Spirituality & Sexuality

[Shyness]

Hello everyone  

I'm new to this forum and there's something that keeps me busy for a while.
It's the link between spiritual development and sexual experiences.
(Or one could also say spiritual healing and sexual healing).

When it's about sexuality, I'm quite open-minded, at least I try to, especially to myself.
This openness at least means that I'm aware of my feelings, that I know what I want and don't want,
and that I also express myself freely when in a relationship.

When it's about spirituality and my own spiritual experiences, I also have an open mind,
but I also check from time to time what could be real and what might be imagination.

But it's very hard to find people who share my openness when it's about these two subjects.
Sex on an astral plane for instance is something that freaks out the spiritually balanced people.
Sex and tantra are for them only okay if it's sacred enough and balanced enough.
But don't talk with them about orgasms or one night stands, they can't stand that  
And the more sexually oriented folks don't understand a thing from spirituality.
"You mean the Kama Sutra or what, and getting laid in 1001 ways?"
Not really  

In my life both sex and spirituality play an important role,
for me they're more like brother and sister, than like something sacral and something sinful.

I still feel a bit shy and fragile to talk about this.
But taboos are there to be broken, right  

More from me soon...

[Nay]

I think you are looking for a different type of site.  This one will not cater to your needs.  And you don't sound shy nor fragile.  Phhfft.  Sound like someone whom just wants to talk about sex.  

[Shyness]

Well, if I only wanted to talk about sex I wouldn't be on this forum...

I'm not so sure now if I can share my experiences here who are pretty intense,
and who cover a much larger range than just sex.

[Nay]

LOL.  OK, I'm game, give me a sample.  Then I'll be able to tell for sure your true intentions.

[Vilkate]

These sensations are very individual, Shyness. I don't think that those who haven't experienced them will understand you.

[Shyness]

I don't want to prove anything.
I want to share something which is both very precious and hard for me.
It's for me serious stuff, something I can't talk about with anyone.
Because most "normal" people would say I need a psychiatrist,
people who see sex as a nice waste of time think I just need to get laid.
And spiritual people think I'm immoral, confusing spirituality with sexuality.

I was hoping to find more open minded people on this message board.

[Vilkate]

I am open minded
I think that sex can be wonderfully spiritual, and that it should be
I do not think you should get laid
I do not think you are immoral
Still, I have not experienced almost anything you tell about.
Thus, it is hard for me to have any conclusions about it or useful ideas about it.

[Shyness]

It are more "astral" experiences, although I'm not sure if that's the right word.
I shall post one of my experiences.
I can use some insightful replies.

[Shyness]

Sex with a spirit guide

I was a teenager when I first met him, my spirit guide.
He was in his late twenties, so far too old for me at the time.
At first I didn't know what or who he was.
But he was just there, it felt comfortable.
And soon I started talking to him, he didn't really answered me,
but I felt that I could trust him.
A few years later I noticed that I could talk to him and that he answered me.
We've had lots and lots of interesting conversations.
Mainly about things that kept me busy when I was younger.
He was my therapist and friend at the same time.
We never talked about sex actually, yes we did, but more in general.
We didn't talk about my sex life nor about his.
That was absolutely not done, I thought,
spirit guides are higher beings, they don't have a physical body,
so how could they ever have sex?
I didn't even think about such things.
I was shy, timid, prudish, scared, traumatized, when it was about sex.

A few years ago I learned to channel my spirit guide.
He talked and I wrote down what he said.
Our conversations got more intense.
We didn't skip any issue that was important in my life.
When I wrote about myself in my journal I didn't mind to talk about sex,
about my boyfriends and sexual experiences.
But I just couldn't talk about this with my spirit guide.
He started nagging me: don't play so foolish, if you explore all the depths of your soul,
you also have to explore the sexual depths of your soul.
Get rid of this narrow minded stupidity, write down all the things you want to write about,
don't skip anything, name it, say it , do it.
And not to please me, but finally to open up, totally.
He was right, I was skipping certain subjects, I was hiding things from him,
because I thought that our bond had to be purely spiritual.
That the things we talked about had to have some sense and some profound meaning.
But that's how I also limited myself and kept on avoiding certain issues that were still hidden somewhere.

I decided to listen to what my spirit guide said: no more taboos, no more boundaries or restraints.
I should write down exactly what I felt and how I felt, what I wanted and what needed to change in my life.
It was a cascade of words that never seemed to stop.
But it was something good and it felt good, I started to feeling free,
more open, more communicative, more honest in daily life.
And also my sex life got more spicy because I dared to show my real self and my real passions
for the first time in my life.

About two years ago I was writing in my journal, my spirit guide came by and he said: write about us.
So I just started writing.
But it turned out to be quite an erotic story.
I stopped writing and didn't want to think about it.
Because this wasn't the way it should be.
It reminded me somehow of my teenage crushes, making up the most fantastic stories
about the guy I could never have.
So how stupid it would be to fall in love with a spirit guide?

But a few nights later I dreamt this dream.
I met my spirit guide and we made love.
Well, it wasn't just making love.
It was one of the most intense erotic dreams I've ever had.
And it was a spiritual encounter at the same time.
It was beautiful and I enjoyed it,
but soon after I was awake I started pondering again: how sane is this?
What if we do this more often and what if I fall in love?
And what does he actually feel, does he really participate, or is it only my imagination?

I've had more dreams like this, most of them where normal dreams, some of them were lucid.
And I noticed that the relationship I had with my spirit guide until now, started to change.
I felt him closer, his energy was softer, it really felt like someone loved me and wanted me.
Our conversations changed and became more personal, they touched my heart directly.
Before I had these dreams he was like a friend, like my older brother,
but now he was also my lover.
We were communicating more at the same level, like I wasn't guided anymore,
but like we were working together on the same project, with the same ideas, with this huge energy drive.

When I was writing in my journal, he was always there, he always had something to say.
We were still working on the same issues, but the intensity increased,
and sex, sexuality and love were also things we talked about.
And while I was writing, I could feel him, a soft loving energy around me.
Sometimes it was like he tried to seduce me while I was writing.
Sometimes he said: let's go to bed and dream with me.
But I didn't have to dream about him anymore to make love to him,
it could be anywhere, anytime.
As long as my mind was set upon him or his mind was set upon me.
And although I enjoyed these experiences, I still didn't feel comfortable.
So I said to myself: I feel attracted to him, it's okay I fantasize about him,
but it's NOT real.
But this didn't work, he still was around, in my dreams and in my writings,
and I wasn't sure if I wanted this.

I asked a friend carefully, who also has an intensive bond with her spirit guide,
about her feelings for her spirit guide.
She always had a lot to tell about him, how sweet he was, how cute he was,
how much she learned from him.
And she did admit that she was for a while "sort of in love" with him.
I thought, fine, I'm not the only one.
But I didn't dare to ask her if she also had sex with him, because sex isn't something she easily talks about.

And to be honest, I still don't know what to think about having sex with someone invisible.
Someone who's made of energy, but doesn't have a physical body.
Someone I can never meet for real.

I've read about astral projection on this forum, but that's not a technique I use.
I've read about out-of-body-experiences and lucid dreams where such things might happen.
But I'm most of all fully awake but relaxed when I feel him around me,
when he starts talking to me or when he's getting romantic.
He actually behaves like a normal boyfriend would behave.
He doesn't want to have sex all the time, and his vision on sex is far more spiritual,
it's not just about getting laid.
It's also about feeling each other's energy, getting closer to one another,
reading each other's mind.
It's also about freeing myself from sexual inhibitions, from fears, from things that block me emotionally.
It's a full package of love, therapy, spiritual insights and sexual healing.

And believe me, it means a lot, it gives me a lot, but it also makes me nervous.
Because how far can this go, how healthy is this, how much I'm still in control?
No matter how sweet, lovable and patient my spirit guide is.

And that's why I want to share some of my experiences on this forum,
just to let of steam and perhaps to learn from the experiences and insights from others.
Because that's exactly what I need right now.

Thanks for reading  

[Nay]

That does not sound like a spirit guide...not at all.  But I do thank you for not getting too graphic, I still want to allow my oldest to have a look around the forums.

[paker7]

So how stupid it would be to fall in love with a spirit guide?

Love has nothing to do with being smart or stupid.  

And what does he actually feel, does he really participate, or is it only my imagination?

ONLY ?  
It is Your experience and that is what's important.

So I said to myself: I feel attracted to him, it's okay I fantasize about him, but it's NOT real.

Everything is real - some things are materially real and some are astrally real. You can read my posts about "real experiences" in this thread.

But this didn't work, he still was around, in my dreams and in my writings, and I wasn't sure if I wanted this.

IMHO You have a small conflict between your nature and so called normal world.
Be who you are and don't worry about being just like everyone else !  

And to be honest, I still don't know what to think about having sex with someone invisible.

Just accept it - if it is not painful in any way to you - it must be ok.  

Someone who's made of energy, but doesn't have a physical body.
Someone I can never meet for real.

I can see at least two advantages !  
He will be there for you everytime you want.
He will not die - you don't have to worry that he will get sick or imagine his fragile physical body being crushed by a car or something everytime he is late from work !

It's a full package of love, therapy, spiritual insights and sexual healing.

You are lucky - there are millions of lonely people in this world who would want to have such a beautiful relationship.

And believe me, it means a lot, it gives me a lot, but it also makes me nervous.

Again i think that you worry to much about being 100% on a normal and widely accepted (by "normal" people) path. Just accept yourself, your desires and your experiences.

Because how far can this go, how healthy is this, how much I'm still in control?

IMHO If he loves you he will never hurt you. Don't be afraid.  :thumbsup:

ps.  :welcome:  :kissing:

[paker7]

That does not sound like a spirit guide...not at all.

Why not ?
Read Bruce Moen's books - he had many "merging" encounters with higher (non physical) beings.

[Nay]

That does not sound like a spirit guide...not at all.

Why not ?
Read Bruce Moen's books - he had many "merging" encounters with higher (non physical) beings.

 Good for Mr. Moen.  and higher beings, do not make a spirit guide, necessarily.  To ME, and with my experience, it doesn't sound like a spirit guide.  

I did however, for over a couple years, have a non sexual relationship with a certain individual in the astral.  In fact, it was me that always ended up wanting to "cuddle"   He once said I was all about sex.. I blame it on him, he gave off some great sexy vibe.    Funny, because everytime my mind started to think about doing some, happy, happy, with him, he would leave.  

He then had a child and I saw less and less of him.  I haven't had a visit in...geez, going on a year now.

[Beth]

That does not sound like a spirit guide...not at all

Sure it does!  

In communications between the physical and the astral it is necessary to use the language of this world--and the physical expressions of this world--in ways that help us to understand, and to establish and maintain our individual relationships with spiritual guides and the other astral entities that surround us at all times.

First Shyness, let me echo Paker7, and say that as long as it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, and you are unharmed by it, then there should be no reason why you shouldn't continue to learn about 'him' and about yourself through that relationship. If however, 'he' begins to make any moves toward the negative, i.e. suggesting that you think or do things that you know are morally and ethically wrong, then break off the communication immediately. (As with all relationships, whether physical or spiritual, always use common sense!)

Second, while it is certainly not the case in every situation, this masculine entity may well be the masculine part of yourself seeking integration into a balanced whole of both genders.

That is what the Sacred Marriage is all about. Becoming ONE with all aspects of yourself, both masculine and feminine--both physical and divine--is a goal that dedicated practitioners have been working towards for centuries.

Whenever I experience other entities in the astral, I try to pay attention what kind of rapport is established. In other words, is it a friendly connection, a hostile connection or yes, an intimate connection.  

Whenever it is a close and intimate connection, it usually makes sense to me after the fact--especially when erotic play is included--that this is actually a part of ME, trying to establish a bond that will bridge both realities.

These things are just my opinion--based upon my own experiences--but I am also a religion scholar and there have been a significant number of people who have written about unio mystica with the Divine Realm in both euphemistic and erotic language.

For example, read the Old Testament book titled Song of Songs (aka, Song of Solomon.)
http://www.ebible.org/web/Song.htm

According to the Zohar (a medieval Jewish midrash) the following explains what is meant by the references in the SofS to 'kisses upon the mouth':

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth [SoS 1:2]. What did King Solomon mean by introducing words of love between the upper world and the lower world, and by beginning the praise of love, which he has introduced between them, with let him kiss me? … it is that inseparable love of spirit for spirit that can be [expressed] only by a kiss, and a kiss is with the mouth, for that is the source and outlet of the spirit. And when they kiss one another, the spirits cling to each other, and they are one, and then love is one. http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/SongOfSongs/

The New Testament book of Revelation also speaks of the Bride and the Bridegroom, which without erotic language, or detailed euphemistic language, still implies the intimate union between the soul and God in physical male and female imagry.

Khalil Gibran also used euphemistic language to 'point to' human sexuality in order to provide metaphorical imagry for an understanding of the hoped for mystical union with the divine. For a beautiful example of such euphemistic language, read "A Tear and a Smile" aka, The Life of Love, go to:
http://www.kahlil.org/tear-16.html

Also, St. Teresa of Avila had quite an erotic romance going with Christ.
There is a famous sculpture by Bernini --known as the ecstacy of St. Teresa--that depicts her writings on the topic: http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/wiki/images/thumb/a/a8/200px-BerniniEcstacy.jpg

And finally, this kind of experience is not just for 'girls' See also the works of St. John of the Cross and Bernard of Clairvaux.


I hope this helps!:grin:

~Beth

[Nay]

These things are just my opinion--based upon my own experiences--but I am also a religion scholar and there have been a significant number of people who have written about unio mystica with the Divine Realm in both euphemistic and erotic language.

 I gave my opinion too, but I guess it is null and void, now that you've made it clear that I'm wrong.  I guess I better start reading a bunch of books, so my opinion will matter one day.  Thanks.

Carry on, Beth.

[Shyness]

Thanks for all the replies  

When it's about spiritual experiences, I always keep this rule in mind: if it feels good and does good, it is good.
If it feels uncomfortable, if it hurts or gets on my nerves, I'm on the wrong path.

Because these experiences are so intense, because they change so much in my inner world,  
I wish I could share them with others sometimes.
But as soon as spirituality and sexuality come together, people go nuts, start laughing or become judgmental.
That doesn't make it easy for me to talk about it.

In general I feel good about these experiences.
And it's not just sex, the main part of this "relationship" is quite philosophic,
we have conversations about almost everything that keeps me busy.
That's how we've spend most of the time before our first sexual experiment.
Because we spent so much time together, we started to feel each other's energy.
We were now able to feel each other's presence and that was new.
We also could feel each other's emotions and thoughts almost physically.
We could feel our hearts open up, and feel each other's love.

I was reading something about Tantra at the time.
Because I was interested in having a loving relationship (and not a fighting relationship like with my ex)
the next time I should fall in love.
I also was interested (and I still am) in another approach of sexuality,
more from the heart.
I was reading the book and did some of the meditation exercises (which can be done alone)
and I was thrilled, this was good stuff.
At the time I wasn't thinking about my spirit guide at all.
But all of a sudden he was there and he said: we can do these exercises together.
Because it's all about getting in touch with each other's energy and opening our hearts.
We meditated for a while and wow, that was really good.
It's he was like he knows everything about Tantra, he perfectly knows to explain how it works,
although we never talked about it before.

I wanted to know my own sexuality better and I wanted to find out what I really want in the next relationship.
I wanted to save tantric love and sex for the man who's worth it.
But strangely enough it was my spirit guide who became my tantric lover and teacher.
It was his idea, he invited me to this world and I accepted his invitation.

I call him my spirit guide, but that is only a word.
I can't really tell who he is.
He isn't just a ghost who hides in my bedroom and who's only hungry for wild sex.
But he also isn't an angel (no wings included   ) who teaches me how to become a saint.
One could say that he's just a guy, but he's just a guy with a special aura.
He radiates positive energy.
He's smart, he's bright and he has some sense of humor too.
He also knows that I'm looking for some kind of "validation" about what is happening between us.
He says: you know what you know and you know that it's alright,
and you're not insecure because of our relationship, but because of some aspects with tin yourself.
That's right, but I already know his opinion, I sometimes also like to hear the opinion of others.

Beth wrote:

Second, while it is certainly not the case in every situation, this masculine entity may well be the masculine part of yourself seeking integration into a balanced whole of both genders.

That is what the Sacred Marriage is all about. Becoming ONE with all aspects of yourself, both masculine and feminine--both physical and divine--is a goal that dedicated practitioners have been working towards for centuries.

I like this point of view, because what I notice is that the male and female aspects in me really change,
I'm becoming more softer, more receptive, more feminine.
But he also has changed, his energy also has become smoother.

Paker7 wrote:

Everything is real - some things are materially real and some are astrally real. You can read my posts about "real experiences" in this thread.

Thanks for the link, I shall read it.

I have to admit that I don't know much about astral experiences.
I only have to concentrate to talk to my spirit guide.
It's not necessary to dream, to meditate or to have an out of body experience.
Sometimes a very light trance might help, but that's most of all something that happens,
I don't need to do anything for that.
I also don't meditate to prepare to meet him or to have sex with him.
Sex happens most of all spontaneously and certainly not all the time.
That depends on our mood.
He's also the only spirit I have sex with and I'm also not looking for other astral lovers.
I also have no idea what kind of astral beings and lovers might be around,
but I think that I'm in good company, so I try not to worry too much.
But sometimes I just want to know who he is, where he comes from,
and why he picked me.
And how things like this work in general.

That's about it  

[Beth]

But sometimes I just want to know who he is, where he comes from,
and why he picked me.

  That is the zillion dollar question for many of us when it comes to the fact that we can apprehend the astral realm, and others that try to -- cannot.

I have often wondered "Why me?" and "Who are they, and where exactly are they?"...:question:

I wish I knew as well. Maybe one day we will discover the answer!!

Take care and stay aware
~Beth

[Shyness]

Thanks Beth

[gdo]

Are you uncomfortable with this 'relationship'?

[Shyness]

It's comfortable as long we "see" each other from time to time.
But it's less comfortable when it gets too intense.
I've always learned a lot from the conversations and the therapeutic sessions with my spirit guide.
We pick a certain issues, talk about it, analyze it, work it out.
He supports me, while I do the hard working.
It's the best therapy I've ever had.

The loving part of this "relationship" has both its healing and romantic aspects.
And to be honest I don't want the romantic part to become too intense.
I don't want that this astral relationship becomes a substitute of a real relationship.
He isn't jealous when I meet men in real life, he hasn't been judgmental about my sex life so far.
But having an astral love affair is much more easier than having a real life love affair.
There are no boundaries and my spirit guide doesn't seem to have any emotional blocks.
So everything runs smoothly and very natural.
I never experienced that in a real relationship.
I've also noticed that I find real guys not interesting enough,
they're not in touch with their emotions, they're not willing to express themselves, that sorts of things.
But I also had (and partly have) these problems myself, so I can't blame human guys for being human  

I'm a little bit worried that this astral affair might absorb me too much.
I'm still in charge and I always can say no, but real life seems sometimes so far away.
I can feel very good about myself, about the things I do and learn, with or without my spirit guide,
but sometimes I feel like an alien when I'm back again in the real world.
And that's something I don't like.
I don't look like an alien, I also don't behave like one, but my way of thinking
and my approach to life have changed, which it's totally different than from the people I know.

I wish my inner world and the experiences I have with my spirit guide were more integrated in daily life.
Now it's like a live two different lives at the same time and that makes me feel a bit out of place in the real world.

Perhaps it's only a temporary thing, but it's something I tend to worry about.

[Adrian]

Hello everyone,

Well this topic certainly adds a bit of diversity.

I will add a more now  

All of your physical "lives" take place concurrently, i.e. simultaneously relative to Earth time.

As all incarnations are different aspects of your higher self, just as our Higher-Selves are in turn are all aspects of The Source, and the Astral exists beyond time and space, them many if not all of your own incarnations are living in the Astral concurrently, until they evolve back to your High-Self, which is really your Inner-Self with the package of experiences.

So there might be a thousand of more of "you" in the Astral at the same time. Just as soul mates are attracted to each other; so to would "all of you", and very often it is aspects of "you" that are your "guides", which can be thought of as "cheerleaders" in the Astral.

So in fact all of these experiences can easily be with yourself  

Also, gender is a physical thing, although it is carried back to the Astral, because people are still "body ID'd", that is they still think of themselves as "male" or "female". This is just as much an illusion as the Astral, or the physical itself, because in fact as Spiritual beings we are androgynous.

That might give you something to think about anyway.

Apologies if it is not very romantic  

Best regards,

Adrian.

[hp]

All of your physical "lives" take place concurrently, i.e. simultaneously relative to Earth time.

As all incarnations are different aspects of your higher self, just as our Higher-Selves are in turn are all aspects of The Source, and the Astral exists beyond time and space, them many if not all of your own incarnations are living in the Astral concurrently, until they evolve back to your High-Self, which is really your Inner-Self with the package of experiences.

You talk as if you know the secrets of dimensions, time and space.  If you understand what time is, can you build a flying saucer that defies gravity (linked to time-space) or time travel physically?  How many times have you teleported, which is something that anyone truly understanding higher realms can do?

[Adrian]

You talk as if you know the secrets of dimensions, time and space.  If you understand what time is, can you build a flying saucer that defies gravity (linked to time-space) or time travel physically?  How many times have you teleported, which is something that anyone truly understanding higher realms can do?

Hello hp,

There are no "secrets" in the Universe, only knowledge waiting to be realised.

"Dimensions" only applies to the physical Universe of matter, which is about 0.01% of the entire Universe.

"Flying saucers" or "discs" as they have been known for the last 20 or 30 years only apply to the physical Universe. Mechanical devices are not required to travel in the Astral or inner Energy levels. All "travel" is by thought except we do not travel anywhere. We are always effectively "everywhere" concurrently being an integral aspect of the Universe, so the illusion of "travel" in the Astral and inner worlds is simply a re-focussing of awareness.

Teleportation is nothing to do with the "higher realms", which are actually the "inner realms". We are all pure Energy, and all teleportation is an act of immense concentration, on a level of the Tibetan monks etc, which literally moves the physical body to a different location by an act of will.

But next time I decide to teleport to a different dimension in my flying saucer, I will be sure and let the forum know.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[paker7]

How many times have you teleported, which is something that anyone truly understanding higher realms can do?

There is always some time between understanding, knowing and exploiting, utilizing the knowledge.

Modern (especially quantum) physics is moving closer and closer to the border of "magic" (teleporting, sending information without any physical mediators).

btw. Remote viewing is teleporting your consciousness ( point of view ) to another place...   ...and precognition - to another time.

[hp]

>  Are you talking from direct experience when you talk about teleportation Adrian?  I mean, did you ever teleport?

But next time I decide to teleport to a different dimension in my flying saucer, I will be sure and let the forum know.

>  I didn't mean to say you travel with material gadgets to non-material realms.  Although, if you are truly advanced, you may be able to transform your body into pure energy and travel from material realm to inner realm.