Regarding christianity....

[aryanknight666]

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[exothen]

[:O]

aryan,

You have a problem with Christianity but you call aninfinity's post "interesting?"

quote:Agreee of disagree?

Disagree, with most of it (your initial post).

quote:are you a christian?

Yes.

 

quote:Possibly more people have killed in the name of christ then in any other cause.

Not very likely. I would say Communism has Christianity beat by tens of millions.

quote:The teachins of christianity are damaging and anti-life.

Which ones in particular - "love your neighbor as yourself"; "consider others better than yourself"; "as long as it depends on you, live at peace with everybody"? Any others?

quote:Just what good has christianity done for the world?

How about you look around. Christianity's influence is everywhere, but you probably don't even know it.

quote:The judeao-christian good demands blood sacrifice; human and animal sacrifice, cannablism, even vampirism....There are direct instructions from the god yahweh to the hebrews, of blood sacrifice; human and animal, flesh eating and blood drinking....There are plenty of instances in the bible of rape, torture and mass murder in the bible on the behalf of god. Some of these atrocities are committed by angels themselves.

Care to provide chapter and verse for any of that, other than the animal sacrifice, of course?

quote:He encouraged his disciples to buy swords.

Chapter and verse, please.

quote:He was a drunk and he mistreated women.

I would really like to see your proof of this.

It really shows that you have a very poor understanding of the Bible and Christianity. I'm curious: did your poor understanding of Christianity come before or after you left the Church?

quote:JOY OF SATAN

There's an oxymoron.

[aryanknight666]

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[exothen]

AK,

You are a feisty one.

quote:Back that up, please.

Sure. How about I post the estimates for those killed by Communism, and then you can post the estimates of those killed by Christianity to back up what you stated?

Here is a site that states 100 million which were killed under Stalin and Lenin alone:
http://www.victimsofcommunism.org/

Add to that those killed under Mao's dictatorship in China and you have over 130 million killed. You can find more under the following as well:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/museum/faqframe.htm

Let's see your numbers.

quote:Supression of sexual urges, supression of natural emotions such as hate, lust, anger, etc, turning the other cheek to everything everyone does to each other and one and other, abolishing justice and gradually leading to the collapse of society, self-denial, convincing yourself everyone, including you, is guilty before god, convincing yourself you should avoid everything that isn't biblical lest you roast in hell for an eternity, constantly thinking and mourning about death, constantly being afraid of satan and demonic deceptions and attacks, treating the natural human character, feelings and nature as "sin", as evil, etc.

Christianity teaches self-control, which is a good thing. Christianity does not teach that one must turn the other cheek on everything, that is absurd. As for abolishing justice and collapsing society, you surely must be joking. Do you have any proof that societies collapse due to Christian teachings?

Please, if you are going to debate Christianity, don't put up a strawman of it. Your perception of Christianity is very, very wrong. But you're a Satanist, so it's expected.

quote:Haha, are you pulling my leg? you bet I don't even know it? ...need I say more?

No, you needn't say more; you've said too much. You completely misunderstood the point I was making and proved that you really don't know the influence of Christianity upon the world.

quote:old, frail, ill-looking ministers and nuns hobbling around, angry, fat, old, bold middle aged christians waddling down the drive way shooing off the dogs and the neighbourhood kids

How does "old, frail, ill-looking,...angry, fat, old, bold (I'm assuming you meant "bald") middle aged" have anything to do with Christianity? I suppose all the Satanists are the good-looking people while all the Christians are the ugly ones? Please, if you want to debate, do it intelligently and in a mature manner. From your posting so far, I view Satanists as immature, irrational, unthinking individuals.

Early Christianity strongly opposed the culturally acceptable practices of infanticide, infant abandonment (which lead directly to the Christian founding of orphanages), abortion, gladiator shows, human sacrifice, and suicide. Christianity elevated sexual morality far above what was common in Greco-Roman culture.

Christianity brought freedom and dignity to women that was previously unknown in Greco-Roman and Hebrew cultures. More recently, Christianity influenced the abolishment of foot binding in China.

Christianity also massively influenced health care and the development of hospitals. Although there is some evidence of the existence of some form of hospitals in Greco-Roman society, Christianty was the first to institutionalize hospitals and actually build hospitals for the purpose of taking care of the sick. It is also worth noting that Christian hospitals were the world's first voluntary charitable organizations. Also, medical nursing is a Christian invention.

Christianity was the first to provide education for both males and females in the same setting as well providing education regardless of social class or ethnicity. It was Martin Luther's idea to make education mandatory. Monastaries developed the institution of univerity.

Perhaps you have heard of the Protestant Work Ethic. Need I mention that the societies which were (are) the most advanced and capitalistic were overwhelmingly Christian?

I could go on about a great number of things yet as well as go into greater detail on any number of the subjects I have already spoken about. Be very thankful you live in a Christian society, very thankful. Nearly everything you have, including your freedom, is due in large part, if not only, to Christianity.

I'll have to respond to your Scripture "evidence" later as this went on longer than I intended.

[aryanknight666]

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[MJ-12]

km

[exothen]

AK,

quote:Buddhism teaches self control; christianity doesn't. Do you know a psychiatric opinion of how damaging christianity can be? constantly feeling guilty about yourself, denying oneself, supressing natural feelings and urges.

Are you even reading what you are writing? You have totally contradicted yourself. Buddhism and Christianity are very similar in their approach to self control which is mainly through "denying oneself," and "supressing natural feelings and urges." If Satanism promotes expression of all natural feelings and urges, then it is indeed extremely harmful and without any self control whatsoever.

quote:How can you say that judeao-christianity was against human sacrifice? what a joke.

They were against the human sacrifices committed by the pagans in their temple worship to their gods.

quote:Before going off and googling satanism

It was a swipe at you, which was made pretty clear.

quote:Christians don't think for themselves, full stop, their religion forbids them to do this.

On the contrary, we are told to study to show ourselves approved and to think for ourselves.

quote:the notion that the constitution and freedoms of the united states, and democracy, are due to christianity, is FALSE.
'The VERY FIRST AMMENDMENT of the constitution is based on the Separation of church and state.

How does the separation of church and state prove that freedom due to Christianity is false? The nation was founded on Christian principles and it is through Christianity that capitalism came about, in large part anyway.

quote:You beleive the whole concept of christianity is "love" and what not, am I correct?

Love is the central and highest virtue of Christianity. Love for God first, love for fellow man second.

quote:have you, as a christian, personally read the bible cover to cover, or in any actual depth,

I have read it cover to cover several times and am currently in school taking Christian Studies which is heavy in theology and biblical interpretation.

quote:Even preists and nuns are tired and old, not seeming to have any real fullfilment.

People grow old, it's all a part of the "life cycle." Spiritual work and Christian work are very hard on a person, but that doesn't mean there is no fulfillment. It is more difficult than most people realize.

quote:rather then listening to some tired old man with erectile incompetence wheezing about?

Here you go again with this nonsense. What does this have to do with Christianity? Grow up.

I noticed you didn't bother to back up your previous statement ("Possibly more people have killed in the name of christ then in any other cause") or respond to the evidence which you requested.

[aryanknight666]

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[aryanknight666]

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[James S]

Oh hell, I'm probably going to get yelled at for wading into this debate but.....

It's not that I dislike Christianity per se....I dislike religion!

It's been noted that in tribal societies, such as remote pacific island nations, isolated African and South American tribes, that have not yet been exposed to the "laws and morals" of christianity, there is no such thing as sex crimes.  Rape, sexual abuse, molestation, prostitution, etc, don't exist in these societies. This is because they have not been taught to repress sexuality, as our society teaches every one of our children as they are growing up. Their "hethen" way of life allows sex and sexuality to be expressed as a perfectly normal and natural human function. It's not about self-control. Its only the religions that tell us it is.

If you don't repress something, it never becomes enough of an issue that it needs to be controlled.

[]
James.

[aryanknight666]

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[0]

I know you think your being picked on aryanknight, but you must realize the things you are saying you seem (SEEM) to be trying to convince others are set in stone, the way you percieve them and are correct in any sense of the word.

I think you have too much hostility towards faith in anything besides what you believe.

I think you have researched and are knowledgable up to a point, and are intelligent enough to point out certain fallicies, yet are unwilling to see your own when you phrase them. (If you want to ask what exactly those faults are, just read back. Im not going to satisfy any passionate response by researching your words.)

I think that although you have said you regret coming into these forums, you enjoy it because;
1) There is a part of you which hopes can change the opinion of even one person concerning the areas of subject which you seem to get so easily upset about.
2) You are just trying to get others angry, whether it is to A) Spur them into rethinking their own beliefs or B)just because you get a thrill out of it.
3) You are getting frustrated because though you present decent arguements once every while, you are still being proven wrong at every turn(or at least in others opinions).
4) Your bored.
5) You havent necessarily gotten out much to experience these things as much as you would like us to believe.
6) You have some alterior motive.

Im not saying any or all of these are right. Its just what it seems like to me.
I should let ya know though, that in one area concerning those topics I just brought up, you have changed my opinion about something.
You have shown me just how useless it is to get to offended about these things, and to be so hostile towards history and other peoples opinions and beliefs.

just so ya know though, if thats what you really think buddhism is about, you have no idea what true spirituality is and I am sorry for you.

We are not given by any means, the intelligence we have, in order to justify ourselves to anyone.
We are however given our fragile selves, in order to come to terms with those faults and mistakes we make along the way.
History you can never prove unless you go back in time my friend. Even books and classes and people who lived up to a certain point, can only give you details, from one point of view. Dont be so certain of everything you think you know.

Those who have the most knowledge and wisdom, are those who realize that they have none.

[aryanknight666]

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[aryanknight666]

Oh, I see.
How I understand Buddhism:
The beleif system according to the buddha shakyamuni's teaching; the virtuos and perfect teaching, its goal being to break through delusion and to acheive Annuttara-Samyak-Sambodhi, the perfect complete enlightenment. The Perfect Complete Enlightenment can be described as three levels, Arhats, Bodhisatvas and Buddhas. This first is "proper Enlightement", where the afflictions of rights and wrongs of others, greed, anger, ingorance and arrogance are severed, and where no wandering, discrimantory thoughts are harboured. Then "Equal and proper enlightenment". Equal means equal to the buddha, but not yet having become a buddha. This level is higher than that of an arhat. One who acheives Ewual and proper enlightenment is a bodhisattva. Perfect Complete Enlightenment, that is buddhahood.
A buddhist recognises the five guildines of of practice; The three conditions, the six harmonies, the three learnings, and the six paramitas of principles. There is also the ten good conducts and the ten great vows of universal bodhisattva..and the five niyama, which are;
Utu Niyama,
Bija Niyama,
Kamma Niyama,
Dhamma Niyama,
Citta Niyama.

Of these five, the physical inorganic order, the physical organic order and the order of the norm are more or less of the mechanical type though they can be controlled to some extent by human ingenuity and the power of mind. For example, fire normally burns, and extreme cold freezes, but man has walked unscathed over fire and meditated naked on Himalayan snows; horti-culturalists have worked marvels with flowers an fruits; and Yogis have performed levitation. Psychic law is equally mechanical, bud buddhist training aims at control of mind, which is possilbe by right understand and skilful volition.

Buddhism aims ultimatley at the escape of samsara, and thus the nibbanna or the buddha realm, in which a buddha or boddhisattva must still cultivate to accumulate good kamma, for when he incarnates, which he will only do by choice, only to help sentient beings.
Buddhism is not considered religion, nor philosophy as there is no subject and object, rather it is an education, of the buddha shakyamuni.
Compassion, wisdom, understanding.

Any problems?

[aryanknight666]

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[0]

I dont have a problem with your research into things.
I dont have a problem with how you view buddhism.

It seems though you are trying to convince me(and others?) you know anything about spiritualism just through words. Any child can pick up a book, search the web, or ask people.

Its not about those things though. Its about what it means to you, without the play by play from sources you are reading from.


YOu know what buddhism means to me?


It doesnt mean the literal translations you can read anywhere.

It means searching in one aspect, the heart of any matter you have left behind which plagues you.

It means looking onto the course of which you walk and seeing behind you, noticing where you are and being comfortable with any obstacles you come upon.

It means finding the path to forgiveness and awareness of yourself, by accepting your fragility.

It means love.




man, please dont be so serious about something that should come naturally to us all.
You can live in your darkness or you can live in your light or you can do both with acceptance of what will come.

Just accept the fact that everyone, no matter the proof they think they may have, will differ and oppose in one way, or the other.

Just remember, when you read and try and learn things, it is not in order to debate. It is in order to gain that knowledge, and evolve.
If you still want to argue this, then by all means, read on and scribe what you read, because it seems to be doing you a lot of good.

[Logic]

quote:Originally posted by aryanknight666

quote:it is through Christianity that capitalism came about, in large part anyway.

Not at all. Cut the crap.

Actually, it was christians who invented the concept of banking in North America.

AK, you have thrown yourself into an endless debate, that is until a moderator closes the topic.

[aryanknight666]

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[aryanknight666]

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[0]

fine, if thats what you want to think.

You know, you are just so draining to talk to. So opposed to everybody.

I made it clear in the post that things I commented on were what were seemingly clear to me, seemingly. Meaning what it felt to me. Not what it was.

I meant that by reciting anything you may or may not have studied about buddhism, means nothing unless you apply it. Have you lived the buddhist life?
No?
Then I could care less what you know. Because you truly dont. I dont, and anyone who has not lived it, have no idea. Spirituality is not about the things you learn from books or teachers. It is about what you feel and live as a person.

Stop being so gosh darn factual. It means NOTHING!!!
Anyone can repeat what they read, it does not mean your a scholar by any means.




I hope that one day you look at the people walking by you and understand with the smell of their clothes, or look of their expression or watchful gaze or stride they walk in, that the moments in which you reside, whether they are full of hostility or acceptance, are the moments which build who you are and will be.

Go on and keep telling me and others what you have read and what can be proved. Cause it means a lot to us you know. How someone can be so damned persistant and deaf to others opinions.
I have made it clear of the things of which I had thought of you, and not all of them are bleak, in fact I made it a point to converse the positives, yet you keep pushing this forced defiance of self onto others. Stop it, its not difficult to just accept what is, man. Please. Please. Please. Be a person for a moment, and not just an angry recorder.

Im sorry, Im drinking and when I drink I become passionate myself, but so much more understanding of what we are as people. Faulty.

[exothen]

AK,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I suddenly have so much to do (thanks to procrastination), that I shouldn't even be posting this (a little procrastinating never hurt anyone []).

quote:He encouraged his disciples to buy swords:
Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27

Look also at Luke 9:3 and 10:4. In both instances Jesus tells his disciples to take nothing - no staff, no extra clothes or sandals, not even money. But notice in Luke 22 it is during the Last Supper, after which he will no longer be with them, and so he tells them to prepare by taking with them swords and money. They only had two swords and Jesus said that was enough.

quote:Jesus was a drunkard:
matt 11:19

Matt. 11:18-19, '18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, `He has a demon!' 19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."'

First, notice that Jesus is contrasting John's actions with what people thought of John. Second, Jesus contrasts that with what he was doing and what people were saying about him. There is not even implied in those verses that Jesus was a drunkard. If you look at the whole context of chapter 11, Jesus is speaking to the people about their inability to recognize who John and he really were.

quote:Jesus mistreated women:
john 2:4
john 19:26

I don't see how either verse proves your point in the slightest.

quote:human sacrifice
II Samuel 21
21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib'e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.
21:9 And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib'e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.

None of this is promoting "human sacrifice." A famine was in the land as judgement from God because Saul did something he was not supposed to do by trying to annihilate the Amorites (Gibeonite decendents). The Gibeonites are the ones who wanted to kill seven of Sauls decendents as revenge for the attempted annihilation. This is by no means God demanding human sacrifice.

quote:Exodus 22:29 "Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."

LOL! I can see what you are thinking and why you thought that way, but you are way off. The firstborn male was, and still very much is, extremely important to each family. God is simply saying that each firstborn male was to be consecrated to Him.

Exodus 13:2, "Sanctify to Me every firstborn, the first offspring of every womb among the sons of Israel, both of man and beast; it belongs to Me."

quote:cannibalism:
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
28:55
So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

God is not demanding cannibalism. If you read all of chapter 28, God tells the Israelites the blessings they will receive for obedience and the curses for disobedience. This passage is prophetic of what would happen in a siege because it would all there is left to eat. For the actualization of this, read 2 Kings 6:24-29.

I spent longer on this then I anticipated. I'll get to the rest another day (just don't hold your breath [] ).

[exothen]

AK,

quote:Joshua Chapter 10- Nothing but mass murder
Judges 1:1- 18 More bloodbaths and mass murder

It's called war. People die. And, yes, as judgement God helps out the Israelites' cause.

quote:Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

Again, no murder, no rape. God declares war on the Midianites (vs. 1) because they seduced the Israelites to engage in sexual immorality and to worship the Baal of Peor (see 25:16-17).

quote:Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NLT)

This is regarding taking a female captive to be one's wife. The Israelites took captives and got taken captive, such was the nature of war back then. But God never condones rape, ever.

quote:Repeat after me: "It is my opinion, as a christian, that the statement/in the statement the joy of satan, there is an oxymoron"

The way you post in here proves my point. []

James,

quote:It's been noted that in tribal societies, such as remote pacific island nations, isolated African and South American tribes, that have not yet been exposed to the "laws and morals" of christianity, there is no such thing as sex crimes. Rape, sexual abuse, molestation, prostitution, etc, don't exist in these societies. This is because they have not been taught to repress sexuality, as our society teaches every one of our children as they are growing up. Their "hethen" way of life allows sex and sexuality to be expressed as a perfectly normal and natural human function. It's not about self-control. Its only the religions that tell us it is.

If you don't repress something, it never becomes enough of an issue that it needs to be controlled.

Some errors in reasoning in there.

First, just because there are no sex crimes and Christian morals and laws haven't been taught there, doesn't mean that there is a direct correlation. It may be that they aren't exposed to pornography; it may have nothing to do with unrepressed sexuality. Second, those sex crimes you mentioned happened long before Christianity arrived on the scene. Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do. Fourth, do you think cannibalism ever needed to be controlled? Things are repressed for a reason, and that reason is usually because it needs to be controlled.

[James S]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

Some errors in reasoning in there.

First, just because there are no sex crimes and Christian morals and laws haven't been taught there, doesn't mean that there is a direct correlation. It may be that they aren't exposed to pornography; it may have nothing to do with unrepressed sexuality. Second, those sex crimes you mentioned happened long before Christianity arrived on the scene. Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do. Fourth, do you think cannibalism ever needed to be controlled? Things are repressed for a reason, and that reason is usually because it needs to be controlled.

No, the reasoning is sound.

The only reason sex and sexuality is controlled in our societies is because we've been told it has to be controlled. Don't you see? In our society pornography is rampant because sexuality and sexual expression is so strictly controlled by the churches, not just the Christian church either. One of the most beautiful and wonderful experiences God ever gave to humans is now frowned upon unless it is done "according to the rules". If anyone does not act exactly according to those lengthy and limiting rules, they are considered to be acting immorally.

Yes the sex crimes were on the scene long before Christianity, but Christianity has taken its regulations from the jewish religions that came before it that also sought to control peoples behavior. Many other religions have also sought to impose such regulations on cultures. What better way to control people than to regulate their basic human needs and pleasures?

"Third, just because something appears to be natural and normal, doesn't mean that it is right to do."
Oh my, this is without a doubt one of the best examples of the brainwashing of religions.
Have you ever considered that if something was natural, it was that way because God deemed it to be that way?

As to cannibalism, well, the same argument can be applied to a whole slew of different topics, but there is always one question that should be asked in any "moral" situation. That question is NOT "is this permissible", or "is this the right or wrong thing to do according to whatever guidelines?" The correct question should be in all cases "what would I do if I act out of love?" If love is always considered, controlling rules and regulations become unnecessary, as people will naturally do what's best for all involved.

Kind regards,
James.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:Yes the sex crimes were on the scene long before Christianity, but Christianity has taken its regulations from the jewish religions that came before it that also sought to control peoples behavior.

Even Sumerian texts deal explicitly with people being punished for the way they handle their sexuality, and this was back thousands of years BC. Maybe this is the actual root, since Hebrews did take after those who took after the Sumerians. I'm tempted to say that every culture that didn't come from this line of Sumerian culture is devoid of such repression (pacific islanders, etc.), but I'm sure there are exceptions.

[Aileron]

Id like to say that whatever is deemed as needing to be controlled, is only so because of

A) Society is under its own opinion that God says so, or because it is obviously better for humanity for whatever reason and

B) The individual under their own opinion of God saying so, because it is better for humanity, and/or good for the individual.


Things dont need to be controlled until we say so for whatever reason we may have.


I agree with james, I dont think that main stream society would have had the problems it has now if so many things hadnt been repressed.
There are so many examples of this all over the world relating to different issues.

Humans, as an intelligent species, usually tend to know the difference between right and wrong and without being told, will tend toward the better choice, yet when faced with regulation and repression of action comes revolt, sedition, rebellion, anything to act out against the wall that is placed in front of a person.


Pretend there you are part of a group of people standing near a lake filled with fish. People will naturally take use of this lake but in moderation.
Now imagine a wall is suddenly placed in front of your group of people with only allowance for a stream, a tiny stream to ebb through underneath with only a few fish to swim it.
Time will pass and you will think to yourself this is a good way to regulate the use of the water and the fishing.
But as time passes you see more and more use of the stream. The fish coming through are not enough, and you are realizing that deep and reflective thought which concerns what has come of the lake on the other side of this wall.
You decide you should at least see it, perhaps to at least check on it. But as you climb, you notice others climbing as well. You climb faster.
When you get to the top you dont even spend the time looking out over the vast beauty of what is before you because you are too concerned about those others who will get to the top as well. So you jump down and begin your decimation, your overindulgence of the lake which has developed over time you realize, to become a need for what the lake offers you.
The wall comes down, but by then it is too late. The fish in the lake are gone or poisoned, and the water itself is contaminated because of overuse and abuse.

This is obviously just a generally simplistic view of the issue, but nonetheless it reveals what potentially people will do if kept from the things they once didnt realize they wanted so badly.