some questions for all you Buddhists!

[fallensky]

I'm buddhism but i don't know if i'm a true buddhist as u would say. The only thing i can say about buddhism and it's philosophy is that all philosophy some how can be consider contradicting in someone's eyes. so all u can do is study all the so called religions and interpret your own belief... it could be a mixture of many kinds. all i see the teachings of any "religion" as is human kindness and to me commen sense of life moral's. I personally don't believe in the wheels of life or nirvana in perticular. but i do believe that doing good will result in good. i don't meditate but i would consider a time of peace and thought is meditating. so =/
Fallensky

[Gandalf]

Hi all!

I've been reading up a bit on Buddhism recently, as its one religion I have never really examined in any detail.
However, after reading a lot of Buddist material on the web I am stumped and confused by a few concepts and was wondering if any *actual* Buddhists might be able to explain them a little better:

1) 'The soul': From what I have read, buddists regard everything as illusion and ever changing, including ourselves, which I dont have a problem with.
However, they seem to imply that our 'consciousness' is also illusion and they do not believe in any kind of 'soul' as such, rather they believe in energy forms.
One site I read stated that at death, all the different energies that make up the illusion of the 'mind' such as 'visual energy', 'audible energy' and so on disperse and go their different ways. This implies that the sentient individual disapears forever at death.

However at the same time these texts talk of the 'wheel of life' and how 'sentient beings' travel through succesive lives in various realms, through the process of reincarnation.
How can this be so if the elements that make up our minds (or illusion of mind) disperses. How can Buddhism talk about 'sentient beings' at all when their doctrine appears to suggest that such 'sentient beings' are pretty much an illusion?

Of course I am probably misinterpreting this so any clarification would be helpful. It also appears to be the case that there are several branches of Buddhism, all with differing views on this subject. All the sites I have read appear to 'fudge' over the issue of the 'soul' or what happens to an individual at death.

2) The Brahman: The All.
This is a fairly common concept which I like, However is it the case that when an 'emlightened one' merges with the 'All', they lose all sense of their individuality?
This is what I thought before, however, the Buddha (Sid) appears to have various powers and to be able to communicate and appear to people, suggesting that he still has some kind of individuality.
Perhaps the scenario is similar to some new age concepts I have read where it is said that it is possible to merge with the 'all' AND still have some kind independant reality AT THE SAME TIME. An impossiblity according to Aristotlean (and neo-platonic) thought but possible when we think of 'fuzzy logic' where it is possible to be and not be something at the same time.

3) General Buddhist religion in eastern countries / lay buddhism

I was thinking about all the eastern countries like Japan, China, Korea, etc etc, which refer to themselves as 'Buddhist countries'.
Now, the majority of these citizens refer to themselves as Buddhists.
I have many chinese friends who are Buddhist however they have never meditated in their life, however, they celebrate all the usual festivals and try to adhere to the ethical code of Buddha, they also sometimes go to temples and pray to various buddhist deities if they want help with something.

The vast majority of the population of Hong Kong, China etc are not Buddhists in the sense of 'buddhist monks', but must be classed as Buddists in the sense that they accept the reality of Buddha's teaching and at least try to live according to an ethical code he advised.
I just wonder what they get out of it. Obviously the majority of the population, which I might call 'lay buddhists' hardly beleive that they are likely to 'escape the wheel of life' when they die, so what are they after?
One of my chinese friends said that most 'normal' chinese and so on, hope that they will improve their lot and be reborn in one of the heavens, where they can chill out for a while, perhaps even becoming a god, until they eventially fall back to human level again, or somewhere else.
Can anyone give more detail on this? Obviously it is only a small portion of buddhists who are actually monks. In my experience most Buddhist Chinese that I know, do not meditate or have a monk like intent to escape from the circle of life. They just adhere to the Buddha's code as far as they can, go to festivals and hope for one of the heavens when they die.

One Buddhist site I read says there is no strict definition of a 'buddhist'. Rather, anyone who accepts the reality of the Buddha and what he teaches and attempts to live by his ethics, or at least accept the reality of them, can be classed a Buddhist.
Its just that in the west, we have a stereotype vision of a Buddhist that equals *monk*, but this is in fact only the seriously dedicated variety who are on a mission. However, the 'Buddhist monk' variety of Buddhism seems to be the type that is promoted in the west. I havnt found very many 'causual Buddhists' here like you get in any Asian country.

Any further info clarification much appreciated!

Regards,
Douglas

[fuji257]

Buddha taught that when it comes to the question of a soul or no-soul that the question does not fit the case.  That is not a cop out.  Remember, some things must be experienced and cannot be labeled.  None the less, let me try to establish a Buddhist cosmology as I understand it.  

Imagine an intellect/force that pervades all existence.  Its tendrils reach out and touch every sentient beings mind from birth to death.  It is called by many names; The All, God etc.  From a Buddhist perspective, it is neither - it is simply Reality.  Nirvana. The Big Mind.

When one meditates it is for what purpose?  Not to calm the mind, but to tame it, the little mind.  To TAME; the little mind obeys the Big Mind.  We are beings composed of body and mind (big and little).  The body can affect the little mind, but not the big mind.  The big mind is all of our true natures.  When you meditate properly over a long period of time you will have slowly trained yourself to exist as being with no "little mind" (that is the one you hear "thinking" on a regular basis, and won't shut up when you meditate   ).  You train to exist as a mind/body but using the "big mind" in place of the little one.

When someone dies, the little mind can survive.  It is now disembodied, because the gray matter that once contained it no longer can (ghosts, anybody?).  Though, usually the energies that was the little mind just disperse - unless it has exceptional will to live.  But the Big Mind that person once 'had' still exists, in whole as always.

If someone has been "enlightened" or has experienced "nirvana", that is just another way of saying they are trained in the Big Mind, you see.  When they die, it will be nothing new to them.  They are already used to being the big mind, which is all that is left after death.  The Big Mind is uncreated and eternal.  The little mind is created, and then conditioned to believe in a self.  The little mind is the part of you that suffers.  You can shed it at any time (or a least, severely limit its use - all's it does is label things any ways, when you get right down to it).  That is why it is said the enlightened will not taste death.  Some schools use different types of mediations, other use chanting, riddles/koan, provocative thought, dharma transmissions etc.  They are all paths/practices to the same end.  

Now, somewhere in my cosmology you may find something I said and label it a 'soul' - but that would be incorrect.  In this cosmology whatever you called a 'soul' would not be one by say, a christians definition.  You see, the question does not fit the case.

Things about Buddhism only get complicated when people (groups) throw in cultural baggage.  Or people will learn of Buddhist concepts and try to label them with similarities of this religion or that religion.  Scholarly interest in Buddhism can be interesting with many strands and schools of thought.  These establishments are good and needed because they promote Buddhism and keep it alive.  However, one should read what Sidhartha actually said and interpret events for themselves.  Buddhism is not as complicated as armchair Buddhist make it out to be.

Two FINE books on the subject which anyone seriously looking into Buddhism should read:

Buddhism: Plain and Simple (Steven Hagen)

or

Hardcore Zen (Brad Warner)

I believe these two books alone will shape western Buddhism for decades to come.

Peace.

[markulous]

Buddhism: Plain and Simple (Steven Hagen)

VERY good book!  I second that.

[Shinobi]

...

[Hooza Wooza]

Buddhist are not just Monks.  The Mahayana (a.k.a. Greater Vehicle) tradition arose in the 1st century primarily due to Monks living excluded lives and not sharing certain teachings (meditation) with "lay people".  Buddha actively discouraged avoiding society, and encouraged that his teachings be taught to everybody.  Everybody.

A lay person that is a Buddhist is trying to achieve the same thing Buddha achieved.  To discover ones true nature.  Buddha taught the noble eightfold path and meditation.  These two things will lead one to discover the same things Buddha discovered, although since many things cannot be put into words, some describe conclusions differently.  Buddha never made any sort of advice that one should lead an isolated life.

To be a Buddhist you should attempt the noble eight-fold path, meditate often (the technique he taught is referred to as zazen today), and accept no outside savior.  "Be a light unto yourself."

If you do those three things you are more of a Buddhist than some monk in Asia. Over the years Buddha's core teachings have been lost in the eastern world, mostly to due to Hinduism in many peoples opinion.

[You]

I thought the Brahman (Brahma?) was a Hindu god, with many faces who spoke all languages and stuff.

[Gandalf]

He is... 'Brahman' means 'the all', everything that is.. in Hindu teaching everything arises out of this first cause and is part of it, including us and all the gods.

Brahman is sometimes personified as a figure as you describe. the chief god from where all other gods and mortals spring..

However, it is not as simple as saying that Brahman is the 'all' with no sentient awareness in its own right... that is certainly one interpretation.. however, there are other interpretations that show Brahman being somehow aware in its own right... hense its use of images to relate to it.

One thing that comes as a bit of a suprise to many outsiders (like me) is that it is a bit of a sweeping statement and umbrella term to talk about 'hindu religion' as that term actually encompasses a whole variety of differing philosophies interpretations.

My own view of 'standard' hindu religion is that Brahman is the 'all' out of which we all emerge. but that Brahman is also sentient himself in some way (a kind of panENtheistic notion rather than just pantheistic).... he/it is represented via his image.. but that he created other aspects of himself that are all the various other gods of the pantheon (as well as us)... however, while they are aspects of him just as we are, they also have thier own independance, just as we do.
So all the gods and goddesses of the hindu pantheon, while being aspects of Brahman are also sentient in their own right and can help you out, they take responsiblity for various facets of the world.

Douglas

PS it has been a while since i first posted that question about buddhism, but over time i have gravitated more towards looking at hindu philosophy out of interests sake.

[Shinobi]

...

[kalratri]

THere is no "first cause" in most "Dharma"  philosophies ...everything just keeps going on and on and on  , it's a self contradictory cycle of opposites, like the Tao, in Buddhism known as Shunya, in Hinduism as Yoga.

Brahma, Buddhist no-self, "beyond self and no-self" are simply terms to try to describe it to those who haven't experienced it.  Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are simply representations of what we perceive as time, but they are all Brahma.

However the Dharma systems make it clear that only the experience through  meditation counts...philosophizing alone is not enough.

What is commonly referred to as Hinduism and Buddhism today, both referred to themselves simply as the Dharma or Arya Dharma (the Noble Way), later in order to differentiate between the two, Buddhists were referred to as Bodha Dharma("Awakened Way") vs. Hinduism's Sanatana Dharma (the "Eternal Way")...

Bodha Dharma and Sanatana Dharma and Taoism are united in their ends--- to attain enlightenment through meditative techniques and later united in their means --- i.e. certain dieties and Tantric rites, except of course Bodha Dharma starts with the initiation guidelines set by the historical Siddhartha Gautham and Taoism starts with the historical Lao Tzu I believe and the Sanatana Dharma starts with Vedic initiation.

[Bex]

I do not think I can add anything, sadly.  Also, I feel I still do not know enough about my own religion -- yes, I am Buddhist -- to say anything more.  Fuji made some good points, and he's right: read some hardcopy books on Buddhism.  The internet is full of people who don't NEED to be published to make a statement.  Therefore, most of it is lies.

[fuji257]

Bex,

Thanks for the kind comments.  I've noticed your replies on this and other posts.  We're usually on the same wavelength.

How is the Buddhist "scene" where you live?  Here in Indiana is pretty slim.  There are two kinds of Sanghas or Zen Centers,  1. "Give us lots of money and here us speak - we are a great authority!" or 2.  "Lets all just get together a discuss philosophy and god and stuff, then we'll "meditate" if everybody wants to."

If you have a Zazen setting or Sangha better than that, you are very lucky.

[You]

The coolest Buddhists are the martial artists Watch Rurouni Kenshin, there's this wicked Buddhist monk who turns dark and gets huge muscles and is just totally wicked.

Anji.

[Potential]

Shaolin kicks @ss!