I do not believe Demons exist!

[Xanth]

Editing my title to a less... possibly antagonistic one. 

My most recent addition to my website.  
Yes... it's only my opinion... I stand by it 110% though.
It's an article based around people experiencing demons in the astral state.

*************************

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/11/05/demons-do-not-exist/

From time to time on the Astral Pulse forums and lately in the Astral Pulse IRC channel (there are links for both locations on the right side of this website) I've been having to tackle the issue of demons.  People supposedly "fighting" with and just having general encounters with demons.

I'll just say that "demons" (or other negative entities) on the astral is purely a matter of BELIEF.  They only exist in the minds and experiences of those who believe in them.

Now, how did I come to this conclusion?  Well, basically, I can't remember a single time in my life where I've ever had an encounter with ANYTHING that could even remotely be considered evil that didn't come directly from my subconscious mind.  No objective existence of a negative entity has ever cropped up in my experiences.
I've been Lucid Dreaming for pretty much my entire life and more recently into my Astral Projections, I have never experienced this phenomenon.

What can I infer from this?  Well one of two things.

If demons really do exist then they are afraid to interact with me for some unknown reason.  We know this can't be the case due to demon-legend and folklore... and honestly, I'm nobody special.  Now the second option... they are the creation of those who believe and I do not believe that they exist so I don't provide them with the chance to exist.  Makes sense, eh?

The only reason people experience demons in their astral projections is because either they outright believe in them or on some subconscious level outside their normally accepted conscious awareness, they believe in them.  Either way, it's a fear-based belief that brings them into your projections.

And seriously... fighting them?  That's giving them even more power to exist, because you are only further reinforcing the belief in yourself that they exist by engaging them.  Your best bet is to ignore them as best you can.  Close off your thoughts and emotions to the scenes playing out around you and they'll fade away into the nothing they came from.

So, the next time you find yourself facing down "demons" in your astral projection, don't be afraid, they are a simple fear-based self creation.

Opinions?  Thoughts?

[personalreality]

If demons really do exist then they are afraid to interact with me for some unknown reason.  We know this can't be the case due to demon-legend and folklore... and honestly, I'm nobody special.  Now the second option... they are the creation of those who believe and I do not believe that they exist so I don't provide them with the chance to exist.  Makes sense, eh?

*sigh* (i'll bet a lot more milk gets spilled up there.  maybe you guys should consider not putting your liquids in bags.)

[Killa Rican]

I can somewhat agree with you partly. Because I know why you'd rather choose not to believe based on your own experiences. But criticizing the mindset itself.


One can choose not to accept the existence of Demons or Negative Entitys. But What about Higher Beings or Nuetral Entitys? Whatever one chooses to accept.

The way i see it Someone wants to debunk the existence of a Neg just because they are your own fear generated by the individuals subconscious and is only a Figment. I can only see it as an "All Or Nothing" situation. The Person doesnt WANT to believe in Negative entitys so they would rather just believe in God, or Karma, or any other spiritual concept. ONLY if it relates to Light & Love though. Since this is the trend with new age now.

"There's no such thing as evil. Nothing is out there to harm you. We are all a piece of God. Everything in the Universe is Sunshine Rainbows and Bunnies."

^ I'm not really a big fan of that new agey concept LOL!

One would rather accept Ghosts, Angels, There Deceased Relatives or whatever because they believed they encountered them on the astral. But if a "Negative Entity" Objectivly comes on it's own and get's through to you, heavens it must be your own imagination. So what about everything else? The Muse? The spirit guides? Whatever can and will exist on the astral simply exists whether we accept it's existence or not.

I do understand what your saying Xanth and i do agree partly. But i see it as "All or Nothing". Whatever People encounter on the astral they can choose to accept as real or "imaginary." But it doesnt change what it simply was.

If a demon really does attack me i can just say "Its okay its only myself. There's no such thing as Demons." But then i would either have to accept or dismiss anything else i encountered. And Im talking Physical Manifestions and Intense experiences here. This goes beyond just Dreaming Or APing.

So This goes down to what came first, The Chicken Or The Egg?

Just the way i see it. "Demons" are a pretty nasty word to most and people would rather  just label them as "Tricksters" or "Negs" to me it doesnt really matter.

If it appears to have a mind of it's own, it's capable of choosing of helping humanity, Enhancing a persons life, inspiring people, or toying and ruining peoples lives.

[EscapeVelocity]

I tend to agree with your analysis Xanth. My experience is  admittedly, limited to some 40 plus OBE's over 30 years, just beginning to accelerate in the last few years; but I have never run into any demons or evil entities that , upon reflection, weren't simply a creation of my own. I still remain open to the possibility of 'concentrations' of negative energy, whether they be demons, 'neg parasitic life' or whatever, but I simply haven't encountered them. Maybe I haven't been out 'far' enough, maybe my general scepticism is, so far, enough to keep me from encountering them... I dunno, I'm still open to possibilities.

[NoY]

 
:NoY:

[DH]

I would agree with Xanth on this one.  I have been doing conscious OBEs and shamanic journeys for thirty  plus years and I have never run into demons or other negative entities trying to cause great harm.  I have never given them any room in "my world."  If they are an objective force to reckon with I guess they don't like me either.  And I have plenty of flaws that a demon could exploit.

Sláinte!   

[Xanth]

you have never had a conscious exit so what is your opinion worth?
there are loads of things you haven seen and you wont see them because you cant obe, and its not the same as having a dream

you simply don't know and that dosen't make you an expert does it?

:NoY:

I'm sorry you can't handle my opinion on this.  I'm sorry you can't handle me disagreeing with you.
But I've never ONCE... EVER... said you were wrong.

And I simply can't believe you would try to pull that particular card... Wow... just wow...
Thank you for showing us your true colours. 

[Xanth]

I would agree with Xanth on this one.  I have been doing conscious OBEs and shamanic journeys for thirty  plus years and I have never run into demons or other negative entities trying to cause great harm.  I have never given them any room in "my world."  If they are an objective force to reckon with I guess they don't like me either.  And I have plenty of flaws that a demon could exploit.

Sláinte!   

Exactly!  See, that's my entire point...
These beings are supposed to exploit all of these flaws in us... and every human has plenty.
So why is it only the people who believe in these things are the only ones who experience them?

I can do math here folks... and something here doesn't add up. 

[Naykid]

I'm sorry you can't handle my opinion on this.  I'm sorry you can't handle me disagreeing with you.
But I've never ONCE... EVER... said you were wrong.

And I simply can't believe you would try to pull that particular card... Wow... just wow...
Thank you for showing us your true colours. 

What card is that? ..the race card? The astral card? And what true colours is that?  I have to say I'd thought the same thing about you in times past,..and it's only because you seem to come from a place knowing and authority.  It's hard to sell your wares to people when they realized you've never used the wares. 

I'm just saying, you can't get all defensive every time someone has a negative thing to say.  Regardless of your relationship with them outside this forum, people are going to say what they want to say, not what you hope they say.  Just like that new guy here, the one that is here to...."learn".  You played right into his hand.  He was wanting a reaction and he got one from several ppl.  I've seen his game more than once on this forum and it never fails to entertain.  I doubt videos have much to do with what he is doing, but as long as he doesn't go the personal attack route I say he's fine.  You fed his ego and energy. 

[NoY]

 
:NoY:

[Firmitas]

I thought this was a place to learn from each other and bounce ideas off of each other.

Shouldn't we be doing just that?

Xanth I would really like to believe that what you are saying is true. I do have a lot of fear of any kind of negative entity or "demon", which worries me since I haven't really projected yet. Even though I believe what you are saying, there is still a subtle doubt and fear, do you think that could be enough to run into one?

-Firmitas

[TofuAttack]

you have never had a conscious exit so what is your opinion worth?
there are loads of things you haven seen and you wont see them because you cant obe, and its not the same as having a dream

you simply don't know and that dosen't make you an expert does it?

:NoY:

are you trying to say that 'phasing' and classic OBEs induce a different kind of 'astral projection'?
i guess that does make sense though.
i guess with phasing you'd be likely to overlap your dream imagery and the astral plane a lot more than a classic obe?

(but i have to say, that was quite an insulting and unneccessary comment directed at xanth)

[personalreality]

no, that's not what he was saying and it wasn't really insulting.

read Xanth's posts on the forum, he says it himself that he hasn't ever had a conscious exit, he projects from lucid dreams.

NoY on the other hand has a great deal of experience with phasing, AP, OBE, whatever you wanna call it and regularly has detailed explorations of the otherworlds. 

you tell me who you'd trust to give you information about these otherworlds.

it's not an insult, that's just ego talking.

but that doesn't mean Xanth isn't experienced.  he has a great deal of theoretical knowledge and a great deal of LD experience and phasing practice.  he is VERY well studied on many different AP techniques as well as mysticism in general.  he is a very useful source of information, theoretical and practical.

each person brings their own strengths to our discussions, but no one person's perspective is any better than another.  we don't need to bring ego and pride into this.  so what if someone doesn't consciously exit and so what if someone consciously exits daily.

i haven't projected since march of this year and i only started in january.  that's maybe 3 months of actual projection experience, yet people still seem to find my explanations helpful.  i'm good with theoretical knowledge and abstract contemplation.  i can see the mechanisms of the practices we do and i have a lot of knowledge on the subject from many different traditions.  i am able to combine that to provide helpful information, even though i don't have a lot of OOB experience.  does that make information that i share less reliable or useful?  of course not.  it means that i can help in certain situations and other people may help better in other situations.

[Xanth]

Xanth I would really like to believe that what you are saying is true. I do have a lot of fear of any kind of negative entity or "demon", which worries me since I haven't really projected yet. Even though I believe what you are saying, there is still a subtle doubt and fear, do you think that could be enough to run into one?

-Firmitas

In my opinion, if you DO run into one just try your best to ignore it... or move to somewhere else.  OR ask for some help.

The point is, you're going to get frightened at some point.  It's best to learn how to deal with that fear early.


And thanks Tofu and PR for the kind words. 

[Xanth]

are you trying to say that 'phasing' and classic OBEs induce a different kind of 'astral projection'?
i guess that does make sense though.
i guess with phasing you'd be likely to overlap your dream imagery and the astral plane a lot more than a classic obe?

(but i have to say, that was quite an insulting and unneccessary comment directed at xanth)

In my opinion, you're talking about the same place.
The "dream plane" and the "astral plane" are two words for the same area of consciousness.

So the entire point I've been trying to relay is that it doesn't matter which method you project with (OBE or Phasing) you end up in the same area of consciousness.
You're completely at risk of having dream imagery hit you, this is why it's ALWAYS important to keep a tight lid on your thoughts and emotions.

Does that make any sense? 

[Everlasting]

I do believe in them, I have encountered them and they are totally black in appearance and radiate absolute fear.

[Pauli2]

Just send them PUL and they will turn into cozy little fur balls.

[Xanth]

I do believe in them, I have encountered them and they are totally black in appearance and radiate absolute fear.

You do understand what I'm trying to say though, right?

You're "encountering" them, *BECAUSE* you believe in them.
You are manifesting your encounters.

[Everlasting]

You have decided that they don't exist and that they must be thoughtforms. I understand your argument.

[personalreality]

I differ from ryan at this point slightly.

for me, demons certainly exist but for the most part, the demons that are experienced from a human perspective are generated from your own mind.  i'm not saying they are a figment of your imagination (not that that isn't real either though), but rather they are intensely compressed thoughtforms that have been given enough energy by you to become manifest.  you could experience these beings physically or astrally.  bottom line, in most situations (from a human perspective), you created these entities out of your own supposed shortcomings, the bits of yourself that you refuse to acknowledge.  this is why inner transformational work is absolutely imperative if you want to undertake spiritual work.  if you don't heal your mind, you will continue to suppress what you don't like about yourself and pieces will continue to fragment and break away from you.  don't get me wrong here, these pieces never leave you, they stay with you and impact your perception of reality.  why do you think everyone in the world is sooo crazy these days?  they're incomplete.

[Xanth]

That's actually, more or less exactly what I'm saying. 

[personalreality]

hindsight is awesome right?

lol.

[onetimeuser]

On the contrary I feel demons definitely exist. I also feel that most wouldn't recognize them if they ever saw them. The word has been assigned (of course from the same culprits that like to rearrange most things *cough the church cough*) From my interactions with lower level or lower vibratory beings they are very helpful and not in the least bit "devilish". There is a slight intenseness that seems to come from them. They also seem to be rather put off by being vilified and blamed for acts that we typically assign to them. I of course wouldn't recommend contact with any being for the unsupervised novice, but I don't feel demons are in particular anything to be afraid, or certainly not to have their existence questioned due to misrepresentation. Seek out Vassago, believed to be a Prince, if you would like to interact with one for yourself. Keep in mind that they don't like to be pestered without something in return!

[dotster]

People are still seeing a dualistic reality. You can't teach them how to see the bigger picture, they have to come to that on their own terms. Everything we grow up learning is from a dualistic mindset. Very few people want to risk taking that step back from everything they know/think they are and try to look at "reality" a from a different perspective because it goes against the "perceived nature" of our day-to-day observations/experiences that happen here in this physical reality. Even this post will gain snide remarks, and that's okay, I fully expect it because as I said at the beginning people are still seeing a dualistic reality and they think that that is the only way.

all the best,
dotster

[Xanth]

People are still seeing a dualistic reality. You can't teach them how to see the bigger picture, they have to come to that on their own terms. Everything we grow up learning is from a dualistic mindset. Very few people want to risk taking that step back from everything they know/think they are and try to look at "reality" a from a different perspective because it goes against the "perceived nature" of our day-to-day observations/experiences that happen here in this physical reality. Even this post will gain snide remarks, and that's okay, I fully expect it because as I said at the beginning people are still seeing a dualistic reality and they think that that is the only way.

all the best,
dotster

Actually, dotster, I fully agree with you.