AP Adventures outside the norm

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Gandalf

whooow!

Frank, once you get going there's no stopping you (which is great!)

I can't wait for the books, I think you will have plenty material. I think Monroe's method is a good way of publishing, ie a beginners book for those being introduced to the subject, an intermediate book and a third advanced book.
Although i feel that with the sheer amount of info you have, we could be looking at more than three books.

Doug
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Telos

Wow, what a great thread!

Frank and MajorTom, will you consider putting your respective posts in the FAQ section?

I think they answer the classic questions, "What are the Focus of Consciousness?" and "What is the context and significance of different dream terminology?" (or similar questions). :)

Frank

"The experience....for the most part...remains the same..."

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Whatever a person calls it, it is still an objective viewing of subjective reality within Focus 2 of consciousness. Unless you happen to project to the RTZ, of course, in which case you are viewing objective reality, which by definition means you are at Focus 1oC.

The thrust of my thinking is, if people would know exactly what it is they are doing and "where" they are doing it, then all the confusion over the various terms would just fade away.

Telos: great idea, I'll add my post as a supplement to my Phasing post in the FAQ section.

Regards all,
Frank

mactombs

I like what Frank has to say, too, and I'm looking forward to see how his book turns out. But I have to be honest, such long and complicated expositions are sometimes hard to get through. While I think the Focus models of consciousness are more accurate that the older ones, they are very difficult to remember what they mean, and can make reading about an exciting topic rather like a Math textbook...

If Telos is focusing at 4oC and Major Tom is focusing at 2oC, what is the probability that Telos will encounter Major Tom at the oC equivalent of F12 assuming time does not exist?

Maybe part of it is that less-experienced folks are more interested in getting there and reading about what happened than the minutia of a model for consciousness (even if that model does make getting there easier to understand in the long run). Not that the minutia isn't fascinating, especially if you have experience, but relatively few do, and even less have enough experience. That's why techniques are so popular, I think, although Frank's Jeet-Kune-Do of Projecting probably makes more sense.

I also don't understand how 2oC can have everything that has ever or will ever exist, and yet there's 3oC and 4oC somehow distinctly separate. And just what does separate these? Also, what's the difference between a dream or fantasy in 2oC and a lucid dream? Why are they different? Why isn't there just a physical state and a non-physical state?

What's the difference, in terms of reality, between someones experience reading this forum and their experience in a fantasy world like this thread is about? Are they equally valid?
A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist - Sigmund Freud

Telos

mactombs, those are great questions. I'm not sure I completely understand the FoC model, but I hope I can simplify it.

F1oC - Physical world
F2oC - Phenomenal Imagination and Emotional Subconscious
F3oC - Area of anticipation and transition to F4oC
F4oC - Really great area... I mean, really great, so great that you probably need to spend some time in F3oC.

We could stop at F1oC and F2oC and just divide reality into the physical and the non-physical, but the reason that we don't is, I think, because non-physical reality stretches beyond imagination - phenomena and feelings that can't be justified as any old phenomena and feelings.

It would definitely be wrong, I think, to say that each area is like it's own little box. And it would also be wrong, I think, to say that they fall on a linear continuum. And of course, it is a model, which means it's a way of describing something and talking about it, and is not how things actually are.

QuoteIf Telos is focusing at 4oC and Major Tom is focusing at 2oC, what is the probability that Telos will encounter Major Tom at the oC equivalent of F12 assuming time does not exist?

I don't know... is there probability without time? That wasn't meant to confuse you or dodge the question.

I've had a lot of really great experiences, but I'm not sure I understand F4oC very well (as a model element) except as having an exceptionally great myriad of essential feeling to it, and power. Well, I've had a lot of great lucid dreams like that... but for some reason I have not been very well awakened to all the "secrets" of reality creation... [Edit: but I feel pretty close!]

Gandalf

Telos:

Yeah, the FoC model is a good system but people should not just look at it and think its all neat and tidy, as one level of awareness flows into another.. so you get states inbetween various states, eg classic case is when you are in the rtz but experience reality fluctuations.. these might only be mild but if they get out of hand then you will phase right into FoC2

Also within each 'state' of consiousness there are practically an infinate number of 'areas', or realms or however hoy want to describe them, like what i was saying in another thread.. the upper FoC3 or monroes' f27 contains a myriad of different enviroments.. you could spend 'centuries' visiting them all (and only experience a few)... so its great fun. the more restricted areas of FoC3 are really fun to visit too, the 'belief' centre zones, although this is a slightly restrictive model as this region of awareness included an awesome amount of belief structures of all descriptions but the monroe/moen term applies to the more classic variety eg heaven hell etc... try checking those places out some time..

for example, i found myself in a war zone one time.. it was kind of fun joining in for a bit,  but it was difficult because it felt so real that i would often forget i was an outsider so i can see how it could be easy to get wrapped up in such areas...

apparantly people can get stuck in these areas for centuries or longer in our terms..
I want to see if i can find anyone still stuck in a classical belief structure, eg wandering around hades or hanging out in the Elsiyum fields with the gods! I bet there are still some people in such enviroments! Sounds great fun!

There really isnt enough space to cover them all.. there is so much out there!

Doug
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

MJ-12


Telos

MajorTom, thank you once again. Your insight on the usage of these terms is valuable.

QuoteOnce you start projecting frequently you will find these experiences no longer fitting into easy to swallow packs of information, and regrettably suddenly people start dismissing very valid experiences of their own.

Yes, I agree. I believe I have done this to myself regarding many experiences.

I think this problem as it exists in this forum is exacerbated by the description of the Dreams section. It states:

QuoteEverything pertaining to Dreams, Dream Journals, Dream Analysis, Lucid Dreaming, Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming, and related issues.

I don't know about the rest of you, but everything in that description has been and continues to be the bedrock for my studies on subjective reality. (It may have something to do with my youth and relatively recent popular acceptance of the term "lucid dreaming.")

Because of this, I think that all of those things are essential to keeping one's mind and possibilities open while also keeping a grip on things. And I think it's unfortunate that those topics seem couched in a middle and seemingly minor section of the forum - effectively distanced from the main sections.

Do any of you have an opinion on this?

Tombo

I
Quotethink this problem as it exists in this forum is exacerbated by the description of the Dreams section. It states:

Quote:
Everything pertaining to Dreams, Dream Journals, Dream Analysis, Lucid Dreaming, Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming, and related issues.



I don't know about the rest of you, but everything in that description has been and continues to be the bedrock for my studies on subjective reality. (It may have something to do with my youth and relatively recent popular acceptance of the term "lucid dreaming.")

Because of this, I think that all of those things are essential to keeping one's mind and possibilities open while also keeping a grip on things. And I think it's unfortunate that those topics seem couched in a middle and seemingly minor section of the forum - effectively distanced from the main sections.

Do any of you have an opinion on this?

I totally agree! This is a awesome forum but the dream section is definitely to small. I think one needful step in the further development of the Astralpulse is the upgrading of the dream section. A more emphasized dreaming section would possibly draw more "dream experts" to the Pulse which, I believe; would make further discusions even more "complete"

I personally feel that dreams can play a significant role in the understanding of the wider reality.
" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

-St John of the Cross

Andali27

Just a little off topic.

He he, :lol:  :lol:   I'm laughing now cause this is the second time I started a thread and it's been taken over by people who know me than me!  I'm not bothered by it, I think it's great!  keep going!

Andali
~*~*If you long for your dreams and your dreams cannot wait, turn your life into dreams and control your own fate...*~*~

http://www.digital-transition.net

TOTALANATION

Tombo

As I understand you guys you say:

1) describing reality via a modell is a problem cause the modell will never contain the whole picture and therefore we will start to dismiss experiences that do not fit the modell.

2) If we use a modell the phasing theorie is most accurate

This makes sense to me, but some problems will arise naturally from here:

-In order to commuicate about something in a usefull way, we need a modell and definitions

-The phasing modell is hard to gasp for me cause it appears pretty abstract. I personally need to picture things, my brain ( and I guess most otheres) loves to picture things and to think in modells.
This is were the 7-Plane-Modells and stuff like that came in handy. You fly up and you go to the next layer.......Blabla.....

To get me wrong I like Franks theorie and it might very well be more accurate then any theorie before. But how can I picture it?
How most I imagine these different Focus Levels? Are they all at the same place? Do I need to pass Level 2 to get to Level 3 or can I go from 1 to 3 straight? What comes beyond Level 4? Is there something outside level 1?
I also have difficulties to understand what actually is traveling around. In the traditionel theories you had the Astral Body.......what is it in  the Phasing-Modell? Are we some kind of a point of consciousness? What are we really?
Then eventually questions like:
-How many focus Levles are there?
-Who created them?
-What porpose do they serve?
-What is a Soul?
and so on will arise........Well, I guess I might be talking to myself..........

In a nutshell: Frank, Please include some drawings in your book! :lol:

Cheers Tom
" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

-St John of the Cross

Frank

I also don't understand how 2oC can have everything that has ever or will ever exist, and yet there's 3oC and 4oC somehow distinctly separate. And just what does separate these? Also, what's the difference between a dream or fantasy in 2oC and a lucid dream? Why are they different? Why isn't there just a physical state and a non-physical state?



I'm going to answer Mactomb's points above, and hopefully this should give a little more infill in relation to the true structure of the wider reality.

This physical system was created from a set of archetypes or blueprints. There was no "big bang" that came from nowhere and started it all. We created it. When I say "we" I don't necessarily mean you and I. I mean "we" as in all of us but not as we see ourselves now, but humans in our natural state as energy essences.

The archetypes or blueprints are held within Focus 4 of consciousness. All the original models, all the original plans, etc., etc., in a manner of speaking, for our physical reality and every other physical reality within our system, are all held in Focus 4. Plus, there are millions and millions of people resident there as well. I don't know how many people there are. If it is not infinite then it's a huge number. Simply too huge for the mind to contemplate when held by the confines of physical focus. But when I say "people" they are not people in the sense of them taking a human form, or any other form for that matter.

Focus 4 can be thought of as the creative source for all physical realities within our system. Plus, Focus 4 is also the creative source for other realities that exist within consciousness that are part of our system, but these realities are realities that are not physically oriented.

The people who reside within Focus 4 have no form at all. They exist as energy essences, or what we might call a point of consciousness. I'm not sure how many people will remember the kids TV sci-fi series of about 30 years ago, or so. It was called Captain Scarlet and you had what were known as the Voice of the Mysterons. They were these mysterious beings that would talk to you out of nowhere. Well, that's a bit like how it is communicating with people who live within Focus 4oC.

You Phase into what feels like a huge interconnecting communications network. In a way it's like plugging your computer into the Internet. But you are plugging your mind into an infinite network of other minds. There is, of course, a LOT more to it than that. But in a nutshell that's the simplest explanation I can come up with. While it is an exciting thing to do, I have to mention that it is not for the feint of heart, or for anyone who is not totally grounded in themselves mentally.

The "problem" you might say, is you can get to feeling like you have "lost your own mind".

Thing is, we get so used to having only ourselves in mind. And communicating in this area is fully mind-to-mind. So what you do is merge your mind with another mind or minds (now multiple merging is really freaky, lol) and you communicate via thoughts, imagery, feelings, and so forth, in ways that are appropriate for the subject matter you are communicating about.

In a sense, though, it feels like someone is "invading" your mind, and the more egotistical parts of you may battle against it. With me it took about a hundred attempts before I became comfortable with the process.      

Apart from Phasing to the place, there are two humongous challenges in thinking associated with Focus 4 of consciousness, as follows:

1) It is an area of purely subjective reality. So nothing actually exists as an objective observable form.

2) It is an area of simultaneous time, as opposed to linear time that we experience within this physical reality. So everything that is about to happen, has happened and is happening, is all happening at once within the same moment (within infinity everything happens an infinite number of times).  

When it comes to setting up a physical world "system" certain "supply lines" and "structures" have to be put into place. Each physical world system has 3 basic areas of consciousness that ultimately "connect" to Focus 4. So the "main" area or ultimate creative source, is Focus 4. This area is common to all the physical worlds that are "connected" to it. Focus 4 is what you might call an "umbrella" area, and the other 3 areas of each physical world within our system are "nested" within that overall umbrella.

So say you had Focus 4 and 100 physical-world realities. Note: there is actually an infinite number of other physical-world realities within our whole system. But here let us say there are just 100.

Each physical reality has a Focus 1, obviously, because physical reality is Focus 1. So there are 100 Focus 1's, together with 100 Focus 2's and 100 Focus 3's. Each of these areas is nested within one Focus 4.

The best way of thinking of Focus 4, IMO, is to think of it as the ultimate creative source of all that exists within our entire system. In other words, all the original plans, archetypes, models, etc., etc. of all the physical realities "connected" to Focus 4, are held within this area.

Focus 3 is a Transition Area that is reserved for people "returning" from their physical experience. People generally have to go through a period of shaking off all the belief constructs they brought into objective reality during their physical experience, to enable them to merge fully with subjective reality again. At which point they can decide what to experience next. Focus 3 also has sections that serve as what could be termed areas of our "collective unconscious" but for the purposes of this post, thinking of it as a Transition Area will suffice.    

Focus 2 is a rather interesting area, well, they are all interesting areas, but Focus 2 takes on a more "individualised" tone, which makes it a bit special.

Each person has a vast "section" of Focus 2 "reserved" for them.

The original archetypes held in Focus 4, that are to do with all the potential states and probabilities possible within our particular physical dimension, are "downloaded" into Focus 2. What people then do is pick and choose whatever actions they fancy and "play" with them within their area of Focus 2.

Essentially, the action of doing this creates a pool of individual probabilities within Focus 2, and each person in question decides which of these probabilities to bring into objective reality, i.e. bring into Focus 1.

In other words, each individual creates their reality subjectively within Focus 2, and then they "insert" it into Focus 1 on an ongoing basis.

Please note: not all physical realities are built on the same basis. Not all physical realities, for example, incorporate emotions like we do. So the potential states and probabilities possible for other physical dimensions will naturally vary. Therefore, each physical reality will have a correspondingly different set of potential states and probabilities "downloaded" into their Focus 2 area. But the ultimate source for all these potential states and probabilities, is Focus 4.  

The 4 areas of consciousness are NOT distinctly separate. They are intertwined immeasurably, and each area is associated with particular actions, explorations, and/or movements in consciousness; while being fully connected to, and interacting with, each of the other areas.

An area of consciousness is not a designation of a level.

It is not a place or thing.

It is not an area in space.

An area of consciousness is a focus of attention!.

As I said in my other post to this thread, within these designated areas, an individual may choose to focus their attention and move in directions associated with their choice of exploration. If a person really wishes to confuse themselves, they can focus within all 4 areas at the same time. But the most productive way is to focus within one area at once. This typically means Phasing away from the physical (Focus 1) and focusing their attention within another area.  

The difference between a dream or a lucid dream within Focus 2oC is simply the level of a person's objective awareness. These experiences differ in the manner of the extent to which each individual wishes to offer themselves an objective knowing, of their ability to become objectively aware within this area of consciousness.

A person can think of the divide, so to speak, as being the difference between the physical and the non-physical. But that is not entirely accurate. Likewise with the more traditional "astral" constructs. These are translations of what people objectively observed at the time, and were obviously related to their beliefs. But again they are not entirely accurate.

As human beings, we have progressively engaged in more effective belief constructs that hold the promise of getting to "the truth". This is why, over the past couple of hundred years, we have been progressively moving away from the old religious constructs, and adopting what we see as more "valid" constructs pertaining to our physical sciences.

This is why I always chuckle when I hear people talking about science and religion "coming together". They never do come together. In a hundred years time there won't be a religious construct to be seen. Like all the other dinosaurs they'll all be dead and gone.

Yours,
Frank

mactombs

Thanks, Frank, that clarifies a lot.

I understand now what you're saying ... I just need to keep it in mind next time I read your posts. :)

I like this model, it makes more sense to me than other ones, and 4 focuses are so much easier to track than ... 24, is it?

QuoteThis physical system was created from a set of archetypes or blueprints. There was no "big bang" that came from nowhere and started it all. We created it.

This gets to the question you have with religion. If there was no Big Bang, God made everything, then were did God come from? Where did We come from? Or is it that we simply don't understand anything that isn't constrained by time?
A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist - Sigmund Freud

Tombo

Thanks for the insightful post Frank

There are two words a have a hard time understanding and I would be happy if you could help me out and explain them (again), because I think they are vital to understand.
I'm talking about objective vs. subjective
You use them quite often in your posts.
Thanks Tom
" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

-St John of the Cross

Andali27

QuoteIn a hundred years time there won't be a religious construct to be seen. Like all the other dinosaurs they'll all be dead and gone.

Gotta disagree with you there Frank.  If in a hundred years there's no religion I'd be very surprised.  That would mean people would have to pretty much trash religious accounts such as the Bible and other such books and records.  That would also mean that some things that have been 'predicted' in the bible, would also have to be considered false when evidence to prove them true is growing stronger.  My opinion, the answers we really want are in the Vatican.  It's common opinion that they've edited the Bible over time, taking away things from it that may prove their religion false.

The only reason more and more people are turning away from religion is because they refuse to believe something that would remove them from their zone of comfort, so to speak.  More things are becoming available that peak their interest away from religious things.  Over time, the world is going to rack and ruin.  If there was no religion and no belief in God in 100 years time, we'd be living in a world full for war, famine, disease (hmm, sounds familiar?) and we wouldn't be able to turn a corner without some government faction sticking its noes up our rears.  That's not how the vast majority of the world wants to live.

QuoteThis gets to the question you have with religion. If there was no Big Bang, God made everything, then where did God come from? Where did We come from? Or is it that we simply don't understand anything that isn't constrained by time?

Is it too hard to believe that it was "always there?"  Like a circle?  No beginning, no end.  If you're referring to God as Jesus then, obviously he had a father once, maybe in heaven as a spirit, or ethric being, or however you want to term it.  Coming to Earth may have been the only way to experience the Physical, to progress beyond what we/he already knew.  But in doing so, throw a spanner in the works and erase memory.  That way, you have a choice.  Live in the physical, discover the right way to go, when you die, return to heaven much much wiser then before on more levels than one.  Like generations through time, maybe God's father had a father, and then his father had a father and so on and so forth.

I like the idea: we simply don't understand anything that isn't constrained by time

It's probably not even on the same time scale that we're used.  Maybe 'God' exists in F15, state of no time, or maybe there is time, just not as we understand it.  In a computer simulation I did once in a class at Multimedia, we decided to see how fast we could get an image to move.  Eventually it was going so fast it was standing still.  So the story goes, God created the Earth in seven days, six to be precise because on the seventh day he rested.  You couldn't very well create a world in seven earth days so time in that sense must be something we don't understand.

Then again, another interesting theory someone I know came up with was that perhaps our entire world exists within someone else's focus whatever oC.  Maybe 4oC or another like it.  When we phase, or project or whatever, what we're going into is someone else's reality and when we create what we want in those levels, we're out of sync with the rest of the program, a matrix type thing but based on different laws.

We create our reality, true enough, but in a sense, our reality was there when we came to earth, and we built up from it.

I don't believe in the big bang theory, I can't understand the scientific concept that once there were two atoms, they got happy, and poof! , There's our world!  Where did the atoms come from I wonder?  Scientists are only beginning to suddenly realise that our Universe may be infinite.  They grapple with that, trying to put a mathematic formula to it when it's something they'll probably never be able to understand because it exits beyond their level of thinking.

There may very well be a God but not a God in the bible sense but a God of our reality.  The guy responsible for everything we are, discovered and have.  Earth may be just another Focus oC, something small on a much larger scale that we may not understand.

I've wandered all over the place with this.  I'm not trying to diss anyone's theories here, just presenting another point of view for consideration.  Be open minded with this one people!

Andali
~*~*If you long for your dreams and your dreams cannot wait, turn your life into dreams and control your own fate...*~*~

http://www.digital-transition.net

TOTALANATION

Frank

Andali:

I respect your view, all I would say is for you to prepare, then, for a big surprise. :)

Again someone has highlighted the very reason why I am working flat out to try and convince people to adopt the Phasing approach, and Phase to Focus 4 of consciousness. With respect, there is nothing in the Vatican worth knowing. Focus 4 is the place anyone needs to go if they want these kinds of questions answered.

Also, if I may put my mod cap on for a second, the thread topic is about having AP adventures beyond the norm. So I wanted to just say, not specifically to you Andali, but to say generally, for us to please not let the thread veer off topic, and start debating whether or not there will still be religion in however-many years, or whether god created the earth, etc. We can debate that if we like, certainly, if someone wants to start a new thread for that purpose.

Yours,
Frank

mactombs

QuoteAgain someone has highlighted the very reason why I am working flat out to try and convince people to adopt the Phasing approach, and Phase to Focus 4 of consciousness. With respect, there is nothing in the Vatican worth knowing. Focus 4 is the place anyone needs to go if they want these kinds of questions answered.

I think that answers any questions I had left.  :wink:
A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist - Sigmund Freud

Prolatrevol

If there is no religion it will increase life span because religion only slows people's spirituality bible is partially true accounts part exaggerations and part lies as was in other mythologies of the ancients so the same would probably happen in the case of 100 years no religion. God Created laws of the universe , the universe, and the founders, founders created Lyrans and other extraterrestrials. From there we eventually came. When "Adam" was created by a group of Lyrans ,Vegans, Pleiadians. They used Pleiadian DNA to make us because their planet was most like ours and they. Many "Adams" were made and tested all around the world then from the "Adam" DNA "Eve" was made as a female counter part. Its all in the bible just some things are changed some things are taken out but its all in the "Prism of Lyra" you should pick it up some time it has enhanced my life

Andali27

Prolatrevol, what are you talking about?  Pleiadians are meant to be aliens or something!

On another note:
Frank
Quoteall I would say is for you to prepare, then, for a big surprise

Care to elaborate?   :D I could say the same thing! :D

Andali
~*~*If you long for your dreams and your dreams cannot wait, turn your life into dreams and control your own fate...*~*~

http://www.digital-transition.net

TOTALANATION

Telos

Wow, Andali. You make contradicting Frank look so easy. :)

Nostic

Quote from: TelosWow, Andali. You make contradicting Frank look so easy. :)

LOL, yeah, she's standing up against the king of the AP forums.  :D  8)

Andali27

Quoteshe's standing up against the king of the AP forums

Now you're scaring me :shock: .  He'll probably never help me with anything again!  

Andali

P.S. I really see no harm in expressing what I believe in.  I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.  I mean, people thought the guy who said the world was round was a nutter.  Hearing all corners of the spectrum helps people develop their own views, and I greatly respect Frank's view, theories and the many other valuable things he offers this forum.
~*~*If you long for your dreams and your dreams cannot wait, turn your life into dreams and control your own fate...*~*~

http://www.digital-transition.net

TOTALANATION

Nostic

Quote from: Andali27
Quoteshe's standing up against the king of the AP forums

Now you're scaring me :shock: .  He'll probably never help me with anything again!  

Andali

P.S. I really see no harm in expressing what I believe in.  I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.  I mean, people thought the guy who said the world was round was a nutter.  Hearing all corners of the spectrum helps people develop their own views, and I greatly respect Frank's view, theories and the many other valuable things he offers this forum.

LOL, no I thought it was pretty cool actually. And I think Frank is mature enough to harbor no ill will. You just stated your beliefs... no biggie.  :wink:

Nostic

Quote from: TomboThanks for the insightful post Frank

There are two words a have a hard time understanding and I would be happy if you could help me out and explain them (again), because I think they are vital to understand.
I'm talking about objective vs. subjective
You use them quite often in your posts.
Thanks Tom

An objective world is a world that appears to exist separate from you. A subjective world however responds to your thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

Andali27

Nostic, I think Admin should crown him king or something.  I mean, almost everyone would agree that without him, no one would get anywhere!
~*~*If you long for your dreams and your dreams cannot wait, turn your life into dreams and control your own fate...*~*~

http://www.digital-transition.net

TOTALANATION