Estimation of how many LIARS are here

[beavis]

Most would like to believe that nobody here is a liar, but the fact is that some do lie on this website. I remember a thread admitting many lies from the thread creator.

I have never intentionally lied on this website. If you believe that is up to you.

How much do you trust what people post here?

[Frank]

I lie all the time.

Yours,
Frank

[Rob]

LOL Frank, sly!!

Usually can go some way to telling if someone is being honest by what they say, how they say it, and how they react to replies. Oh, and their history. And intuition.
But mostly I trust people here. I dont really see what can be gained by BSing, an ego-boost? Quite a peculiar thing to do, and IMO rare.

Rob

[Telos]

You couldn't fool me, Frank!

Beavis, I suspect that there are very few liars here, if not zero. The thread you're talking about happened almost a year ago, and it was one person who said that he was feeling sorry for himself for not being able to OBE.

So this...

but the fact is that some do lie on this website

...is wrong, unless you find someone else to make the total more than one. [Edit: You can't include Frank, he's not lying as much as he's being a sophist.]

This forum is flooded with newcomers asking the same newcomer questions over and over. On top of that, barely anyone shares noteworthy experiences anymore. So, there's  no longer any reason to feel sorry for one's self, and no reason to be jealous of others. If there are no reasons for those, then there are no reasons to lie.

Except for amusement. But I doubt anyone would find it amusing after 1 or 2 posts. Not that I know from experience, or anything...

[Nostic]

I also notice that it's rare for anyone here to post any truly incredible experiences. If people are lying, they are coming up with some pretty dull lies.

[Potatis]

I'd like to hear about more experiences though, even if they are dull.

People are always saying they are experienced from years of obes, and after reading someone else's post, they say how something like that happened to them too. Why don't they write what happened to them at the time they experienced it?

I'd say interesting obes are going on all the time, but people are keeping the experiences to themselves. I remember when Major Tom wrote how he saw his physical body was following him around. Amazing stuff. But experiences like that tend to come up more when responding to people's questions instead of a separate great post.

As someone who is actively trying to have his first obe, I can only imagine that if it someday does happen, I'd want everyone to hear what the experience was like, even if it was uneventful. The fact is, as a person yet to experience an obe, I feel I can learn from anything I read about people's experience. It'd be so exciting to have an obe, it feels now that I'd be writing about every one of them I ever had here. It may be of interest at least to those who have never had an obe. I can't get enough of trying to find out "What's it like?", then when I read someone's answer, I try to find other people's answers to that question. I love to read posts about obe experiences.

I've just read what I wrote above, and it sounds a bit like I am complaining     hehehe I meant it just as some side info I hope people will keep in mind...    Lots of people write about their experiences here, I'd just love to read more.

I don't think I've told any lies in this post.  

Potatis

[Nay]

I've posted many of my experiences, I suppose they just aren't that thought provoking.  

I had a interesting dream this morning and plan on posting about it..or do dreams not count?

Nay

[Telos]

The most interesting experiences, I think, would not be of much subjective interest to the projector in question. The experiences I'm referring to are the ones that validate AP/OBE as a psychic phenomena.

Guide encounters, philosophical conversations with entities, emotionally traumatic experiences, questionable "synchronicities," seeing weird things and not being sure what you saw... all these pale in comparison to stories where people predict the future, read the minds of others, and observe events from afar. Those are the experiences that force us to recognize that we live in a common reality.

As MajorTom said, we all have interesting experiences that are of interest to ourselves, but rarely do we have one that is of objective significance.

[Jenia_San]

I noly lie when I might gain something from it...
and I don't believe I'd gain anything from doing that here

[Rastus]

I think what some are seeking is to have someone 'project' to a given location, retrieve the secret playing card, and return to tell the tale?  For 'proof'?  Those that aren't doing it always want proof.  Those that are don't bother with trying to 'prove' it to skeptics, there's no reason to.  Once you have the experience, either you embrace it or try to explain it away as something else.  Did it ever cross a skeptics mind that in the area of thought=reality, your doubt is what keeps you bound?

And are we limiting to just AP/OBE, or are other aspects up for discussion.  I would say the majority of people on this site don't believe in guides/helpers, much less work with them.  How about higher Energy work?  The Craft?  Healing?

Some things aren't discussed because it's not worth the effort.  There are alternative places to discuss the more esoteric things.

[Potatis]

I've posted many of my experiences, I suppose they just aren't that thought provoking.

Nay, some of your posts have been the most thought provoking to me. I found your posts on retrievals fascinating to the extent that it is the number one thing I would like to do if I can have an obe. Frank has posted about retrieval work in the past too. I haven't seen any posts recently about retrievals. Is anyone still doing them? Nay, post your dream!

MajorTom, it had crossed my mind that people might be modest and not want to show off. People, in my opinion, shouldn't worry about this... worry that they may appear better than others. By posting, they may actually learn something from someone else, and realise there is much to learn from that experience from others. In other words, maybe they could realise they are not "better" than everyone else, as others have had similar experiences, but they may also learn something from others that they didn't learn immediately from their own experience. I am not being very clear here, let me give an example.

Imagine wildly that I have my first obe today. I write here how exciting it was for me because I found myself "out of body" in my room, and I floated through a wall and couldn't control my movements, or see clearly, but nevertheless it was great. Someone else writes back to explain how I can see more clearly and gain better control. I learn from my "uneventful" run-of-the-mill newbie obe.

That's at the simple level, but those who have more advanced experiences could probably learn something from someone else who's been there, done that. Also, if newbies like me experience that in the future, we will remember the post and would have a better idea of how to react to that circumstance, which may be better than what the original poster did. I have already learned a lot fom those who have gonebefore me and posted their experiences. If I had that experience above, I'd command "Clarity Now!", and try to think myself to where I want to go, instead of walking. That's from reading other people's experiences, I have a head start. I don't have to learn from scratch through a lot of trial and error.

You might think your own experiences are not worth writing about sometimes, but you don't know who it might help sometime in the future. All obes are great!

I'll stop now  

Potatis

[Telos]

The most interesting experiences, I think, would not be of much subjective interest to the projector in question. The experiences I'm referring to are the ones that validate AP/OBE as a psychic phenomena.

Well, that would of course be your individual value statement, since within your frame of reference they may be considered to be the most "spectacular". It does come however from a position of doubt or measuring them against what constitutes reality for you that makes them seem so very important. As far as myself, I consider those experiences to be the least "spectacular".

As I'm prone to do, I did not express myself clearly. I meant "interesting" in the general context, such that a general person on a general day would find the post to be interesting in a profoundly non-general way (the word "paranormal" comes to mind).

Rather it's about transcending (in either the esoteric or non-estorical meaning of the word) the divisions between subjectivity and objectivity.

MajorTom, shouldn't one be able to demonstrate that they've transcended the divisions between subjectivity and objectivity? Would they not want to express their transcendence as such?

Neither is recognizing the value of subjective experience always used as an excuse to bypass the difficulties that arise with establishing the "hard proof". It can be an excuse for some who basically believe in anything, but some have genuinely gone past such "objective" considerations in a very valid way.

I suppose I'll never understand the validity of passing objective considerations. Sounds like turning your back on the world, to me.


Edit: Oops..I messed up your response by editing your mail rather than replying to it. Was able to retrieve it though.
MajorTom
Edit: No worries

[Nay]

Nay, some of your posts have been the most thought provoking to me. I found your posts on retrievals fascinating to the extent that it is the number one thing I would like to do if I can have an obe. Frank has posted about retrieval work in the past too. I haven't seen any posts recently about retrievals. Is anyone still doing them? Nay, post your dream!

That is the highest compliment I could ever get...thank-you so ever much for that!    Unfortunately I haven't done a "conscious" retrieval for some time, but I will tell you that, ALOT of my dreams seem to be just that.  It seems I learned how to do all this astral stuff before there was a guide line on how to do it.  Awwwww..I just thought of Gina..god bless her, her retrievals brought me to tears.  

I do feel that some of my experiences are just sooooooo blah..lol  I mean really, do you want to hear about me being a cowboy whom saved a whole town? lol....now THAT was boasting..  

Seriously though, there are some dreams/projections that I can just not put into words.....honestly, I can't find the words to explain what I went thru, so instead of trying to post about it, I keep it to myself...and believe me, I can tell the difference because of the silly voice in my head saying.."this is for you, take it..."  Those are the personal events in my life that take place...and frankly, I'm sorry I love y'all, but those are MINE...

Nay

[Telos]

For whom would you want to demonstrate?

For some reason, I think that if someone did transcend the divisions of subjective and objective reality, then they would have fun practicing its power, the way a bird likes to fly and the way a mathematician likes logic games.

Anyone could watch and observe, regardless of whether they were open or closed-minded. They would agree on the facts. That is a bird flying. That is a mathematician doing a logic game.

By what standard or what measure?

The truth should be as evident as the Earth is round. Those who do not agree that the Earth is round are not considered closed-minded skeptics - they're likely to be considered mentally challenged buffoons.

But, most importantly, by the standard and measure that it moves humanity forward and improves the quality of life.

In either case, not planning a deep discussion on the pro's and cons of the scientific method here. Just to say that even so called "objective reality" loses its glamour if no longer considered to be a taken for granted reality.

Well, this thread is about lying, and therefore, about truth.

Recall the proverb (now cliche), "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." Now, I could write down a long series of instructions for you on how to fish, and it might make for some entertaining reading. Or, I could show you a nice spot on a river nearby, and give you a visual and auditory demonstration on how to fish, especially when it comes time to reel one in. If ever you questioned this whole fishing thing, thinking, "it's not possible for me to fish... I'm just not made for it," you could look at your methods and compare them to my own, with the certainty that I was doing something right... because you saw me catch a fish!

So, the new age community has a new proverb, I think. "Write a book about fishing, make someone smile. Demonstrate how to fish, make someone happy."

[Nay]

Telos, love ya man, but you are sucking all the fun out of this thread...lol...well, for me at least.

Nay

EDIT: LOL...now I see, you two need to take it outside.  I got confused by the TWO threads about lies, perhaps you BOTH should, stop, look, and listen..

[Nay]

It's an experiment on how to keep several simultaneous topics running in one  thread....sort of like a multidimensional anti-gravitional rotation thingie...

Ok I shut up now  

NO WONDER why my feeble mind couldn't keep up!  Dang multidimensional anit-gravitional rotation thingies!!!!!!  

Y'all continue, it just seemed like too much picking apart for a chat forum, but I'm totally a silly girl...no lie.

Nay

[SpectralDragon]

On the reasons some people don't post thier experiences here: I hate to say it, but based on reactions to people posting experiences of incredible natures, people tend to just tear them apart here using dogma and thier own personal feelings. If this were not the case I have had a few things I would post here in order to get people to want to OBe more. Fictional worlds was one such example (which I didn't want to do for the reason above, I might add), as was the zeta threads (I am not saying I believed what was being said in those threads, but those threads needed better care as people were being a little too bully-ish. The man does think he is legit (I believe at least), and as such a more modest approach is what I feel should have been taken in order to show him how people feel.)

[Nay]

Hahahaha...nuff said MT.

Ahhhhhh Spectral....We've been round and round haven't we?  You really want to go there?

You know how I feel about your fictional world thread, I felt it was........well, what THIS thread is about.  It read like a story and....

Ok, going to put a disclaimer here..lol.. this is ME talking ONLY me, not the site, not a Moderator, but me...Renee'

You claimed things, that even  Mr. Robert Bruce himself couldn't claim.  I gave you my story for you to explore and you were so wrong it wasn't funny.  Then you turned it around.......that is what got me.  I was soooooo willing to try and understand yet, no that wasn't enough.  

I think you are a great guy, if you could just get past the "feeling important" part.  I know and have felt the kind of pain you been through, but that doesn't excuse trying to give people a false hope.  Eh, that isn't the right wording..... it's more like dangling a carrot infront of someone whom is never going to get the carrot........because the carrot was never there to start with.

Renee"


EDIT:  LOL..ok I see you deleted your post MT, but mine still stands..

[SpectralDragon]

I told you Nay, this was an experiment with multiple topics...multidimensional anti-gravitional rotation thingie  

Post disappear, and then suddenly turn up again elsewhere...  

Anyways, SD, the responses you experienced as "negative" were fairly  mild in my opinion. That wasn't dogma, but rather those experiences having a far-fetched quality to some.

Those disagreeing opinions are allowed on these forums, and very necessary also IMO.

With all due respect Major Tom, several individuals telling me I am starting a cult is not a simple "disagreement." That was when things really started getting ugly. I won't name any names but it was a bad move on the part of the individual who did that, and for that reason the thread was deleted even though it was agreed it would stay. I have more to say on that subject but seeing as how my opinion on this will simply get deleted I will stop there.

Nay, I am not seeing how you can claim I was totally off. I got more than a few things right as some people can attest to. I don't remember the details. I respect your opinion however.

(How do you call someone who you believe is lying a great guy?)

As I said previously: don't bash it till you try it. I HAVE heard back from people who have done what I said I have done. Remember, the goal was to get people more willing to train so they can do amazing things. And I do say again, I originally did NOT want to do that topic. I was pushed into it.

Oh, and I might note that Mr. Bruce HAS claimed to explore fictional worlds. Just read about it in his book, though those are only thought forms it shows how anything is possible in the astral.

Please read the following on this:

G'day!

1. People are free to believe whatever they want to believe.  Lots of people today believe they are channelling in some way or other communications from angels and archangles, etc. But, personally, I do not think these people are actually in contact with these exalted beings. I suggest that they may instead be in contact with spirits claiming to be these beings. RB.

2. Exploring fictional worlds through OBE is quite possible. This is much like what I called 'Virtual Reality Projection' in Astral Dynamics. If someone put a lot of time and effort into creating a virtual world, or a fictional world in a book, then it would be possible to enter this and explore, etc. And this would provide some contact with the mind and imagination that created it, making it possible to explore other possibilities of same. RB.



1.) What's your opinion of the Mediating an Archangel thread?

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10843&highlight=


2.) There used to be a thread on Astral Pulse by Spectral Dragon called "Exploring Fictional Worlds". The idea was that people's pooled thoughts create new areas in the astral and we can project to those new worlds and see what people are thinking.

For instance, in the thread one poster projected into the thought form world created by another poster's novel that he was writing. He was able to report on things that the novel author was thinking about but had not yet written.

As SD describes it, "Those worlds are there regardless of other individuals ideas. What happens is an individual goes through a gate room conected to those other universes. IOW I have explored universes that are not in any book."

What's your opinion on that?

It would seem that robert is in agreement. I rest my case on that.

anyway, if you wish to call me a liar, fine. But if you wish to tell me I am starting a cult then we are going to have a problem. I stated my case, and in the past I have had "listening problems," and as such this is all I will say in the matter unless as stated I get blamed for starting a cult. (And this time I mean it.)

Also, this "I see you deleted your post" has me wondering if this is going to flare another argument. If so another good reason to simply drop this right here. The way that reaction seems makes it seem overly negative.

[Rastus]

Starting a cult is nothing.  How about being called Jim Jones of Guyanna fame?  And for saying we have the ability within ourselves to decide to get well or stay sick.

And of course, what others think of you matters how?

[Veccolo]

Many people here are very gullible. They don't lie, they just really believe what they say without questioning their beliefs.

There are (if at all) very few liars here.


> How much do you trust what people post here?

Not much.

[sweetbliss]

Guide encounters, philosophical conversations with entities, emotionally traumatic experiences, questionable "synchronicities," seeing weird things and not being sure what you saw... all these pale in comparison to stories where people predict the future, read the minds of others, and observe events from afar. Those are the experiences that force us to recognize that we live in a common reality.

As MajorTom said, we all have interesting experiences that are of interest to ourselves, but rarely do we have one that is of objective significance.

Rather it's about transcending (in either the esoteric or non-esoterical meaning of the word) the divisions between subjectivity and objectivity.

For some reason, I think that if someone did transcend the divisions of subjective and objective reality, then they would have fun practicing its power, the way a bird likes to fly and the way a mathematician likes logic games.

Anyone could watch and observe, regardless of whether they were open or closed-minded. They would agree on the facts. That is a bird flying.

But, most importantly, by the standard and measure that it moves humanity forward and improves the quality of life.

Hmm, trying to avoid the 'beginner questions'   lol, this is fantasy, and fantasy is offering us satisfaction and knowledge so far we are capable (willing   ) to understand it's underlying structure and reasons. Like, when one studies literature, for instance, he can read texts, find out what others have said before, come, maybe, with some new ideas, write even books, maybe... but which is the reason we are having literature? Where does the pleasure we get out of it and also its morality come from? Is this maybe a kind of inertia we indulge in, because some write books, have their fantasy projections, books are well read, but in short time they step off the market and that's all. But those who are remaining on the market   have seen the birds flying where others have seen only literature. Does it make any sense?
Psychologically speaking (as Carl Jung for instance put it), the more we confront with our selves and go deep towards our unconscious (which means subjective experience and individuation), the more our perception shifts towards collective patters (which are archetypes and are collective, so objective). We develop then a kind of collective awareness, though we become very much in touch and in control of what can be called our most personal destiny.
About AP and OBE, I've never deliberately tried to have some (I'm new here, as you may see), but still, there is something...
Generally, I would rather try to get thoughtless awareness, so going beyond fantasy, not by suppressing them, but getting to the core generating them, which is beyond form. The self is beyond form. There are also different dimensions, the encounter to which would be rather tricky. But... Yea, I feel this is also related to that profound inner voice, which is the guide... Generally I used to relate mind projection to indulging into attachments, which is not exactly the spiritual path... . And I did have some experiences, but they were not enlightening, rather unimportant, one still scary, made me decide to wake up...
I had still this experience last summer, being in an art camp organized by some yogis, that is is sort of a duty to change the perspective I had upon my body and upon my freedom to move. It is 'freedom', but I wouldn't call the process to achieve it 'getting free' (neither escapism not conflict with the body seemed to me to be the name of the game, rather modifying my perception/attention of my own body and  being and through this the form of my action abilities.) I don't know if it makes any sense or if I am not off topic...
I mean, my previous experiences, which I relate to ridiculous attachments, were that I wanted to be in a particular remote place, because I wanted to be at a particular event I liked so much (a carnival, to be frank       ) or I was missing friends. So I wanted to get out of my body and travel there. Luckily it did not last long.
This summer on the contrary, distance seemed to be only the trigger to make my expand my capacities to grasp a particular understanding or to experience much subtle forms of love. ( In the latter case, distance seemed to be not physical, but a very spontaneously occurred and accepted relation form: like experiencing much more love in a pure and unconditioned sibling relation as I would have wished for or imagined even in a husband-wife relation. Distance and travel can have various significances .)
It was as if I have to be in a situation in which I am forced to make my mind not only perceive more then it would have been comfortable lol, but also to get more subtle, so that physical barriers should not stand between my being and what I have to do and be. I'm still not using it as I should, maybe, (or it's also a matter of timing?).

I feel it's good to share such subtle experiences if one feels they have brought a higher perspective in life. When these experiences shift our attention towards reality (the subtle reality) they create links of joy and understanding of the collective, abstract forms.

Ana-Maria

[Rob]

Hey Rastus:

"And of course, what others think of you matters how?"

I've thought about this. From a simple physical perspective, naa, who gives a shish kebab?? Indeed.

BUT surely there are more mystical influences? By going around annoying people you will be the reciever of their annoyance and negative energy. Might even come to influence how subconscious issues continue to arise - perhaps its not just because they are not settled internally, but also not settled externally, and so the metaphysical knives, bit rusty perhaps, but still there even after yeeeeaaaars.
I would say it also matters because if someone bears you bad feelings, then chances are you haven't acted in a way that corresponds to your highest principles, which isn't a good thing. You know what they say - takes two to tangle.......

thoughts?

Rob

[Anonymous]

Is Nay a Virgo?

[Rastus]

Iguma:

I've had this discussion before about AstralPulse.  There is great energy here.  It's just not directed anywhere in particular.  That means there's less to unlearn from 3D paradigms.  There are a number of people here representing various 'groups', conciously and otherwise, that put information out for people to reasonate with or not.

Some people choose a path that demands combat.  They want to fight.  You can find a 1000 posts that bear this out.  That is the path they choose, and it manifests for them.  The law of attraction, if want something to fight, it will show up to fight you.

If you refuse to interact with their reality, then there is no fight.  Besides, the Rule of 3 makes this so dicey anyway.  And who responds with a knife?  Love is so much easier to use, and has permanent effects.  When you realise what you truly are, there is a paradigm shift with reacting metaphysically.

And yes, I have ticked off people.  That was then, this is now.  I've learned and let go.  They can as well or stay stuck in the past.  Some people have gone through profound changes since they came here, and others haven't changed at all.  That is their choice.