, if you can't do it yourself then you can't teach it to others; and there are many practical ways a person can make a good start which I detailed in my early posts to this thread. Thing is, if the only people suffering were a relatively small minority who refused to pay heed then so what. The planet could easily encompass that. But what really gets to me is the suffering that is caused to the billions of innocent creatures, all of whom have just as much right to a natural life as we have.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

Frank_

There is a problem with applying your suggestions.
I don't think anyone here seriously disagrees with where you are coming from, but it is not very easy for people to opt out, at least to the degree that you have the luxury to do so, in your comfortable suroundings in Nice (a place which is not for those who are financially challenged I might add).
For one, most people need a certain amount of cash in order to function, or to be able to put this new lifestyle into effect.

For example, while I would love to retreat to a simple lifestyle in the country and grow my own stuff etc, this requires a good deal of money. you yourself have worked for many years, allowing you to 'retire' to the country in this way. However, most of us do not have that luxury, at least not yet.

The majority of us are still struggling to make ends meet, and unfortunatly, that means being in the 'rat race' to a certain extent.
In effect i think you are being overly critical of many people here who attempt to balance both lifestyles, often with great difficulty.
So i would say, do not be so quick to make sweeping statements about how we conduct our lives; sometimes, circumstances are a little more complicated than being 'obsessed with materialism'.

Regards,
Douglas

[Frank]

Douglas: thank you for pointing that out and I do agree to a large extent as I did say in my very first post, and I quote: "This may sound a little extreme to some, but I've been at this a long time so I've learnt a lot; and it's impossible for me to condense 20-odd years of learning into a paragraph or two without sounding extreme."

I'm sorry if I have sounded overly critical and I do understand the difficulties presented when it comes to balancing both lifestyles; as it is something I have done for quite a few years, and I know only too well what it is like to be in the rat-race to a certain extent: sort of half in and half out. It's not an easy balancing act to perform for years on end, but I suppose I think of difficulties as more of a challenge than most people. Which is why I have difficulty agreeing with you on the money aspect.

I know only too well what it is like to be broke. But it just made me even more determined. And as a human race there are tremendous challenges ahead of us, which makes me determined all the more. And I think, gosh, if only people would realise the seriousness and the gravity of the problems we are set to face. But it is a fact that most people are more interested in what's going on in Eastenders and Coronation Street than affairs of the planet.

Though I do take your point.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

But it is a fact that most people are more interested in what's going on in Eastenders and Coronation Street than affairs of the planet.


Now THAT is something which I think we ALL agree on!


A couple of years ago I was looking at different options for living outside of the city or at least in a less stressful environment.
Where I live in Edinburgh, there is a Buddhist monastery to the south, in nice settings in the countryside; the monks spend their days meditating and growing their own crops and so on; people were free to come and stay there, 'payment' being in the form of helping out and becoming part of the community.

it sounded ideal; unfortunately, in all my enthusiasm I forgot that Buddhism, while containing a good deal more sensible ideas than many other mainstream religions imo, was still that: a mainstream religion, and as such I would be required to partake of all their prayers, meditations and other traditions.
I would be quite happy to help out in the running of the place, growing crops etc, as long as I could be left to practice my own interests (astral projection/exploration) in my spare time, but alas! This didn't appear to be permitted!

I have come to the conclusion that the only way to do this is to 'bite the bullet' (or at least part of the bullet!) and partake of the rat race for a few years of my life, as long as it takes to get the required mullah to allow me to leave for somewhere less stressful, but for this duration to never lose sight of my objective and to practice my ap skills as often as possible, getting into a routine so that I never lose sight of 'the real world' ie the bigger picture.

Then in the future, I can have the assets with which to live a simpler more stress-free life somewhere else, where I can really get on with my own interests and developments.
I think this is possible since I do not feel I am obsessed with 'keeping up with the Jones's' like some other people, therefore I am not bothered about competing with my peers and climbing up the property ladder, getting the latest car etc, these things don't mean much to me; I am perfectly happy with functional things that get the job done, for this reason, earning enough to get the lifestyle I want is NOT unfeasible, since I have no interest in a Porsche, or a huge 8 bedroom full detached villa etc etc.

For this reason, some of my friends find this amusing and shake their heads, although I have noticed that they also show a certain sense of admiration as well, as if 'I respect those who can do that'; well, anyone can if they really want to, which is I think what this thread has been about.

The key is to basically not be bothered about the 8 bedroom detached and the Porsche, will it make you happy? If not then forget about it, you will feel better for it; although I understand only to well that peer pressure is very powerful, you have to be able to resist it!

btw living in the city does have its benefits sometimes; it reminds you of what you are trying to rise above!
Every time I walk along the road and see someone in their Porsche revving their engine and shouting obscenities at the person in front because they took a fraction of a second too long in moving off, I thank the gods that I don't have the same mindset as that guy!
What a sad, horrible world view he has.

Anyway, enough rambling for now, I'm sure everyone has been sent to sleep, I know I have!

Regards,
Douglas  

[jilola]

You know, about this rat race.

There is a diffrence between the rat race when you see success or faiure in it as a reflection on your self and the rat race when you see it as a toll to make ends meet but only vest in it an instrumental value.
I'd suggest everyone to take a look at why they are participate, not how or what the race apparently says about them. For many the quest for money, success, fame and ego boost has taken the driver's seat without it even registering in our consciousness's(sp?). This usurping of the core self by the rampant ego is exactly (imho) what is behind most, if not all, of the wrong doing, war, famine, general and specific suffering and pain in the world. Why are we so hung up on success as measured by bits of paper and by how many people want to stalk us on the street? Who the heck are we, really?

This is why I suggested earlier in the thread that to overcome suffering in many/most cases requires one to figure out what exactly defines who they are.  It doesn't solve all problems and obviously not the ones faced by the masses of people in the third world. But since the nations and inhabitants therein are the ones with the wherewithall to relieve and even end the unnecesaary suffering the onus to change and redefine the value systems is on thoose very people in the first world (that's us) countries.
We need to figure out what's important and who we are and then help those around us to do the same because I fear the only way to a global change of values is by example to those who are most stuck in the ego/greed trip.

One of the Zen Buddhist 4 Great Vows is to save the ten thousand sentient beings. But how does one save ten thousand beings? Save yourself first, then by example and compassionate guidance the rest. No voodoo, no mumbo-jumbo. You canät save a drowing man if you yourself are drowning.

this ends the flash of the blindingly obvious []

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[BlackTalon]

I was reading through some of the other threads and I found this quote and is pretty much what I was getting at with the starting of this thread. Being able to go out into the world fresh each day without the old clutter or negative associations you might have had to a previous event.

"
My old teacher back in the 70's taught me to prepare as if naked to go out and experience... meaning that we must not have any pre-conceived notions on anything. She was correct about that.

This is also true when reading the recorded words of the man Jesus, for then we can see the simplicity and beauty of his meanings, without the clutter of our own thoughts about it. "

I thought about this on my way home yesterday...I walked by this bakery and could smell the aroma as they were making bread...thinking back as a kid, how i'd love that smell and go into the store with a smile on my face just happy in the experience....now it's so difference theres no magic there it's just....it's too tough to explain really it's alot of things, assumptions,...the experience just seems like it's behind a bunch of clutter, and prevents me from really experiencing things as how they are.

[Kenneth]

Hi BlackTalon,

Now you are REALLY on the "right track", if anything like that exists [] ...

Your sentence about smelling the aroma, and the thoughts about how we "loose" that child-like "Here and Now" in the "clouds of our own unfinished business of everyday life."

So to cut to the chase i'd like to learn how to shed off some of this baggage that i'd gained over the years so I can't live in a world without having to judge myself or others....and my question is what is the best way to go about this? I do meditate from time to time but i'm wondering if I should be concentrating on my thoughts and emotions or if theres some special techniques for this.

To my experience, yes - there IS a "special technique" for this - and that is to experience (being aware) of that in you, that is keeping you from fully enjoying the aroma of their breadmaking! ... And to do that to a degree, that it in the end you CHOOSE to release the ties that keep it secured inside you, or you loose your "attachment" to it, and are able to see it (and experience it) for what it really is!

And please - don't repeat the same error I have made on numerous occations(and still do *LOL*) - to look for the answer with your mind, if the problem is located in your feelings.

I have alowed my self to "read between the lines" in your post, and I sincerely hope, that that is OK with you!

now it's so difference theres no magic there it's just....it's too tough to explain really it's alot of things, assumptions

...The EXACT moment when you finished typing the "just", and started with the "....", my guess would be, that you WERE in that feeling / state of mind, that is actually keeping you away from being able to
smell the aroma!

Then as you started to type "it's too tough..." you moved FROM that feeling (your emotional body), and into your Mind (your Mind-body). ("Body" in this context is just to let you know, that you HAVE the option of observing and working with them as well, the same way you work with your physical body to get in better shape).

So - what does this little bit of info tell you? ... Well, to me that is HOPE ... A SOLLUTION - that it is a possibility to DO something about that "feeling" that (If you are anything like me) I would guess feels like it "captures" you in a very little and very "I do NOT like it in here" way? ... And you push it away, or more correctly - you "move away" from it, and into your Mind - sort of "hide" in your thoughts. (I know I did that []).

So what options do you have ? .... Well, as I see it (Based on VERY personal experience!!!), you can:

- KEEP MOVING AWAY from that feeling, and do that for the rest of your life.... And my experience with this option is, that it WILL hunt you down, and follow you for the rest of your life ....

- KEEP PUSHING IT DOWN. Well, if that is your choise, my experience is, that it WILL "pop up" again each and every time you come in touch with a situation that produces the same feeling, or anything resembling it.

- KEEP WISHING FOR IT TO GO AWAY ... Well, to my experience (And I have been there too [B)]), that is just another "flavour" of the MOVING AWAY option. You just hide in your fantasy instead of in your mind...

So, what is missing in these options? .... Well, the "path" that I have chosen for my self now, is to:

- IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM, JOIN THEM!!! .... Meaning I try to "learn" the feeling or state of mind to a degree, where I CAN CHOOSE if I want to be there or not - and at that point, it changes from a "NO-GO" zone (Unconciousnes), to a "THAT'S ME TOO!!" (Conscious) sort of state.

You might ask "What is the difference between now and previously, where I have been there for so long, and nothing happened? ... Why would you want me to "go in there" again, when I just recently have been able to "free" my self from that feeling? ...."

Good question! ... The difference is, that you CONCIOUSLY Move into the feeling!! ... It is YOU that chooses to "face" that feeling, and NOT the feeling that is trying to capture YOU! .... (And believe me I know - this IS like facing your worst enemy on a dark, rainy and stormfull night!!! - you DO get your "hands dirty" - you DO have to "Pull yourself together" - again and again...

And you DO have to make that ONE cruisial decission .... that THIS TIME I WILL FACE THAT FEELING - I WILL NOT TURN MY FACE AWAY AGAIN!!!"

This is the process of "turning led to gold" ... EACH AND EVERY TIME you "face your dark side" with awareness and courage, with the knowledge, that EVERYTHING you sence, feel and think (and EVERY reaction that might occur) MIGHT be part of that "dark" side... You win a little bit of yourself back - you become more "alive" again. This is like slicing cheese - you don't actually FEEL like you "win" anything while you are in it - but afterwards, AFTER the tears are shed, AFTER the rage has been there, you KNOW ... you KNOW in the deepest part of your being, that YOU HAVE WON ... that YOU are on the path to being HUMAN again - the path to being COMPLETE again ....On the path to finding your TRUE self.


(THIS exact text has been MY catharsis too - my girlfriend came up here, asking what I was doing - and I read her this text. I got about 5 words into the text, and then I felt my tears beginning to run down my cheeks, and a strong feeling spreading out from my throat. I CHOSE to stay in it (ME - that have only cried one or two times in my adult life - actually CRIED REAL TEARS ... and CHOSE to stay in it ... IT IS MY CHOISE TO FEEL THIS THROUGH !!!! ..... (And I am crying again now [] - and laughing too - crying and laughing AT THE SAME TIME !!! ....... reading this out loud for my self - alowing my countious self to feel what this text - what I am writing RIGHT now - is doing to me !! ..... Stopping once in a while to FEEL what there is .... to BE AWARE of what is .... I feel sort of light-headed and dizzy right now .... I is NOT a "nice" feeling, but more like a "Am I going to faint, or what is happening ?!?? ..." this AS I AM WRITING this .....

NOW I choose to sort of "step back" a bit - to take a deap breath ... to stand up and walk around for a minute or two ....


(Okay - about 10 minutes have passed now. I got up, walked around a bit, and actually felt like I was a little drunk [:O] .... The feeling and tears (Sorrow like I haven't felt in about 25 years) came in waves, about 30 seconds sorrow, followed by the sort of peace you would find in between contractions. I cried my heart out, alternating with small laughs of relief and Thumbs up sign for my girlfriend to let her know, that I was still OK (and aware), and suddenly the dogs began to bark downstairs.

We went down there, I grabbed some juice, and suddenly I began to laugh .... and I couldn't stop laughing [] .... The relief was enourmous, it too came crashing on to me, like wawes on a surfers paradise - and after that there was ..... silence.

Silence inside like you wouldn't know - silence as if you have lived beside a jet-engine your entire life, never knew anything else, and it suddenly stopped. [:O]

As a little reflection - right before the tears and cries began, I had a choice (Not like someone speaking "You now have a choise between...", but more like the sudden choice, when the road in front of you split, and you HAVE to choose), I have had many times before in my life, but NEVER BEFORE DARED to choose - and that was to ALLOW the pressure to build, to let it fill me. Always I have chosen to turn away - to take the "easy" way out .... but not this time. FOR ONCE i chose to let it come []

Okay - I have to go and be with the love of my life, so there you have it - In all it's simplicity, with ME as an example .... MY path to my self.


Thank you, BlackTalon - for through your posts helping me into a situation, where I could "come through" my self, to get not a slice of my self back "as usual", but a whole part at once []

Thanks!!!!

[Kenneth]

Hello Everybody,

It is now about a day later, and I feel weak, empty, vulnerable, sore ... not at ALL like I have regained a major part of my self back from unconsciousnes, but more like the hangovers after a VERY wet evening [8D].

But (luckily) I have been here before - i KNOW from previous experience the process of saying "goodbye" to something in my life, that I for a very long time have build my life upon (by not consciously recognicing it). I KNOW, that this is what I feel like, when "some part" of me is dying - in order to make room for something new, something different.

You can't make an omelet without breaking the shell on the eggs.

Well, back to my headache and my dizzyness - I'm glad it's over in a couple of days, and THEN I know, I will begin to slowly learn this "new" part of me, that I have set free - slowly integrating it in my self once again...

Talk to you later - back to work now []

[BlackTalon]

I'm glad you had some release, it always feels great I know like you somehow connects to your child or true self. I cry alot, well tear up, but it usually takes music along with emotion. I remember listening to some music, thinking about my childhood, and i just started crying but smiling at the same time, i put my chair to the side and just sat on the floor....my cat came along and wanted to be pet...and for that moment...i was a child again...where all that mattered was the experience at hand. If I can accomplish this in real life on a constant basis i'll have it made...doubt i could keep a job though lol.[]...

It's funny when you mentioned like you were feeling drunk. Many times I get into a certain mood where I just open up and I write all these thoughts and emotions then when I wake up the next morning I have this feeling like "omg I hope I didnt say something stupid lastnight" lol...almost like I wasnt myself ....or maybe I was...but you know what I mean.

[halfphased]

I cry a lot too and laugh a lot also.  It is funny my laughing and crying sound so similar that people usually have to see my face to know what I am doing.  

Kenneth, *hugs* from across the seas.  I have read many many books and a countless number of web pages and you, my friend, have been able to communicate in a way I can relate too that I have not found before.

[Kenneth]

Hello BlackTalon and HalfPhased,

I cry a lot too and laugh a lot also. It is funny my laughing and crying sound so similar that people usually have to see my face to know what I am doing.

It is exactly the same experience I had the other day ... In the end, I found it very difficult to distinguish between the sorrow and the laughter. It is also there, that I get the fact, that feelings are sort of "paired" together - and that is also why I would like to get a "list" of those paired feelings, because then I can actually "see the feelings that I have chose not to see". (And THEY are what is filling a lot of room inside me - that is keeping me from reaching ME).

I'm glad you had some release, it always feels great I know like you somehow connects to your child or true self. I cry alot, well tear up, but it usually takes music along with emotion. I remember listening to some music, thinking about my childhood, and i just started crying but smiling at the same time, i put my chair to the side and just sat on the floor....my cat came along and wanted to be pet...and for that moment...i was a child again...where all that mattered was the experience at hand. If I can accomplish this in real life on a constant basis i'll have it made...doubt i could keep a job though lol....

Yes - I couldn't agree with you more, BlackTalon. The release is great (and painfull, and draining and and ...), but the fact that you IF FOR ONLY A SINGLE MOMENT were in "touch" with your inner self actually gives you your temporary "Goal-line" - gives you a "state of mind" to COMPARE all other "states of mind" with, and THAT is very, very valuable (IMHO)!! ...[]

Now you don't have to "think" you know your Inner self, or fear the Doubt if you ever are going to reach it - now you DO know your goal IS inside of you...)

Just as a little "teaser"... What will happen, once you HAVE reached that goal ? ... Where will YOU set your next "Finish-line"?) - you know in what direction you can work with yourself (You now know That state of mind), and you know WHAT tools you have to work with - Spirit, Mind, Feelings, Energy and Body.

Do you think, that THAT state is the Ultimate "Inner Self" ? ... Or is it like everything else in life, that it IS boundles, that there ALWAYS are more refining and more details showing up, if we put our awareness on it ? ...

So if you were to "pour water" down this "pipe-line" of Spirituality -> Mind -> Feelings -> Energy -> Body, (and the "rule" being: what you are aware of (and allow!) is where it can run), where would it meet resistance (inner blocks), and where would it be "pulled off course" (Inner Attractions) ? .... How much "water" would your Body eventually be getting? ...

How "Familiar" and "Confident" are you in your Physical Body, compared to i.e. your Emotional body ? ... or your Energy body ? .... And why shouldn't your Emotional body receive the same amount of Excercise your Physical body gets?

(And all these questions is actually ME lining them up for ME, but written in a letter to YOU) ....[]

That is also why I was so happy, that I actually SUCCEEDED in "going through" my catharsis - because it SHOWED me VERY clearly my different bodi's reactions (And thereby I gained a lot of NEW awareness!!!):
- The physical sensation, the tears and cries.
- The energy sensation, the "lumb" in my throat, the "moving" and "Breakthrough" of this lumb (However fast it went, I STILL caught on to it!)
- The Feelings, the sensations of them coming in wawes, how they use the Movement of Energy, and (Here I am NOT very aware yet), sort of adding a "flavour" to this energy at the same time?
- The Thoughts, the CONSTANT attempt to "pull me away" from FEELING this, by trying to "grab" my attention (and thereby moving my attention FROM the feelings. Doesn't actually matters where my attention are focused according to my Mind - just NOT on the feelings [}:)]).
- The Spiritual mind, sort of add's the "stage" on wich all this takes place. It felt like "a crowd cheering me through to the Finish-line, for a perfect 1'st place []".

...And then I can't stop but think of all the things I DIDN'T have awareness enough to, to actually be aware of - those things, that just sort of "slipped by" without me noticing!

With regards to "keeping a job" when IN that state of mind. I think, that it will not be a question of if you CAN keep a job (What I am absolutely SURE that you can - your awareness and presence will simply DEFLATE every possible Life threatening problem into just a funny little experience even before it has occured), but a question of if you WILL keep a job - If YOU can "grow" within those frames a job will eventually put on you [] ...

Kenneth, *hugs* from across the seas. I have read many many books and a countless number of web pages and you, my friend, have been able to communicate in a way I can relate too that I have not found before.

I thank you, HalfPhased - for those kind and encouraging words. They mean very much to me, that I KNOW that I am not alone in this, that there are others, that are also tumbling around here [].

[daem0n]

another thought:
"one picture says more than thousand words"

i mentioned that we should affect our surroundings, but by no means do active preaching, we start out from the point of view of our listener, like "do you like your workplace" and then "why not", small steps, frank was leaping like neo and the rest lagged behind (those who haven't are not disturbed, i hope [], that would mean that they indeed lagged behind, even if they haven't thought so[])

about two years ago i read a lot about buddhism, tried to convince people, but there were 2 problems :
1)i still had problems which buddhism should solve
2)i had no point of view how it should look like and where were we then
3)it wasn't practise, just knowledge

now i don't have to run around and try to convince anyone, my presence is enough, some people are disturbed by it, but they are the ones that have to back down, they see what it is like, and some want to listen ...

just wanted to show the situation from another view, when you know (or think you know) what to do orwhen you do it,

give example, be the active one, not the closed sarcastic "sage" in the ivory tower
on the other hand, you must know the moment, distinguish between easening the symptoms and healing, and don't get labeled as i was (the buddhist), when people could label me they felt they are back in control, he's a buddhist, he must have worked hard, it's not for me, so it is okay that he exudes tranquility and i'm suffering, becouse we are different, and above all, he's a buddhist and i'm not, oh and i forgot to mention, that he's a buddhist and i'm not ... you get it

still i'm streamer, hope you get the message

frank:
it's not fair that most of the world is suffering, billions are slaughtered, but on the other hand, when was it fair, this makes our work so much more important, we do not reclaim, but create, the seeds we planted blossom now, the seeds we plant will blossom in future, we can't just change place, it would be like neglecting/hiding from our emotions, many of you have read spiritual books (or kenneth posts, for that matter), the world is similiar to us (macro/microcosmos), although you cannot feel it clearly now, THINK when you will run out of places to hide ...

another stream, heh []
take care

[BlackTalon]

quote:Originally posted by daem0n

another thought:
"one picture says more than thousand words"

i mentioned that we should affect our surroundings, but by no means do active preaching, we start out from the point of view of our listener, like "do you like your workplace" and then "why not", small steps, frank was leaping like neo and the rest lagged behind (those who haven't are not disturbed, i hope [], that would mean that they indeed lagged behind, even if they haven't thought so[])

BT
Are you saying here that we lagg behind frank because he's looking at things in a grander scale or because his point of view of leaving the ratrace to a more solitude like life is better? I'm curious in the interest of understanding you what exactly you mean by this...i'm a bit slow sometimes

quote:
about two years ago i read a lot about buddhism, tried to convince people, but there were 2 problems :
1)i still had problems which buddhism should solve
2)i had no point of view how it should look like and where were we then
3)it wasn't practise, just knowledge

now i don't have to run around and try to convince anyone, my presence is enough, some people are disturbed by it, but they are the ones that have to back down, they see what it is like, and some want to listen ...

BT
What exactly were you trying to convince people about?

quote:
just wanted to show the situation from another view, when you know (or think you know) what to do orwhen you do it,

give example, be the active one, not the closed sarcastic "sage" in the ivory tower
on the other hand, you must know the moment, distinguish between easening the symptoms and healing, and don't get labeled as i was (the buddhist), when people could label me they felt they are back in control, he's a buddhist, he must have worked hard, it's not for me, so it is okay that he exudes tranquility and i'm suffering, becouse we are different, and above all, he's a buddhist and i'm not, oh and i forgot to mention, that he's a buddhist and i'm not ... you get it
still i'm streamer, hope you get the message

BT
I'm not sure what you mean by don't get labeled as I was. How does someone labeling you affect your growth? I know if I seen a buddhist which I have high respect for i'd probably wonder how they view the world compared to me and basically be attracted to their energy? or just the way I percieve them...peacefull.....i see what your getting at but I still don't understand the problem about how you "think" people are labeling you.

[daem0n]

from what i understood frank was showing the goal, not the road [], of course there is a possibility that i missed it, it evolved into large topic, so no harm meant []

i tried to convince people that doing good is better than thinking  only about themselves and not giving a sh** about their surroundings

sense of alienation, in poland buddhism is more of a exotic cult than a way of life/philosophy/religion, and thus people don't feel unity, don't compare things i experienced with what they experienced, there are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between, it's like he's a buddhist, it's some eastern philospohy, maybe cult, so for sure he doesn't enjoy life , some are shocked that i can drink, smoke, have sex and such, there' a lot of prejudice, it's mainly catholic country, 90 % declare themselves as such, but only 10 % are true believers, the rest are atheists who hate themselves and their lives, and others, but they won't seek for something better, that's the effect of communism, everyone is waiting for something

and it runs in the families ...

at leat that is what i experience everyday, some poles on this forum may disagree, we have different lives after all ... and still i'm happy with myself and with my life [^]