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Negs over water

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Robert Bruce

G'day!

Good leading questions....

This is a bit theoretical, but I can't help wondering about some aspects of the theory that negs can't cross water...

1. Does the barrier have to be very close, or can the water be several levels down? ie. if I were on the 3rd floor of a building, would the water mains below street level protect me?

This is uncertain, but so far my field experiments (the only way to travel) show that any free roaming (within the real time zone) neg wanting to get at you must first find a way to get across the water mains below you.  However, keep in mind that while some negs become trapped behind running water pipes (earthbound spirits and etc that do not have the knowledge to overcome these barriers), higher order
negs usually only manifest 'near' their target.  They move from lower astral realms directly to the target, in much the same way as instant OBE travel works. This works 'around' the running water problem.

Negs can also travel over running water by hitchhiking with susceptible humans, piggy backing over it and using their temporary hosts as shields.

Strongers types of neg, like demons, can cross running water, but tests show they will not do this lightly. It drains them of energy and could be said to burn them.

All this leads me to think that any neg manifesting close enough to the physical dimension to affect humans becomes bound to the surface of the earth, and takes on 2 dimensional properties.

2. Does the general theory mean that no neg can travel between countries that are separated by water? ie. New Zealand to Australia (God forbid!)

In post modern times, yes, this would have formed a formidible barrier to lower order neg spirits.  This is much like how earthbound spirits become bound to particular houses and castles.

3. Why couldn't a neg travel "over" or "under" a barrier?

This is not possible for negs. For all we know about spirits, the very idea of spirits, one would think that they could float around wherever they like. But my work shows that they have serious limitations, and that these limitations can be used against them. Btw, I have asked many channelled spirits about this, via their respective mediums, and totally dumbfounded them. But my experiments have proven running water to be a very important factor indeed.

4. Do other "good" or even "amoral" entities suffer the same weakness? ie. elementals, nature spirits, etc.

Sorry, I have no information on this. All my experiments have been with attacking neg entities. But this is a very good point and one I definitely plan to investigate further.  This may be why, as is well known, metaphysical practices work much better when done out in the country away from cities...away from water mains. This may be a closely guarded secret, who knows, that 'any' spirit manifesting in real time is affected by running water.

Take care, Robert.


Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Murphy

What about the various noxious veins that are supposed to be under the earth in various spots, and which cause traffic accidents, etc.?

Is there any connection between those, and between the idea of running water harming negs?

I wonder if negs would be harmed by noxious veins.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Murphy

Fastwalker, you've got a point.

I read this non-fiction paperback about some guys who were fooling around with a Ouija board on Fire Island (Long Island).

The author wrote that while he wasn't as susceptible as his "wimpy" friend to becoming possessed, nevertheless, there were entities which tried to harm him. He described how he was driving along the East River (I believe) when some force at the East River tried to get the car to swerve; also once when he was in the water, he felt himself being pulled under by a powerful entity.

I also wonder about the idea of noxious veins that supposedly are responsible for many traffic accidents & how this ties into the overall picture.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Violet

Dear Fastwalker,

My cousin has done a great deal of study on Ginns.  I do not know if you have ever read the Koran but there is one breif section on them there.  The Muslims really believe in both good and evil Ginns.  My cousin visited a Master of the Ginns because she believed she had a curse placed upon her. She was in Pakistan at the time. Not only did the Master of the Ginns tell her who placed the curse on her, how they were executing the curse but he also gave her her own personal Ginn to protect her. By the way the curse was executed by placing negative energy in the sugar crystals that were being put in her tea which contains water! Hard to believe. But her serious health problem suddenly went away and interestingly enough was reflected back on the person who placed it upon her.  Anyways to the point....this Master of the Ginns said that Ginns could not easily travel over water.  Hmmm!  So it seems to be a common belief.

I wonder though if it is the water itself or the positive energy that running water creates.  I always find that rapids, water falls etc. provide a real lift.  The faster the water moves the more it energizes.  
Perhaps the speed of the water and degree of water movement (waves) is a factor?  Perhaps with the daming of rivers reducing them to slow moving sludge ponds is not so good on the non-physical as well as on the physical level.  Hard to say.

Light and Love to the One and All,
Violet




Pete

I was thinking the same thing Violet. The movement of water: shower, river, ocean, whatever, gives off negative ions, which are very beneficial to our health (positive ions are less healthy, at least a surplus of them). That's one reason why a shower feels refreshing or a walk on a sunny beach with the surf pounding (giving off negative ions - not to mention the fact that white sand beaches are made up partially of small crystal fragments). A lot of air cleaners have negative ion generators in them, especially commercial ones, such as in bars where there smoke gets real thick. I use one at home and it is marvelous. Anyway, perhaps negs are repelled by the negative ions all moving water gives off/produces? Perhaps an experiment could be done with running an air cleaner producing negative ions in the vicinity of negs. (I can't do the experiment. As far as I can tell there are no negs around me).
Pete


Robert Bruce

G'day folks!

All good points, and points I have pondered for a long time.

The quality of underground streams varies, as does the energy they generate.  I think dowsing can be used to tell these apart.  

This may also apply to geopathic stress points and other such underground forces.

I do not know anywhere near enough to tell how each type will affect negs. My book would have been delayed several years had I attempted to gather such information.  And keep in mind that I would have to run field tests, which means I would need active neg attacks to test them with, making everything doubly difficult.

Still water, and slow moving water, does not seem to have a great effect on negs.  Keep in mind that such places are likely to host a great many nature spirits and elementals (water spirits and etc). And these types of spirits can sometimes be nasty.

My experiments have by large been with negs in populated areas. The majority of such negs have great problems crossing running water.

The volume and speed of running water are certainly important factors. This is why, if crossing a garden hose fails, crossing a large water main will usually do the trick and break the neg attack.

Neg attacks are usually broken instantly by crossing running water.

However, some types of attacks, possibly involving 'attached' negs, take more. In this case, I advise standing over running water for several minutes (coil a garden hose and stand among coils), and that white light be imagined as flowing into the head, and black fluid leaking from the feet.  This is 'very' effective against strong attacks, especially possession attacks and heavy influence attacks. I have proven this beyond doubt in many field situations, involving myself and others I have been trying to help.

The running water countermeasures are in their infancy. These work in most cases, even though we do not fully understand why.

The ion generation of running water may indeed be a significant factor.

There are historical links to running water countermeasures.

Folklore says that witches and demons and etc cannot cross running water.

Druid law, thousands of years old, shows some knowledge of running water and its effect on negs.  For example, it was law that a doctor's house 'must' be build over a stream of clean running water. They used a kind of bridge to do this.

My book, PPSD, gives many firsthand examples, and my thoughts on running water countermeasures and how they work.  But as said, I do not know the whole story.  I do, however, know enough to use this and encourage others to use this countermeasure.  Its extremely effective against the vast majority of negs one is likely to encounter in populated areas, like towns and etc.

Take care, Robert.



Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Murphy

Pete, I have found Dead Sea black mud to feel more healing to my muscles than any mineral baths.

And you better believe, that mud was not moving let alone water!

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Murphy

quote:
The volume and speed of running water are certainly important factors. This is why, if crossing a garden hose fails, crossing a large water main will usually do the trick and break the neg attack.


A couple of years ago, I was in a boat crossing under Niagara Falls, with the water really spraying me. Everyone was given these weird blue plastic hooded protective "rain-gear"

But yet my jinxacle-patterned life continues to this day.

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Winged_Wolf

Hmmm....here's a theory to toss out on this.  I've never personally noticed any problem with spirits crossing water, but I'll take your word for it.

Perhaps some weak entities have problems with water because of the ionization effect.  This is the same reason burning sage may work, or salt water asperging.

Conversely, some entities will be able to make use of the energy effects created by water, and use it as a power source.

I would think that entities affected by running water would also have trouble with live electrical wires and functioning appliances.  There's an enormous amount of electrostatic interference in a city.  I can't think of any reason why an entity's personality or motives would have any effect on this (ie, "good" or "bad").  I've always had a problem with the whole "positive" and "negative", thing though--IMO, as above, so below--and vice versa.  They're out to survive, just as material living things are, and that can be good, bad, and everything in between.  Whether something is good or bad just depends on our opinion of it--if it's attacking us or hindering us, we call it bad.  Cows would probably think humans were demonic, if they had that capability.
Most of the entities I've encountered are neutral in this respect--meaning that, even if they do harm, they don't do so out of malice, but out of need to survive.
Which is not to say we shouldn't take them out when we encounter them.


--Winged Wolf
--Winged Wolf
http://www.lulu.com/wingedwolfpsion
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

Murphy

Other questions (besides fastwalkers' question about jacuzzi's) are these:

What about rain? thunderstorms? etc.

What about storms at sea which have caused shipwrecks?

What about noxious veins underground at spots where many car accidents were known to have occurred?

http://jelleym.tripod.com/badluck/badluck.html">Bad Luck Murphy

Robert Bruce

G'day Folks!

Winged Wolf makes some good points.  Yes, the vast majority of entities that interact with humans are neither good nor bad, but neutral and just trying to survive.  And yes, cows could consider us demonic, re we milk them all their lives and then eat them. Many entities do the same, milking energy all a person's life, then feasting on their decaying energies after they die.

A few people have mentioned being exposed to running water, storms and etc, and still having bad luck and entity problems. Keep firmly in mind that this kind of running water exposure will not remove firmly 'attached' entities, or those who have gained temporary 'hitchhiking' or 'overshadowing' status.

Some entities become stuck on islands and in houses, because they have not worked out the running water factor and how to overcome it.

Invoking spirits, say with a Ouija board (note that this means 'yes yes', re Oui is French for yes and Ja is German for yes) will also not be greatly affected if done on an island.  This is because most invoked entities come from dimensionally further afield and manifest closer to the physical universe using the energy provided by the people doing the invoking. Note that this type of uncontrolled invocation is very dangerous, unless one is familiar with magickal practices of binding entities and protecting ones self, etc.  

When an entity is capable of attacking a person, they manifest fairly close to real time, to the physical dimension.  In this state, they take on 2 dimensional properties (like a shadow) and are generally bound to the surface of the earth.  This is when they are at their most dangerous, as they can then affect humans and etc.  An unattached entity in this state has great difficulty crossing running water.  Field tests have shown that stronger entities, like demons, can cross running water if pushed, but they will not do this lightly as it can be said to burn them and drain them of energy.

But even the lowliest of demons are very strong, having a stronger level of consciousness than any human, albeit darkly so.  Going mind to mind with any demon is thus a no win situation.  But as the vast majority of common troublesome negs are lesser beings than demons, and thus have even more difficulty crossing running water, the running water method is effective defense in the majority of cases and will break attacks by unattached negs instantly.

Stronger negs, even low demons, can also be drained of energy and forced to de-manifest and break off attack by prolonged exposure to a significant quantity of running water. This will not solve the root of such a problem, but it does give 'something' to fight back with, and provides temporary 'release' during which strength can be gained and help sought, etc.

Take care, Robert.



Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Winged_Wolf

One of the problems I've had over time is that different people may use different names for the same entity--or worse, the same names for different entities.  I have an interest in classifying these things (I've even got a website up on it, but it's in pieces due to loss of graphics when Crosswinds crashed during the wtc attack...it's at http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/wingedwolf/Parazoology/index.html if anyone's curious).

So, I've had the following entities called "demons"--
Small critters that attach themselves to a person and influence their mood in a negative way.
"Black shadows"--human-sized entities which appear as black auras, sometimes with red eyes.
Just about anything invoked and bound in a sorcerous ritual that has a less than conscientious personality.

So, what is a demon?  The ones I've encountered which were called demons seem to be made of life/faith energy mix....but so are angels and fae spirits.  The personality seems the only real difference there.  Insofar as that goes, they come in all shapes and sizes, and all power levels from wimpy to "pray for a nuclear strike".

Anyone have any insights or suggestions on this?  I don't think anyone has ever taken on the task of classifying spirit entities and gotten anywhere useful with it.


--Winged Wolf
--Winged Wolf
http://www.lulu.com/wingedwolfpsion
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

Robert Bruce

G'day WW!

Parazoology -- I love the new term.

You should think of registering the www.parazoology.com doman:)

There are quite literally millions of texts on demonology and witchcraft.  The Lemegeton is available online somewhere, I think, in pdf format.  There are many compendiums, like goetica (Goetica is part of the 5 book Lemegeton set), but I think a modern one would be great. But to be useful, the person who puts it together should seek out information from all areas.

The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate. I generally use the simple term of neg in my new book, to help avoid this confusion, although I do deal with demons and incubus and some more well known neg types more specifically.

The lowest form of demon is the Incubus demon (incubus and succubus are one and the same), which feeds on sexual energy and perverts and corrupts sexually, etc.  But these are not weak entities by any means.  

A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon.  It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of consciousness energy as do angels, albeit darkly so.  I have experienced mind to mind contact with demons many times, and know many high level magickal practitioners who have also had the misfortune to do this, so this comes from personal experience and experimentation and not just theory.

The above is why such high levels of development, training and good magickal techniques, are necessary to deal with demons

Demons, basically, possess, hinder and torment, and inflict victims with spiritual pollution and physical disease.


Take care, Robert.




Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Two Bears

=
The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate.
=

Hello Robert; my brother.

I could NOT agree more. Hence my dislike of using labels. One of the labels I dispise is "evil". About the stongest label I use is "negative".

=
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon.  It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=

I will have to disagree here.

Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

Robert Bruce

G'day!

Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?  

True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human.  Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds.  They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.

However, it is possible to survive such an onslaught for a short time, say during a possession attack, but only because it usually takes a little time for a demon to penetrate a strong human mind.  But once this is done then its a no win situation, without some form of outside intervention.  An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.  

The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes.  But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct confrontation, re a vastly superior level of consciousness is aiding and protecting the human mind. This may be a trifle pedantic, but I think its good to be clear on these matters.



Take care, Robert.


             =============

A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=

I will have to disagree here.

Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.

Two Bears





Edited by - Robert Bruce on 04 March 2002  07:29:31
Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Two Bears

Hello Robert; my brother.

=
Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?  
=

I say it because I have done it myself. You probably don't know willpower till you have seen mine. I will only say that I have developed the willpower to stand in the "hug a tree" pose for 65 minutes when 95% of the people can't hold that pose for more than 3 minutes.


=
True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human.  Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds.  They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.
=

This statement; I agree with completely.

=
of outside intervention.  An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.  
=

Correct.

=
The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes.  But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct
=

Robert: in some soul retrievals I have done; on a few occasions; I have had to go without the aid of my totem animal; and I was able to walk away. If there was anyone protecting me; I was completely unaware of them.


Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

Robert Bruce

G'day!

Sorry, but I think we must agree to differ on this matter.

No matter what the level of a person's mental training and willpower, I stand by my previous statements that no unaided human mind can withstand a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon.  

The pressure of such an onslaught is immense.  A trained mind with an iron will may withstand such an assault for a couple of minutes before their mind is taken over, but the pressure is just too strong and unyielding.  This is why magicians that invoke demons (using Goetic magick or similar) go to such great lengths to bind a demon and protect themselves against it before it is allowed to manifest.

To answer the obvious question, as to why anyone would want to invoke a demon.  Well, I do not practice goetic magick, but am familiar with its principles.  Believe it or not, demons can be very useful. If not, there would be no point in invoking them.  For example, often the simplest way to remove a demon that is attacking a person, is to  order a stronger demon to attack and remove the lesser, whilst doing no harm to the victim.  Angels are also often used to fight demons, but angels can be a little more fickle and difficult to work with.


Take care, Robert.



Edited by - Robert Bruce on 06 March 2002  11:12:59
Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Robert Bruce

G'day!

I have not had the opportunity to test breaking neg attacks with anything but clean running water so far.  Keep in mind that field tests must be fairly spontaneous, taking advantage of real life neg attacks when they happen.  Strong neg attacks, even demonic attacks, can be 'arranged', if you know a good occultist.  We have done this type of experiment, but this is very dangerous and sometimes life threatening, so I do not advise it for non-expert occultists.  But, as for experimenting with other fluids, there is definitely room for further experimentation.

So far I've had success with:

1. Crossing a garden hose.
2. Crossing underground domestic plumbing pipes.
3. Crossing or standing over water mains.
4. Crossing or standing over underground streams.
5. Crossing rivers and streams of running water.

*Note that the volume and velocity of water is important. If a garden hose fails to bring relief, seek out a water main or etc. This can be accomplished by driving or walking around town, as many water mains will thus be crossed.

*Domestic showers and baths help, but do not seem quite as effective as the above methods, unless visualization is used, as per the below.

Note that I also often use an additional visualization technique to enhance the above methods, to remove or weaken attached entities. For example, place many coils of garden hose on the ground, clockwise, water gushing.  Stand with feet among coils and say a prayer for protection.  Then, visualize a large amount of brilliant white light entering your head and slowly filling you, and that this is forcing black fluid out of your feet, and this soaks away into the ground, or down the drain. Continue this for five minutes or longer.

The above can also be done in the shower.  This is a very effective method of breaking a strong attack that crossing running water does not remove. This is also a good test, showing that you are dealing with an attached or overshadowing neg, re these are more difficult to dislodge.  

The water plus visualization method is an excellent long term treatment method. It steadily drains negative energy and weakens firmly attached negs.  I have had excellent results with this method, but best results usually come after about 30 days.

The other advantage of this method is that it is fairly innocuous, and will thus not attract unwanted attention from other people that may not understand.

Very often, even a very strong neg will be so drained by this long term method that it will just leave and go seeking greener pastures.

Take care, Robert.


Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

darrenbeck


Shadow Walker

Below I have put in a link to some info about the Lemegeton, if someone should be interested in them.

http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm

http://www.grimoires.com/


Robert Bruce

G'day!

I do not think that negs get washed away by the movement of running water, but this may apply in some cases. You see, the problem is that this does not account for underground water, nor running water that is sealed in pipes or hoses. Negs 'should' be able to move over these things easily, but this is definitely not the case.

There are very few references indicating the potential of running water as an anti neg countermeasure.  Dione Fortune mentions this in her book, 'Psychic Self-Defense', but does not elaborate.  I forget where I read it (Either Dione Fortune, Levi, or Castenada), but I remember reading somewhere that humans have energy roots that extend down into the energy field that covers the surface of the earth.  And that when we move, we make furrows in this energy field.  Negs are said to attack us through these roots.  It was suggested that when running water is crossed, this 'furrow' is filled in and a person is thus made invisible to negs, who do not have eyes like we do.  Keep in mind that negs usually manifest in the physical universe in 2D form, so this likely has some truth in it.

It is well known in folklore and etc that witches, werewolves, demons and ghosts, etc, cannot cross running water, but no reasons are given.  There is probably a lot more anti neg wisdom hidden away in folklore and etc.

You might think this riddle could be solved by asking channelled spirits, but you will find they either do not know or will not admit to running water / neg limitations. I've done this many times.  You  normally end up with pages of channelled stuff on how negs are not really bad or evil, and no straight answers are given.

My work on this has shown that some spirits, especially the more negative variety, are more affected by the physical universe than is currently suspected.  How far this goes I am not sure, but it is known that scent, light and sound affect spirits, and probably EM fields and etc as well. There is lots of room for research and experimentation.

As for discovering the whole truth of this matter, well, I think I'll have to dig much deeper for this. And the only way to dig is through more and more personal exploration and experimentation, plus lots of deep thinking to let the inspiration flow. Rest assured that I will continue my research and experimentation on this matter for the rest of my life, and that my work will carry on regardless. My biggest holdup is simply a lack of suitable facilities and funds with which to continue my work.  I have gone about as far as I can with what I have, so now really have to wait until I can afford to set up some proper facilities to continue my work.


Take care, Robert.



Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

darrenbeck


Bhikku

I hate to make you take a step backwards in this conversation Robert, but will something as simple as a table-top fountian provide some sort of protection from negs? Say if it were next to your bed? Also, how is it that negative ions hinder negative beings? I would think the opposite to be true. i.e. positive to deter negative. Thanks.

"Look within, thou art the Budda"

Robert Bruce

G'day!

Well, here's hoping that book sales are huge.  I have dreamed of starting my own research institute for over 15 years, and it is really really really nice seeing it move from the realms of the improbable to the possible, and even to the probable.

Aso for table top fountains, yes, these can help.  You can buy these, feng shui fountains and japanese water sculptures qute cheaply.

As for the negative ion thingy, well, the physics of this does not apply to negative entities in the way the word 'negative' intimates.

I do not know if negative ions affect negative entities adversely. This is something that needs researching under controlled conditions.

What I plan to do, when I am able, is to set up a small test house and experiment with different countermeasures, and the ways these are applied, during actual psychic attacks. It will then be a matter of observing and seeing what affects negs the most, and fine tuning things, etc.


Take care, Robert.



Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Winged_Wolf

As for going mind to mind with a demon:
Why on earth would you let it get near your mind anyhow?  Use your energy to keep the critter OUT of your internal workings.
Yes, a being like that is powerful--but there are people who are moreso.  And cleverness can also make up for lower power levels.  Band together, and you can come up with more power than any demon--just add appropriately trained people until you exceed it. :)
For best results, shred the thing into pieces too small to hold the pattern, and eradicate it forever.


--Winged Wolf
--Winged Wolf
http://www.lulu.com/wingedwolfpsion
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."