What do religions or you say about homosexuality?

[Mustardseed]

With all due respect to individuals and political correctness I find it intuitivly wrong . I dont know why. In my young years I did experiment but even then felt a terrible strong foreboding sense of going the wrong direction. All taid there may be situations where it would be accaptable. Maybe a deserted Island with some guys marooned but in general I would say that at least Male homosexuality is based very strongly in lust . Female is different. I believe in the bible and it is clear that God does not like it according to Romans . However according to other qoutes it seems permissable. All that to say .I dont know. Looking at Homosexual men (some of who I do know) they seem generally to be very agressive hostile provokative and unhappy.
Regards Mustardseed

[bellylard]

I don't think theres anything wrong with it.  I just don't think they should be aloud to adobt children.  The kid would be braught up in a strange and un-natural envirnment.

[Tenacious]

I have to say that this is one of the hardest topics to talk about.  So many people are brought up as "homobashers" as I will call them. (not to be taken offensivly)  I once asked my preacher that and he went completly nuts!  He told me god hates people like that and they should all be killed.  That didn't seem right to me so i stopped going to that church...  But anyways back to the topic-  I think that homosexuality is fine.  I see less violence with them than I do with some other groups.  I guess it all boils down to the fact that no one can say "thats wrong" and be correct.  If god loves his children, as the bible states, then why not his children that are different?

-Tenacious[]

[curiousgirl]

quote:In my young years I did experiment but even then felt a terrible strong foreboding sense of going the wrong direction.

you felt that because you were discovering it was the wrong direction for you.

quote:Male homosexuality is based very strongly in lust .

heh heh, you could say the same thing about male heterosexuality.  but really, they fall in love with each other as much as hetero males fall in love with women.  homosexuality is about more than just sex (though the media loves to dwell on only the sex aspects of homosexuality, giving everyone the idea that that's all it's about), it is about falling in love.  these people just fall in love with the same gender.

quote:Looking at Homosexual men (some of who I do know) they seem generally to be very agressive hostile provokative and unhappy.

perhaps this is because they live in a world where they are constantly bashed and persecuted???  i mean, for the longest time they've had to hide themselves, for fear of being hated or disowned by their own families, and for fear of being beaten up or worse.  it is only recently that they are feeling safer about "coming out" (though i'm sure it depends on where you live, too).  the gay men that i've met were sweethearts!  talkative and cheerful!  this one guy i worked with was just a total sunbeam. [8D]  always laughing, and always helping people.  he devoted so much of his time toward helping people and keeping busy with creative activities.  his attitude and his kindness puts many "good christians" to shame.  of course, christians i've talked to said that good deeds will not save him, he will still burn in hell because homosexuality is a sin.  but he did things out of the pure desire to do so, not to try to "save his soul"... that wasn't even on his mind.  it makes me so angry when people say that gays will burn in hell... don't they realize love is love?  why should god condemn love in any form?  i thought that's what "He" is all about!

[Mustardseed]

Yep it could be all that, I dont really know . All I know is that according to my faith and what I read in the Bible, I cannot see it having much of a bearing on their relationship to God.He seemed to hate it in the OT and maybe still does but in the era of Christianity that has changed. It can be argued that it is no worse than any other sin and so forth. Seems that a Church goer who lusts after the pastors wife is in the same category or a Christian who lusts after his neighbours car for that matter. What I offered was personal opinion to this serious question.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

Yep it could be all that, I dont really know . All I know is that according to my faith and what I read in the Bible, I cannot see it having much of a bearing on their relationship to God.He seemed to hate it in the OT and maybe still does but in the era of Christianity that has changed. It can be argued that it is no worse than any other sin and so forth. Seems that a Church goer who lusts after the pastors wife is in the same category or a Christian who lusts after his neighbours car for that matter. What I offered was personal opinion to this serious question.

It could be that the homosexual view in the OT was more a view of society than of God. In the OT the Jews were a small group surrounded by much more populated groups who they did not get along with very well. So they needed numbers in order to have a better chance at surviving. Homosexual couples could not add to the population and so were frowned upon, possibly making its way into a religious view.

I really do not see where homosexual acts are condemmed other than by I believe it is Paul. I find this man to be too judgemental and not very much in line with what Jesus taught on many things. Jesus never said one way or other specifically. I think that it does not really matter who you choose to partner with as long as it is based on love.

Homosexuality is not about just sex any more than heterosexuality is.

[Gandalf]

All I know is that according to my faith and what I read in the Bible, I cannot see it having much of a bearing on their relationship to God.He seemed to hate it in the OT and maybe still does but in the era of Christianity that has changed.
-----------------------------------------------------
Interesting that in this descroption of god, he 'hates' things. Doesnt sound like much of a god that I'd like to follow. I love how christians try to get out of the trully awful acts of 'god' in the OT complete with ethic cleansing etc by stating that this was the 'old law' and once jesus came god changed to the 'new law'. I'm afraid it doesnt wash with me, he still isnt any kind of god that I'd follow, even if he did have a personality change!
In reality of course, this excuse was thought up to reconcile two different faith systems.

Douglas

[Beth]

It would interesting to know if any other religions of the world (besides Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have certain tenets regarding same sex relationships and what those tenets are?  Does anyone know?[?]

Peace, Beth

[Mustardseed]

First I would agree with the comment about Paul . He does have a puritanical streak seems to be a women hater and maybe got burned in love . Who knows. However the qoutes that he uses is based not on his own view but he is merely expounding on the story of sodom and gomorra in the OT. There are numerous qoutes in the OT about Gods abhorrence with the act of Homosexuality, as well as Beastiality, (sex with animals) which incidently is believed to be part of the sins of Sodom. One could argue the society needing children but I dont think so. The Bible teaches that these activities, brings on a attack by (female?)spirits or demons. These spirits afflict whole areas cities and countries. It was one of the commandments of God that the surrounding countries that Isreal counquered was to be inialated totally destroyed, men women children and all livestock, to hinder the spread of the negs that afflicted the Isrealites. The negs would jump from person to person or animal. Incidently Solomon succumed to this same sin and it led him to worship of other gods that his heatheren wives brought with them. He is believed to have had 400 concubines and to be the instigator of witchcraft first wizzard ever, as it is known today.I am only sharing the Bibles view and theories I have researched.

On an interesting note I have a visitor from Thailand. She told me that since Buddism has no judgement on these moral issues an enormously large section of the male population is becoming gay or bi. It is the big in thing as it is western and the repercussions (aids) are greatly feared in the future, with gvt. offices being alerted and so on.
Regards Mustardseed

[KDC]

I don't have a problem with Lesbians, but for some reason (and I mean no offence to anyone) I don't like the fact of two men together it just seems wrong.
[:I]At the moment, like a lot of young people do. I'm am having trouble in finding my sexuality.  I do like boys and there's one boy I really fancy, but sometimes I feel strongly towards the female gender too.  It's really confusing for me and I'm not sure how to tell my mates.  I'd never try and push any one into anything they didn't want to do, but I'm worried they'll hate me or think I'm a freak (or something like that).  Did any one else go through the same thing cause I'd really like some advice?
Luv KDC

[James S]

I think that often compassion is mistaken for passion, and love for lust. A hetero male can feel love or compassion towards another male without it being anything other than that, but social conditioning will often bring that male to think he's gay. The fact that you have strong feelings for another female might just be compassion, but you've possibly been conditioned to think it's something else.

If people would stop thinking in terms of what society and religions consider to be right or wrong in the case of homosexuality then I feel that our race as a whole might be allowed to advance that little bit, because we will have learned to stop putting conditions on love. Homosexual couples are capable of feeling love for each other just as much as heteros.

As to how the major religions handle homosexuality, I don't think their governing bodies are able to deal with any kind of sexuality, let alone homosexuality.

James.

[Beth]

KDC,

In my opinion--and it is just that--my opinion, it is perfectly natural to be sexually attracted to the same sex.  It is also perfectly natural to be bi-sexual and have the capacity to physically love both genders.

I have come to think of this in terms of "energy."  We are all made up of both masculine and feminine energy, and when we are attracted to a certain person, it is because their energy patterns are complimentary to ours. In other words, the boy that you are attracted to and whatever other female you are attracted to will both have certain energy factors that your energy responds to.  Oftentimes you will feel an "energy match" in your sexual center, but that does not necessarily mean that he/she should become your lover. As a relationship develops it will become clear what that relationship should be, be it friend or lover--male or female.  If it is "friend energy" the sexual stimulation will soon subside, if it is "lover" it will over time remain consistently "sexual."

IMO, we as a global society need to "move on" past all of these stereotypical boxes, and learn to love one another, as we ourselves want to be loved.


Peace,
Beth

[kakkarot]

to each their own... as long as they don't hit on me (except the girls. had a couple of lesbians mistake me for a girl once because of my long hair [8D]. they even gave me a ride home [|)])

~kakkarot

[shaman]

Sure James put the finger on the important point, there is Love and ther is Sex. Two men, or two women, can fall in love for each other... it would be called best friends. There is the story of David (Kind David) and Jonathan (the son of King Saul) in the bible, and there are many songs written by David about his love for Jonathan (Old testament - Jewish Bible). That does not make David homosexual... on the contrary he had hundreds of wives and comcubines...

So I understand what is Love from the "heart" and how it works, just I am not sure why people have to put "sex" in the middle of it when sometimes it is NOT especially needed there.

I don't bother what other poeple do, unless they hurt other people. I certainly do not tolerate people who hurt children.

Now the main question is: "Is deep compassion/love (from say the "heart") related to sexual attraction" or is it only "disoriented by it" ?

From my experience, deep compassion/love can stand by itself without any sex in the middle and is not especially a result of sexual attraction - for example the way someone loves her/his children; or if you are too young to have children it would be the way you can love your dog (though I dont like that analogy). It is a little bit of confusion/mixed-up to put sex in a good friendship, especially for people of the same sex... Is it because there is "to love" and "to make love", I am not sure why, but there is a kind of confusion there... Or maybe because one wants more than 'platonic" love, the compassion becomes passion and then there is a lost of control...

Anyhow, as I said, if none is hurt, I do not mind what you guys are doing...

[RJA]

What we see in the physical around us is just a snapshot in time in which *God*'s plan is unfolding.  This plan involves elevating the spiritual consciousness of individuals, cultures and the human race in total.  I guess this process could be seen as God bringing about spiritual evolution.  And since different people and cultures are at different levels at different times in history God reveals spiritual principles to them that are meant to nudge them upwards, rather than provide them with "ultimate truth" that they are not yet prepared to handle.

Consequently I believe that the Old Testament was addressed to the Israelites in accordance with where they, as a people, were at spiritually.  They were not yet ready to have individual relationships with God, but rather were conditioned to perceive themselves as being under a group covenent.  Thus, to push them up the ladder of spiritual evolution what was necessary at that time was a system of rules that would move their culture forward a little at a time.  The prohibition against homosexuality, seen in this context, had to do with being a part of a group, and engaging in behaviors that were best for the group as a whole.

Jesus represents the transition from a group covenent to an individual covenent - i.e. the Jewish culture had evolved sufficiently that spiritually, some of them were able to enter into an individual relationship with God.  Thus Jesus' emphasis on living by the Spirit instead of adhering to legalism.  The New Testament writers struggled with this concept and their writings, while certainly having spiritual meaning for us today, were aimed at the culture of 2000 years ago.  So the teachings were more spiritually evolved than those of the Old Testament (i.e. let's not stone and kill people any more), but still contained ideas that we today, being even more spiritually evolved, find distateful (support of slavery, oppression of women, etc.).  

Having had another 2,000 years to grow spiritually, many Christians today are moving into new interpretations that take Biblical teachings much less literally - focusing instead of the spiritual principles and ideas conveyed, and getting even further away from legalism.  Thus we see more acceptance of homosexuality in certain denominations.  But because Christians today cover a wide swath of the spectrum of spiritual evolution there are still those groups that cling to much more literal views.  This is a good thing, because it shows God's plan at work - meeting people where they are at spiritually and moving everyone (individuals, culture's and the human race) forward slowly but surely.  Granted this process occurs slowly enough that in the span of one life we may not see dramatic change in the entire human race, but we can experience dramatic change in ourselves and help to nudge those around us in the right direction.

When God's plan is seen in this light, I believe it demonstrates that the Bible is even more powerful as a teaching tool than historically regarded, because it does not just lend itself to one interpretation but when understood properly with the guidance of the Holy Spirit can speak to Christians at any point along that spectrum of spiritual evolution.

And in a larger sense I believe that the Judeo-Christian religious tradition is just one of many processes that God is using to accomplish the overall plan of spiritual evolution for all humanity.  It happens to be the tradition that I was born into so it is appropriate to me, and yet I can see God's truth being gradually unfolded/revealed in different ways and at a different pace in all cultures.  So while at the lower end of the spectrum world religion's seem quite different, as you move up the spectrum into the more esoteric teachings of Christianity (mysticism), Islam (Sufism), Judaism (Kaballah), etc. - they seem to be describing a very similar God and a very similar process of spiritual enlightenment - so that it's not much of a stretch to see them all converging farther on up the spectrum.  (And incidentally even secular disciplines aimed at discovering truth such as psychology and physics even seem to be following a similar course such that they seem to also be zero-ing in on that ultiamte truth way up at the end of the spectrum).

For me, when I view creation, as well as my own spiritual views and those of my cultural contemporaries and the world over in this light then all of the seemingly unreconcilable things present in creation begin to fit together - kind of like a huge, multi-dimensional, cosmic puzzle slowly assembling itself.

And, ... what were we talking about again!? [] - oh, yeah - homosexuality - so anyway as we personally move further up the ladder of spiritual evolution I believe we become less judgemental and more concerned with what's going on inside ourselves than with what others are doing with their body parts.  

[Rob]

Red Elk claims that homosexuality is caused by past life memories - if someone has been of the opposite sex for 2 or 3 previous incarnations then their other-world memories will reflect this. Being gay is therefore a confusion of the mind, and RE says that he has straightened out every single gay person to come to him. Simply by telling the nagual to keep its memories to itself! Sure is an interesting hypothesis.

[Nay]

Interesting that this topic came up, right after I was chatting with another person from the forums [] (you know who you are) about this same thing..and the conversation ended with him getting ticked and telling me to find God..LOL  Of course I never got to express anymore because he hung-up on me..hehe

I could care less whom other ppl love, as long as they are loving each other..I have also thought for years that it might have something to do with past-lives...but of course I don't know for sure, sooooo...but it seems plausible.  I am not saying that to find a reason for it either.... I like what Beth said..energy loving energy.  

And adding to what Gandalf said, I think ppl blame God WAY too much or use him as an excuse.. I am sure he is sick of ppl saying.."tis the way of God, he hates gay ppl".. I just know he is rolling his eyes every time that line is said.  He gave us a free will for a reason..and isn't he a NON judging God?...I really don't get it.

Nay []

[Anonymous]

God is in fact non-judging, and the reason we have free will is also because it happens to be his will. Think about it. God has free will, so if we have his will, then we also have free will. Without the Holy Spirit (or whatever you call it in your religion), we would be at the mercy of others' wills. This is why people who join the Dark Forces (not to sound like George Lucas here) become soulless entities who hate everything alive. Because they lose their free will and are slaves to the darkness. This is why it is not a sin for gays to be gay. It's as simple as God not judging them. I don't see too many other religions prosecuting gays or casting them out as being evil.

Anyway, that's what I think. Pretty much all of my beliefs come from Christianity, but not from the Church, as it has been my experience that churches rely far too much on dogma. Yet all of my beliefs have Christian roots. So.... that's what I think.

[kakkarot]

NON-judging? O.o

that's just funny. God is a judging God, but He is a fair judge and He does not use the same standards as we might think Him to or want Him to.

but just because He judges, doesn't mean He isn't compassionate too. i mean, after all, God is not some one-dimensional (flat) character out of an old mystery novel; He is a living God who is at least as complex in character as humans are.

but back to the homosexuality, paul states in the bible:  

quote:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.

(taken from bible.com, Romans 1:24-28) and that seems to be the only viewpoint on homosexuality in the bible (that i can find). HOWEVER you really must read the surrounding verses before blindly believing what it says there because it seems to clarify the issue to be towards a certain type of people (those who have turned away from God?).

~kakkarot

[Beth]

As I have posted elsewhere many times, allegorical interpretation is necessary here to fully understand these verses.  Like Paul teaches in Galatians about Sarah and Hagar representing two convenants, I posted very early on how the biblical writers and scholars of the first century interpreted the masculine and feminine:

"Man" = "mind/reason"
"Woman" = "intuition/senses"

Male homosexuality = "minds" without "intuition/senses"
Female homosexuality = "intuitions" with without "mind/reason"

In other words, "thinking with reason" without using "our intuition", or using our "intuition without reason" are both "missing the mark" or "commiting lustful/lazy sins."

We must strive to maintain a harmonious balance using both of these traits, and specifically--not to just adopt what other people's "minds or intuitions" say about God, but to come to our own conclusions "using both our own intuition and our own mind."  This allows for the Holy Spirit to speak to each individual in a manner in which that person is uniquely prepared.  Otherwise, we are only listening to each other and adopting the prescribed "dogmas" of others.

What Paul is referring to in these verses is idolotry of all kinds--most especially those of the Roman ilk, e.g., monetary wealth, polythesistic representations of God and Goddessess, and a devotion to the flesh instead of to God through gluttony, greed and yes, promiscuous sexual relations, of every kind, rampant and out of control.  All of these things lead to a "depraved mind" which is a mind that is not devoted to God.  

quote:Verse 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

 But as Paul then says in Chapter 2,

quote:21You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

We should therefore be very careful before we judge others.  I for one know many God loving, spiritual people who have found partners of the same sex who are being terribly hurt by misinterpretations of the scriptures. But do you know what is most amazing about this?  They have NOT given up on God--or Christianity.

Peace,
Beth

[Beth]

p.s. And I must now address something VERY, VERY important--

GOD is NOT a HE.  GOD IS MIND.

Peace,
Beth

[Nay]

Well, if it is ok with you Beth, can we call Mind, HE?...just to avoid confusion?  Because when I use the term HE, I really don't have in mind some dude..[^]

[Beth]

Nay,

You can of course doing anything you choose.  

I only mention this because to continue to use a masculine pronoun for God, or a feminine one for that matter, continues to keep God within "our image" instead of working toward trying to find ourselves in the "Image of God."

Peace,
Beth

[Nay]

Ahhh..  Yes, I have thought for some time now that "God" was made up of both male/female energies, but it is just easier to say he instead of he/she all the time.lol

Nay []

[wisp]

I'm sure God know who He is. []

Beth,
Right and Left brain has to to with our own ability to perform thinking functions. Your description is more of that being your higher self or even a spirit guide. Your higher self is a spirit, therefore vulnerable to error.
The Holy Spirit does not error. The Holy Spirit does not cause division among others. I have been spending the last few years learning of the Higher Self and Spirit Guides. Your descriptions and thinking methods are self generated I suspect. I know it's just my opinion. But it certainly explains why so much of what you say is opposite of what are generally accepted opinions about Christian belief and the Bible. That doesn't mean your wrong in (your) thinking, it just means your source is You (or a guide), and your calling it Holy Spirit. This is hardly appropiate to be proclaiming messages FOR others in the name of Holy Spirit, what you call your spirit for yourself is your business. It seems to explain some of the confusion in what you say. If this was coming from the Holy Spirit, would this conversation would be taking place? Does Holy Spirit debate?