Monroe "Gateway" series

[Mobius]

G,day Adrian

I have the gateway series on tape & am in the process of replacing them with cd's at the moment & have found them to be very beneficial in controling OBE's better, having them last longer, & feel I have been able to visit higher levels/planes more frequently because of it.

Not sure if I can answer your questions here as objectively as I'd like though,because I have been having OBE's since a child & don't necessarily need them (tapes/cd's) to acheive an OBE.

They definately help you relax & fall into a trance state quicker than normal, thus potentially giving you some good foundations to be able to acheive an OBE.

I have a few friends who have the gateway series as well & deeply wish to acheive an OBE, but have yet to experience one & some have even taken it to the stage of going to TMI for the courses there, but still no result.

It is hard for me to tell you whether the process gives you visual results or intuitive, because most of mine are visual & have always been that way, but others I've talked to rarely get anything visual & sounds like the download problem RB talks about & shadow memory recall.

Maybe you could post this topic again in Spiritual Truths & see if anyone there has an idea, otherwise if you wish, I can give you the URL of a friend who sells all the Monroe stuff & has a very wide knowledge of their products & using them for OBE's. This would have to be via PEM as he is a very private person.

Sorry I couldn't tell you more, but good luck anyway.

Mobius

[Frank]

Adrian: as you probably know I've been researching this exact topic for about five months now. Therefore, I'm able to give you some reliable pointers. Though I haven't experienced any teaching from TMI directly. I'm basically speaking from my own research and/or direct experiences.

The whole phasing-in concept is built on the premise that wherever you point or place your focal point of awareness: that place becomes your reality. The place becomes as real to you as being in the physical. In fact, it feels exactly like you were in your physical body and the only difference is your surroundings have changed. It's what I call plain-vanilla projection.

As such, memory retention of the experience is basically the same as memory retention of any physical-world experience. Though one big spoke in the works, retention-wise, is to fall into ordinary sleep following an Astral experience.

As with anything, technology moves on. Astral exploration is no exception. Nowadays, it would seem, the idea of leaving your body in the way of early Monroe, et al, is very old hat. Plus, doing this causes lots of problems.

Main problems being: disorientation, which is magnified by subsequent reality fluctuations; confusion and fear, caused by the feeling of actually being separate from your physical body. Which naturally leads to fears of not being able to get back in, body possession while away, silver cord breaking, and so forth. All of which cause yet further reality fluctuations.  
 
In contrast, phasing-in is a very much more user-friendly product, let's say.

Yours,
Frank


Oh, if you feel any of my posts could be useful in getting your site off the ground then I'd be happy to paste them over.

[Oliver]

Hi

What do the gateway tapes sound like?

Oliver

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

Yes, I am aware that you have been studying this area, and hoped you would respond - in particular because you have an exceptional perspective on both Astral projection and focussed meditation or awareness shall we call it.

Also of course, by projection of the mind, you are not, I don't think, restricted to the Astral levels as is the case in Astral projection due to the density of the Astral body.  

Another possibility of course (unless you have already in Astral travelling) is to meet the Beings of the elements - the Undines, Salamanders, Sylphs and Gnomes - whcih of course are symbolic in appearance, but very real.

I do think this isvery significant. I wouldn't like to think of OBE's being "old hat", but after all, the whole experience must be as useful as possible, and that means memorable as well.

This is actually precisely the sort of thing I want to discuss in Spiritual Truths, because it is opening up a whole new dimension as it were, without the mysticism, and whereby many valuable lessons and experiences might be acquired.

I would like to think that it is possible to enjoy the benefit of these experiences without hemi-sync technology. In fact, I am sure that is possible, it is just a case of how.

I would be extremely interested for you to contrast the relative experiences of OBE and Monroe Gateway, and in particular - can you still meet your guide for example and enjoy the same expereinces and level of feedback and memory.

Withe best regards,

Adrian.

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank

There is another issue actually.

Usually, in order for Astral life to perceive and interact with you, it is necessary to present yourself in a body of the same density - Astral density that is in this case. Mental projection is allows for far greater scope and reach than Astral projection, but it seems that Astral based humans in the Soul cannot always perceive a Mental body or Spirit.

I am not sure that the Monroe Gateway encompasses these concepts at all, but is more geared to the level of concsiousness involved.

Nevertheless - this is important resrearch for sure.

Could I just ask, in view of the price, is there a single Gateway CD that will allow full Astral level interaction (focus?)?

Oh yes - and as Oliver enquired - what do these CD's sound like? Is is just alpha, beta and gamma frequencies with pink sound, or does one get to enjoy Dolphin sounds and the like?  

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

Adrian: I'm not a big fan of the Monroe Institute, and I have said on another post that their way of doing things is all a bit touchy-feely for my tastes. But each to their own

What I do know is, for an obe beginner, one of the biggest stumbling blocks is knowing exactly what to do, at each step of the way. Point being, these people need to get into some kind of ritual that they can practice each day. Now it's one thing reading a book, but it's quite another having quality recorded guidance.

That's what Wave 1, CD1 gives you. It's a specific count from C1 (normal physical consciousness) through to Focus 10 (mind awake, body asleep).

It's done very professionally, and I'm a great fan of it because it has been the core help in my original efforts to slow down what was my usual projection process. (Which was basically the feeling of being shot from a cannon three times a week, on average, to someplace on the Astral somewhere.)

The CD does not "induce" an obe. That's the brilliant part about it. All it does is, "set the stage" and leaves it up to you to play your part. I'm not sure where the "Hemi-Sync technology" aspect comes into it either. There are subtle sounds on the tape but are mainly in the background. What you hear mainly is Bob Monroe's voice guiding you through the various steps.

I only recommend Wave 1 CD1. It's all you really need. Because the rest, the average person could discover for themselves through interaction with others on this BBS.

At Focus 10, you are right on the brink between human physical consciousness and the start of the Astral. This state has made it possible for me to contact guides with a *much* higher degree of reliability and, for the past couple of months, I have been practising "channelling" information while at the Focus 10 state, again with excellent results.

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

Yes, I have to say that Monroe does seem somewhat commercial, which is why I haven't used their products or listed their web sites. It looks like a typical sell-up type thing to me. A bit like those Linguaphone things http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

But of course it is the true value in the context of what we discuss here that I am interested in most, and thanks for your comments - most interesting!

If I understand you correctly, are you saying that Wave 1 CD1 gets you to that pivotal stage of consciousness where you can make your own choice? Or specifically, could you raise your awareness from there to the mid to high Astral of your own accord - i.e. without voice or hemi-sync guidance?

If so - it seems worth it.

I don't want to take much of your time, but I am particularly interested in this quote:

quote:

At Focus 10, you are right on the brink between human physical consciousness and the start of the Astral. This state has made it possible for me to contact guides with a *much* higher degree of reliability and, for the past couple of months, I have been practising "channelling" information while at the Focus 10 state, again with excellent results.

Are you saying that you are attaining better results than OBE, and also, what sort of information are you channeling and from whom?

Thanks as always.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[michael]

I attended thew gateway experience lasst year...very enjoyable meeting like mided folks..well organised etc...when i got the Going Home tapes prior to the visit(ordered separately) I had a very short OBE while using them..nothing spectacular...when i went on the course there were approx. 20 people..two of  whom had experienced what i would term "clasical" OBE's..ie like sylvan muldoon, robert etc..one girl in aprticular said she was  wanting to STOP Obeing since it freaked her out..she said ..when we were lying in the cubicles listening to the tapes that she was going round us all trying to pull us out of our bodies..i was the only one who did not sense her doing this..she was quite an aggressive person..but i eventually asked her to describe exactly what she was doing/had experienced..in my opinion I told her that at best she was experiencing a "mental" projection..ie not an astral projection where you are actually aware of leaving your physical body etc..she eventually admitted this..so..there is the capacity to get into all these levels..they say..I was the Only onethere who did NOT get past focus 10..body asleep/mind awake....if i had I would have OBE's...I did not..and by the end of the week i got really fed up listening to the tapes...but that was my experience..i would encourage folks who are rely keen and have money to spare to go..sicne i greatly admire Robert Monroe..but i feel that the whole system now is to new Agey..and real OBE's are not really soughtafter..more the loving etc attitudes etc etc..nothingwrong with this but not for me..

[kifyre]

There seems to be two different concepts expressed here. I'm going to call them OBE and CF (Consciousness Focusing).

I'd like to point out the possibility that, though these two "modes of travel" seem to be very different, they may be an expression of the same fundamental underlying mechanism.

What I mean simply is that OBE and CF might be the exact same thing. CF would be a more "high level" approach. CF could be seen as concentrating on the destination, where OBE focuses on the journey. In both cases, though, it's possible that an energy body is created, projected, and maintained by the original consciousness's "bioetheric" body.

I make this argument because Frank's experiences (from his posts) often have classic OBE elements. Also, when I personally work on CF, energetic sensations (because I'm sensative to them) begin of their own accord--very similar to classic projection attempts.

Energetic sensations tend to not be felt except for three cases: you're looking for them, you're sensative from energetic development, or they're simply very strong. In Monroe's first book he describes the incredible, rough, vibrations he felt at first. Later in the book he says how these became a hum, warmth, and finally just a feeling that he could get out.

So, I think it's possible that the same thing may be happening in each case, just a different point of view.

I say CF is more high level, because it's like walking or digestion. It's either learned or ingrained and the body takes care of itself. Classic OBE seems to be a more low level approach, learning each stride by itself and working with the underlying mechanisms directly.

One of the purposes of this post is so a rift is not created, people don't get confused or discouraged or think they need to buy a $100 dollar CD, etc. Perhaps the most useful elements of each approach can be combined. For example, it's been shown that energy work is not necessary for projection. However, many people (including myself) find that projection experiences are usually preceded by energy work, and dream recall is improved. Energy work seems to work like weightlifting. A more fit energy body, a more fit physical body = better performance.

Arguably, CF might be easier to teach - with audio, etc. Then again, some people might have much better luck with a tactile, low-level approach. It'd be easier for them to get the feel.

Please, let's use dotted lines for our theories, not solid lines. Let's see what works, and recognize our theories as working models that may or may not describe the same thing.

I think we're all working towards an enhanced, more consistent experience that can shared with, and taught to,  other people as easily as possible.

Let's keep all our options open.

Mark

[michael]

You make good points Mark..( i apologise for the rushed post.toomany typos..no patience!!)....it is just that I have had this sort of expereince with a lot of people....they speak about their "astral travels"...etc..and in my view they are mostly..vivid imaginations..vivid dreams...not even lucid in many cases.......this leads sceptics ( I know i should care less what they think..but sadly I do)...to dismiss all our accounts....

[astralmaster]

Frank,
Just a quick question: When you say Wave 1 CD 1, do you recomend just intro to focus 10(track 2) or the Orientation also?
Also, What do you think about the 3rd track (advanced focus 10 - on cd 2), do you think that the intro to focus 10 is more crucial?

Thanks

David

[Frank]

quote:
If I understand you correctly, are you saying that Wave 1 CD1 gets you to that pivotal stage of consciousness where you can make your own choice? Or specifically, could you raise your awareness from there to the mid to high Astral of your own accord - i.e. without voice or hemi-sync guidance?

The Wave1 CD1, teaches you how to bring your awareness to the Focus10 state. After a while, you learn to be able to do this by yourself, i.e. without the CD. What I do is, each morning, listen to Wave1 CD1 (track 2*) a couple of times just to get me in the mood. Then I go through the process without the CD. At Focus 10 you are right on the border of the Astral. All it takes from there is a little mental push and you are in.

* Track 1 gives you some prelims that you only need to go through once or twice.

quote:
I don't want to take much of your time, but I am particularly interested in this quote:

At Focus 10, you are right on the brink between human physical consciousness and the start of the Astral. This state has made it possible for me to contact guides with a *much* higher degree of reliability and, for the past couple of months, I have been practising "channelling" information while at the Focus 10 state, again with excellent results.

Are you saying that you are attaining better results than OBE, and also, what sort of information are you channeling and from whom?

A resounding yes.

At the moment I am practising putting out mental questions, over the Astral, from the Focus 10 state. Then I leave myself open to receive the answer. It's still hit and miss because I only recently began trying this. Again, it was my being able to reliably get myself to Focus 10 that opened up the possibility to try new things in a controlled way.  

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

Thanks again for this excellent information!!!

Are you able to meet and interact with your Astral guide (Harath?) from a Focus 10 state, and potentially carryout such tasks as soul retrieval such as you desribed before?

Or are the CD's more of a communication tool than OBE alternative?

Clearly, if the same or better level of interaction and sense of "being there" can be attained from a level of awareness/consciousness, rather from  than the more volatile/subjective OBE state,  this is very important.

Thanks for your patience!

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by astralmaster:
Frank,
Just a quick question: When you say Wave 1 CD 1, do you recomend just intro to focus 10(track 2) or the Orientation also?
Also, What do you think about the 3rd track (advanced focus 10 - on cd 2), do you think that the intro to focus 10 is more crucial?

Thanks

David

You need to go through the prelims on Wave-1, CD1, track-1 a couple of times just to familiarise yourself with the terminology. After which all you need to listen to is track 2. I did try to progress beyond CD1 and tried the Focus 12 stuff but couldn't get on with it, as it was getting in the way of me projecting.

With a little practice, it becomes fairly easy to project from the Focus 10 state. You don't really need all the rest because, if you can get to Focus 10 and project, then the next step is to make contact with an Astral guide or two. They will be able to help you *far* more than some CD.

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:

With a little practice, it becomes fairly easy to project from the Focus 10 state. You don't really need all the rest because, if you can get to Focus 10 and project, then the next step is to make contact with an Astral guide or two. They will be able to help you *far* more than some CD.

Here is where I am getting confused or just dense http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Are talking about getting to "Focus 10" and then converting that into a regular OBE and all of its inherent problems with reality fluctuations, memory recall etc., or rather continuing to raise the consciousness to the Astral (Focus 27 in Monroe speak) in a trance state as it were (for want of a better analogy), and participating from an altered state without the OBE? I get the impression from reading the Monroe marketing stuff that this is the case.

If the latter, I am sure it would be a vast improvement over OBE, due to the increased objectivity, participation and most importantly full memory recall. That is why I was asking about working with your guide in OBE v "Focus 27".

Apologies gain for pressing this one - but I regard it as extremely important.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

Adrian: During normal everyday consciousness, our focal point of awareness is in the Physical (C1, in Monroe terms). The other Focus levels are thought about as merely an extension of consciousness-awareness that include non-physical realms.

In other words, when I project, I am not "out" of anything. All I am basically doing is becoming aware of other aspects of "me" that I hadn't previously focussed upon.

The big problem arises with people because they believe that they, on the Physical, are just a physical-body and that is that. But no, the physical-body aspect is merely one facet of the whole thing.

But please don't ask me what that "whole thing" is. I don't know. I only made contact with a small section, thus far.

Yours,
Frank

Just a thought:

It's not a case of travelling anywhere in some other body. It's merely becoming aware of what is *already* within you.

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

You are very correct of course in what you say in that we are a composite of physical, astral and mental bodies in broad terms - there are others as well, but lets just work with those for this purpose.

In an OBE, according to my understanding, the astral body (or a copy of it) containing the awareness actually leaves the physical body, and which is maintained by the Astral matrix - the silver cord until they reunite.

In a meditative state however, where one is "raising" ones consciousness, no such projection takes place it would seem, but rather the base level of consciousnes is "focussed" at a higher level, and can interact at that level. In the latter case, as their is no physical separation if that is correct, then all of the problems associated with OBE do not occur - it is much more stable.

That is what I am trying to understand - the relative "quality" and "reliability"of the OBE on the one hand, against the focussed higher state of consciousness on the other hand.

How does that reconcile against your own experience? It is evident from your postings that the "focussed" Astral work is far superior to the OBE?

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

quote:
In an OBE, according to my understanding, the astral body (or a copy of it) containing the awareness actually leaves the physical body, and which is maintained by the Astral matrix - the silver cord until they reunite.

It's a notion that I too used to subscribe to. After all, that's what it said on the box, which told me what to expect when I opened it. How was I to know any different? But the idea of me getting taken by it now makes me chuckle, and it does sound rather quaint in a romantic sort of way. Reminds me of the feeling I get when watching one of those black & white romance-movies of the 1940's and 50's.

I've spoken before of the role emotion plays in creating the Astral circumstances that surround you. Release of emotion, particularly any kind of fear or anger, has a full-on, right in your face, kind of effect. But there are other, equally powerful, energies that colour a person's Astral experience. The main two are: belief and expectation.

Like emotion, they are powerful energies but their effects are very much more subtle.

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

The Astral matrix or "silver cord" is real enough. It is what sustains life between the Astra-Mental and physical bodies while OBE as it where.

The Astra-Mental body also "leaves" at night while asleep, and permanently at physical death,  and the cord serves the same purpose. So I personally do not think that there is much doubt about the Astral matrix, or the fact in an OBE the Astra-Mental body actually does separate from the physical.

But this is the point I am getting at - is this so called "Focus 27" via "Focus 10" actually an OBE, or rather a raised level of conscious awareness to that Astral level? I suppose Clairvoyance is another example of Astral awareness without the OBE. The real question in this case is - if one is is interacting with the Astral on the basis of a raised level of consciousness, how does the experience differ between that and an OBE.

Also, and if you are not sure of which is occuring yet via Focus 10, notwithstanding the above, how does the level of interaction, qulaity of the experience and in particular memory recall differ?

Apologies again for pressing this one, but it seems to me that the Focus 10 CD is alot more than getting to the "body asleep, mind awake" state, which, after all, is a pre-requisite of most OBE's?

Thanks again.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

The projection experience feels like you have shifted your surroundings, not your body. That's the best I can explain it. As I say, belief and expectation are very powerful energies that can have ever so subtle effects. Whether you have a percept of different bodies, chords, etc. basically depends on what you believe is real for you.

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

Thanks again - it is difficult I know to describe these things, and I appreciate your patience!

Just talking around this, - the etheric (in the case of an RTZ projection) and Astral bodies are really finer duplicates of the physical, initially at least, so it would not be surprising that they felt the same from an OBE perspective.

This must be the case I guess, because after physical death, which after all can be likened to a permanent OBE, the person often does not perceive any difference in the reality of their body until they achieve that realisation, and that is often a problem as to why Souls can become "earth bound".

My point of question however is that raising consciousness is not an OBE, but an altered state of awareness, or to use a Monroe analogy - focus.

I suppose the other issue is how real you would seem to the beings of the Astral world in an OBE and raised level of consciousness or "focus" respectively, if indeed there is any difference.

Tricky things to get the mind around http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

But the main thrust of my questions are in trying to ascertain whether the "Focus" approach is more meaningful than the OBE approach.

Thanks again for your patience!

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Windameir]

Frank
While listening to the Monroe CD Orentation and Intro to Focus 10 I went tru the motions Monroe leads you through but Maybe Im missing something he says when I count to 10 you will be in focus 10 yada yada but I don't feel like anything is different. I have listened to them many times. ..Got any pointers?
by the way when you bought your CDs Did they come with any kind of manual?

bassicly im just having trouble getting to the body asleep part my mind seems really good at staying awake. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Travels
Windameir

To make the best better

[ralphm]

Does anyone reccommend  any of the single cd's that have hemi-sync on them, since they are $20 versus $100 for the gateway series? I see that there is one on transendence, it seems like a likely candidate for someone that has a little obe experience.

[Adrian]

Greetings RalphM and everyone!

A business that has an excellent reputation, and operated by a person who has a reputation for not only being very good at what he does, but extremely friendly and helpful as well is Brainwave Mind Voyages:

http://www.brainwave-entrainment.com

I think these CD's are around $15 each, and have an excellent reputation - here is a typical testimony from their feedback page:

"I have used brainwave CD's by a company called Brain Sync, the Monroe Institute's Hemi-Sync (which was very expensive - did not produce results - and is kindergarten compared to your CDs. I really like your Trance Induction Lucid Dream CD the best. I think the CD was well thought out and has everything one would need to have a lucid dream or an obe." -mike.t

Obviously I have no association with these people, but I would be very interested indeed to hear feedback from people here should they try any of these products.

With knd regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Adrian:
Just talking around this, - the etheric (in the case of an RTZ projection) and Astral bodies are really finer duplicates of the physical, initially at least, so it would not be surprising that they felt the same from an OBE perspective.

It's common to think that way, in terms of other "bodies" I mean, and it gives a person something concrete they can relate to. Though in those terms, the Physical is really a denser duplicate of the Astral. Thinking of the Physical as a start point, or basis, is very common. But the Physical is really an end result.

I look at it like clothing. In the sense that if I'm attending an important function, like a business meeting for example, I'll wear a business suit. When I'm pottering in my garage-release-workshop tuning one of my cars, or motorcycles, I'll wear overalls. If I'm on holiday, relaxing poolside, I'll wear shorts and sunscreen. All different outer layers that suit the occassion and/or circumstances, but it's the same Me within.

quote:
This must be the case I guess, because after physical death, which after all can be likened to a permanent OBE, the person often does not perceive any difference in the reality of their body until they achieve that realisation, and that is often a problem as to why Souls can become "earth bound".

My point of question however is that raising consciousness is not an OBE, but an altered state of awareness, or to use a Monroe analogy - focus.

In order to operate on the Physical you need a physical sheathe which, in term of today's technology, has a certain sell-by date. Again, it is common to view the Physical as an origin hence the term permanent OBE. I suppose the non-difference in their reality is similar to the non-difference felt when phasing, though belief and expectation do play a large part. As you believe, so it instantly becomes. Which only has the effect of reinforcing the original belief, and so it instantly becomes more... and more... and more........... ad infinitum (literally).

quote:
I suppose the other issue is how real you would seem to the beings of the Astral world in an OBE and raised level of consciousness or "focus" respectively, if indeed there is any difference.

There are so many variables in this kind of interaction it is not possible to comment on what may, or may not be the case. What is "real" is very subjective to all manner of possible fluctuations.

quote:
Tricky things to get the mind around. But the main thrust of my questions are in trying to ascertain whether the "Focus" approach is more meaningful than the OBE approach.

Difficult to say because the term "meaningful" is so darned subjective. Though I'd say the focus approach is more in line with non-physical reality. In that you are experiencing what is as opposed to experiencing what you believe and/or expect.

The way I see the focus approach is like an advancement in technology. Someone said that the traditional obe approach and the focusing approach are basically one and the same. Well, no and yes.

To me it's like comparing a high-end manufacturer's top-of-the-range motor car with a Ford model T. Yes, they are similar in that they are both powered by an internal combustion engine; have 4 wheels each rotating about a central axis held by suspension; both have seats; a steering wheel, etc., etc. On paper they appear very similar, but in actuality they are very, very different.

That primary difference is: technology.

So drive 500 miles in a top-class Mercedes and you get out feeling relaxed and comfortable. Try the same in a Ford model T and imagine, 500 miles of being jiggled about; exposed to the elements; maybe a breakdown (or two) along the way.

Yours,
Frank