Promises Shromises

[Rastus]

Yes, but difficult to implement.  Especially since people 'hear' what they want to hear.  People won't hear the word 'might' or 'maybe' in a sentence.  It's not your fault, but it's a strange corolary.  Ask any parent about their childrens hearing []

It's a Wiccan tennent to never lie, to others or yourself, and it's difficult to do in the modern world....

[jilola]

quote:Especially since people 'hear' what they want to hear

Indeed and people don't want to say what the want to say and happily go on to say somethign just because that's what they can say and what they think people want to hear.

How much easier would it be to do and not talk about doing. Or not to do and save the effort of speaking about doing and then not doing it.

I guess this is a scream (albeit a muted and toned down one) against conformism and the smooching of the human fundament just to cross the fence where its the lowest. (incidentally doing and not promising is perusing the gate and fogoing the effort of climbing over alltogether.)

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[kiauma]

This is where it is so important to know yourself, and to trust and have faith in yourself and your place in the universe.

This gives much less opportunity for 'distraction'.

[Rastus]

As Master Yoda said:
There is no try, there is Do or not Do!

[jilola]

"Don't promise. Surprise everyone"
- master Jouni

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[kiauma]

Enlightenment, promises, and the promise of 'the' messiah;

http://deoxy.org/critmass.htm#chat

[jilola]

Hah! I've missed that one! Is it new or have I been blind?
Nice to see another deoxy afficianado(sp?) around

<after reading the link>
And Ye Shall Know the Messiahs by the Hollow Banging Together Of Their Heads.

2cens & L&L
jouni

[Lighthouse]

Master Jouni,

Perhaps a promise is more like the vocalized desire for a thing to occur and a personal affirmation that that thing would be one of many desired outcomes within multiple universes.  Perhaps the promise is the truth for that person at the time of the promise, not having the forsight of knowing what events may or may not occur in the future to nullify those promises.  If the promise is broken, it is not that the person is untrue, it means the circumstances have changed.

It may be better to not promise but I see it as more of a personal affirmation on the part of the promiser (not the promisee) of what they might desire as a positive outcome.  The promisee is just representative of the physical manifestation of the desired feeling or experience which the promiser confuses for the actual feeling or experience.

Is that abstruce enough?

-Kerri

[jilola]

quote:Perhaps a promise is more like the vocalized desire for a thing to occur and a personal affirmation that that thing would be one of many desired outcomes within multiple universes

Indeed it is. But all to often a promise is not a Promise but an utterance to placate the promisee.

A vocalized promise tends to be just a ploy. Think about the promises we make during any given day and you'll see  how many are made just to get out of a sticky situation and how many get broken the moment they are spoken.

As for abstruceness, I think you nailed it.

[Lighthouse]

Oh... so I see, you're not talking about, future promises of love, life dreams and goals.  You're talking mere utterances like when my kids ask me if we can go to the park, I say yes then I find out it's 95 degrees outside and too hot to do anything.  That's when I have to break a "promise."  

I guess we need to define the term promise in order to properly address your question.  To me there is a difference.

_Kerri

[jilola]

Ah yes. There is a difference between a Promise and a promise as there is between Love and love.

Complacency breeds more than familiarity. It breeds chaos and suffering.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Lighthouse]

So, how do you define a promise?  I know this is semantics but just humor me [].  Is it anything that comes out of a person's mouth or do the words, "I promise" follow?  To me, anything that comes out of a person's mouth is a promise but some people may see that differently.  I rarely use the words, "I promise," however, I feel I am an honest person and try to be truthful to the best of my ability... Nothing hurts more to me than stating an untruth that I know is false (another way of looking at is... being untrue to myself.)  

Again... what constitutes a promise?


-Kerri

[kiauma]

A promise is a verbal contract between people.  You may not even realize you have made a contract, until that horrible beast, the 'broken promise', comes around.  

Broken promises though, much like beauty, can be wholly in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.  Many people hold their very own strict sense of justice, so that you may find that a casual word from you has been misinterpreted into a contract.  Others make promises like toast, and just as easily leave them on the plate to get cold and desiccated, and eventually be disposed of like betrayed trust.

All too often, it is the much sought after mutual agreement of the terms of the contract, and ultimately what is Just, that is misunderstood and disagreed on.   Rarely in my experience, do people actually take responsibility for having assumed a promise, or take responsibility for a broken promise without defense.

If a person holds what is important beyond their mere desires in the first place, I think their would be less need for promises, and less promises broken.

[The AlphaOmega]

Wouldn't it be better not to promise and break the promise but to not promise and live true?

How can you break a promise you never made?  How can you live true to a promise you never made?  They say promises are made to be broken, along with rules.  Doesn't have to be so.  It's not like promising something is going to make it happen, you have to choose to keep or break the promise.  It's not about the words, it's the choice whether or not to believe or hold true to them.

[kiauma]

quote:Wouldn't it be better not to promise and break the promise but to not promise and live true?

How can you break a promise you never made? How can you live true to a promise you never made? They say promises are made to be broken, along with rules. Doesn't have to be so. It's not like promising something is going to make it happen, you have to choose to keep or break the promise. It's not about the words, it's the choice whether or not to believe or hold true to them.

Ah, if only it were that simple.  Certainly 'living true' would be the simplest solution, but a promise is between (at least) two people, and where another person is involved, then to understand any agreement or disagreement you have to understand both views, which can be totally different.   Certainly, you can decide to 'live true' for yourself, and that "...it's not about the words, it's the choice whether or not to believe or hold true to them," but what is the view of the other person??  What is his/her biases, views, needs, philosophy?  Certainly to deny the validity of the others views to that person (irregardless of the morality of them, which is a seperate issue) would be very selfish and itself, immoral.

You have no control over what another thinks, nor should you.  You only have control over what you think or do.  We can only hope those we have deallings with carry the natural morals of the light as dear as we, and forgive the rest.  

Beyond our 'Right' to have a promise fulfilled, is the choice not to create pain in ourselves and the world.   Which is more important to you?   Are you going to let the unconcious decisions of a few spoil your own peace of mind?  Are you going to let circumstances beyond your control create your inner state?

Be aware.  Be conscious.  Make your own decisions, create your own inner peace, do your best, and go in peace.

[jilola]

Aren't promises just a vocalized expressions of what we think we are and thus affected by what we think we should be as far as other peoples expectations figure into the picture?

In other words a promise is a statememnt of self skewed by societal reality.

Wouldn't it be better not to promise and break the promise but to not promise and live true? (there's a tricky sentence, (t)read carefully)

2cents & L&L
Jouni