The higher self: good, evil or both?

[MJ-12]

Izz

[Parmenion]

My present thoughts on the subject, for I cannot claim to *know* anything about this for sure.

The higher self *is* connected to the universal "source". It is therefore not prone to error. Errors occur in our interpritation (or lack of) the information passed down to our conciousness. This happens for several reasons, but one in particular.

All messages from the higher self must come to us through our subconcious mind.Therefore the extent to which we hear theses messages (if of course we even choose to listen) depends upon the blocks that lie within our subconcious. Our individual belief systems create blocks that will not allow contradicting ideas to pass through. So the message gets blocked, or distorted to fit in with what we currently hold as the truth. To hear the true answers to the questions we ask, we must first deconstruct our belief system. Take only what you *know* to be true and throw everything else out the window, or on the *maybe* shelf. Read RB's "catchbasket" for a good example.

Understanding things in my own head is a lot easier than translating my thoughts for others to read so that's all I'll say at the moment. Looking forward to some good replies on this topic!

Parmenion

[James S]

The Catchbasket Concept that Parmenion mentioned if VERY good. It helped me through a very crucial point in my spiritual growth.
Look it up in the articles section of astralpulse.com, it's well worth a read.

I think of my higher self as being the part of my consciousness that is rooted in the upper levels of my thoughts, away from the every day chatter and processes of our surface mind and more closely connected to the sea of collective consciousness that is the universe / God / the Source of all creation / (insert preferred deity here). The ideas that filter down from my higher self are far clearer, more concise, better informed than my regular thoughts because it is not muddled up in day to day concerns, worries, biases, etc.

I've recently come to think of the whole good / evil thing as being basically just a point of view. It seems to me that the physical world provides more of a basis for comparison between the two, whereas I feel that our higher self is more concerned with cause and effect than with good and evil. I would say that my higher self acts out of neither good nor evil, but what is beneficial for me, and for anyone or anything within my sphere of influence. This could be considered an act of good, as cause and effect is better served by positive construtive acts rather than negative destructive acts.

James.

[bomohwkl]

Here is an extract from Thiaoouba Prophency about higher-self at http://www.thiaoouba.com/ebook.htm


The Great Spirit 'inserted' thus, an infinitesimal part of the Spirit in the human body. This comprises what you could call the Astral body, which forms one ninth of the essential human being and consists of one ninth of a 'Higher self', which is sometimes called 'overself'. The Higher Self of man is, in other words, an entity which sends one ninth of itself into a human body, becoming the person's Astral being. Other physical bodies are inhabited, similarly, by other ninths of the same Higher Self and yet each part remains integral to the central entity.1

'Further, the Higher Self is a ninth part of a superior Higher Self which, in turn, is a ninth part of a more superior Higher Self. The process continues as far back as the source, and allows the enormous filtration of spiritual experience required by the Spirit.

'You must not think that the Higher Self of the first category is insignificant in comparison with the others. It functions at a lower level, but is nevertheless extremely powerful and important. It is capable of curing illness 2 and even resuscitating the dead. There are many instances of people, declared clinically dead, who are brought back to life in the hands of doctors who had abandoned all hope for them. What generally happens in these cases, is that the person's Astral body meets with the Higher Self. This portion of the Higher Self has left the physical body during the period of 'death'. It perceives its physical body below, and the doctors trying to resuscitate it; it can also perceive loved ones who mourn for it. In his present state, the Astral body, the person will feel perfectly well - even blissful. Usually he abandons his physical body, frequently the source of much suffering, to find himself catapulted down a 'psychic canal', at the end of which is a wondrous light and beyond, a state of bliss.

'If before passing through this canal into the blissful light which is his Higher Self he has the least will not to die - not on his own account but for the sake of those who need him, young children for example, he will ask to return. In certain cases it will be permitted.

'You are in constant communication with your Higher Self by means of your cerebral canal. Acting as a transmitting and receiving post, it conducts special vibrations directly between your Astral body and your Higher Self. Your Higher Self monitors you continually, by day and by night and can intervene to save you from an accident. Someone, for example, who is to catch a plane, finds that the taxi breaks down on the way to the airport; a second taxi called also breaks down - just like that... just like that? Could you really believe in such a coincidence?
'The plane in question crashes thirty minutes later, leaving no survivors. Another person, an old and rheumatic woman and barely able to walk, starts to cross a street. There is a loud horn blast and a screeching of tyres, but this person is miraculously able to leap to safety.

'How is this explained? It was not yet her time to die and so her Higher Self intervened. In one hundredth of a second the Higher Self triggered a reaction in her adrenaline glands which, for a few seconds, provided enough strength to her muscles to enable her to execute the leap which saved her life. Adrenaline released into the blood can make it possible to flee from imminent danger, or to defeat the 'unbeatable' through anger or fear. In too strong a dose, however, adrenaline becomes a lethal poison.

'It isn't only the cerebral canal which is able to conduct messages between the Higher Self and the Astral body. Another channel exists sometimes in dreams - or, I should even say, in sleep. At certain times during sleep, your Higher Self is able to call your Astral body to itself and, either communicate instructions or ideas, or to regenerate it in some way, replenishing its spiritual strength or enlightening it in regard to solutions to important problems. For this reason, it is essential your sleep is undisturbed by intrusive noise or by nightmares resulting from harmful impressions received during the day. Perhaps you will better understand the importance of your old French saying: 'Night brings counsel'.

'The physical body in which you exist at the moment is already very complex, but still, it is nothing compared with the complexity of the process of evolvement which occurs with Astral bodies and Higher-selves. In order to allow ordinary people on your planet to understand as easily as possible, I will make my explanation in the simplest (12) terms.

'Your Astral body, which inhabits every normal human being, transfers to its Higher Self all the sensations that are experienced during a lifetime in a physical body. These sensations pass through the immense 'filter' of nine Higher-selves before arriving in the etheric 'ocean' that surrounds the Spirit. If these sensations are based essentially on materialism, the Higher-selves have enormous trouble filtering them, just as a water filter clogs quicker if it filters dirty water than if the water was already clear.

'If, through the numerous experiences you have in your life, you ensure your Astral body benefits in a spiritual sense, it will acquire more and more spiritual understanding. In time, which can vary from 500 to even 15 000 of your Earth years, your Higher Self will have nothing more to filter.

'This part of itself, embodied in the Astral being of Michel Desmarquet, will be so spiritually advanced, it will have arrived at the next stage where it will have to contend directly with the more superior Higher Self.
'We can compare this process with a nine-stage filter, intended to rid the water passing through, of nine elements. At the end of stage one in the process, one will have been completely eliminated, with eight remaining. Of course, to make this information easier to digest, I am making enormous use of imagery...

'This Astral body then, will have completed its cycle with the Higher Self of the first category and will then detach itself from Higher Self number one to rejoin the Higher Self of the second category; the entire process will be repeated. By the same token, the Astral body will be sufficiently spiritually advanced to pass to a planet of the next category, as well.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 - 'central entity' - it means that each of us shares a Higher Self with 8 other people on Earth - explanation of the Author on Editor's request.

2 - What is known on Earth as Spiritual Healing, can be achieved with the help of the Higher Self of the healer, without the patient being present. However, providing the patient gives permission, the competent healer can assist the patient from anywhere in the world. (Author's comment) This is not an exchange of 'energy' but exchange of 'information' at the level of Higher Selves. (Editor's comment)

Another extract from different pages

A normal human Astral body contains approximately four billion, trillion electrons.1 These electrons have a life span of approximately ten billion, trillion of your years.2 They were created at the moment of creation. Your Astral body contains them and, when you die, nineteen per cent rejoin the electrons of the Universe until required by Nature to form a new body or a new tree or animal, and the eighty one per cent rejoin your Higher Self.'

'I don't quite follow you,' I interrupted.

'I know, but I intend helping you to understand. An Astral body is not quite what you would call a pure spirit. On Earth, there is a belief that the spirit is made of nothing. This is false. The Astral body is composed of billions of electrons, exactly marrying your physical shape. Each of these electrons has a 'memory' and each is capable of retaining as much information as is contained in all the books that fill the shelves of an average town library.

'I see you are staring wide-eyed at me, but it is as I say. This information is coded, like a microfilm containing all the plans of an industrial installation that a spy would be able to pass in a cufflink, though much more miniaturised than that. Certain physicists on Earth are now aware of this fact3 but the public, at large, hasn't been informed of it. Your Astral body transmits and receives messages, by means of these electrons, through the channel of your brain, to, and from your Higher Self. Information is being transmitted without you being aware of it, thanks to a weak electric current from your brain in harmony with your electrons.

'Since it is the Higher Self which sent this Astral body into your physical body, it is in the natural order of things that your Higher Self should receive information from your Astral body.

'Like all things electronic, the Astral body - tool of the Higher Self - is quite a delicate tool. During your waking hours it is capable of sending messages of extreme urgency to the Higher Self but the Higher Self seeks much more than that.

So, during sleep, your Astral body leaves your physical body to rejoin the Higher Self, either passing on required information or receiving information or orders. You have an old saying in French that: 'the night brings counsel'. This saying emerged from common experience. Over the course of years, people noticed that, on waking in the mornings, they often had the solutions to their problems.

'Sometimes this is so and sometimes it isn't. If the 'solution' will be profitable to the Higher Self you can be sure that it will be presented to you - if not, you will wait in vain.

'Now, those people who, through very advanced and special exercises, are able to detach their astral bodies from their physical bodies, will be able to see a light, silvery-blue thread, such as you saw yourself, linking their physical and astral bodies. Their Astral bodies, likewise, are visible during the time that the separation lasts. It is these same electrons which form your Astral body and which create the visible effect of the thread.


1: 4.0 x 1021 = 4 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 electrons (Editor's note)

2: 1022 = 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 years (Editor's note)

3: Please see http://nujournal.net/choice.html for more information about the recent (2001) discoveries about Physics of Consciousness (Editor's note)

[Mirador]

First category of the higher self, the ninth part of the overself? all this is connected to the cerebral, canal, the adrenal gland and what not? the subconcious chanelling to astral body, the soul? and you say you don't believe but you know? know what?

[jilola]

I doubt that the higher self and its actions have any as simple a categorization as good vs. evil on the physical plane.
It seems to me that the higher self is in essence the divine spark we are reflect in the physical. As such this spark is sigular and has no reference hence it cannot be either good or evil.
When we act in relation to other sparks on the physical our action s take on a relative meaning that can be categorized as good or evil.

Higher self, imho, is perfect in that it is a fragment of the One. But it is not perfect since it has become separate. Perfection is an absolute category and can not be manifested in anything that is not singular. But in a way, since this higher self is a part of the singular One it is perfect as itself bu tnot as it is manifested in the physical. Make sense?

2cents & L&L
jouni

[bomohwkl]

Please refer to the hyperlinks stated above. It is impossible to squeeze everything here.
http://www.thefreedomofchoice.com/
http://www.thiaoouba.com/ebook.htm

[goingslow]

Living here on earth we definitely know good from bad.  Maybe not when it happens to anyone else but when it happens to us.  Could you possibly imagine a person who rapes and murders being in tune with their higher self?  

But sometimes people act like whether they rape or murder or help people and love the higher self can do either since there's no good or bad.  

theres definitely "good" ways of being.  Like i said if someone said "im in touch with my higher self" but was involved in genocide.. rape etc.. You'd say "yeah right".

I think by definition the higher self can't be corrupted or else what would make it the "higher self?".  It would just be us.. I dont really think people who are moral can really be corrupted either.  I dont mean people who follow moral laws out of fear they wont go to hel.. but a person who really found out in their life there ARE right ways to act.  Such as not hurting anyone else.. not killing.. etc..

So to think the higherself could suddenly steer a person towards murder and rape to me just isnt possible.  I'd rather kill myself right now than become psychotic to the point i'd rape murder etc.. so i suspect the higher self is would be infinitely less likely to do so.

[goingslow]

In a way I agree with jilola that the higher self isn't good or bad as we know it.  Though I think when a person does something bad they're further from the higher self.  And when they're doing good they're closer to it.  So I dont know how that would really work.

[Parmenion]

I would have to agree that the higher self is neither good nor evil. Reason being that good and evil are subjective and are human constructs.

Parmenion

[goingslow]

Again I disagree that good and evil are just human constructs.

If hitlers was just as in tuned with his higher self than a person doing great deeds then there's no reason to do good.. why even call it a higher self.

I think saying the higher self isn't good or evil isnt the same as saying that since evil is subjective and its socially created evil or good have nothing to do with the higher self.

People know what evil is.. its subjective only in some people doing evil think its good because it feels good.  That doesn't mean you can dismiss value judgments on whether its bad to rape and kill by saying "its subjective.. i mean it depends on if you're raping or being raped".  

What good does walking around saying "nothing is good or bad" do?  If you happened to get beaten.. tortured or raped you might think. "hey maybe its actually bad in a real sense.. not just a socially created one".

[Parmenion]

Ok, how about saying good and evil are neccessary human constructs.

The higher self, being a microcsmic reflection of the divine would be beyond our interpritation of good and evil, no?

Parmenion

[kakkarot]

hey guys, just thought i'd reply to this one (my 1000th post: darn, can't delay it any longer[]).

i've known about an "other" self within me for a number of years now. it could be called a "higher" self because it is very much more in tune with the real universe out there (rather than just the physical universe that most humans think is the end all and be all of reality), however it isn't really more "morally rightgeous" (which the idea of a "higher" self connotates towards) than i am.

it is just as likely to do evil as it is to do good. it has just as much tendancy to do evil and cause destruction as has to do good and cause caring, all depending on the same factors that "push" normal humans towards either evil or good. except that how things affect it, and in what ways, are not neccessarily the same as how normal people would be affected by the same things.

so whether to call this thing a "higher" self or just a "greater" self (since it is more powerful, more intelligent, wiser, and more in tune with the real reality than i) is up for debate. but another thing to think about when pondering the concept of a higher self is that perhaps such a concept as a lower self should also be contemplated.

~kakkarot

[Parmenion]

Hi Kakarrot. ( You just couldnt keep away huh?)[^]

Is it possible that this other self to which you refer is actually your sub-concious or 'little self' as I've heard it called somewhere?
Being the translator between yourself and your higher self would naturally make it more in tune with the universe as a whole. Also there is no reason why the sub-concious would be above good and evil.

Just wondering. I dont know, do you?

Parmenion

[kakkarot]

you can just wipe that smug grin off your face parmenion [].

no, it's not my subconscious; i already know what my subconscious is (like i've said before, i know myself VERY well).

and it's certainly not "little".[|)] when i say that it is greater than i am, i'm talking greater as a wolverine is greater than a chipmunk. and it's more spiritually based than mentally (another, very good, reason why it couldn't be the subconscious).

i've never heard of a "shadow" self before timeless: is that more or less the same thing i was trying to get at when i talked about a possibility of a "lower" self?

also "In my experience higher self was a light that descended down from the ceiling", are you sure that's a "self" and not something else? like a very goodly guardian? cause by definition a self would be a part of you already and wouldn't have to "descend" into you. i'm rather curious; care to tell more on it?

~kakkarot

[kakkarot]

oh yeah, and the reason i'm "back" is just because this thread has to do with a part of what i'm trying to figure out. so i just thought i'd post and see what others views were. i'm afraid that i'm still not coming back "completely" just yet (i mean, come on, it's only been a couple of weeks).

take care. [|)][]

~kakkarot

(ps. timeless is a girl? i didn't know that[:I]. just read it in another thread. well that's cool. (too bad you're married though ))

[Parmenion]

Good to see you all the same mate.

Im sure timeless has mentioned the shadow in many threads but heres one to chew on for the moment.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4197&SearchTerms=shadow

Parmenion

[kakkarot]

thanks parmenion and timeless. i found it and read about it.

and yes i had "passed" that a long time ago.

~kakkarot

ps, his smug smile was the [^] a few posts up. oh wait: it's an "approve" smiley. doesn't look like one though .

[goingslow]

thats funny i know myself very well, but I know I dont know my sub conscious.  

If you know your subconscious very well then its not a subconscious.  By definition you cant know all thats in there.. and to think you know everything thats in your subconscious is actually very naive.

However, I dont think everyone was meant to really clean up their shadow self.  If people are happy and have no problem believing theres nothing they dont know about themselves.. then apparently they haven't reached the point they need to work on the subconscious.  

I dont understand still what makes something your higherself if its just as likely to do evil than good "just like we are".. And I dont think the higherself is something you feel inside you where you know its likely to do both evil and good.  Sounds like thats something completely different.  

btw timeless thanks for the comment.. []

[kakkarot]

boy, you are confused goingslow. :p

i didn't say that i knew EVERYTHING about my subconscious. just that i know myself very well.

"I dont understand still what makes something your higherself if its just as likely to do evil than good "just like we are"". well goingslow, that is the topic of discussion here: is the higher self goodly or just "higher"? (well it's really "Can the higher self be corrupted and deformed, just as our conscious/unconscious thinking can be?", but that's close enough)

if the definition of a "higher self" is that it is the perfection of every person, in a morally rightgeous sort of way, then what you are saying is true goingslow.[|)] however if the actual definition of the concept of "higher self" has nothing to do with morals, then attributing moral rightgeousness to it would be distorting the definition of what it is.

(errm, does this make sense?)

~kakkarot

[goingslow]

I actually erased that last part since I reread what you said.

I still dont understand why you would then call it higher.    Im actually talking about the words.  What would make it higher if it would just as easily do evil?  Whats your definition of "higher"?  

The higherself I'm talking about is the thing people have described at the end of the tunnel.  where they'll filled with love etc..

You passed your shadow? how did you go about passing it? did you use any techniques?

[goingslow]

Timeless,

I just came back from a human development class which is actually a psychology class.  Its funny because I have never heard her mention Jung before, but today she talked about his theory on adulthood.

I found it really interesting to hear her try to describe his theory.  I could tell she lost most of the class when she talked about collective unconscious.  I saw her look up with kind of a smile when she tried to describe what he thought it was.  It was the first time she has ever talked about him.  She even said, "we haven't talked about his theories yet so let me briefly go over it".  

I think Im going to read some of his work.  He would have had to sneak a lot of this theory in a way people would understand.  

I just thought it was ironic she introduced him today.

BTW I find the shadow concept interesting so Im glad you bring it up.
I know a lot of my shadow issues.. I know there are probably some I'll have to look very close at to catch.  I think hearing "he's so great, look at him isnt he amazing" etc is telling me about my ego and i guess external validation issues..  Wishful thinking would make me believe it thought I was great but Im trying to be realisitic =)

I need to read up more on the theories so I can discuss them without guessing on most things. Do you know of any good books on the subject?


have a good Evening

[kakkarot]

that's what i'm saying goingslow: should i really call such a thing a "higher" self since it is more in tune with the universe than i am or should i just call it a "greater" self. my definition of "higher" is something like "less consumed by the uselessness of unimportant things, in a spiritual sense". ie, it doesn't care about money cause money is worth nothing in a spiritual sense.

i'm, personally, going to just call it a greater self because trying to label it as a higher self makes it kind of bothered(?) by the connotation of moral rightgeousness that comes with the term "higher self".

"You passed your shadow?" yep

"how did you go about passing it?" erm, doesn't that defeat the purpose of passing it on your own? well if you want to know then read on, otherwise just skip to the next question. i beat it by understanding that it is a part of myself as surely as "i" am a part of myself, to it wasn't really a matter of "passing" or "beating" it but of accepting myself who i REALLY am, even the parts i may not like.

"did you use any techniques?" nope, just good old fashioned um... what would you call it? spiritual development? understanding and wisdom? meh, whatever. *as above*, there that solves it [].

~kakkarot

[jilola]

Probably the term "Higher self" is wrong. Call it Self.
Speaking for myself I don't view it as higher or lower to my physical sense. It is however a part of me that attempts to make me see the light, if you will.
Sadly the communication between a person and the person's Self is all to often muddled and the message a person receives and acts upon may be totally contrary to what was actually being said. Contrary in the way the message becomes our destructive actions and thoughts.

And really, now that we agree (lol) that the Higher Self is not really higher, it does become conceivable that it may be distorted just like the physical part of us. But does that translate to good vs. evil juxtaposition in the physical exiatence's frame of context is unclear.

The way I see life is that we need to learn certain lessons, such as destructive activity should be avoided. The way we learn is up to our free will. Thus a person may learn the lesson without doing anything desctructive or unharmonious while some other person chooses to commit a murder. The lesson is the same and is positive but the way we go throughit is us in the physical receiving the message and applying our free will to it thus in some cases completely missing the point.

timeless: Way to go! I'll be looking for a copy when it comes out of the printing press.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[goingslow]

""how did you go about passing it?" erm, doesn't that defeat the purpose of passing it on your own? well if you want to know then read on, otherwise just skip to the next question. i beat it by understanding that it is a part of myself as surely as "i" am a part of myself, to it wasn't really a matter of "passing" or "beating" it but of accepting myself who i REALLY am, even the parts i may not like."

-Oooh I see.. well I wouldnt exactly say knowing that information is in anyway cheating.  Actually every place you read says that what needs to be done.. its how to do it..

"nope, just good old fashioned um... what would you call it? spiritual development? understanding and wisdom? meh, whatever. *as above*, there that solves it ".

- I guess wisdom and understanding just come faster to some people..

Timeless,

congrats on the book thing.  I have a feeling its going to be a great story.