What do religions or you say about homosexuality?

[Mystic Cloud]

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

With all due respect to individuals and political correctness I find it intuitivly wrong . I dont know why. In my young years I did experiment but even then felt a terrible strong foreboding sense of going the wrong direction. All taid there may be situations where it would be accaptable. Maybe a deserted Island with some guys marooned but in general I would say that at least Male homosexuality is based very strongly in lust . Female is different. I believe in the bible and it is clear that God does not like it according to Romans . However according to other qoutes it seems permissable. All that to say .I dont know. Looking at Homosexual men (some of who I do know) they seem generally to be very agressive hostile provokative and unhappy.
Regards Mustardseed

I think you are 100% wrong when you say that homosexuality is based very strongly in lust. That is just an absurd opinion. Atleast the Male homosexuals I know have _NOTHING_ to do with lust. But on the other side there is a tendence that many homosexuals are very 'shallow' and only cares about looks etc. [}:)]

But still I don't think there is anything wrong falling in love with someone of the same gender. I think it is a matter of choice in life/before life if you want it or not. Besides there will STILL be the feminine and masculine polarity in that relationship (one will be masculine and the other feminine)

[Mystic Cloud]

quote:Originally posted by onefromsomewhereelse

You can either believe the Bible or just pick and choose.  You would not be convinced if the Lord himself payed you a personal visit and told you that homosexuality is deviant, wrong behaviour.

We all have sins; we are all sinners.  It is how you deal with sin which indicates if you have he spirit of God in you.  Everyone does not have the spirit in him.  If you are truly seeking the Lord's will, and feel convicted of sin, that's a good indication you have the spirit of God.

Perhaps some day you will be more spiritual regarding this matter, and seek wisdom from the Lord.  You will be in my prayers.

Sorry to ruin your day but.

1) I don't believe in the bible. It has been changed and used as
means of massmanipulation for AGES for personal wealth & power. And no
I am NOT going to hell for this. Merely I'm getting a reward for showing people the truth behind the curtains.

2) While I believe in god and know what life is about I also know that
he accepts EVERYONE, yes including homosexuals. I do however NOT understand how you think that not everyone has a spirit in him. That is like to say that not everyone is made out of atoms, but some are made of green cheese.

3) If you punish and convict yourself because of some 'sins' that you have done you have a very naive and perverted view of yourself. On top of this anyone can manipulate and bend you according to their own will, which is in my opinion not a very good thing. Where is your self-grace and mercy? After all we are here to learn and show 100% unconditional love towards others and not condemn everyone and yourself.

4) Sins are more like 'mistakes'. These are necessary to LEARN how to LIVE. Without these you would not learn very important lessons in life.

5) The picking and choosing about Bible or not. GNNN. Are you blind?
LOOK AT HOW MANY OTHER SPIRITUAL TEXTS THERE ARE AVAILABLE IN THE WORLD!!!?? And no, the 'others' do NOT come from Lucifer as many fanatic (evil?) Christians believe. (Besides Lucifer is a misinterpretion of King James while translating it from hebrew and is originally a name of the King of Babylon) They all come from ONE source, ONE ALL-mighty, ONE God.

6) The only good I found in this post was that you pray for the well-being of others, and that is a good deed. But still if you pray for someone who ISN'T ill but still insist that he is and pray against his whole life-view just because you think different, it kind of turns the deed to something else.

7) I dislike ALL 'fanatics'

[Gwathren]

I'll support those who are against it, and reapeat myself:

God created man and then woman. If God would have wanted man to love man, then why in the name of nine hells did God create woman anyway?

Let's keep it simple. Man can love man as a friend, but not as a woman. There are women for that. (And that doesn't mean that women were created only because man would have someone to love).

[G3MM4]

IMO, God made us the way we are. You cannot "become" gay. You're born either straight, homosexual or bisexual. It's society that places rescrictions on our sexuality, it's society that makes it seem wrong. If it was God's will that we should all be straight, then it would be so. We have free will, but we cannot help the way we are at heart. I'm talking from personal experience.

As for gay people not being able to get married, why shouldn't they? Why is it OK for hetrosexual people to get married, but it's not OK for gay people to get married? While I'm on this point, why is it OK for single or married heterosexuals to adopt children, but it's not OK for gay people to adopt children? It's not unnatural at all. It's just as natural for gay people as it is for hetrosexual people. It's only the narrow-minded individuals who says otherwise.

Please don't take offence at what I've just said, as I'm only voicing my opinion, just like everyone else is.

[Moonburn33]

gwathren, your logic is flawed.

you're making the "god created adam and eve, not adam and steve" argument based on your own conceptions of sexuality.  now the act of creating two genders does not in of itself say that these two "people's" progeny could not love each other in a romantic way. you are saying that if god created A and B then only A+B=Right when there's no given saying that that is true- it is left open.  there is nothing saying that A+A=wrong only that there are two variables to work with here.

the hebrew words adam and eve are plural in this case, so god created men and women in the beginning- according to the old testament.  and the original hebrew translation for god creating the world was actually gods- just found that one out today.

[cristina8675309]

Religion and Spirituality are two very separate things...and from all i've been able to swallow thus far - and it's not a whole lot from all this bickering; nothing throughout time seems to have changed.  so many want to hide in religion on sunday and do whatever they want the rest of the week, or think that theirs is better or more right, or that they know more or WHATEVER.  It comes down to do you do what you believe...and allowing others the same right to do what they believe. (the exceptions i make to that are i don't believe one should be allowed to harm children, animals, and the otherwise defenseless).  the thing that burns my blood about ppl who are so doggonned immersed in the bible and the bible only is the topic of TOLERANCE.  Those of us who are tolerated for our beliefs should allow the same tolerance of others.  Christ, IN THE BIBLE, allegedly said, if a man strike you, turn to him the other cheek.  How 'bout stepping down from the "I want to strike out at you because you don't do what I believe is right and I'm gonna beat you over the head with it" (from whatever perspective it's coming from) and focus on our own dinner tables, instead of others' dinner tables.  What's going on in your own family--and is it according to your beliefs...and do you live them everyday...not just for an hour on sunday to justify your fishing trip afterwards?  

There's a scene in a tv show that very many who are "uptight" shall we say wouldn't agree with, but I do.  God made everything, God loves all his creations.  Therefore, if it turns out in the end that any version of sexuality is acceptable, who cares.... He loves the creation, if not the act, too.

Another biblical idea is love the sinner, not the sin.  If you view it as a sin...can you not still show love for your fellowman and accept him/her at whatever "place" they are?

argh.  i hate the religion war.  That is why I am of no particular religion, but put my trust, faith and hope in spirituality.  enough...this has made me feel ucky because of all the petty bickering.

peace to all and everyone...regardless of their choice.

[exothen]

cristin,

quote:Religion and Spirituality are two very separate things...

It seems to be that way in the West, but in the Christian East, where Christianity was born and has survived for almost 2000 years, religion and spirituality are one and the same.

quote:God made everything, God loves all his creations. Therefore, if it turns out in the end that any version of sexuality is acceptable, who cares.... He loves the creation, if not the act, too.

I agree that everything that God made is good and he loves his creation, but it is in error to say that God creates homosexuals, as some have asserted. Being born into a fallen Creation is was creates the homosexual, just as it does the adulterer, fornicator, glutton, etc.

Also, God clearly condemns the homosexual act, so waiting for "the end" to see if it was okay, is too late. To reword your question: If it turns out in the end that any version of sexuality is not acceptable, then what?

In the same way that man goes against the natural order of the world and tries to subdue it for his purposes, ravaging it in the process, so one who goes against the natural order of sexuality and tries to subdue it for his own purposes, ravages his soul. Sexuality and spirituality are very closely linked, which is why there were many fertility cults in past history and why the Bible states "the two will become one flesh" - the mystery of the spiritual union of sexual intimacy.

quote:Another biblical idea is love the sinner, not the sin. If you view it as a sin...can you not still show love for your fellowman and accept him/her at whatever "place" they are?

And here is where the Christian Church struggles, as do I, although I am changing. What you say above is true, but because the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, the Church doesn't know how to make room for and accept homosexuals as persons (although they accept those with other sins). I think that it is because homosexuality is of such an explicit, deviant nature, so very contrary to the purpose of sexual expression, that for me anyway, makes it hard to deal with those involved in it.

But Christ said, he didn't come for the righteous but the unrighteous. The Church is changing, but it will take time. This doesn't mean that the Church can tolerate "believing" homosexuals, but it should allow unbelieving homosexuals into the Church more often than it does.

[FreeFaller]

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

With all due respect to individuals and political correctness I find it intuitivly wrong . I dont know why. In my young years I did experiment but even then felt a terrible strong foreboding sense of going the wrong direction. All taid there may be situations where it would be accaptable. Maybe a deserted Island with some guys marooned but in general I would say that at least Male homosexuality is based very strongly in lust . Female is different. I believe in the bible and it is clear that God does not like it according to Romans . However according to other qoutes it seems permissable. All that to say .I dont know. Looking at Homosexual men (some of who I do know) they seem generally to be very agressive hostile provokative and unhappy.
Regards Mustardseed

the part where mustardseed says "I believe in the bible and it is clear that God does not like it according to Romans" HAVE YOU TRIED READING THE BIBLE? the bible says how god LOVES everything and everyone even his enemy satin. SO ask your self if he loves satin how does he hate homosexuals? HE put us on this earth for a reason. he made a plan for all of us. we dont choose what we do he does, and it all happens for a rreason. HAVE you ever thought homosexual people are the best role models for the earth? look at this they are not ashamed what others think of them.

a big problem is prejudice people. "I dont like him because he is gay" maybe homosexual people serve a purpose to one day eventualy stop prejudice against them. You know in another post i say how my friend and i discussd what we think the true meaning to christianity is, we want to create our own religion with others that have the same view as us so we can decide what we think the lost and true meaning of christ is... not exactly christ, but what god wants... hard to explain such as saying that god doesnt hate homosexual people, but that he loves everyone and he put them on this planet for a reason.

i say put on this planet because i dont believe the fact that homosexual people just woke up one morning and decidd that they were going to be gay, it just happens.

(I'm not gay)just as a pointer no PMs asking if you want to get together with me.... that already happened once not again

[kakkarot]

um, freefaller, i think you're misinterpretting the line between "not liking" and "hating". Homosexuality, according to the bible, is not Godly. And if you don't agree with that, then you obviously need to read your bible because this one point has been quoted from the bible many times in this thread.

and that's not to say that God can't both love the person and hate the acts they are involved in. because He can, as can you and i.

~kakkarot

[Yerzak06]

just becuase God loves someone doesn't mean He loves their bad actions. Its that simple. I can love my pets, but can still hate when they get mud all over the place. I want them to change that habit but it doesnt mean i kid them out of the house for it. I think God feels the same way. Nothing can get you rejected from heaven except for one this, not believing in jesus.

I personally disagree with it becuase if man were meant to be with a man then i would be able to give birth ( im never going to go through that painful though again.) I also think that you dont have to be born with it either. It developes in early child hood. Look at it this way, all boys dont like being around those "annoying" girls who play with gasp.....DOLLS. If we stayed that way we would start to talk to them in the teen years.

Please tell what your thoughts are on my thoughts.

[exothen]

FreeFaller,

quote:HE put us on this earth for a reason. he made a plan for all of us. we dont choose what we do he does, and it all happens for a rreason.

Yes, God makes us all for a reason, but God does not make people gay; he makes people who then are born into a fallen, sinful world. It is only in that sense that one can be considered born gay.

It is the same as with disease. God doesn't create people with diseases just so that they die. We are all born into this fallen world where things are not the way God initially created them.

quote:HAVE you ever thought homosexual people are the best role models for the earth? look at this they are not ashamed what others think of them.

Is that the criteria one uses to determine a good role model? Was Jeffery Dahmer ashamed at what people thought of him? Probably not.

quote:(I'm not gay)just as a pointer no PMs asking if you want to get together with me.... that already happened once not again

LOL! Nothing like that has ever happened to me.

Yerzak06,

I have argued previously that it is obvious from the natural teleology of the the body that men are made to be with women. Homosexuality is therefore unnatural, going against the divine order of nature and creation.

As for being born with it, see what I wrote to FreeFaller above. One thing is for certain, as of yet, there is no "gay gene." I think the best way to think of it is that some are born with gay tendencies, but I think that most do make the choice.

[exothen]

runlola,

quote:The reason people think it is wrong is because religion told them it was wrong in order to control the masses. Are people so afraid to think for themselves?

It has nothing to do with controlling the masses and everything to do with what the Bible says (and as I pointed out, nature shows otherwise as well - the Bible is just pointing out the obvious). I am thinking for myself, thank you very much, as is everyone else that I know.

quote:The only time homosexuality has a choice is if the person is bi-sexual, then you have a choice. Attraction is something within you that does not choose.

How does that work? If someone is bi, then they are attracted to both sexes, which according to you isn't by choice.

quote:There is nothing harmful, evil or wrong with that, just different.

There is nothing wrong with wanting love and to be loved, that is basic human nature, but there is something wrong with preferring to love the same sex.

quote:Since they can't have babies is it wrong for old folks to get it on?

This is a bad argument that usually comes in the form of "What if a couple doesn't want to have kids?" or "What if in a couple one of them is sterile and they can't have kids?" Any way that it is stated, it is pointing out exceptions, not the norm. A man and a woman are meant to have sex, not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman. This argument ignores the argument from teleology of the human body.

quote:According to the bible fornication is wrong, so you are screwed either way unless you are married

That is true.

quote:& only having sex to make babies.

That is not true, thankfully.

quote:I seriously doubt gays will stop the human race, so relax.

It has nothing to do with this at all.

[Yerzak06]

quote:Originally posted by runlola

  I seriously doubt gays will stop the human race, so relax.

something interesting to note is in the downfall of nearly every great empire, especialy the roman empire, just before it happened the number of gays rose dramatically. History repeats it self over and over again,

[need]

That comment about gays and the roman empire and others,  a famous author notes the same obeservation and that their purpose was unknown to gays in that era,was to be in direct contradiction to tradition and to challenge authority. Can anyone blame gays for  the downfall of empires, one surely cannot think so, very many situations would be necessary to acheive that and gays are a very small portion of that dilemnma. But we get the feeling that somehow the idea is that somehow gays show corruption in eras and that somehow there is a seemingly higher rise (so history tells us, but how can we know because we cannot directly check)in homosexuality before the downfall of an empire, somehow many might read that homosexuality between the lines is a sign of corruption which was one of the signs which showed the beggining of the end of that empire.

But the truth probably is that the empire was dying anyway for many quite right reasons and that rising numbers of homosexuality was actually a challenge (like a needle in a haystack) to the old ways contributing to the destuction of a civilization or empire that possibly decided somewhere had to be ended.In considering these issues it might be better to read between the lines somehow just saying certain words gives rise to controversy, confusion ,ignorance and general silliness. So we bang our heads against the same old walls.How do any of us know that what we say is the truth. Is this the truth.If it is the truth can be enforced, if it's enforced will it solve any problem or add to them.

[Yerzak06]

When i look at the big picture, i dont hate gays. Its their lives and they can do what they want and we dont own them so its not really our place to tell them what to do. Now if i get hit on by one that changes the whole picture, becuase they involving my life in their ways. So unless you are getting hit on by gay people and dont like it you really shouldnt degrade them. They could degrade me for liking violent sports such as boxing and say that my brutal mentality is contributing to street violence and such. So in theory we are all right and all wrong. It just depends on how you look at it. I think its only right to point fingers at finger pointers...now isnt that a paradox.

[need]

Isn't it more of a conundrum Yerza. If you felt offended by my post please don't, it simply wasn't intended that way, but isn't it interesting when one says something and another says something else the disagreement leads to conflict and conflict leads to something else , who knows.It's like a mirror maze of distorted conflicting oppossing reflections. I guess I was expressing my unfounded feelings on all that had been said

Same sex relationships possibly work like hetoresexual relationshiops, many different factors attracting the participating parties into a relationship, it's that simple. Who knows who falls in love with what. Some people are superficial and others deep, opposites attract and like attracts, sexual drive is so intrinsic to human existance it would be silly to deny that lust being one aspect of love, is not in some way the motivating factor behind what we think of as love nowadays, in homosexual and heterosexual relationships.

What life requires of us is to judge with no experience, to decide when we are blind,some part of us must lie to believe in a truth. In many relationships there must be the feeling that something is missing some wholeness not inherent in one individual thus we seeks out relationships. Sometimes we seek what is expected of us, other times we go against the grain maybe not even wanting to or knowing why we are.Think of how brave homosexuals have to be to live in todays climate by so called civilization,when human nature cannot understand human nature, why on earth should religion have the lowdown on what homosexuality is. Most of todays religions have very antagonistic ideas on gay people and very very bizarre ideas on exposing the truth of anything or cloaks smoe truth in disguise.   If it were that truthful why do we keep questioning.Why so many different religions.

Religion is an ultimatum, accept this or leave, is what religion says to me,so I don't feel religion has the blatant authority it proclaims unless it could explain itself very clearly . Read most religions and being bamboozled is a great possibility.Religion has to be taken [] on faith.And it is a faith.

Personally I feel gays are normal, hetero's are normal because what the hell is normal these days.

[exothen]

runlola,

quote:Then why do you read the bible if it so obvious?

To continually be reminded of what is right. Obviously there are many people who don't even realize the obvious.

quote:The bible says a lot of out-dated stuff. Do you believe everything it says?

The Bible is a book based on history. Somethings will be out-dated, but there are principles which will never be out-dated. Yes, I believe everything it says.

quote:Bi: the choice is you can go either way. Homosexuality: you can go only one way.

Yes, a bi can choose which particular sex they want to be with, but, if they engage in homosexual acts based on their choice of partner, then how can homosexuality not be a choice? They are still engaging in homosexual behavior, which, according to you is not a choice.

quote:Homosexuality doesn't create life. It creates love, so it is meant to be. Love is never wrong.

Homosexuality cannot create love; it is based on loving the same sex. The fact that homosexuality cannot create life shows that it goes against nature.

Is it wrong for a dad to love his little girl so much that he has sex with her? Is it wrong for someone to love their dog so much that they have sex with it? How about polygamy?

Pure love is never wrong, but love that has been perverted is very wrong and destructive.

quote:Back in Sunday school, a kid once asked about homosexuality & the nun said, "If all humans became homosexual, there would be no more babies & the world would end".

And what is wrong with that statement? It is true. But as for the whole world becoming homosexual, of course that would never happen.

[shedt]

its interesting if you do some research, you will find out that with most animal in the wild, up to about 10-11 % of them are naturally homosexual

[Mystic Cloud]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

runlola,

quote:Then why do you read the bible if it so obvious?

To continually be reminded of what is right. Obviously there are many people who don't even realize the obvious.

quote:The bible says a lot of out-dated stuff. Do you believe everything it says?

The Bible is a book based on history. Somethings will be out-dated, but there are principles which will never be out-dated. Yes, I believe everything it says.

quote:Bi: the choice is you can go either way. Homosexuality: you can go only one way.

Yes, a bi can choose which particular sex they want to be with, but, if they engage in homosexual acts based on their choice of partner, then how can homosexuality not be a choice? They are still engaging in homosexual behavior, which, according to you is not a choice.

quote:Homosexuality doesn't create life. It creates love, so it is meant to be. Love is never wrong.

Homosexuality cannot create love; it is based on loving the same sex. The fact that homosexuality cannot create life shows that it goes against nature.

Is it wrong for a dad to love his little girl so much that he has sex with her? Is it wrong for someone to love their dog so much that they have sex with it? How about polygamy?

Pure love is never wrong, but love that has been perverted is very wrong and destructive.

quote:Back in Sunday school, a kid once asked about homosexuality & the nun said, "If all humans became homosexual, there would be no more babies & the world would end".

And what is wrong with that statement? It is true. But as for the whole world becoming homosexual, of course that would never happen.

They say in the old testament that it is bad to be gay, right?
They also say in the old testament that it is right to own slaves if they are from another country.
They say alot of other things too [xx(]

Besides you should try to understand a few things about the Spiritual side of humans and the Genderlessness of the soul. We have BOTH male and female aspects in our selves that are _NOT_ limited to our body. So basically the gender does not matter, besides most gender issues relate to the thing that most people are RAISED as a boy or a girl which is pretty bonked up in the first place.

Imo the physical robot which you reside in has not so much to do with your mental gender. There are alot of males who are more feminine that masculine and vice versa which is perfectly normal. So tell me WHY is it wrong to be homosexual?

I do not want any answer based from the bible, I just want to know why, and don't give me that crap that it is against nature, because it really is not, just check the behavior of some species and you will notice this.

[kakkarot]

quote:The bible says a man should hit his wife. Do you think that is right too?

really? please provide the passage.

~kakkarot

[Yerzak06]

yes, that puzzled me too. I remember a passage saying a man shouldnt hit and should respect his wife.

[Moonburn33]

happy is he who dasheth his little one's heads against the stones- psalms
(loosely quoted)

[Moonburn33]

i think that's more a case of tongue in cheek wisdom, but worth putting in the mix anyway

[James S]

I read through some more of Leviticus 20 after chapter 13, and I'm sorry to say, but it appears that America's hillbillies, Australia's country inbreads, and most of the brittish royal family are all condemned!
[]

One thing that interests me is when people staunchly use the bible to pass judgement on others, which one are the using? I mean, how many different versions are there, and how many different ways has the bible been translated to suite those that did the translating?
"Well ours is based on the original texts!"
Oh, yeah? Well show me the "original" texts you used then!
Is it the original texts that went into the Good News Bible, the NIV, the King James, the Watchtower bible (now that's an interesting one - the translations seem to change every time someone new comes into the head of the JW organisation), or any other of the 50 different translations?

How can anyone judge someone else based on a copy of The True Word Of God when there are so many different versions of The True Word Of God out there.

And I really like the version Moonburn is using! Gets right to the point.
"happy is he who dasheth his little one's heads against the stones"

I wonder if that's from the "Cop This Ya Pack Of Fairies" version?
You know, the one with the solid metal cover, so that when you want to bible bash someone, you can really bash them!
[]

James.

[Brynbstn]

I would like to hear from people who are experienced with OBE and other psychic skills. Is there an astral realm where many homosexuals end up? What is the karmic effect of life as a homosexual? Maybe these kind of questions should be posted somewhere else. Since all the responses so far are about people's opinions and interpretation of the Bible, it would be nice to hear some "facts" garnered from OBE or similar.

I think I might be the only homosexual male who has responded to this post. I'll tell you how it is for me. I fell in love with a boy my age when I was 19. There is no question that I was crazy in love with this person. I got all nervous when I was around him. I thought about him all the time, I loved everything about him. We were friends, but the love was unrequited. I had a few relationships with women - they lasted 3-6 months, and the woman always pursued me. It was sexual, but I was not in love. I just thought I should try it, ie try to be straight.

I realized I was attracted to men, not women, but did not know what to do about it. I was very spiritual back then, and instinctively wanted to stay on my path. Eventually I saw a psychic, and she told me that I had chosen to come into this life to experience love from a new angle - as a male that loves males. This implies the point of life is to learn lessons about love, perhaps how it transcends all of our 3rd-dimensional experience - space, time, gender, ethnicity, age, etc...

Now I am fully "out" gay male. I had a bf who I lived with for 7 years. I did not love him the way I loved the first boy, but I did love him and was deeply committed to him and our relationship. Sex was a small part of our relationship.

Now I have been single for 3 years and have become esconced in the gay sexual culture. Its hard to avoid it in a urban area, if you are good looking and have a nice body.  I believe the Gay scene right now is truly a "culture of desire", and this makes it very hard to live a spiritual life. Many would argue that this is a side-effect of our oppression, and if we were more openly accepted and integrated into society, we would not be forming our own culture, and it would not have such a strong sexual theme.  I don't know. I'm sure it will not always be this way - societies (obviously) change over time.

Bryan