I do not believe Demons exist!

[Summerlander]

On the contrary I feel demons definitely exist. I also feel that most wouldn't recognize them if they ever saw them. The word has been assigned (of course from the same culprits that like to rearrange most things *cough the church cough*) From my interactions with lower level or lower vibratory beings they are very helpful and not in the least bit "devilish". There is a slight intenseness that seems to come from them. They also seem to be rather put off by being vilified and blamed for acts that we typically assign to them. I of course wouldn't recommend contact with any being for the unsupervised novice, but I don't feel demons are in particular anything to be afraid, or certainly not to have their existence questioned due to misrepresentation. Seek out Vassago, believed to be a Prince, if you would like to interact with one for yourself. Keep in mind that they don't like to be pestered without something in return!

You FEEL... there is no proof.  to be perfectly honest with you, the whole idea sounds ridiculous to me.  There are no demons.  I've encountered them and after facing them without fear I realised they are nothing but nightmares waiting for you to confront them.  Once you face them and recognise them for what they are (fear and dissonant states of mind) they dissipate.  They are part of you, your fears...not real entities.  I guarantee you 100%.

I've got no time for such ideas.  The Phase state can be used for better and far more beneficial experiences.  The demons you experience have no existence but in your mind.  Your subconscious creates them.  They are simpler and more coherent representations of ill feelings.  They manifest because you believe in them and think about them and they will only go away when you realise the truth.  It is the devil in all of us.  Check out the story of Buddha and Mara.  It illustrates this perfectly.  Buddha defeated Mara by realising that Mara was a part of him.

There are no demons.  Period!  A lot of people forget how powerful the unconscious mind is at conjuring up convincing horrendous forms.  

[AndrewTheSinger]

You don't believe them until one comes out under your bed

[Summerlander]

LOL, are you serious! 

Children...they are just nightmares...they are not real!!!!!

[Lexy]

this reminds me of that movie "the last rite"

[blis]

Do you believe anything exists apart from yourself? If good/neutral lifeforms can exist why not negative ones?

I've never seen an elephant but I believe they exists.

[Kestrel]

But practical question,if they exist,what really can do to you.If you just consciousness how can they harm you,how they harm consciousness?

[Summerlander]

Do you believe anything exists apart from yourself? If good/neutral lifeforms can exist why not negative ones?

I've never seen an elephant but I believe they exists.

Oh come on.  Elephants exist in the actual world.  I've ridden an elephant before.  They exist.  I cannot change their form with my mind.  Period.  "Demons" are a mere concept!  They are not real!  They are not life forms.  I can reduce them to nothing.  I can morph them into whatever I want.  They are like nightmares stemming from belief, fear and lack of understanding of what is being perceived (fear of the unknown) - like children having nightmares because they know very little and are scared of most things.

MY EXPERIENCE tells me that they do not exist.  Certainly not as an elephant!  I can assure you that these demons are being shaped by my mind consciously/unconsciously in the metaphysical 'playdoh'.  And in answer to Kestrel, no they can do no harm...but you can harm yourself by thinking about them all the time and fearing them.  You'll give yourself depression! LOL!  I repeat: they are not real!  Nightmares and demons in the Phase are mind manifestations and not necessarily "negative"!!! Why label them negative?  They can provide a realistic opportunity for you to face your fears and improve your consciousness.  Once it is done you can move on!  Done and dusted! PHEW!  

[blis]

Ok forget about the elephant, it was just a throw away comment.(even though you could probaly change how their form appears in your mind if you tried hard enough)

But do you think there are any real people in the non physical? Is the concept of your phase just a projection of your own consciousness? Just dreams? Do you not believe in communal places?

[Xanth]

The answer comes down to this... how do you prove something that is subjective?

[personalreality]

think.

paradox solved.

[blis]

I used to wonder if anything was real at all. There really is no way to prove it. I could be sitting in a coma somewhere imagining all this.

I dont believe Ryan exists

[astraladdict]

I used to wonder if anything was real at all. There really is no way to prove it. I could be sitting in a coma somewhere imagining all this.

I can kind of relate to this. When i was little i would walk around thinking " Am i really walking right now? What if i'm actually laying in bed at home or at school?"

~astraladdict

[Xanth]

I used to wonder if anything was real at all. There really is no way to prove it. I could be sitting in a coma somewhere imagining all this.

I dont believe Ryan exists

*POOF!* 

[Summerlander]

But do you think there are any real people in the non physical? Is the concept of your phase just a projection of your own consciousness? Just dreams? Do you not believe in communal places?

Any real people?  No.  Surreal?  Yes. 

I don't know, man.  All I know is that it is the realm of thoughts that we enter and there can't be people there like in the real world.  Like everything else, it is a thought or the idea of something.  A limbo of possibilities.  Then again, you are sentient there, you become the 'idea of you' which enables you to explore with clarity the 'idea of a reality' or realities.  Perhaps you occasionally encounter sentient 'ideas of others' in their representational forms.  But I can assure you that if there are, they are not out there to harm you in anyway.  They are either apparently benign, indifferent, confused, or just weird.  These are the ones that don't look like lifeless mannequins, of course.

As for "demons"...nah.  When they come, I've been able to annihilate every single one of them simply by denying their existence and believing that I can.  They stopped coming for me ages ago now anyway.  Rest assured...you are safe in the Phase state (OOBEs/AP/LD).

[personalreality]

solipsism, makes sense to me.

[Summerlander]

I like that...and it is most likely to be true. ^^

[Astral316]

I love the ideas of solipsism. How do we know dream people are real? Hell, how do we know real people are real? We can see them, touch them and converse with them... can't we do that with dream people to? It all just boils down to stability... one experienced reality is stable, the other isn't. Whatever assumptions you can make based off that fact are beliefs all the same.

[personalreality]

When you consider the way we actually perceive reality, the brain filters external sensory stimuli into a form that we understand to be reality, then it seems like the only possible option.  If each of us has a slightly different brain and neural chemistry, and we each have different life experiences that alter the neural connections in our brain over the years, and we each have unique genetics that effects the way we develop and react to our environment, then each of us has an infinitely unique perceptual filter through which our world is seen.  Put simply, no two people see the world in the exact same way, period.  And I believe that with the advent of spoken language we forgot that uniqueness in favor of generalized words to describe our reality.  But in truth, even though we use the same word to describe a concrete object, the subtle nuances of that object as understood through our unique perceptions means that the word actually has different definitions specific to each of us (because a word is more than just a definition, it is a metaphor for a perceptual event, a sensory memory).  Thus, no two people see anything about reality in the same way, we just use the equivalent of mental shortcuts (language) in order to communicate with each other, but in reality, we we're talking, we're not really speaking the same language.  So in effect, my reality is the only reality relative to me.  I can never really know your reality because I don't have your perceptual filter which literally shapes your life.  So for all intents and purposes, your reality doesn't even exist relative to mine.

Then there is the other level of solipsism which takes it beyond conceptual theory into concrete reality with the idea of philosophical zombies.  If my reality is the only reality that exists (and since i can't perceive your reality, then mine is the only one that exists for me), then how do I know that you're even experiencing a reality at all?  How do I know that you're nothing more than just a figment of my imagination, created by my subconscious to reflect my inner reality (which incidentally is a technique I use in pathworking - i create a world that is populated by people who are representations of parts of my subconscious).  You may indeed just be a bundle of nerves with no consciousness to speak of.  You know how to react when necessary, but you aren't actually real in the sense that I am real.

It's a neat philosophy.

[NoY]

I bet you cant find a single thing in your entire life that was not simply an energetic reaction to the environment, or a reaction to emotions,

this means if there is such a thing as life its the environment that is alive not you
your just a trick of the light

:NoY:

[personalreality]

fair enough

[Optic]

Whether you believe in demons or not, it does not matter, the fact is that sometimes yes people do in fact experience demons whilst traversing the extra-sensory realms, these demons are in fact negatively polarized entities, we all know criminals exist amongst us humans, they are individuals that are driven towards doing "evil" or negative acts, likewise demons are of a similar type, have you ever met a hard-core criminal? If you have then you have had the experience of meeting one, likewise are people who encounter demons.

Although you are right that some people may actually be encountering their own mental formations that appear as "demons", well this is just as interesting, because that mental formation represents some "demon" that is functioning inside of our subconscious mind, these "demons" may manifest before us in the thought sensitive realms if the conditions are right for it, and because they appear to be outside of us, we mistake them for being elements that do not form part of our own constitution psychologically.

It is these demons that we carry within that must be abolished from our psyche, if we want true liberation and enlightenment of the Soul/Consciousness. Now here we see why religions have as their foundation a system of ethical discipline, not as some kind rule to weaken the students mind, but rather to cultivate the positive qualities inherent within the Consciousness of man, those demons are what some people call ego or self-will, a form of self-centeredness that obstructs the development of the Soul/Consciousness.

"Error runs down an inclined plane, while Truth
has to laboriously climb its way up-hill."

In microcosmic words it is easier to feed our egos/demons/desires than it is to weed them out and cultivate the virtues of the Soul.

Thus macro-cosmically it is much easier to become a demon than it is to become a saint or a buddha.

[Panchajanya]

Every one of us has the capability to be a demon. If you want to believe in relative truths, that's alright but the  "You don't know the power of the dark side" issue exists, and is very seductive. A demon is simply someone who has taken the lower nature that we all have and developed it. We have a choice to develop our higher nature or to develop our lower nature. Chief among the lower nature qualities: lust, anger and greed. This is going on in this physical plane,yes there are "bad" people out there, so why not on the astral?

[FadeEsdrasX]

Are the demons in question limited to astral experiences?

[AndrewTheSinger]

FadeEsdrasX, no, but in the astral they can be perceived more easily.

To those who are brave enough, go out in your dream and say aloud something like "Demons don't exist, if they do they are idiots, I'm the king of my dream!"

Then report back to us, that should be interesting.