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Author Topic: Tangible Entities?  (Read 30494 times)
Adrian
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« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2002, 17:46:08 »

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:
Originally posted by distant bell:
I have this problem- All wierd groups claim to have the truth,
be it Falun Gong, hare Krishan, The vittneses of Jehova, every
wierd New Age cult- And all of them "know someone who has seen it happen.."  

So should I belive every thing?



That is a matter for you to decide of course.

But in my opinion,  the best way is to remain open minded, respect the positions and views of others, however far out they may seem to you, and only consider true that which you know to be true from your own personal experience.


quote:

And I was not kidding when I said that a true enlightene person would behave unlike a saint- just look at uncle Al!  He is the only true "enlightened" person of history that I can think of!  And he behaved like the society was one big joke..

So there you have it!  I say that Crowley is the prophet of the new aion..
And you guys say that Sai Baba is the only avatar!



If as a Thelemite (presumably) you like to believe that of Crowley, then you are perfectly entitled to do so.

Don't expect me to spell Magic with a "k" on the end though http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

But as you are so keen on web sites and documentaries, you might like to take a look at this:

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/M/masters_darkness/crowley.html

I saw this program, and actual footage taken for the first time in his Thelemic monastery.   Most interesting from a historical point of view and an insight into this man who unquestionably left his mark one way or the other.

With best regards,

Adrian.




 
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Nita
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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2002, 02:02:36 »

Hello Adrian
   I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others.
   I don't lie about what I've seen and I don't try to impress others. I talk about my experiences and people are capable of their own judgements. I feel really sorry for people who are so incapable of a sense of sharing that they have to attack others.
   Nita


 
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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2002, 02:02:36 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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distant bell
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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2002, 04:41:02 »

Hi Adrian!

No I would never ask for you to either spell magick with a ck, or belive
in Crowley as the propeth.

I really donīt know if I belive in Crowley in the way of the kliche enlightened either, I donīt belive in this enlightened person thing. I think that Crowley was
a man with a great knowledge who left an important heritage- and if you just look at the heritage, he has left more then any other religion... Just look at christianity- might be a good ethich conduct- but informative ?? no!

So it is in that sense I see Crowley as a "prophet" or "enlightend", that he gained great occult knowledeg and passed it on.  That he was a real pervert seems to be a fact though.. but hey- that dosnīt influence his heritage!

I have never had much left for these crowd gathering types, like Li Hongzi, Sai baba, Jesus etc. etc. Usually the say where little of substance.

Nita-

"I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others."

I donīt think it has anything to do with fear- after al many people who choose not to belive in lets say werewolfs belive in other things such as wicked evil demons, whitch are not a too plesesnt thought either..

Bless ya al!


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --
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Adrian
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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2002, 16:24:26 »

Hi Nita!

quote:
Originally posted by Nita:
Hello Adrian
   I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others.
   I don't lie about what I've seen and I don't try to impress others. I talk about my experiences and people are capable of their own judgements. I feel really sorry for people who are so incapable of a sense of sharing that they have to attack others.
   Nita



I just want to say that I totally agree with you.

But it is also sad but true that while people are generally totally dismissive of the Occult/Paranormal/Spiritual experiences of others, those very same dismissive people accept the dogma's of their religions without question.

With best regards,

Adrian.



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Lostpawn
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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2002, 20:03:39 »

Personally, I am a bit hard pressed to believe in the existence of werewolfs though I definately leave the possibility open. However, I must agree with Felix that the main reason why people here have trouble believing in werewolfs is not because of fear but because it is much more difficult to believe in a actual physical "moviebeast" than in demons in other dimensions. I believe that negs and demons probably exists, and all that possession stuff etc. is true.  So it can't be fear that makes it more difficult to believe in werewolfs - rather, the problems that arises with it. How can a beast eat several humans? Why is sightings not more often reported? How does the actual process of shapeshifting work? etc.

So, if I claim that I've seen in a vision that a big monster like Godzilla will come and destroy Sweden in the beginning of 2003, no one would believe me. But certainly not of fear, but for the fact that the chances of it happen is slim.. indeed.

Anyway. The existens of werewolfs might very well be true - I don't think Nita lied about her experience. But there is still no need to fear them - chances are greater, i believe, that one would die in a carcrash than by a werewolf. Well, when one is standing face to face with such a beast, then I guess it's time to start fearing them. Smiley

Regards,
Daniel

 
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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2002, 20:03:39 »



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Lostpawn
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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2002, 20:07:54 »

Nita!

If you have the time, can you write down your experience with the werewolf a bit more comprehensive so Robert can put it up on the astral dynamics page. I bet it would be a great read!

Regards,
Daniel

 
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Adrian
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« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2002, 20:29:09 »

Greetings Lostpawn!

quote:
Originally posted by Lostpawn:
Personally, I am a bit hard pressed to believe in the existence of werewolfs though I definately leave the possibility open. However, I must agree with Felix that the main reason why people here have trouble believing in werewolfs is not because of fear but because it is much more difficult to believe in a actual physical "moviebeast" than in demons in other dimensions. often reported? How does the actual process of shapeshifting work? etc.



I believe that is the problem. When people talk of demons, werewolves, vampires and so on, they immediately think of Hollywood and the Transylvannian classics http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_evil.gif" border=0>

The fact is that these entities may well have legendary origins, but like so many things over the centuries, have become distorted much like that game of chinese whispers. They become glorified and enhanced to make a great story. Here in the Isle of Man, legends like that abound, and many are based upon real life happenings, which are simply not explainable in any conventional way.

Also in the Isle of Man, there are many, many old Manx cottages - some derelict now, and some still being lived in, and the vast majority of them have Elder trees growing in the garden or by the doors for protection. Even the derelict cottages still have their elder trees growing around.

I am sure that many of these entities, including the nice ones like Dragon's Unicorns and the Fae Folk, originate by portals opening up into the physical world from the Astral, allowing Astral wildlife to temporarily manifest here. Of course, people with psychic abilities and Astral sight can see some of these these entities anyway. But I am sure that these Astral portals do indeed open up from time to time, and Astral life can then manifest in the physical - this seems to happen in particular around a full moon by all accounts.

I do not believe that to be the case with werewolves. My best guess there is that werewolves are black magicians shapeshifting to the classical figure of a werewolf to carry out whatever dark deeds that have in mind.

Another name for this ability or process is Lycanthropy. Of course shape shifters also shift it other animalistic forms, hence werebears, weretigers, weredogs and so on.

I do not believe the process is as portrayed in the film "An American Werewolf in London", which is most amusing - has anyone seen it?

I am certain there is an explantion for everything, and nothing should be dismissed.

With best regards,

Adrian.




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Adrian
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« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2002, 09:06:04 »

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:
Originally posted by distant bell:
I
I only know what I saw in the documentary about Sai Baba-
Thatīs all.

And I was not kidding when I said that a true enlightene person would behave unlike a saint- just look at uncle Al!  He is the only true "enlightened" person of history that I can think of!  And he behaved like the society was one big joke..

So there you have it!  I say that Crowley is the prophet of the new aion..
And you guys say that Sai Baba is the only avatar!

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --



For your interest, I just came across this article on Crowley - no comment is necessary, except to say that while you have every right to follow Crowley, and everyone I am sure respects that, you might like to re-consider doubting the word of Robert Bruce when he tells us of his accounters with Sai Baba:

http://www.occultopedia.com/c/crowley.htm

Incidentally - http://www.Occultopedia.com is an excellent site!

With best regards,

Adrian.




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Fenris
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« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2002, 15:48:56 »

Hello all,

I have been having dificulty posting for a while and I wanted to add this earlier.

In the literature I have read about p-shifting I have noticed frequent reference to 'Grey' spirits. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Also I have a really old fashion black magick ritual to become a werewolf, It is has some aspects which I consider to be well thought out ritual (although I do not practice 'black magick') and a lot of eye of newt, tounge of toad type dribble too. Im sure there would be more credible rituals out there if you were motivated to find them. But if I could please get some feedback as to wether or not it would be appropreate to post I may be able to satisfy some curiosities out there, and create a little laughter perhaps http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>.

Veni Vidi Vici
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Adrian
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« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2002, 17:15:08 »


Greetings Fenris!

quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
Hello all,

I have been having dificulty posting for a while and I wanted to add this earlier.

In the literature I have read about p-shifting I have noticed frequent reference to 'Grey' spirits. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Also I have a really old fashion black magick ritual to become a werewolf, It is has some aspects which I consider to be well thought out ritual (although I do not practice 'black magick') and a lot of eye of newt, tounge of toad type dribble too. Im sure there would be more credible rituals out there if you were motivated to find them. But if I could please get some feedback as to wether or not it would be appropreate to post I may be able to satisfy some curiosities out there, and create a little laughter perhaps http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>.

Veni Vidi Vici




Go right ahead - I am sure people will decide for themselves anyway.

And after these $1M dollar OBE proof posts, not much could get more off the wall http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Maybe you could start another topic though - this one has shifted a few times already!

With best regards,

Adrian.



 
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distant bell
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« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2002, 03:32:40 »

Hi Adrian!

Thanks for the Crolwey link! Itīs always a good laugh to se what people have written
about him!

From the link -

"He earned a meager living by publishing his writings. Much of his nonfiction is incoherent and jumbled, but continues to have an audience."

What can I say??  that is one way of seenig it - and I guess the people who stated this have never read on single page by Crowley.  Otherways the only explenation is that they are wery feeble minded. I on the other hand have read many pages by Crowley- and it is far from incoherent and jumbled.

These kind of statements speak for them selfes. Judge the tree by itīs fruits.

But I have to confess that Iīm not really a thelemite.. I just enjoy Crowleys
writings and find them interesting and informative. They are the most intelegent books I have ever read. Thatīs all- no more no less, and that is what I base my opinion on Crowley on; his writings, his heritage.. not his life-
It is almoust impossible to know anything about him, as he was hated even back in his days, and now the legends about him have grown even wilder.

I donīt even know if I should belive in the book of the law… after al, who am I to know
That Aiwass wasnīt just some up to no good spirit pulling Crowleys leg?
But I still do admire the book for some of its beauty and deep truths.

" you might like to re-consider doubting the word of Robert Bruce when he tells us of his accounters with Sai Baba"

I am wery sorry if I gave the impression that I doubted that Bruce had seen Sai Baba.. I just said that perhaps it was someone looking like Sai Baba.. just a a thought..  After all who knows?

I donīt understand why this subjective article should inlfluence my thoughts about the subjuct of Sai Baba?? Did I miss any important point of the article?

By the way Adrian,
I really value your comments, and you seem to be a sympatic person,
and it would be sad to disturbe the good mood of the forum with
discussion about trivial things like this...

I guess what Iīm trying to say is this, Iīm not trying to attac anybody..
and If I donīt belive everyting averybody sais, Itīs just because there
is deep roted sketicism in me.. perhaps to deep.. I dunno- but, and
this isīimportant- itīs never my intention to offend anybody.

Bless ya al!

Felix


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Adrian
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« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2002, 04:18:25 »

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:
Originally posted by distant bell:
By the way Adrian,
I really value your comments, and you seem to be a sympatic person,
and it would be sad to disturbe the good mood of the forum with
discussion about trivial things like this...




I think I have made my point!

You were very quick to doubt Robert in the matter of Sai Baba by saying:

quote:
If Bruce belives in both Sai Baba and Werewolfs... then I donīt know if
I can belive in everything the good man says anymore.


And later provided us with your link on the Sai Baba Expose.

Many could say the same about Crowley, who's word you obviously follow, based on what is said and written about him.

I don't have a view on Sai Baba or Crowley, but you cannot judge people exclusively from the written word. You have to know the truth to believe it.

With best regards,

Adrian.








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distant bell
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« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2002, 07:56:51 »

Iīm not a follower of Crowley!
Iīm not a follower of anybody!.. I go my own way.
I just said that I enjoy Creowleys books- thats all.
I Enjoy Dion Fortunes, and Robert Bruces books to!
This dosnīt make me a follower of any of them.

And well, there are things that all of these three eminent authors say
that I just cannot belive in, in fact there are MANY things Crowley sais  that I doubt.

Itīs not healthy in my opinion to belive in EVERYTHING someone say just because of whatever reson..  therīs a word for it - fundamentalism..

Itīs human to fail- and all people fail sometimes- all people can be wrong-
including me, Crowley, you and Robert Bruce.

"Error humanum est!" (SPELLING?)

Felix

!

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« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2002, 06:44:57 »

After surfing the net on SAI BABA- I found out that there actaully seem to be more then one SAI BABA- The guy I was thinking about is a bit younger with big curly loong hair, always dressed in a bright coloured robe, who gathers big crowds of westerners in india..
Now I found another site www.saibaba.org--
And to my surprise there was another man, an old indian with short white
beard- not the same on I was talking about.

I guess we might actually have been talking about different Sai Babas..
It has come to my mind that Sai Baba actaully might be a title- not a name
as I suposed.

Pleas Adrain- check up www.saibaba.org, and tell me if this is the Sai Baba you and Robert Bruce talk about- Because in that case itīs not the same guy as I was thinking about..

The Sai baba I have been talking about is this one  www.saibabaexpose.com

Bless ya!

Felix

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« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2002, 10:04:04 »

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:
Originally posted by distant bell:

Pleas Adrain- check up www.saibaba.org, and tell me if this is the Sai Baba you and Robert Bruce talk about- Because in that case itīs not the same guy as I was thinking about..

The Sai baba I have been talking about is this one  www.saibabaexpose.com




Well first of all - I do not speak for Robert Bruce, and as far as Sai Baba is concerned I only know of that which Robert has written about in his publications.

I also know almost nothing about any of the Sai Baba's, and have no particular inclination to find out more.

However, from the brief time I had to read extracts from both web pages, I am sure that the Sai Baba Robert was referring to was Sathya Sai Baba - the one who is the subject of the www.saibabaexpose.com web site. The reason I say this is because the site refers to Sathya Sai Baba as an "Avatar", and mentions some of the happenings that Robert mentioned.

I am not sure of the relevance of all of this though. If Robert says that Sathya Sai Baba materialised before him, in his own home, as a flesh and blood Avatar, I for one have no reason to doubt that.  It follows therefore that if Sathya Sai Baba has that ability, then he must be capable of things that would normally regarded as "paranormal".

As I said, I have no idea about Sai Baba, and am not interested, but it is fair to say that great people are frequently the targets of a jealous minority, who, rather than aspire to such greatness, find it infinitely easier to try and drag people down to their own level by whatever means they can. Again - whether this is the situation with Sai Baba, I really have no idea, but I will finish this post with a quote from Albert Einstein which can apply generally:

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence -- Albert Einstein.

In addition to the word "intelligence, you might equally add "abilities".

With best regards,

Adrian.
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« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2002, 01:50:54 »

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but according to my knowledge, the Saibabaexpose saibaba is supposed to be a reincarnation of the saibaba.org saibaba, who died in 1918 (according to followers of the saibabaexpose sai baba... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_tongue.gif" border=0>)

 
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« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2002, 04:25:04 »

G'day Forum Folks!

Adept of light makes some good points, as do Florian and
many other posters.  

The book 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Paramahansa Yogananda, is
one of my favorites. Its a true gem.

"A saint is a sinner who never gave up." (Sayings of Yogananda)

I do not believe the so-far unsubstantiated accusations and rumors
concerning Sai Baba.  This sounds more like 'tall poppy syndrome'
of people trying to negate his message of peace and God realization
in preference for their own contrived version of truth.

If you really want to know the truth about the world you life in, do
not believe everything you read in newspapers and magazines, or
on TV or the net.  This is often far, far from the truth.

My senses, plus my experience with Sai, tells me that he is what
he says he is. Videos can be edited and made false, and false allegations
made to seem real. It is quite possible that Sai Baba is the victim
of a conspiracy, designed to cast doubt on his work, to make him
look bad in the eyes of modern people, to stop the spread of
his message, and the increase of his millions of followers worldwide.

I have firsthand experience with powerful conspiracies, and thus
know that they can and do happen.  The information the public is given
via TV and newspapers is often false or misleading. Anyone who thinks
otherwise is naive.  Sure, some of the stories you hear
are contrived through mischief, but some are very real indeed. However,
the official reports about such things are often contrived and far
from the whole truth.

Note that it is quite amazing what an expert can do with a video tape.

I would also like to point out that if Sai Baba craved sex,
as a powerful man he would have no problems finding willing
and discrete partners.  So why would he risk everything by
interfering with his students against their will.  This does not
make any kind of sense at all. Also, note that such accusers gain
lots of publicity and attention, and are paid lots of money for
their stories.

All influential people are prone to having false allegations made
against them, and of false evidence being presented to the public via
rumor. But it is very rare for such evidence to be presented to a
court of law and substantiated. As far as I know, no formal charges
have ever been laid against Sai Baba, and none of the said allegations
have ever been proven.

Sure, it can be said that he is too powerful, and/or that the government
of India and his millions of followers are protecting him.  But this
does not prove anything one way or the other, although it can definitely
be used to add fuel to a rumor campaign and make baseless allegations
'seem' to be more real than they actually are in fact.

Note that the catholic church had a team of bishops investigate
Sai Baba thoroughly, a ten year long investigation.  The church
was worried that Sai might have been the antichrist. This investigation
was done in the 60's, I think.

This report was never released, but a press conference
was held where a Vatican official, when asked what their findings
were, replied that Sai Baba appeared to be who he said he was. They
added when pressed, that because Sai's teachings were so closely
aligned to Christian teachings, that he could not possibly be
the antichrist.

I would also like to add that Sai Baba is well into his seventies,
although he does not look it. Its strange that no allegations of sexual
abuse were leveled against him when he was younger. If he is a sexual
deviate, as some suggest, then surely this would have manifested more
strongly when he was younger and had a stronger sex drive - curious.

People might also like to take a look at what Sai Baba does with the
many millions of dollars he is given every year.  Most of this is put
into hospitals and schools for the poor. And this fact is provable.
You must admit that this does not tally with the idea of him being
a false guru type with a sex problem.

As for werewolves being real, well, I have never personally seen one, but
I have seen demons and evil spirits (call them whatever you like)
materialize in semi physical form. In this form they are capable
of affecting matter, eg, of physically harming a person or of destroying
property, etc.  So, it is only a small step from here to believing that
an entity could shape shift and appear in animal form, say as a huge wolf.
If an entity possesses a person, it is also possible that they could
transform that person's physical body, at least in part.  I have seen
this happen, but not to the extent of total physical transformation.

I would also like to add that it is well known that materialization
mediums are capable of producing enough ectoplasm to allow spirits to
semi materialize in fully visible, touchable, photographable form.
Interested people should research books by or about Helen Duncan,
Estelle Roberts, and Sir Author Conan Doyle, and Michael Bentine, to
name a few.

In the 40's, public demonstrations were given at the Royal Albert Hall, to
audiences of several thousand people, where dozens of materialized
spirits would roam the audience simultaneously, fully visible, talking
to loved ones and etc. Today, most such demonstrations are done in private.
One such group involved in materialization production and research is the
'Scole Group' (the Scole Experiment), in the North of UK.  I believe they
recently did a tour of the USA.

The below url is worth a look.

http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/library/articlesN73+/N73Knox_Scoleimplications.htm

Most mediums capable of producing ectoplasm and materializing spirits
keep their secret abilities secret, for obvious reasons. Their lives
would be over if such things became public, re they would be hounded
by press and skeptics and scientists, and believers demanding spirit
materializations to order, for the rest of their lives.

Ectoplasm has been weighed and tested by some early scientists involved
with such mediums.  However, such investigations are seldom accepted
by other scientists, then or now, no matter who does them or how
thorough they are. The above article on the Scole Group investigation
is a good example of this. Note the extreme resistance these scientists
encountered from their peers, when they tried to table their findings
after investigating the Scole Group firsthand.

It is fairly well known that a materialization medium will lose up to
40% of their body mass during such a demonstration. This has been shown
in scientific experiments where a medium is placed on a set of scales,
and the ectoplasm they produce weighed on another. It has been noted
that the scales kept a perfect balance at all times, with the weight loss
of the medium corresponding with the weight gain of the ectoplasm being
weighed on the other scale.  This is part of the reason why such mediums
traditionally use a cabinet wrapped in black cloth (re they look
ghastly), plus the great sensitivity of ectoplasm, and the medium producing
it, to white light.  Note that the Scole Group is producing heavy
physical phenomena, including photographical ectoplasm.

Helen Duncan, who was probably the greatest materialization medium of last
century, was raided by the secret service during her last public demonstration.
She was arrested for breaking the secrecy act, re some of the spirits of
deceased soldiers, sailors, etc were telling their families war
secrets, eg, where their ship was sunk, or where their battalion was or
was going, etc.  

Helen spent some time in prison after this raid, after being badly
injured when several members of the secret service, at a set time, jumped
on materialized spirits and grabbed them, only to find they vanished in
their arms.  When they turned on the lights, a great deal of ectoplasm
was destroyed, which did Helen a lot of damage.  She died several months
later, but not before winning her case in court.  As a result of this,
the 16th century 'witchcraft act' was abolished and a new 'fraudulent
medium's act' was created.

Anyway, if you really look around you'll find plenty of evidence to
support the possibility that spirits can sometimes materialize in
physical form, under the right conditions, and that human beings can
at least partially dematerialize or change their physical form.  Obviously
such tangible manifestations are rare, but they are most definitely
not impossible.  

As for werewolves eating more than their own body weight, well, this is
difficult to prove or disprove.  If true, it may be that they somehow
transform the matter they eat into subtle energy (as the physical flesh of
a materialization medium transforms into ectoplasm), rather than digesting
it as a physical being would have to.  Keep in mind that we are not
discussing a purely physical being here, but a combination of human/demon.

My earlier comment should not be taken as a statement of fact.  I have
never seen a werewolf, but know a few people who have.  I also know one
person who claims to have seen one in action, including feeding.  This
person has great integrity, and my respect, and I have no reason to
doubt their word; but they wish to remain anonymous.  I have, however,
as said, seem a number of demons and evil spirits manifest in semi solid
physical form, and etc.  I have also seen angels and other such good
spirits materialize in semi-solid form. Because of these experiences, I
am of course open-minded about the whole werewolf thing.

Some people might prefer to think of such phenomenon as being caused
by semi materializing nature spirits with PK ability, or whatever...
But how you describe such manifestations does not really matter, as this
is simply a matter of different culturally-defined terminologies being used
to describe a variety of similar phenomena.

Of note, I also believe in UFO's, fairy beings and nature spirits. See
my online article 'Cyclone Tracy' for one such experience.

As for pentagrams appearing in palms, I think some people are over reacting.
What this means is that the lines in the hand can be interpreted as forming
a pentagram on someone who has a werewolf problem. I have seen a few such palms over the years, but have no idea if these people were actually
werewolves.  This has nothing at all to do with any metaphysical symbol, or
sigil of a demon, appearing like a tattoo on someone's palm.

(A sigil is like a pictogram signature, usually related to a demon)

Folks, please be a little more understanding before jumping to conclusions
and calling people liars or etc, just because the contents of their posts
are a little unclear, or outside one's own experience or beliefs. We are
all entitled to our opinions, so please do not respond to posts unkindly,
or in confrontational ways. We can all agree to differ without being rude
to each other.

Note that I also believe in ufo's, nature spirits and fairy beings, re
I've seen quite a number over the  years.  See my online article 'Cyclone
Tracy', for an example. I am sure that in some people's minds I am quite
the crazy person because of this.  That is, until their personal experiences
opens their eyes to the truth.

My MO is to explore a hundred and one crazy ideas that no one has ever
thought of exploring. By doing this, I come across the occasional gem.


Take care, Robert.




 
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distant bell
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« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2002, 04:37:08 »

Thank you for a wery interesting post Robert!
When it comes to UFOs I have always belived that
thy might come from another plane of existens rather
then anoother planet.. But who knows.

Al the best!

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --
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« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2002, 05:28:00 »

G'day!

I have only seen UFO's in real life.  But it is quite possible that some come from other dimensions.  I have encountered ET type beings out of body, and seen them clairvoyantly at times.  It pays to keep in mind that all physical beings eventually die, and thus become spirits.  So its thus understandable that some spirits will look like ET's.

Most spirit ET's I have encountered have been negative in nature.

However, I also think that some advanced ET races use the astral real time environment as a means to study and influence others.

Take care, Robert.


 
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« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2002, 05:37:32 »

After having read all of the posts under this topic I am thankful for the FACT that we can know the truthfullness of anything if we search and ask God...it may take time, effort, etc. but in the end we may know anything we want to know.  Sometimes we are not ready to know or see what we desire to understand, even when we truly desire it and think we're ready...I find myself in this plight more often than not, but it is my experience that with time I come to find out what I need to DO in order to KNOW.  

Thanks for all the ideas and the respectful manner they are shared....although I sense that some of the debates are heated, I rarely see outright anger or frustration manifested here.

-DT

fides quaerens intellectum
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« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2002, 07:33:07 »

G'day Folks!

First, I would like to make it very clear that I am not, nor have I ever been, a follower of Sathya Sai Baba.  But I still have great respect for his life and work, stand by all my earlier comments, and will thus enter the fray on his behalf.

In response to the forum critique concerning Sathya Sai Baba, which stated that he had been exposed as a sexual deviate and cult leader, and not a highly spiritual person, I went and read a number of websites linked through the said expose'.  I must admit that the evidence seems overwhelming and damning. That is, unless you read this with an open mind and critical eyes that search for truth. Do not believe everything you read on a website!  

Anyone could write a slanderous website, full of contrived confessions and allgeations concerning supposedly real life events, that are totally baseless. Unless Sathya Sai Baba got a lawyer to sue them in a court of law, no one could force the author of such a site to remove it.

I would like to point out that none of the evidence given on these websites seems to have ever been proven, and all supporting evidence and the references given are extremely vague.  So, what you are left with are a bunch of letters that read like confessions, supposedly written by people who were sexually abused at the hands of Baba, who is a man in his late seventies.

I also found at least one website that was written supposedly by a supporter of Baba, who admits that Baba may have a sex problem and that some of the allegations against him may be true, etc.  I found this page to be very, very clever, in that it was far more damning than all the rest of the slanderous websites put together.

However, through all this reading I noticed a similar style of writing being used in the allegations / confessions / critiques.  I also noted that many of the websites had a consistent look and feel to them.  Also of note, I found many of the confession/allegation letters seemed to have been written 'down'.  By this I see that they were written by a very intelligent person who was trying to sound less intelligent, more average, and or younger than their actual years.  The variations in style seem to be contrived and deliberate, but it is impossible to hide.  It is my opinion that some of these websites were created and or their content written by the same person, or the same group of people.

Two of the major critics of Baba are supposedly published authors who used to be followers of Baba, and who wrote two books or more on Baba and his work, some years ago.  They claim to have withdrawn these books for sale when they found out what a lying deviate Baba was.  The statements that these books were withdrawn from publication because of this said fact need careful examination, as this is a very big chink in the armor of these critics. This is because this so-called fact is used to support the integrity of the authors of the main websites that are slandering Baba, and this is used to support all the slanderous allegations.

If these books (books about Baba) were actually published through legally registered publishers, said authors would have signed contracts with their publishers.  Authors have NO legal rights to demand their publishers remove their books from sale.  Think about it? No publisher in their right mind would ever allow a contract clause that gave the author the right to remove it from sale.  This would be a ridiculous business practice!

The only way the above could have even the slightest substance, would be if these books were self-published, (Vanity Publishing), meaning that these authors wrote and printed and marketed their own books, without the aid of a publisher.  This, if I am right, means that these so-called authors are not actually authors.  Anyone can today write a book full of rubbish and self publish it, and laughlingly call themselves an author.  But this does not in any way make them an author.  Alternatively, it would be possible for an author to buy back the plates and rights to their books.  If said books were selling very, very poorly, this might be possible.  But I very much doubt this is the case.

Has anyone taken the trouble to research these books to find out what really happened?  Has anyone contacted said publishers (if there are real publishers involved) and ascertained how much truth is actually associated with their withdrawn from publication and sale?

I also found a continual allegation theme that Sathya Sai Baba is running a 'CULT', and using brainwashing methods to program and enslave followers to the point where they have no will of their own, etc.   This is very much like how the Branch Davidinians (Waco) were branded as a CULT by the media when everyone at Waco was killed.  (The Branch Davidinians were a legal branch of the Seventh Day Adventist church, not a cult. They had been living at Waco since around 1950, and had many leaders in this time, so were not exactly a cult.  And btw, the so called cult expert that appeared on TV, saying he'd been tracking David Koresh for over 20 years, was actually the X leader of the branch Davadinians.  He had been ousted for corruption a few years earlier by none other than David Koresh.)  If you don't smell something rotten here, and also in the Baba slander, then you may have no sense of smell.

I have also seen many pages citing so called lies that have been told by Baba. Some of these are utterly ridiculous.  One example is where some person asked him during an interview if he was ever going to get involved with the internet.  He said no, that he had no plans to do this.  But six months later an official Baba website appeared.  This is alleged to be a direct lie, told by a person who is reputed to be incapable of telling a lie.  But come on, isn't it possible that the idea of an official Baba website could have been triggered by this question, and that Baba's website was developed after the question.  Quite frankly, these allegations of lies are extremely childish, and to me are a sign of someone trying to create something out of nothing.  This, of course, only applies if said interview ever took place.

I am considering writing a major article exposing what I see to be a conspiracy, an organized public slander campaign against the life and work of Sathya Sai Baba, and everything he stands for.  This would have to be called 'The Slander of the Century'.  Careful  research and checking of the details of all these allegations will, I am sure, uncover a great many lies and half truths and distorted truths that have been twisted into slanderous allegations.

Added to this is Baba's continual refusal to answer any of these allegations. His usual reply when asked about this is: "Swami is pure -- end of conversation."  He believes that it is beneath any spiritually advanced person to answer baseless, slanderous allegations, and says all such slander should be ignored.  So it is unlikely that Baba will ever answer or challange these allegations in public.  This gives any who want to slander Baba the freedom to do and say whatever they like, regardless of truth.

I would also like to comment on the continual theme I read in the confession type letters, supposedly written by people who have been sexually abused by Baba.  In all of them, a great number of one-on-one consultations are cited.  Some of these claim to have had 20 or 40 or more private consultations with Baba.  Most, if not all, of these young men claim to be non indian, including students from Iran, Iraque, etc.  But this does not make any sense.  Getting an interview with Baba is extremely difficult. He refuses to see most Western people, especially Americans.  I think, if memory serves me, he sees only one or two Americans, including the guy who created the 'Hard Rock Caffee'.

Baba does not speak very much English, and generally needs a translator present.  So, the idea that he gives huge numbers of interviews to young students from many nations seems a bit strange.  

I also note an allegation that Baba was 'somehow' involved in the murder of a few people, who were supposedly caught invading his rooms and killed by supporters, and then shot by police after they were beaten and stabbed to death, and that this was then written off by corrupt police who then claimed to have shot them in self-defense when said men attacked them.  There is nothing on any of these websites to support these allegations, apart from the hearsay of a few people who claim they spoke to or overheard the people involved. No charges were ever laid, and the autopsies were said to have been glossed over.  Baba is said to have not been directly involved with the murders, but is said to have been there after a mob of his supporters captured the four (I think it was 4) intruders.  He is cited as saying, when the mob asked what they should do with the intruders, to have said "Do what you like with them, but don't involve me".

All of the above, if carefully examined, seems to me to amount to nothing more than a large amount of hearsay and distorted half-truths, which has been collected into one place to generate a seemingly-damning mountain of utterly baseless BS. I for one do not believe a word of it, and will continue to do so until I am presented with hard evidence to the contrary.

But under this pile of BS, one must try to seek out the 'reason' why such a conspiracy would be mounted to defame Baba.  There must be a reason.  What it is I can only guess at, but whomever is responsible seeks to ruin Baba's reputation and negate his work.  This is possibly being done in an attempt to stop the spread of Baba's followers worldwide, especially in the Western world, where Baba has several million devoted followers.

Methinks that if Jesus were alive today, he would encounter very similar slander.  I mean, I doubt that the powers that be would be able to cope with the existence of someone who continually proves the existence of spirit, and such things beyond the material universe, eg, God and etc. I wonder if Jesus would seek out a lawyer and sue his attackers.  Probably not, re he would probably just sigh and turn the other cheek and say "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do....."

Take care, Robert.




 
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chohan
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« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2002, 11:47:25 »

All I want to say is this Robert, whatever you do don't ever let a bit of disagreement stop you from sharing your adventures, ideas or even unproven conjecture with us. Case in point: I still get a feeling inside me that is very hard to describe everytime I read the words about the Continuance and the sword of power.

peace,
chohan


 
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Adrian
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« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2002, 13:16:26 »

Greetings!

Let me once again quote this very famous phrase from Albert Einstein:

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence -- Albert Einstein.

In addition to the word "intelligence, you might equally add "abilities" and/or "spirituality", and you might further add "for the good of mankind"

The point Einstein makes in his quote seems to be quite simple - whenever a person emerges who is clearly, to the people around him or generally more advanced than the average person, or has more to offer mankind, or is highly publicly spiritual etc., then sadly the inclination of the masses is sometimes to ridicule that person and/or attack them in one way or the other. Sai Baba might be one such example from what has been said here about him, the person 2000 years or so ago known as Christ could well have been another - I am quite sure the list is very lengthy indeed over the centuries.

One would hope that mankind would derive inspiration from such great people, and endeavour tp aspire to their status, but alas, the reality is often very different in that some people find it more convenient to be negative and destructive about genuinely great people and leaders and of their intentions.

I know almost nothing about Sai Baba aside from what Robert describes here, I merely wanted to quote Einstein in this context.

With best regards,

Adrian.

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« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2002, 22:22:11 »

With regards to the earlier conversation in this topic covering manifestations of spirits, I thought some of you might be interested in the following link:

http://www.worlditc.org/

It is currently going through a major overhaul and should be finished in a couple of months, but the site deals with the use of radios and phone lines to talk to dead spirits and the use of an instrument and polariod camer to take pictures of spirits manifesting "in" humans. I haven't dealt with it in depth, but that is the general gist.

RB, if you do indeed go ahead with your article on Sai Baba I would be interested in helping with research etc.

- Ashfo

 
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« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2002, 23:05:05 »

Greetings Ashfo!

Interesting work!

What about the use of modern digital cameras which seem to be able to capture images of subtler bodies and energies  - e.g. orbs? I assume that the ability of digital cameras to do this is due, in part at least, to the speed and resolution involved, and the capture in digital memory rather than photographic film format?

Below is a such a digital photo, with orbs clearly present.

With best regards,

Adrian.



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