The End of Days?

[wisp]

Good one, Fallnangel [] lol

[thechunk05]

In response to Fallnangel's post "Jesus said that NO ONE will know the time when this will take place. So why are some many people trying to figure out the time when Jesus said no one will know?"
There is a passage in the Bible that says "I command you to know when the time is near, even at the door" So, while we will never know the exact time, but we are to know when it is near.

[Beth]

The End of Days?  or more formally known as "Apocalypticism" and "Apocalyptic Thought" is a big topic today, as it has also been in virtually every generation since before the turn of the first millennium.  

Ideas of such a thing are found throughout the biblical prophets such as the more commonly known books of Ezekiel and Daniel, and then repeated in the NT with Revelation. But there is great deal more to this than you might suspect.  The Apostle Paul was also an apocalyptic writer and it is from this idea that most of his ideas stem.  (This is where A LOT of misunderstandings also originate, e.g., being chaste (not having sex), not marrying unless people already were, and certain other more strict prescriptions.  In Paul's day, they were expecting "the end of days" before nightfall at the earliest and within days at the very latest!!)

There are, however, many other ancient non-canonical texts that tells us of this same idea, texts such as the Books of Enoch, The Apocalypse of Abraham, and many more!  (These are the ones that speak of OBE and lucid dreaming the most!![8D])

This topic has already been brought up in another thread, but I was going to start one soon anyway!!   Amazing how the "collective mind works!"[]

My take on this, however, is going to be quite different than what has been posted so far (does that really surprise you??[],) but I will let someone else start.  How about you Mustardseed, since you thought of it too?

Remember: This should be about Apocalyptic Thought specifically. Although I know that prophecy is certainly a part of this, we already have a thread for prophecy, so let's try to contain this to "specific apocalyptic prophecies."  And, this should not become a thread where current day politics or economics is hashed out.  Okay??

Peace,
Beth

[jereome]

You know whats sad, Gandalf and others that feel that the Bible shouldn't be taken for face value, is that Im sure the same reasoning went around while Noah was preaching and building his ark.

Of course we know the outcome of that situation don't we?

Now back to the discussion, do I believe that we are in the last days? Yes we are.

Is the world going to end like some people mistakingly believe the Bible teaches? No its not.

What the end of days actually means is the end of an age. We are going from an age of sinful man ruling the world and causing pain and suffering to his fellow man to Christ actually ruling this world in a Utopian paradise where people will live by the golden rule and if they don't there will be true justice.

Lastly for those interested in the Bible for end times prophecy you should realize that Revelations is just the last book of prophecy but not the only book of prophecy in the Bible that relates to the last days.

I would suggest that if you really want to know what is gonna happen in the last days that you should also read the books of:

Danial - This book above all sets many of the symbols in the book of Revelations.

Ezekiel - Covers the battle of Armageddon, The battle of Gog / Magog where a coalition of Russian and Muslim countries try to invade Israel but are destroyed by the power of God.

Zechariah - Same as above.

If you really do a study and you pray that God will give you the meaning of this prophecy then you will see that the end times is an expansive story of a loving God that cares enough for his people that he has sent them warnings of what will transpire.

Also for the doubters out there that don't know but the EU is the beast mentioned in revelations and do you know that in its main government building there are 679 seats and only 1 seat is empty and guess what number its labeled? Bingo 666.

So a word of warning when you see that seat filled and you see a law passed that requires you to receive an electronic implant in your head or hand in order to buy or sell you better get on your knees and pray to God because your very soul is at stake.

[Colossus999]

I'm a Christian, so I believe in the bible. Somewhere in Revelations it says that the generation that witnessed the recreation of Israel as a country will not die out before the apocalypse. So basically I'm saying it will be very soon. Be prepared...

[soma-sight]

I'm a Christian, so I believe in the bible. Somewhere in Revelations it says that the generation that witnessed the recreation of Israel as a country will not die out before the apocalypse. So basically I'm saying it will be very soon. Be prepared...

Wow that is an amazing prophecy if it is true.

I will check that out.

That would mean that it is very soon.

The Second Coming that is.

[Palehorse]

I'm a Christian, so I believe in the bible. Somewhere in Revelations it says that the generation that witnessed the recreation of Israel as a country will not die out before the apocalypse. So basically I'm saying it will be very soon. Be prepared...

Wow that is an amazing prophecy if it is true.

I will check that out.

That would mean that it is very soon.

The Second Coming that is.

This idea is never explicitly stated in the NT -- it is read into it by those who  interpret Revelation through the lense of premillenial dispensationalism.  Basically, there is a lot in Revelation and in the eschatological prophecies of Jesus that revolves around the Jewish temple... but of course the slight problem with that is that there isn't one anymore.  So, in order for a futurist interpretation to work, it would have to be rebuilt... and in order for it to be rebuilt, there would have to be a Jewish state, which there is now as of the end of WW2.  Today's popular interpretation of Revelation was invented around the turn of the century and first started to gain popularity during the 20's-30's, so of course when Israel became a nation in 1948, they viewed it as "the pieces falling into place" as a sign that "the end is near."

The funny thing, to me, is that this view is most popular among people who consider themselves biblical literalists.  If they were as much into literalism as they claim, then why not take Rev. literally when it specifically states who it's addressed to: the seven churches of 1st century Asia Minor?

[Gandalf]

You know whats sad, Gandalf and others that feel that the Bible shouldn't be taken for face value, is that Im sure the same reasoning went around while Noah was preaching and building his ark.

Now this line says it all! Like Noah preaching and building his ark... mmm that *really happened*    Seriously though, I guess its up to your own belief and I respect it, but to assume as you do that the bible is a valid historical text plumbs the depths of foolishness in my opinion!

It's sad, that people like me dont 'take the bible at face value'? I beg to differ. Its called having an enquiring mind and a bit of common sense. Its not sad.. its wonderful!

As soon as it is held to be *good* to critisise people for questioning religious dogmas, you might as well move to Iran  

Also for the doubters out there that don't know but the EU is the beast mentioned in revelations and do you know that in its main government building there are 679 seats and only 1 seat is empty and guess what number its labeled? Bingo 666.


Utter, utter piffle and outright paranoia!  You have been getting your info from Holywood movies, in particular the *false* revelations quote in 'The Omen'.
I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you and that you do not have access to nuclear weapons  

Douglas

PS if anyone actually bothers to *read* revelations, it is quite clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense that the events described were assumed to occur within the lifetimes of the early christians responsible for these writings.
Trying to fit them to interprete modern scenarios is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but it doesnt stop the paranoid from trying.

Luckily the writings are so vague as to lend itself to constant reinterpretations if you put enough imagination into it. Such a style of presenting prophesies was hardly new, even before that time, cf the obscure revelations given by the oracle at Delphi, and in more recent times, the vague prophesies of Nostradamus, written so they can be adapted to any situation. Some people are so naive!

[Frank]

Well done Doug!

You see, you can always count on Doug for a nicely balanced approach. That's what makes this whole forum great, it's balance.

Yours,
Frank

[jereome]

You know whats sad, Gandalf and others that feel that the Bible shouldn't be taken for face value, is that Im sure the same reasoning went around while Noah was preaching and building his ark.

Now this line says it all! Like Noah preaching and building his ark... mmm that *really happened*    Seriously though, I guess its up to your own belief and I respect it, but to assume as you do that the bible is a valid historical text plumbs the depths of foolishness in my opinion!

It's sad, that people like me dont 'take the bible at face value'? I beg to differ. Its called having an enquiring mind and a bit of common sense. Its not sad.. its wonderful!

As soon as it is held to be *good* to critisise people for questioning religious dogmas, you might as well move to Iran  

Also for the doubters out there that don't know but the EU is the beast mentioned in revelations and do you know that in its main government building there are 679 seats and only 1 seat is empty and guess what number its labeled? Bingo 666.


Utter, utter piffle and outright paranoia!  You have been getting your info from Holywood movies, in particular the *false* revelations quote in 'The Omen'.
I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you and that you do not have access to nuclear weapons  

Douglas

PS if anyone actually bothers to *read* revelations, it is quite clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense that the events described were assumed to occur within the lifetimes of the early christians responsible for these writings.
Trying to fit them to interprete modern scenarios is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but it doesnt stop the paranoid from trying.

Luckily the writings are so vague as to lend itself to constant reinterpretations if you put enough imagination into it. Such a style of presenting prophesies was hardly new, even before that time, cf the obscure revelations given by the oracle at Delphi, and in more recent times, the vague prophesies of Nostradamus, written so they can be adapted to any situation. Some people are so naive!

Wow thank you Gandalf for resulting to personal insults by calling me paranoid, lacking common sense, foolish, naive... etc..

Personally I could care less what you think about people like me for actually trusting and following the Bible at its literal face value. If you choose not to believe then thats fine by my standards and if not believing floats your boat then enjoy your brief life but that doesnt change the fact that we are indeed in the last days.

I honestly hope though that when the time comes and that you are in the last days that you will actually be opened minded enough to realise that Bible prophecy is being fullfilled and that you would make the right decision.

Btw as far as 666 is concerned No I have never watched the OMEN nor do I put much credence in anything coming from Hollywood considering that they always mess up everything... Where I do get my information from is the EU website and those that monitor the EU.

[Gandalf]

honestly hope though that when the time comes and that you are in the last days that you will actually be opened minded enough to realise that Bible prophecy is being fullfilled and that you would make the right decision.


haha!

Whatever!

Doug

[chohan]

I'm a Christian, so I believe in the bible. Somewhere in Revelations it says that the generation that witnessed the recreation of Israel as a country will not die out before the apocalypse. So basically I'm saying it will be very soon. Be prepared...

Actually that teaching sprang from Matthew 24:33

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Modern day Israel is considered by many fundies as the "fig tree" which put forth leaves in 1948.

Personally, I tend to agree with Victor Ostrovsky... if there is a 2nd coming, he'll probably turn out to be Mossad.

[Beth]

Quote:

Revelation 13:18

This calls for wisdom. Let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of man. His number is 666. [italics, of course, are mine]

When the phrase the number of man is translated from the Greek into Semitic the result is ha-sepherah haish. Because Semitic does not employ all the vowels the actual letters involved are h-s-ph-r-h h-a-i-sh. Translating these consonants into their numerical equivalent the result is:

H5+S60+ph80+r200+h5+h5+a1+i10+sh300=666

What does this mean? That 666 is the numerical equivalent of the phrase immediately preceeding the giving of the actual numbers.
Need more proof?

The Greek word for "Beast" is therion. When this word is transliterated into Semitic we get theron or tav-yod-reish-vav-nun and when these consonants are added together with their numerical equivalents the result is the same:

th400+e10+r200+o6+n50=666

What does this mean? That 666 is also the numerical equivalent of the noun being cryptically referenced.

SO in essence,

the Greek noun "Beast"
the Semitic phrase "the number of man"
each add up to the subsequently given number of 666

This may have been some sort of riddle that actually had the answer provided right before the reader's eyes--and at the same time a language tool where whole paragraphs find cohesion through the repetitive use of certain key nouns, verbs and numbers. But...in all fairness, you have to know both Greek and Semitic language to know this, as well as how to use the literary tool called gematria.

The entire book of Revelation--just like most all of the books of the bible--are full of literary puzzles and bi-lingual constructions--all written by utilizing literary tools that the world today does not yet recognize, let alone understand.

I have said this before, but I will repeat it again, the Bible was never meant to be taken literally and the sooner we all start accepting this fact, the closer we can get to the real message of these authors--which in my opinion is no less spiritual or metaphysical in nature than traditional biblical renderings are claimed to be--and IMO it will eventually be shown that these messages are a lot more spiritual than most people expect--or want them to be--especially those people that have been taking the texts literally.

There is a lot more to this than most people realize and I wish more scholars and ministers would get with the program and talk about these things. Many of them know, at least in part, but for various reasons are just not talking...

Peace,
Beth

p.s. This also means that we really do not know when it will come...whatever it really is....but I am pretty sure it is a safe bet that it is not the EU.....