Can't concentrate while visualizing

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M4RT1N

When I try to AP I usually visualize that I'm in my house, I walk, touch things, smell things, look at things, listen to things... After about 10 minutes of doing that i just can't concentrate anymore and I just start visualizing other things and completely forget what I was doing. I know meditation should help but what meditation would be best for this kind of technique? If I visualize a ball spinning then I'll just quickly lose focus and that will turn into something else.

LightBeam

To me visualization has to be about something enjoyable and interesting in order to keep my attention for at least 20 min. So, if you get bored exploring your house, then switch to a location that excites you, even if you have just seen it in photos, movies, etc. You can create your own reality and explore it. The point of visualization is to transport your consciousness some place else, and thus shift your internal energy. I just wanted to mention that visualization should be done WHILE you are falling asleep if you intend to AP, because the prelude between physical senses shut down and conscious awareness is critical for a successful AP. Many people do visualization during the day, which is beneficial of course bit it rarely leads to an AP if one is too awake.
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

M4RT1N

Quote from: LightBeam on May 26, 2014, 18:15:10
visualization should be done WHILE you are falling asleep if you intend to AP, because the prelude between physical senses shut down and conscious awareness is critical for a successful AP.

When I try to stay awake while falling asleep I fall asleep in seconds, if I'd visualize then I would fall asleep even faster!

AAAAAAAA

Quote from: M4RT1N on May 26, 2014, 18:27:41
When I try to stay awake while falling asleep I fall asleep in seconds, if I'd visualize then I would fall asleep even faster!

Visualizing whilst falling asleep actually helps to "set the scene" per se. Also, as far as losing concentration goes, I think that it's kind of a built tolerance. The more you practice, the longer you'll be able to keep your concentration.

LightBeam

Quote from: M4RT1N on May 26, 2014, 18:27:41
When I try to stay awake while falling asleep I fall asleep in seconds, if I'd visualize then I would fall asleep even faster!

I have a solution for you, and I am guilty of not following that rule and many times when I am tired I just pass out. So, don't wait until you are very sleepy to go to bed. We all know what our bed time usually is and when do we get so tired to a point where we naturally go to bed. However, in order to do some visualization while falling asleep, but hold it for at least 20 minutes, you need to get to bed 1/2 hr before your usual sleep time, so your mind is still fresh. By the time you hit the 20 to 30 min mark you will already get sleepy and you will naturally fall asleep. Let the though of that place be the last as your senses shut down and you will have a pretty good chance to LD or be awaken in the middle of the night by strong vibes. Just remember, when you start practicing this method, give it a t lest two to three weeks for your energies to shift and to be awaken in SP during sleep. So be patient.
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

EscapeVelocity

Like both LightBeam and AAAAAAAA said,

any opportunity to meditate and visualize is good preparation for when the opportunity arises.

But, as LightBeam was pointing out, you need to become familiar with the best state of mind for transitioning from a visualization into an AP. That state of mind only occurs briefly as we fall asleep every evening; we usually can't make use of it because the inertia of the physical body falling asleep pulls the conscious awareness down with it.

Therefore, the best time to try Phasing is when the physical body is partially rested, but still can readily slip back into sleep. Then, the mind has a better chance of resisting the pull of the physical and remain aware. This can be done after 2,3,4 or 5 hours of sleep, as in the Wake, Back To Bed technique. Or, you can try setting your alarm for an hour or two before your normal wake-up time. Or try an afternoon nap.

My additional advice would be to try a more interesting visualization or Rundown. I have found that a Rundown that utilizes rhythmic movement, especially up & down, gets my energy body fired up. Then, at some point, the Rundown takes on a life of its own and you simply begin noticing until you get dropped into that scene or another.

Some Rundown ideas: Dancing, swimming, diving, waterskiing or snowskiing, snowboarding, flying, parasailing, motocrossing, sledding, trampoline bouncing, mountain-biking...you get the idea.

Give that a try for a week or two. Throw in some affirmations, too. Good luck!
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
                                                          -O. Wilde

LightBeam

Yes, EV, I too combine visualization with motion. Usually when I wake up in the middle of the night briefly, I have programmed my mind to remember to start doing motion while going back to sleep. The easiest thing is to pretend that your bed is a swing and start internally sway from side to side. Many times, as I fall asleep, instant vibes occur and I find myself in SP. When I visualize before bed, I usually like to run fast, or spin. That helps a lot and even when I am awake when I start spinning, that gets a little inner shakes which are signs that I will be able to AP later. So, yes definitely combine with some sort of motion.
"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."
Captain Jack Sparrow

Astralsuzy

Quote from: M4RT1N on May 26, 2014, 17:54:08
When I try to AP I usually visualize that I'm in my house, I walk, touch things, smell things, look at things, listen to things... After about 10 minutes of doing that i just can't concentrate anymore and I just start visualizing other things and completely forget what I was doing. I know meditation should help but what meditation would be best for this kind of technique? If I visualize a ball spinning then I'll just quickly lose focus and that will turn into something else.
I have not read the other replies so I could be saying the same thing.
Do not be too hard on yourself.   You are doing fine.   Visualise something for a while and when you start to get bored, stop what you are doing.   Meditate for a while and try again.   You do not have to be good at visualising to be able to ap.   You do not have to smell or touch things to ap.   Do something that is easy for you.   If it is easy then you are likely to stay with it.   Do not force yourself to see something as that will put a strain and will make ap harder.   Sometimes I imagine something and it does not work.     Other times I imagine something and I ap   When it does not work it means you are not ready to ap at that moment.  Perhaps your body and mind is not relaxed enough.

Astralsuzy

Quote from: M4RT1N on May 26, 2014, 18:27:41
When I try to stay awake while falling asleep I fall asleep in seconds, if I'd visualize then I would fall asleep even faster!
I am sorry but I disagree with this.   You do not visualise while you are falling asleep otherwise you will most likely fall asleep.   You visualise when you are aware and awake.    It works.   You have to be patient.   

M4RT1N

I've been skiing a lot and I usually just lose focus after a few minutes but when I start skiing and 20 seconds later do some other random things I can concentrate for a long time, but after maybe 20 minutes I just get bored because nothing's happening. When do I actually AP? I feel like I can keep visualizing for hours and nothing's going to happen.

Also, does it matter if I hear music/thoughts in my mind while visualizing?

dust8879



I used to have the exact same problems as you. I'd either fall asleep and crash out instantly, or lie there for hours in the afternoon with nothing happening.

If you can't stay awake, try holding your forearm up in the air. When you feel it fall, gently lift it back up again. This allowed me to prolong the hypnogogic state for much longer. I also noticed after about 3 days of doing this the hypnogigic images became extremely vivid and ethereal.

Now though what I've been doing lately is programming myself to remain still after waking up from a dream. I wake up about 6 times in the night, and instantly attempt to AP every time. It's easier for me at this time because my body is extremely relaxed. If I haven't succeeded within 2 minutes I usually know I've missed my opportunity and wait for the next time. I started trying this method again after reading Monroe's book where he says it's best to reach condition D immediately after waking up from a nap or night's sleep and not moving physically at all.


M4RT1N

Quote from: seán7781 on June 01, 2014, 15:03:54

I used to have the exact same problems as you. I'd either fall asleep and crash out instantly, or lie there for hours in the afternoon with nothing happening.

If you can't stay awake, try holding your forearm up in the air. When you feel it fall, gently lift it back up again. This allowed me to prolong the hypnogogic state for much longer. I also noticed after about 3 days of doing this the hypnogigic images became extremely vivid and ethereal.

Now though what I've been doing lately is programming myself to remain still after waking up from a dream. I wake up about 6 times in the night, and instantly attempt to AP every time. It's easier for me at this time because my body is extremely relaxed. If I haven't succeeded within 2 minutes I usually know I've missed my opportunity and wait for the next time. I started trying this method again after reading Monroe's book where he says it's best to reach condition D immediately after waking up from a nap or night's sleep and not moving physically at all.



How long do you hold the arm up? A few times when I've done this I noticed my arm falling and I stopped it but I didn't enter any hypnogogic state, and usually I just can't fall asleep with it up so I put it down.

Did you wake up 6 times a night before you programmed yourself or is the reason you wake up 6 times a night because you programmed yourself to? How do you program yourself, just affirmations?

dust8879

I hold the arm up for about 10 -15 minutes. It depends on if it's one of those nights where I fall asleep rapidly or can't get to sleep because I have something on my mind. I balance it an angle so that when it does actually fall down. When it hits something, it alerts me to lift it back up. After a while it become extremely hard to lift it. What happens is that when the arm falls, it allows to me get deeper into the hypnogogic state, and then when my arm hits something I'm able to rouse myself again and bring myself back so that I don't crash out. Mantras and observing never work for me, even after 8 hours sleep. Only something physical stops me from falling asleep.

I've only just started with this method and I can only use it if I get to bed an hour early, which isn't often. It can be hard to fall asleep with the forearm in the air if you're laying on your back. What I did was change it to laying on my right side, which is my natural sleeping position. Then I start to fall asleep.



dust8879

Throughout the night, I wake up naturally 5-6 times. The first time that I wake up (around 12:45/1AM) it is quite hard to remember not to move. But it gets easier as the night goes on. Fall asleep with the intention not to move. I say to myself, "I remain still when I wake up". I can't fall asleep consciously but waking up consciously has brought me a lot closer to projecting. I'm still developing the habit.


If you're someone who wakes up a lot naturally then this method could help. You might exit a dream really smoothly and feel tingling like I did last night. Instantly try to project. When I try to project from a waking state it's very hard to maintain concentration. But if I try it immediately after waking up my mind is that bit more focused, and my body is almost in the perfect state already. I just then try to imagine myself skateboarding, swimming or flying. On the 3rd night this method worked and gave me a conscious non physical experience. I've come close almost every night since I started this method. The only challenge is that you have to remember what to do straight away. Even if you do end up moving slightly try it anyway.

dust8879

Since you lose focus easily, have you ever tried Tattwa cards? i'm currently using some that I just made. JHH Brennan and Ophiel have some good chapters on it. The cards might help, because at first the image is in your mind, then you enlarge the image and eventually step through it.

M4RT1N

Mantras keep me awake, I used to go to bed at about midnight and then I would still be saying them at 5am. No hypnogogic state or anything..

What are Tattwa cards?

dust8879

You sound like someone who could find it hard to fall asleep after a certain time, a lot like me. I never try any wake-back-to-bed methods because I get really grumpy when my sleep is interrupted.

Tattwa cards are square cards with coloured shapes on them. You put the cards under a lamp, and after staring at it you see a coloured rim around the card which starts to glow. Then you look at a white background/piece of paper, and you'll see the coloured shape, such as a red triangle. Then you close your eyes and you see the image in your mind. With some practice you can enlarge the shape in your mind and use it as a doorway to the astral plane. Because you had some trouble concentrating, I thought maybe these cards could help.

M4RT1N

Quote from: seán7781 on June 02, 2014, 08:47:34
You sound like someone who could find it hard to fall asleep after a certain time, a lot like me. I never try any wake-back-to-bed methods because I get really grumpy when my sleep is interrupted.

Tattwa cards are square cards with coloured shapes on them. You put the cards under a lamp, and after staring at it you see a coloured rim around the card which starts to glow. Then you look at a white background/piece of paper, and you'll see the coloured shape, such as a red triangle. Then you close your eyes and you see the image in your mind. With some practice you can enlarge the shape in your mind and use it as a doorway to the astral plane. Because you had some trouble concentrating, I thought maybe these cards could help.

Sound good, but I don't really have a lamp I could use for that. I'll probably just use the arm falling method and a mantra at the same time while falling asleep. And visualizing anything during day.