Something I thought of I wanted to share.

[ArmyOfOne1911]

Hey everyone. Hope all is well!

I just wanted to share this with the pulse. It made me really think about some things. Got rid of some confusion I guess you could say.

When you hear about people suffering, whether you see it on the news or in person... I got to thinking, if technology didn't exist it wouldn't be as bad. Here is an example of what I mean. (Someone gets in a motorcycle accident and has a massive brain injury. He is no longer able to speak or walk on his own. Most of his memories are gone from this injury. Doctors have him living on machines right now.) That's just an example I made up. Now I got to thinking... That looks horrible, and something like that can make anyone feel bad. I know something like that would get to me. But I thought about it... What if there were no doctors? No emergency medicine, and everything was natural. Eventually he would have passed away. But, with modern medicine he is in this vegetable state now. If there was no machines to keep people alive, that brain injury would have acted faster and more natural. Now he is suffering but it's because of modern medicine. I mean this could be anything, not the example I made. A severe burn... or someone you see who is extremely disfigured from an accident. They would have passed on naturally and the pain would have subsided alot quicker. It's almost like the body knows if something like that happens the natural thing to do is to fix it naturally, or... for the body to die but the spirit to move on. It looks extremely bad living on machines etc. My question is if you were in a vegetable state... I don't know about you but I would rather die naturally then to be kept alive. You know what I mean? I been reading this book on the body and how amazing it is. What it does to fight diseases. It's got defense mechanisms... and things I never even knew about. It just made me think about life more... and if people died naturally things wouldn't look so bad, like seeing the things we see sometimes on the news etc. What do you guys think?

-Cody

[CFTraveler]

That's easy to say when the other person isn't a loved one.
Back in the time of hunter-gatherers, (some tribes) if there was not enough food to support the tribe, the babies were left to die.  I don't want to live in a time or place where this is the norm.
Even though I'm all for organically grown, natural things (or what passes for natural nowadays) I'll take life over death any day.
And, there are such things as living wills, you know.  If the kid in your example was made to linger, it's because someone didn't want to let go.

[Lionheart]

 Life is sacred, plain and simple. We do everything physically possible to sustain this. But, being on a machine in a "vegetative" state is not my description of living. I agree with "assisted suicide". I believe that when a person comes to the conclusion that they have lived a long fulfilled life and now are living with all kinds of pain and suffering that they should have the right to pass on to the their next journey. I personally have had friends that have flown to Sweden to achieve this goal. They were cancer ridden and just decided it was time to go.

[rain_88]

I don't want to sound harsh, but before modern medicines, people without sufficiently strong system/immune system died of diseases we can cure today. But people who survive with the help of vaccines and medicines will always get betrayed by their weaker system, they will always get sick easier and this thing builds up with time, so after all, medicines cause more suffering in the long run. I know it is not easy when the story is about your loved ones, but maybe that poor soul chose that purpose for it's recent manifestation to die of a given disease or in an accident, so who can decide, when should modern science intervene?

rain

[Rudolph]

I think the real issue is going to be old age and when do we pull the plug?

When I reach the point where I can't feed myself and manage my own daily elimination, etc. I want to just lay down and call it quits. It is astounding how many people will get up every morning and wait for someone to help them get to the bathroom and clean them up afterwards and then spoon feed them something that passes for breakfast and then give them their medicine so they can continue existing in a semi-conscious stupor for another day... nuh-uh... NOT for me.

I hope I am in control enough at some level to manage a massive coronary event or an aneurism or something to just check out at a time that is reasonably convenient for my family.
Modern meds can perpetuate a state of suspended animation for the extremely aged almost indefinitely nowadays. It is a little scary.

[ZiggyMike]

We are all suppose to live naturally and in tune with nature, we are also allowed to make technological breakthroughs and use medicine, but the way we go about it these days is quite unfortunate. Pain caused by the demise of a loved one I think is overrated. Like we know, the soul never dies. "Modern medicine" is almost overrated too as people with "life threatening" diseases can lead a normal life if they have the correct mindset.  (mediatation, healing, spreading and recoeving love) I can attest and defend that anytime! They can bring about healing and support to their "ailing" selves. The rate of spiritual decline have made everything seem like suffering and evil... And bad. I personally think that medicine, nature, death, suffering can all be handled if the people are spiritually minded enough to handle it, or if an adequate number of people are enlightened enough to handle it.
There is no path set in stone but we can choose a path we see fit. If everyone were lets say Buddah status, "suffering" and "pain" I think will not be a serious problem.
I still think the rate of spiritual decline is one of the major attributes that bring about suffering.
After all, the goal is to remain in the matrix and not be of the matrix... To remove oneself from he equation.
IMHO though..
With Love.

[Bedeekin]

That's easy to say when the other person isn't a loved one.

And so the question rages.

Is the loved one 'you'?

Obviously the loved one wants to hang on to any vestige that is the 'you' they love... maybe dare I say as a selfish "I don't want the person I love to go away" need.

Is this the right choice?

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html?source=facebook#.T00-RIoRH2R.facebook

This is an interesting look at what happened to a woman who... as a neurological scientist had a stroke that put her temporarily into a vegetative state. With a watch.

[Lionheart]

 Excellent find Bedeekin. That video was great. Her Nirvana is why everyone is here at this site. Once you get a taste of it, you always want more. Through Phasing/OBE's we get the chance to experience it again and again. Each time as wondrous as the last, but after a while we start to learn from it. It becomes a major player in our lives, at least that's the way I feel. It changes the way we think and act, especially to one another as a whole.  

[Stookie_]

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html?source=facebook#.T00-RIoRH2R.facebook

This is an interesting look at what happened to a woman who... as a neurological scientist had a stroke that put her temporarily into a vegetative state. With a watch.

Here's another TED talk they released this week with a similar theme. I was planning on posting it and seems like an OK addition here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_humanity_s_stairway_to_self_transcendence.html

[Rudolph]

It looks extremely bad living on machines etc. My question is if you were in a vegetable state... I don't know about you but I would rather die naturally then to be kept alive. You know what I mean?

I think these videos are interesting but they are not addressing Cody's question.

If there were a "Do Not Resuscitate" option that we could place on our driver's license I would check that box.

How many OBEers develop enough detachment to know how to recognize when this body has outlived its usefulness?

I know I have been in realms wayyyyy far away from physical consciousness and when the return signal is received it is a surprise to recall the earthly existence and the thought of returning is enough to make one groan and grieve.

Fear of death is no longer a big issue for me. Fear of a miserable life in a decrepit physical body that can't take care of itself looms ahead of me as I near retirement.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
@ rudolf, In my mind Im still in my twenties, im my body its the thirties and my age is over fifty. Its so true your comment above. You return to (slight) pain in places you never knew you had. I keep fit and very active and would hate to be stuck in a body thats not been looked after.
The thought of incapacity is the worst NIGHTMARE there is.
I've told my family a carrot is found buried and a vegetable. If anyone ends up like this they will end up buried too. Sounds harsh but there's no point in that state.
Register as a donor too, that would clinch it.

[ZiggyMike]

Whatever nightmare we think we are living, there are just trials we are facing on this great great planet Gaia. Belive me it can be very tying! We should all be happy to be partakers of at this very crucial time. For garbages sake we are immortal beings! Individuated aspects of the divine! Small trials are just a glimpse of infinity. We are all love and love rules in the end.