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Robert Bruce's Possession

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Andromache

I had posted this in another thread and I cannot remember which. I wanted to bring attention to it for a reason. Why isn't Robert's possession mentioned or spoken about more often here, especially given the dramatic life and death circumstances he endured not only with himself but his infant son at the time? Why aren't more people on this site aware of what a powerful neg can really do and inflict (why is this always relegated to the mind)?

Practical Psychic Self Defense on pages 135-142.

Here's an excerpt on page 136. Robert was doing an exorcism on a child and frustrated that he was unable to defeat it, he offered himself to the neg in replacement of the child thinking he'd get rid of it later. The neg took his offer, and Robert discovered he was in over his head. This is what happened next:

"...Soon, I began losing control of my body, one part at a time. The first episode of this was while reading; my arm moved on its own, picked up a book, and tossed it on the floor. This shocked me, but I still felt okay. I did not sense anything evil or threatenting in or around me. Incidents of brief loss of control increased over the next two weeks. It was not long before I knew I was in deep trouble.

The episodes of loss of control culminated in an incident in which I lost control completely. I was on a roof-top car park, lifting my baby son from my car. As if a switch had been thrown, I suddenly lost control of my body. Powerless, I was marched like a puppet carrying my son to the edge, even while I was fighting my own muscles every step of the way. I suspected the Neg in me was going to make me throw my son off the roof and then have me jump.

The strength of the mental pressure I felt was unbelievable. I did not hear voices or experience insane thoughts. This was not a compulsion. I was sane and rational. I just had no control of my body, as if suddenly struck with physical paralysis and someone else was now running my body. Thankfully, with a supreme act of will and some much-needed luck, I broke free of the puppet-like state at the last possible moment. But I no longer trusted myself after this event.

A couple of days later, I woke up (I seemed to have been sleepwalking) and found myself in the nursery with a raised ax. I got rid of the ax. I found myself back there the next night with a carving knife. I tried everything I knew of to rid myself of this Neg, but whatever I did was not enough. I was faced with only two "logical" choices: I could turn myself into a mental hospital or commit suicide. Then, I came up with a third option: I could surrender to my higher self and let it lead me out of the darkness rapidly overtaking my life. I sensed this would be difficult and probably kill me in the process anyway, but I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I could always kill myself later."

The rest details his fight with the neg out in the Bush. Bruce left home for his family's safety and spoke candidly about he though he wouldn't be coming back alive.

Tyciol

Wow... umm... kay... *looks sternly at Brucey*

Logic

Wow. What happens to all the people who can't deal with possesion?
We are not truly lost, until we lose ourselves.

Andromache

Well that's my point exactly. Ever since I got here, all I hear from people when it comes to neg attack is that it is the product of your imagination, as if neg interaction were like a vidoe game you control. Does the above story sound like a video game?

People come here for help by exchanging ideas with other people undergoing the same thing. Maybe it doesn't get rid of the neg altogether, but at least they have a support system.

travelinbob

I just finished reading that book by RB. It has made me aware of the unseen forces but also has made understand how to deal with them. Although I am lucky in not having much neg problems at all. But I am now aware of the overtures they make and I have my defences up now.

Robert Bruce's experience is important in that it showed me the importance of minimizing the negs influence. I hope to be able to help some of the people around me who are at risk.

One risk in all this is that some people may assume that its an all or nothing deal. That all difficult situations are caused by negs. I believe that I have been in some situations in which negs were clearly behind events. Others I cannot see it being more than just life's circumstances.

I think Negs are real, but not all bad things can be attributed to them. Some times the bump in the night may just be the wood creaking, sort of speak.

McArthur

Quote from: LogicWow. What happens to all the people who can't deal with possesion?
Suicide, Prison or Insane Asylums.

Andromache

Exactly, it's time to start educating people on the truth.

daem0n

they don't want to know it
how can you possibly live knowing that you can lose control of your own body
that is why they choose ignorance and that vague feeling of safety
safety comes from knowledge, not ignorance
don't waste your time, because you would have to first prove them plethora of prerequesites
but be with them if they need it

let them dwell, it's their sincere choice
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

Tyciol

I live with knowing I lose control of my body. It's not on the full scale level of possession though, it usually occurs when I'm tired, overheated, overexerted, or am walking on a low-friction surface, especially when carrying something heavy. Oy... scariness, but we recover. I'm sure mental possessions are similar, perhaps more exerting on the victim of it.

I'm curious how Robert Bruce would rank himself in terms of power to other psychic entities out there. Whatever that creature was, mean or not, he's strong, and I'm interested in that strength.

Logic

Quote from: AndromacheExactly, it's time to start educating people on the truth.

What is the truth, isn't it different for everyone? Whats to say that an exorcism can't cure a deranged person, or that medication cant cure a possessed person?

There seems to be a LOT of possibility in this area..
We are not truly lost, until we lose ourselves.

Andromache

QuoteWhat is the truth, isn't it different for everyone? Whats to say that an exorcism can't cure a deranged person, or that medication cant cure a possessed person?

Truth is constrained by reality and the consequences of your actions. We all live on the same planet and our actions affect the world around us and others. We're not separate and disconnected from Life.We impact others and others impact us.

My exorcism failed, and many of the exorcists I talk to are shocked at how it is taking multiple exorcisms to get rid of a possessing neg. Even multiples are failing completely.

That's not to say there is no hope, just that we have to work harder to defeat them than we did in the past. And for the ones we can't defeat, we give understanding and compassion to the afflicted. REAL love defeats these things in the end.

Orchild

What exactly could you experience when being attacked by negs, or possesion or what ever. I would like a complete list of all the physical things that can be experienced, if possible?

Badwuv

Orchild,
I can't think of the complete (if there is one) list of symptoms that can point to demon possession off the top of my head, but some are
random blackouts
loss of physical control
extreme heat or coldness
weight loss
distinctive change in facial features

As you can see, alone, these could point to other diseases, but if several of these are present along with obvious negative mental effects, it may be a possession. look online for a more complete list (but be sure to compare several to make sure that one isn't a fake)

I'd like to bring up the difference between possession and obsession (not in the "manic interest in one idea/subject" sense of the word)

Possession-the entity actually takes control of the victim's physical body
Obsession-the entity "obsesses" the victim with negative ideas and constantly is "in their head"

Anyone else heard of these two classifications?

Andromache

There is also what Robert describes as Virtual Puppetry, which is when the neg takes total control:

pages 154 – 155, on the topic of Virtual Puppetry, both his encounters with virtual puppets and his experience becoming a virtual puppet:

Virtual Puppetry

I have experienced this state several times myself, but only for a minute or two each time. I have questioned others with possession experience and found similar symptoms reported. In virtual puppetry, a Neg forces full mind/body dissociation and takes control over one's physical body. Logically, this is accomplished by Negs working through the autonomic nervous system (reflex system), using this as a back door to gain control over the physical body.

In principle, this mechanism is similar to how any set of complex actions is learned, such as learning to walk, do karate, play a musical instrument, or ride a bike. Through exhaustive, repetitive training, humans program themselves to carry out sequences of complex, delicately timed actions without having to think about them. Often these actions are so complex that training the autonomic nervous system is the only way they can be done; if one thought about how to do them, one would be able to do them.

That is why Negs habitually use psychological conditioning processes to gain control over humans. Advanced Negs know how to condition the human body and its autonomic nervous system in such a way as to gain full control. At the time I was possessed, while the Neg was conditioning me and learning how to use my body, some interesting observations came to light.

The occasional involuntary actions I experienced were fast, smooth and precise; they were not muscular twitches. For example, my hand and arm would suddenly reach out, pick up something then throw it; this was a fast, smooth, precise action. My controlled hand did not just lash out crudely and knock something over; rather, those movements had the signs of trained reflex actions.

Virtual puppetry is the stuff of which nightmares are made. Suddenly, your mind is forcibly dissociated from your physical body. Amidst feelings of whole body pressure, you float in a surreal dreamlike world. You feel arms and legs moving of their own accord, and it's much like an OBE or lucid dream, but you have zero control over the actions or words of your physical body. Your mind feels numb, weak, under relentless mental pressure. It's very quiet inside and the world outside seems at a distance. You are a powerless observer.

It's easy to think this is a dream and give in to the pressure. You sense your physical body, but as if from a distance. You know when it is walking, but it's like walking on huge fluffy pillows. If your body picks up something, you are aware of this happening but cannot feel what is in your hand. It's as if your thinking mind has been forced outside your body.

Tyciol

I've never been possessed, if RB's strong, why has he? Do the proficient attract danger through their power, or because they wade into it in the process of saving weaker people from it?

Nay

I think we need to remember that Robert is an exception to the rule.  He is very adept at going places that us normal folk will never go, thus never having such spectacular experiences.  

And frankly, I could do without all the creepy things he has come across.  So I'm totally fine with sitting on the side lines and just listening to his experiences.

Nay

Andromache

He got that creepy neg from that kid he was trying to protect. I don't think that kid was astral projecting.

This can happen to anyone. The best defense is knowledge.

SpectralDragon

Quote from: AndromacheHe got that creepy neg from that kid he was trying to protect. I don't think that kid was astral projecting.

This can happen to anyone. The best defense is knowledge.

Well, actually, sometimes this is utterly wrong.

In individuals with weak willpowers, it's better to let them believe that they can't get possesed. Such people would be ones that have had a rough time with life and thus have little will to live.

I would like to point out that while possession is most definitely true, it is quite rare. I would say 98% of the population need not worry about it, but for the rest there are some resourced and ways to get help.

In a possession case, the demon is usually influincing from the mental plane of existince. In each case, the demon is not literally inside your physical body, but has what (in my view) looks to be either a cord or pipe connected to the individual through the core of thier psyche. (the mind, at it's deepest and biggest level past the subconscious, has a huge connection to the mental plane.)

This "gate" is usually well protected by your own energies, but if a being knows you well enough to find the keys, it can get it.

Anonymous

QuoteIn individuals with weak willpowers, it's better to let them believe that they can't get possesed. Such people would be ones that have had a rough time with life and thus have little will to live.

Why do you say it's better for these people to not believe they can be possessed?  It won't change whether or not they become possessed--their belief has nothing to do with it.

I never believed in possession...or the devil.  In fact, when I read an abductee story where the guy became possessed, I said to myself "that could only happen to someone who is religious."  

And then I had a nightmare of a possession experience.  Belief_has_nothing_to_do_with_it.

Trying to draw you out, Dragon.   :)   I was looking forward to talking to you about my own experience via IM, but we haven't connected.  But it's good this webboard exists, because we can all share our experiences publicly, and thus with everyone who lurks too.

Naiad780

Kaili,

What was your experience like?  

As for telling people not to believe they can be possessed, it may be so that they don't worry about it and therefore don't go subconsciously looking for trouble.

Andromache

QuoteI would like to point out that while possession is most definitely true, it is quite rare. I would say 98% of the population need not worry about it, but for the rest there are some resourced and ways to get help.

Do you know for a fact that you are or are not that 2% that gets affected? Does anyone?

This CAN happen to anyone.

And Robert mentioned something in his book that negs attack him because of his work in fighting them. I've also heard strong spiritual types attract negs out of fear on the negs part. Lou Gentile has often mentioned that exorcists get attacked regularly by negs and are never the same.

That's why we need faith.

Tyciol

He's done stuff that we'll never do? What is this, a cult? I agree he does sound advanced to have come out with this material, and I respect that, but I don't like having to give deference like that. I don't want to sit on the sidelines all my life.

Besides, if he can get possessed, then even worse could happen to those less experienced, those weaker, so we should get stronger. Stronger than even the entity.

Badwuv

Sometimes, strength of willpower makes the biggest difference in fighting off a possession.  I havn't ever been possessed by anything nearly as strong as the one that took over Robert Bruce, but when I was attacked by such entities ( the most recent being last March), I found that the most important thing is holding your own.  Using energy cleansing, shielding etc. come after.

SpectralDragon

Kalli: when people get afraid, they have a tendancy to attract these things to them more easily.

Andromoche: It was an approximate number used as an example only ;) Yes, it is true that anyone can get possesed, however (and thankfully) they don't.

Tyciol

Hmm... it makes you wonder... with all the new age energy channeling meditation mumbo jumbo out these days, you have people using a lot of methods like shielding as opposed to the more traditional method of gritting your teeth and grunting your way through it by being tough, using willpower (or stubbornness).

My question is this... would the reliance on techniques like shielding, while replacing that function, reduce one's ability to tooth-grit, and thus make one more vulnerable to entity possession since they no longer possess that once necessary thing?

Hmmm I'm so creative I might even move this to its own topic...