Proof Of God's Existence

[exothen]

There really is no proof of God's existence, but things such as morality, love, and joy can lead one to reasonably conclude that there is a God.

[Kerrblur]

I spent alot of time on my idea of a kind of 'proof' for God existing.  Thats why this thread is called "Proof of God's existence'  I hope you read it, lol yes i know its long but in my eye's it's proof enough that God does exist.

[volcomstone]

proof of god's existance is now and never.
here and nowhere

possible and impossible,

the before and after.

[Champollion FRC]

IMHO One can't prove the existence of God to anyone.You can talk about God till you are blue in the face, and quote all the world's scriptures. God needs to be experienced in our hearts, and language does not have the words to describe the indescribable. A good book to read on the subject is the classic Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Maurice Bucke.[]

[Rob]

Personally, I used to simply believe in God, but belief is not knowledge. Now, I KNOW God is real, because I have seen his effects first hand and directly. That is, He has answered prayer of mine, twice, instantly, and unmisseably in a very real physical fashion. However, these were not prayers such as "oh great God please prove your existance to me" - I have a feeling God wont furnish you with such proof if that is all thats on your mind. In my experience, when my prayers were answered it was more of a lesson on other things (I remember both very clearly - though I had to think for a minute on the first one!). And perhaps he was giving me some reassurance that he was there too []

However, these experiences of mine are entirely personal, and I would never use them to prove the existance of God to anyone else. Ultimately, even if I were to tell them to you people, you still wouldn't KNOW in terms of absolute proof, as it would only be second hand info.
Philosophy can give you hints, but it can only take you "so far" - there is very little absolute in philosophy ("I think therefore I am" and that is it!!!) - and anything which is not absolute cannot be considered proof.

It is my opinion that you should go out there and draw conclusions from your own life experience, and only your own life experiences. Because in the end, thats the best and only real proof you can rely on [].

Rob

[Kerrblur]

The vast majority of atheists or people who think they are atheists, when asked why they don't believe in God, say that it is because they cannot see Him – yet if the question is put to them whether they believe in love, will say yes, and mean it. We believe in love yet how many of us have seen it? Can it be held in one's hands? Can it be weighed? What colour is it? What shape is it? Can it be smelt? Or heard? "No", to all these questions. So how come that almost every man, woman and child alive believes in love, or atleast knows what we're talking about when we mention the word "love"? Not only that, but few people would wish to contemplate living without love – without loving or being loved by someone. So, if it is possible to believe in unseen love, why is it impossible to believe in God even if we cannot see Him? The
same applies to goodness: we all know what goodness is – we love people who have goodness in them.
The same applies to all the other qualities like courage, generosity, joy, humility, compassion, mercy, kindness, self control, humour, wisdom, patience, etc..... None of these are visible to the physical eye or any other physical sense. Yet we know they exist. We know also that human beings without these qualities would be impossible to live with. We feel them at work within ourselves and see them manifested in other people through their words, actions, facial expressions and speech. We fall in love with someone, and when asked why we love that person we say things like ... he's beautiful, good, kind, courageous, generous, honest ... in short we fall in love with those abstract qualities.

UNTOUCHABLE, UNSEEABLE
The Highest degree of Truth, Beauty, Honesty, Goodness, Courage, Patience, Generosity and so on – would have to belong to a person – superior to all human beings. The Divine Being who not only created all these qualities but whose very substance, whose whole make up is of goodness and mercy, truth and love. Call Him what you will. Most people call Him God – others call Him the Divine Spirit – The Cosmic Force – The Creator – The Almighty – The Omniscient – The Muslims call Him Allah – The Jews call Him Jehovah – The Zoroastrians call Him Ahura Mazda. The Hindus call Him Brahman – and you can call Him
what you will.
There are other things we can't see but have to admit they exist – we can't see air – but without it we would die. We can't see microbes – but they can kill us – and only recently have we been able to see them through a microscope.

EVER SEEN A PERSONALITY?
As for human relationships, no one can say he has seen another person. When you and I come face to face, and relate to each other, the truth is you see my body – but you don't actually see me, the inner entity that lives within my physical body. You hear me talking because I use my vocal chords – so – you hear my voice – you see me smile, see my gestures, catch my facial expressions, but you cannot actually see me, nor can I see you. We see God expressing Himself in Nature – when we look at a sunset or some special scenery we catch our breath and say "Oh – how beautiful". We enjoy the changing of the seasons, and wonder at the structure and growth of flowers and trees and gasp at the miracle of birth, thunder and lightning.. Some people see these things as God expressing Himself throughout Nature, creating, regenerating, and sustaining all living things, and know that though they cannot see Him, He manifests His presence in many ways – the planet He resides in, is alive, just as the body you reside in is alive – because you move it, nourish it and express yourself and communicate with others, through speech, action and expression. But just because you cannot see me, and can only conclude that I must be there, can you say that I don't exist? If you were not in your body, all I would see would be an inanimate corpse. When someone dies, we know they are dead – there's no-one left to respond – or to communicate with. All the physical parts are still there – the brain, lungs and liver, all the other organs and limbs are still there, but the actual conscious entity we call the "soul" – has left, passed over to the other side. So it is possible to see God in and through His Creation, even though our physical eyes are equipped to see only His physical creation. But we can feel Him inwardly, spiritually just as we can feel love inwardly, though with our physical eyes we cannot.
We conclude that there must be an Intelligent Force behind the created world. All the laws of nature, like the law of gravity, the law of change – mathematical laws, laws of musical harmony, etc – could not have been constructed and sustained by an idiot. If you showed me an expensive watch of the latest technology – that not only told the time, but the date, month & year, as well as a calculator thrown in, and an alarm that played a tune – a watch that was waterproof – able to withstand underwater pressure at great depth – and I said to you "this watch must have just come into being on its own – nobody made it – it just somehow put itself together" – would you not protest? Would you not be amazed that any intelligent person could come to such an unbelievable conclusion? You would be right in assuming that I was a complete idiot.

JUST BY CHANCE?
Do you not then find it even more astounding that some scientists and a small group of people spend their time trying to convince others as well as themselves that there is no God? No Creator who made the world and everything in it: that the heavens and the billions and billions upon billions of stars and constellations – all ordered and obeying the laws of gravitation and attraction – just happened to come into being in some kind of beg bang? Scientists are still trying to fathom what caused the big bang. These same scientists are those who take a flower apart, and teach us the names of each section – petals, calyx, stamen, stem, roots, cells, and sap – but when asked to put the flower back together again – find they cannot do so. On their list, they forgot to mention the most important item – the life force that kept the flower together as a living, growing multiplying entity; and yet they would have us believe that the whole, ordered, expanding universe is self made. When you look at a baby – breathing, growing, functioning perfectly, with every organ knowing its function – with its breathing, digestive and circulatory systems in perfect working order – can you really believe that there is no intelligent Creator who created this being? Scientists can name and make a list of every bone, every muscle and vein and cell and organ.
They are good at dissecting and making lists and publishing their findings. But always there is an item missing from their list. How many scientists do you know, after vivisecting an animal to discover its parts and what makes it work, have been able to put that poor little animal together again to make it live? No scientist, as yet, has been able to create even a mosquito. They can muck around with genes and call it "genetic engineering" but no scientist has ever produced a living creature out of thin air.

FROM AN ACORN TO A PLANET
How can one hold an acorn in the palm of one's hand, and know that when it is placed in the ground it will grow into a huge tree producing thousands of new acorns and leaves, without wonder? Yet in the palm of one's hand that acorn contains the blueprint of the whole magnificent tree – roots, trunk, branches, leaves, fruit – following laws of life, birth, growth and eventual decay – with each new acorn producing another fully-functional tree. Each dried bean, lentil or seed, however tiny – a magical, miraculous little box containing life – and a blueprint that will produce thousands more of the same when placed in the soil. Air, sun, water and earth all joining forces to help this little speck grow into a living, useful life-giving plant – which will produce thousands more seeds of its own species. What intelligence – what a miracle taking place right under our very noses. No – the most amazing thing of all is the fact that there are intelligent human beings out there who can't accept that there is a living creative intelligent force behind creation – they can call it God in any language – but will not admit that a creator exists – and more astounding still – they spend all their spare time and energy trying to convince everybody else that God does not exist.

LIFE IS?
Does life exist? Can a scientist convince anyone that life does not exist? They never mention it in their lists, because it cannot be seen, cannot be measured, cannot be weighed – cannot be touched. They don't teach people that Life doesn't exist. Why do they insist that the Creator doesn't exist? Because He can't be seen, touched, measured or weighed? Neither can life. Life – God, love. If life and love cannot be denied neither can God who works and manifests His existence in His creation, the God who is the origin of Life, the origin of Love. What is life? Who made life? Who made love? Who or what makes it possible for you to have life or experience love? Life is inside you, without it you would be dead – life-less. Love is also inside you. How many people can live without loving someone or something – parents, lover, child, wife, husband, sister, brother, friend, cat, dog, or other pet – or oneself. There is love, and like life, without love it would be impossible to live. Do we all go around saying "there is no life – I don't believe in life" or "there is no such thing as love – I don't believe in love"? Of course not – even plants thrive when treated with love – and wilt when love is absent – animals demonstrate unconditional love towards each other and human beings. We all know this – but how many of us can give an answer even if we are asked "what is life – what is love?" Can you tell me – what is life? What is love? You cannot – but you know, you live life, you feel love. The same with God – we cannot talk about Him, but we know Him – we feel Him. If we contain life and love – we contain God. When you feel love, you are feeling God. If God were not in you – you would be dead – He is part of your Life. But we cannot see Him and you want to see Him with your physical eyes. Do you expect to see music? No, you accept that music cannot be seen with physical eyes, but it can be heard and felt. Do you throw a tantrum because you can't smell a rose with your eyes?
No – you accept that perfume is experienced with the nose and the pleasure felt "inside" (like love). So it is with God – we feel Him – inside. He is our intelligence. He is our love, our life, our pleasure, our joy.
Can you define happiness? What is happiness? Can you see it? Buy it? Paint it? Photograph it? Weigh or measure it? God is happiness inside you: you feel it – can't smell it or see it – but feel it. Would you believe anyone who said "Happiness does not exits"? Why should you believe anyone who says "God does not exist"?

SURGICAL IMPRECISION
At a scientific conference at the University of California one atheistic scientist concluded his speech by saying, "and I can honestly say, Ladies and Gentlemen, that in all my years as a surgeon, I have looked into every muscle and every tendon and tissue and cell, but I have never found what you call the soul."
Whereupon another scientist rose in his seat and responded by saying, "Ladies and Gentlemen, in all the years I've spent as a neurosurgeon performing operations on every single part of the human brain, I have never encountered the mind. Does it then follow that the mind does not exist? Neither have I been able to find the imagination, nor the faculty of reasoning. I have never located consciousness or intuition. Does that mean that they do not exits either?" and he sat down. No-one refuted his contribution. He had made his point. We could of course add to his conclusions by pointing out that hypnotists and psychologists work exclusively with their patients' minds – healing some extremely severe cases of depression, schizophrenia and other mental disorders.

LOVERS
We could also consider the powerful effects of auto-suggestion where one can see the power of mind over matter – easily demonstrated by what happens when we visualise a lemon being squeezed – we automatically start salivating. Or if we hear a sudden noise at night and imagine an unseen danger approaching: the immediate effect this has on our physical body is that the heart accelerates its beat – we perspire – our breathing becomes short and quick – the blood drains from our face and we turn pale – our muscles tremble, the facial muscles twitch – we lose our voice. In extreme cases we could throw up or lose consciousness. But would the neurosurgeon be capable of finding the cause of all these symptoms? The fear we felt in the first place? Of course not. Neither can any surgeon find our soul – our real self, our spirit – living within the body. It is our soul that preys. It is the soul within each human body that expresses a deep desire for love and beauty and excellence. We are so critical of things, of people, of places and events and actions and works of art or music – because we are always anxious to encounter excellence. It is the soul that is thirsty for goodness and happiness, for kindness and all the qualities of the highest possible degree – in other words for God. The soul is restless until she encounters God. We fall in love with someone who expresses beautiful qualities – but when we meet someone else who possesses them to an even higher degree, we leave the first lover and turn to the second. Constantly restless – constantly seeking better and higher and more excellent qualities in a person. When we don't find what we're looking for we are dissatisfied and look elsewhere. The only person who possesses excellence to a super-human degree is God – all the qualities emanate from Him and permeate everything He made. But in this game of hide and seek, the soul looks for Him in people – in music, art or beautiful scenery. Only when she realises who her real eternal, unchanging, ever faithful, loyal loving lover really is, will she find lasting peace and joy. If we look at a beautiful landscape, we feel a deep sense of peace and pleasure, but as soon as we leave the place those feelings go. If, while looking upon that beautiful scene, we are aware that the beauty we see is the Beauty of the Creator who instilled that beauty into the scene, that the peace we feel is because we are aware of the actual presence of the Creator in that beauty and harmony, then we realize that it is a living Being that is touching our inner being and communicating with us, albeit without words – more like the communication of love and adoration that lovers can exchange without words – just by looking into each others' eyes, just by being in each others' presence. We are all united and connected by an invisible spiritual thread through which we can transmit Love, thoughts, feelings and positive healing energy. When we can experience this by looking at the world in this way, then we don't lose the peace and joy we have found, because we carry it within ourselves. All the time we remember that the source of all this beauty and love and wonder is right inside us – it never leaves us. It is a state of mind, a higher state of consciousness which can transform our whole life. Once we discover that the wonderful qualities that make us fall in love with someone, or want to befriend anyone, are right there inside our own self, indeed make up what we are, then we become able to look inwards and commune with our own heart.

WHOLE
Literature, religion, art, poetry, philosophy and psychology tell us over and over throughout our lives that, in order to be happy and fulfilled in life, we must become integrated, that is to say become whole again, piecing together the two parts of ourselves that have come unstuck as it were, so that we live in a schizophrenic state. Each study uses a different group of terminology to describe the process of putting the pieces together – but they are in fact describing the same thing. If we had a group of speakers addressing a multinational audience about the pursuit of happiness in French, English, Hebrew, Japanese, Chinese, German, Spanish and Arabic, each nationality would understand the speaker that used their own language. Each speaker, to an onlooker, would be making a different set of sounds and noises, but he or she would be talking about the same subject, namely "The pursuit of happiness". So it is with psychology, philosophy and religion. In psychology the two parts of the self are called the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. The two must come together in order to experience the
Superconscious state. Religion calls then God and the Soul – philosophy talks of Spirit and matter. The mystics talk of the Higher Self and the lower self or ego. Heart and mind. Mind looks outwardly into the material, non lasting unreal world; Heart deals with love and joy and peace – the lasting, spiritual, real world. They all tell us that in order to experience the heaven which lies inside each of us, we must unite the two aspects of ourself and become one with the Higher Self. Just as lovers suffer atrociously when they are separated by circumstances or disagreement, and only begin to live joyfully again when they are re-united, so the soul lives without joy or peace until she is once more united to her beloved – the God who lives right inside her – but because her attention has wandered out into the material world and got fixed there, she forgot the way back to her beloved. Like a bee trapped behind the window pane which keeps trying to get back to the rose, but cannot do so until it finds an opening to fly through – so the soul is for ever trying to get back to God. Man keeps falling in love with a woman – but it cannot last; woman keeps falling in love with a man – but that love can never last. Man keeps falling in love with man but that does not last either nor a woman falling in love with another woman. The only love that lasts is union of the soul with the real love in the very heart of oneself. When union takes place – the inner union and reconciliation between God and the soul – then only can you feel deep, lasting joy and peace of mind.
Then the outer and inner become one. When that happens, the world becomes a beautiful place, and we are able to love everyone, and the whole of life takes on a new meaning. All we need to do is to shift the focus of our awareness from the busy, frightening, frustrating nightmarish outer world to the Loving God waiting within for our return. We can communicate with Him and consult Him about problems in daily life, and share with Him all the joys and delights we experience. That's all it takes – a shift in consciousness.
Be aware of God's existence inside you. He is the love, joy, peace, patience, intelligence that you feel in your daily life. Communicate with Him, love Him – He is there waiting – waiting, waiting – for a word from you, for a glance from you, for you are His loved one! He is what you keep looking for in human beings and pleasurable experiences. When you walk through life with God – your heaven has already begun on earth. Try it and see!

PRAYER
People who have the habit of praying – talking to God as though He were their ever constant companion – find comfort, help, protection from danger and the solution to their most difficult problems. Millions of people testify to the efficiency of prayer, millions of people can't all be wrong – Prayer works for them and it can work for anyone with faith who is willing to give it a try. Almost six billion people cannot all be wrong!
Those who spend a lot of effort trying to unite their soul to God – to enter into loving communion with Him – are referred to as mystics.
Many young people who have been lured into taking drugs have had mystic experiences and will tell you of feelings of being in heaven and of feelings of union with God – of seeing lights and colours and beautiful scenery filled with marvellous flora and fauna – and walking and talking with heavenly beings.
But they come back to earth with a bump and then do everything they can – spend all they've got – to procure drugs so that they can repeat the experience.
Getting into the higher states of consciousness by taking drugs is like getting in through the back door – the way in is through loving God, keeping His commandments and communicating with Him through prayer. Drugs only destroy a person's brain cells which can lead to insanity, depression – ill health and death. It has however given many young people a taste of liberation from normal states of earth-bound, materialistic consciousness, and an experience of what the state of ecstatic communion with the Higher Self is like, and given them proof that the kingdom of heaven really is within ourselves. Many of them have sensibly come off drugs – and chosen the safer surer path of loving prayer.
The human mind is a great mystery – and there are a great many aspects and functions of it that we cannot understand yet. Psychology as a science has only just begun to scratch the surface in its study of
the human mind. We cannot understand or explain phenomena such as how psycho kinesis, telepathy,
prophecy, clairvoyance, Imagination, Intuition or dreams work, or the power of mind over matter.
We observe that there is activity inside each one of us which mends our bones when they are broken,heals our wounds and burns and bruises, forces us to breathe in and out, digests our food, makes our heart beat, our blood circulate and all our organs and glands keep functioning, creates a new baby in the mother's womb – causes it to grow and pushes it out to be born into the world at the appointed time. We cannot see this force but we can feel it working inside us. Some call it God!
Now, people who have achieved Self integration, or Self realization or God realization, are the ones who have succeeded through constant sincere loving prayer and communication with God, without having recourse to taking drugs, have sometimes written books about their experiences in order to help others – to make it easier for them on their chosen spiritual paths. The mystic and transcendental poets – the prophets of all ages: they are the lucky ones who, once having reached the ecstatic state of Super consciousness, have tried to share their discoveries with us – and brought new messages of hope and instruction to encourage us to take the road back to God. Some people scoff and reject what they have to say – others take heed of their words and start a new life in the Spirit. It isn't difficult to guess which of the two groups find love joy and peace as a result.
Now that you have read my article I suggest that you close your eyes and let what you have read sink in – then read it again. You might find that with each reading some other point may have an impact, which you had not noticed previously.
This information has just been a short outline to help you eliminate any doubts and obscurities about the existence of God. I hope it will help you find peace – and joy – as you realize his presence in your own self as in the world surrounding you.
May God be with you.
May He calm your troubled mind and bring you Peace of Mind.
May He fill your heart with peace and love.
May you find never ending joy.
Place your hand in His.
Place life's burdens at His feet.
Let Him work in your Life.
Rest in His will.
You need not struggle.
Remember Him. Praise Him. Thank Him. Love Him. He will bless and protect you – Run to Him and He will run to meet you.
From then on your whole life and all your relationships will take on a new and wonderful meaning. But see to it that once you acknowledge Him and open your heart – that you remain constantly faithful, and He will be faithful to you in the same measure as you are faithful to Him.
N.B. When you have a clear picture in your mind – and you feel you want to know more about God – you could start reading the Bible, the Old Testament, The New testament, The Koran, or The Kabala; or you could study the Scriptures of whichever religion you already belong to, in order to deepen your knowledge and understanding!

DEFINITION OF GOD
To many an article of this sort will be quite acceptable, but others, who are a little more widely read, might want to look more closely at the assumptions behind the text.
To paraphrase the first paragraph, it says that abstract properties exist within responsive physical systems - people, such states are not directly observable, outside our internal experience, and affect us.
They may be inferred to cause or influence behaviour of others, in the same way that they do for the self.
They can be tested when it is possible to interact with the individual who possesses them. We are then asked to consider the possibility that such states exist in nature, beyond the individual, that things seem to be governed by them. No precise suggestion is yet made as to how these non-physical states of 'God' will affect the natural world or our inner world.
Most intelligent people would not expect that there always has to be a concrete representations of every abstract thing. This is not to say that it is impossible to create illustrative examples of most abstract concepts.
To remove this confusion then, perhaps we should start with a definition of God that makes this clear.
An abstract non-material information processing system or 'superconscious' capable of interacting with our minds and physical reality, a collective consciousness, a system capable of representing and using the Platonic perfect Forms such as perfect love, joy, peace, patience, intelligence etc.
If we accept that abstract properties such as courage, generosity, etc can exist without being seen or sensed we are left with two obvious questions. Where are these concepts represented in a given case and what is their range of influence? Some would hold that there are many separate representations in our individual brains, that they are caused by influences transmitted through the sensory modes and they range as far as those who know of the original outward manifestation, and believe that it represent the truth of what is seen. From this viewpoint the individual experiences in different brains are distinct and only united if there is ongoing feedback between the individuals. This is similar to the communication between the different parts of the brain that binds them together into one individual.
Others will believe that these abstract properties have a greater significance. That the beauty in nature has a reality that is perhaps more than the sum of the atoms and photons of which the system is composed. The presence of an observer is not necessary. In this view, the unobserved or chaotic elements of the system are constrained by its abstract properties. These higher states, if they have such power, may be able to interact directly with other such states, possibly those similar ones in the minds of people, but they affect the physical system. There may, under certain conditions, be more than the one way interaction which informs us of what we see.
The second paragraph asserts that the Platonic perfect Forms have significance in this abstract world.
The next paragraph gives some examples of things that were once regarded as abstract but are now seen to be physical. This seems to be an ongoing process in physics today, abstract mathematical concepts are seen as reality.
The fourth paragraph elaborates on the interaction between the abstract and the physical world. It emphasises the importance of interaction when modelling abstract ideas. It asserts that some believe that abstract forms guide the real world. According to this belief system, there are interactions between the abstract states associated with each natural object, these are analogous to the nerves in the body. It proposes that natural processes are influenced by these invisible processes to such an extent that life on the Earth would cease if they were no longer active. This picture of all life as a body, or Gaia, then paradoxically seems to become a metaphor because he says that this has to be felt inwardly rather than seen with our eyes.
The next paragraph is rather weakly argued. Psychokinesis is, perhaps, evidence for an intelligent force; see later. It is open to question whether the physical and mathematical laws were created or are sustained. Most of us would agree that 2+2=4 has not been constructed because there was no choice in the result, similarly there is no maintenance necessary. The same may apply to the laws of nature. A more interesting case where there may be more flexibility is with the actual values of the physical constants. It might be a little unwise to draw conclusions about God from speculations of this type. It does not take any account of recent understanding and inquiry into the process of evolution. Lastly it proposes an argument that by extension denies the possible existence of God.
Paragraph six. Here we are presented with the existence of a group of people who use close-minded thought and ideas that have been internalised without criticism. This seems to be an attribute shared by most, if not all, humans so is, perhaps, not really very surprising.
We see the argument that sheer large numbers must be evidence. To put this in perspective, consider the infinitely greater number of positive integers!
The next argument is that humans are not technically proficient in some areas and that this lack of control argues for the idea of God. It is true that a religious explanation is more common in societies that have little control over their environment.
The idea of a life force is interesting; it has been used throughout Chinese medicine. There is some evidence that these energy pathways in the body may be responsible for anomalously high transport rates. There are also some well-authenticated accounts of spiritualist mediums being able to temporarily reshape some of the matter from their body.

EVOLUTION
Evolutionary methods may be a more efficient way to produce complex systems than thought out designs. Any design will depend on in-depth understanding of molecular environments and interactions. It is possible that it will prove to be difficult to represent and process all the information necessary to design a new form of life. In this case, some testing would be needed and the method could then be classified as evolutionary, at least in part. It is interesting that an argument for creation without the use of evolutionary methods is being made.
There is evidence that psychic phenomena can cause rapid growth and genetic changes to plant tissue.
As we do not yet have any idea as to the mechanisms involved, it is difficult to assign them to the design or evolutionary categorisation. If some form of quantum superposition of states were involved, would this be evolution or design?
Again in the next section we see the argument presented that complexity implies God. It is a misunderstanding to believe that evolution implies that God does not exist. Perhaps different people have various reactions to the idea that they are being 'loved' by an intelligent system – or that the world is an emotionally cold place. It is common for people to want to control others before they understand themselves, reason is often treated as an afterthought.
It is possible to interact with and measure living things much more easily than the processes connecting abstract states to the physical world i.e. 'the expression of God'. Perhaps some of the criticisms are based on flaws in the arguments for God. It has to be said, however, that many people would not be interested in fine argumentation. Parapsychology seems to be concerned with phenomena that could be
of relevance to the discussion. The idea of extra sensory perception raises problems over evidence for survival beyond death. On the other hand, some method has to be proposed for conveying relevant information to the recipient, when positive results do occur. This, and other phenomena involving biological changes in living systems, and perhaps also the rare cases of transmutation through psychokinesis, do suggest that the more abstract information associated with thinking plays some role in the
physical world. The author's frustration with presenting arguments becomes apparent, more examples and analogies are used.
The next paragraph outlines some of the ideas often presented in the Eastern religions. Prayer is a practical application of the theory that there is a direct link between thought and matter that bypasses the nervous system.



To summarise, a lot has been discovered recently about evolution and complexity. It is now known that simple non-linear systems are capable of great complexity. Complexity or large numbers do not necessarily imply intelligent design. Both can arise from the application of simple rules. Technologists now use evolutionary methods as part of product development, so that it is not necessary to design everything from the top down. It is easy to see these processes at work creating highly specialised results, both in the lab and in nature. Accordingly, many would think it a great mistake to argue that the existence of complexity implies that there has been a process of intelligent design at work. We now understand that selective breeding can produce highly specialised systems in a variety of contexts. In fact, the use of this argument would imply that God would have had to be designed or could never have arisen. Evolution is not somehow anti God. There is a more subtle point. All of the processes with which we are familiar exist within spacetime. It may be that our concept of time and causality is too limited and that other theories will be developed which may invalidate an attempt to extrapolate from the type of
systems with which we are familiar.