machine that does telekinesis

[beavis]

We are mostly wasting our time learning to do telekinesis or other psychic abilities. It would be A LOT more useful to figure out how these things work (instead of our intuition of them) so we could build machines to do the same. With thousands or millions of people working on it, we would have access to much more accurate info than we could get by ourselves.

They used to say you can't build a machine that can think, but today the world chess champion is a computer. It tied in the last competition, but it is twice as fast now, so it must be a better player now.

We will get nowhere if we only increase our own knowledge but nobody else's. If something exists, science can eventually understand it. Most of us know psychic things exist. We are the few with info on a new subject to science. It is up to us to translate it into scientific terms.

Those of us who are professionals in some area of science (myself included, computer software) should try to help in the design of such a machine. The most useful professionals know about physics and brains.

[Telos]

beavis, do you live in the United States? And, if so, do you get the Science Channel? Such machines already exist, and I've seen them demonstrated on very small objects, during SC specials.

There's a classic clip (they use it in their commercials) of a live black spider a few centimeters in length being levitated off the ground and held in the center of an EM field.  The spider is flailing its arms and legs like crazy, tumbling around as its practically crushed by the sheer force of magnetism.

It's totally creepy, and awesome.

Basically, the researchers assert that everything is magnetic in some way (animals, rocks, plants, plastics, bacteria, people) and that anything can be levitated with a strong enough electromagnetic field. The catch is that an EM field required to levitate an adult human for 5 seconds would cost billions of dollars, and with unknown biological effects.

[paker7]

We are mostly wasting our time learning to do telekinesis or other psychic abilities. It would be A LOT more useful to figure out how these things work (instead of our intuition of them) so we could build machines to do the same.

Nooooooooooooo !

Unrestricted access to that technology would probably destroy our civilization.  

If you haven't seen it already, go and rent a movie entitled "Forbidden Planet" with Leslie Nielsen.

[beavis]

SpectralDragon, that vague "science" only helps those who already know some about it. It does not help most.

Telos, psychic things are not caused by electromagnetism. That machine does not qualify.

paker7, probably so, but I don't care because our civilization sucks. I expect our civ will be replaced by something better.

[paker7]

paker7, our civilization sucks. Why should I care? I
expect our civ will be replaced by something better.

It's possible that after the armageddon our planet would be a big nuclear wasteland, uninhabitable and dead for many 100s of millions of years.

[Telos]

Telos, psychic things are not caused by electromagnetism. That machine does not qualify.

You sound sure of yourself. What makes you think that?

[Legend]

In part, machines is what got us into this mess in the first place.  We're losing our ability to do great things by having machines do it all for us.

We are mostly wasting our time learning to do telekinesis or other psychic abilities. It would be A LOT more useful to figure out how these things work (instead of our intuition of them) so we could build machines to do the same. With thousands or millions of people working on it, we would have access to much more accurate info than we could get by ourselves.

They used to say you can't build a machine that can think, but today the world chess champion is a computer. It tied in the last competition, but it is twice as fast now, so it must be a better player now.

We will get nowhere if we only increase our own knowledge but nobody else's. If something exists, science can eventually understand it. Most of us know psychic things exist. We are the few with info on a new subject to science. It is up to us to translate it into scientific terms.

Those of us who are professionals in some area of science (myself included, computer software) should try to help in the design of such a machine. The most useful professionals know about physics and brains.

[karnautrahl]

The future of mankind may possibly lie in the synthesis of mankind's individual and group potential with that of the best machines technology can produce. A racial symbiosis perhaps, as machines as a "life" form are only extremely young compared with mankind. Who knows where it will go next.
I agree with Legend his second point. We have to realise our own potential and not just rely on machines to explore our universe. Working in partnership with possible intelligent machines in the future centuries should not mean such mental dependence either.
Machines are young and do not as yet have physical intelligence, so fairly faulty human errors create the mess via machines .
I'm just rambling on here btw now..but you see where I'm going?

[beavis]

Telos, psychic things are not caused by electromagnetism. That machine does not qualify.

You sound sure of yourself. What makes you think that?

I've done telekinesis to paper, aluminum foil, plastic, etc. I have a big magnet (4 cubic inches). When I hold or move it near those things (as they were set up when I did tk), they didnt move. Also if it was electromagnetic, it should be a lot easier for science to measure, so science would already call it fact.

I agree with Legend his second point. We have to realise our own potential and not just rely on machines to explore our universe.

I'd like to see you bring back a rock from the moon without machines.

Working in partnership with possible intelligent machines in the future centuries should not mean such mental dependence either.

I like depending on machines for complex things. How else could I compare 2 sequences of DNA? By hand?

[Telos]

Telos, psychic things are not caused by electromagnetism. That machine does not qualify.

You sound sure of yourself. What makes you think that?

I've done telekinesis to paper, aluminum foil, plastic, etc. I have a big magnet (4 cubic inches). When I hold or move it near those things (as they were set up when I did tk), they didnt move. Also if it was electromagnetic, it should be a lot easier for science to measure, so science would already call it fact.

Fair enough!

[knucklebrain1970]

Technology really disturbs me. We are at a standstill. I'll give my examples in a minute. Technology has progressed to the point where it is no longer helping humanity, but hindering global progress, and you know I'm right, so I don't even want to hear it.  We no longer have to do things for ourselves so in essence, we've lost contact with the primary thing that is inside all of us to help us progress as a whole for the better of the planet.  Intuition and logic is gone. Instinct as well. You need this, you need that, you need this. Well, who needs what? What we all need is awareness, and that is what is lost.  Why? Technology, that's why. Ok here I go. What has technology done in the past 100 years, and I wont even get into the planet and it's suffering due to our technological "ADVANCEMENTS"

1. Data is still adhered to a metal spinning disk via magnetism, run by a motor, hence we have the HARD DISK DRIVE  

2. Automobiles are still run by an engine that runs on fossil fuels, which cause a small explosion inside a cylinder to produce torque and horsepower which is ultimately transmitted two rubber wheels which sometimes explode while going 80 mph.

3. Cancer, Aids, Cholesterol drugs? "well here folks, we have a wonderful cholesterol drug, it lowers your cholesterol, but side effects may include vomiting, diarrhea, heart attack, convulsions, seizures, abdominal pain, headaches, blindness, and basically "LACK OF ****ING LIFE"

Again  

As you can see, I'm far from impressed.

These are just a few examples. The fossil fuel thing really gets to me. This is primitive folks, and you know I'm right.  It's 2005 and the primary energy production means we have is produced by fossil fuel?

FOSSIL  <<<<<<<< FUELS

Technology is at a standstill and it's killing us. The progression is what is really killing us as there is no answer for this, we must reverse engineer our though processes and rewind and learn to function as a whole global consciousness instead of living with the three things that our killing us.

EGO
FEAR
GREED

All one in the same.


You know I'm right, admit it. We are the only species on the planet that does not function as a whole for the better of ourselves. Nature does it. Birds do it. Bugs do it.

And you say to yourself that these are insignificant life forms that have no concept of reality? These insignificant things are what we need to look at and realize that they in essence are smarter than us. Now when I speak in this tone, I'm not referring to the people on this forum per se, but people in general that are just ROBOTS, unaware of what is going on. OK, ask yourself what the definition of a robot is, here I'll give it to you.

ro·bot   Audio pronunciation of "ROBOT" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (rbt, -bt)
n.

1. A mechanical device that sometimes resembles a human and is       capable of performing a variety of often complex human tasks on command or by being programmed in advance.
2. A machine or device that operates automatically or by remote control.
3. A person who works mechanically without original thought, especially one who responds automatically to the commands of others..


SOUND FAMILIAR?

This stuff scares the hell out of me

Kevin

[Telos]

I suppose it's fitting, knucklebrain, that you say all that behind your personal computer, connected to the World Wide Web, inside of a virtual forum which facilitates the exchange of knowledge on spirituality.

And right now people in the US far away from Worcester, MA along with others from the UK, France, Australia, Romania, and Bangladesh are reading what you have to say.

Scary, isn't it?

[beavis]

Telos beat me to it.

knucklebrain1970, put your money where your mouth is. If technology is so bad, stop using it. Theres lots of third-world countries you can move to and be far from most technology.

I like building things, and if you want me to stop, too bad!

I like using things that save me more time than the time I spent to get the money to buy them.

We are the only species on the planet that does not function as a whole for the better of ourselves.

Some animals eat their babies.

And you say to yourself that these are insignificant life forms that have no concept of reality? These insignificant things are what we need to look at and realize that they in essence are smarter than us.

Thats such a cop-out. You choose some behavior that YOU like, find the dumbest species that does it, and say that species is smarter than everybody who doesnt do it. I can do it too... Rocks can sit in a pile of cocaine dust for years and never get addicted. Find me ONE human who can do that. Rocks obviously are smarter than people.


Why do you resist being similar to a robot so much? You're still Human. The robot changed what itsself is.

Technology has progressed to the point where it is no longer helping humanity, but hindering global progress, and you know I'm right, so I don't even want to hear it.

I could have let it go, but you told me that I must agree. What is this "progress" you're talking about? Progress toward what? Whatever it is, I'll be sure to take it over with my armies of giant fire-breathing robots!

[knucklebrain1970]

I knew I was going to get hammered on this one  No offense guys, it's just my point of view. Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying, or have your own opinions about it.

YOU'RE EITHER A PRODUCT OF THE MATRIX, OR YOU'RE A PRODUCT OF SELF REALIZATION


I am a product of SELF REALIZATION



Kevin

[knucklebrain1970]

"progress" you're talking about? Progress toward what?

Progress towards survival as a whole, like nature, not individualistic progress fueled by greed. Do you understand that? The main fact is that the people that are running the world are Egotists. When your internal reference point is your ego and not your true-self, your BROKED.

Tell me that does not make sense. I guess perhaps that this is the Wong section for this stuff, you guys are very hard wired aren't you?

BTW this discussion is all in good fun. No offense to anyone. Maybe I'm insane, so be it. Oh and BTW, I'm liquidating all my assets and I'm moving to the hills within a few years.


Kevin

[Telos]

What has technology done in the past 100 years, and I wont even get into the planet and it's suffering due to our technological "ADVANCEMENTS"

1. Data is still adhered to a metal spinning disk via magnetism, run by a motor, hence we have the HARD DISK DRIVE  

Kevin

Kevin, I don't understand what you mean by this. You mean we were storing data magnetically on spinning metal disks 100 years ago? I doubt it, because the first computer to use a hard disk as standard was an IBM in 1955, (50 years ago).

And the efficiency of hard drives doubles every 18 months - using less material, and less waste. They're also cheaper, allowing people such as yourself to own them. They're also faster and more reliant... That's not progress?

[sweetbliss]

Hello from a Romanian WWW freak!  

Of course that knucklebrain is not far from reality when criticizing the addiction on technology, but interesting about the Matrix...

In the 'Matrix' movie the Matrix, that Lady, is the one initiating them into self realization. (I suppose that everybody has seen tho movie   ...?). The matrix is what Hindus call Maya, or Mahamaya, the Goddess or the illusory power of God, which is the Creatrix of the Universe and which also grants self realization.
It's the same like: this world is a mere illusion, a shadow, but there must be a reason why we are in it. If we just leave it   this will not grant self realization, it would be a waste of chances...

By the way, I've seen my brother and cousins so much inspired after watching this movie. If you take into account how much spirituality and philosophy at least part two contains, and also the masses watching it, you will agree that not the best University professor or writer could have such an influence on so many people and rise their conscience. Of course, a few spiritual masters could, but you see, even in the movie industry it is possible. The point would be, for me, do watch what they unaware call reality and see that it is a mere shadow, that accept the actual reality (what 'truly is'), let the attention be enlightened, then spread it.
Through material means, too. From the perspective of the realized truth, even words or speech are shallow, a non-existing virtuality; and still, there were a few enlightened artists and saints who have given spectacular works which are the evidence of what 'truly is'.  

If I have the photograph of an enlightened person, emitting spiritual vibrations and can meditate any time and anywhere I desire, getting better results that in seclusion in a monastery or on a mountain, could this imply that the photograph is a gift God gave to us, to increase our capacity to grow spiritually? For me this is, no doubt, a fact.

Telos, I really desire such a place, like online meditation. There are a few, maybe (not that I'm using), but when this be used in a proper effective way, it will be a true revolution of conscience. As discussions about spirituality indeed, it is amazing to have such forums. I have nice intelligent yogi friends. Then what makes me sit for hours in front of my computer, read and write messages? There must be something necessary for my growth, because I feel that it is being improved, because of the collective...

But I trust rather the development and enlightenment of the collective conscience, then machines being something else then our instruments. At a particular point in time (if we are nice people and do our meditations, live our lives in a spontaneous normalcy and refrain from totally destroying the Earth   ) equipments will just drop off lol and we'll enjoy the unrestricted collective awareness.  

I work in a computer department (I studied literature, I'm only a translator there), and when my colleagues bother me too much with the importance of their work, I can't stop myself from explaining them that my addiction     to computers and Internet in not the fruit of programmer skills, but an effect of my need to be in permanent contact will my friends.
I'm not sure that they understand it all the time. Or 'understand' most possible, 'hear' not really... lol

Actually the contradiction is not so great, as I see this.

Ana-Maria

[sweetbliss]

We are mostly wasting our time learning to do telekinesis or other psychic abilities. It would be A LOT more useful to figure out how these things work (instead of our intuition of them) so we could build machines to do the same. With thousands or millions of people working on it, we would have access to much more accurate info than we could get by ourselves.

Most of the people don't have the perfect relationship or will not reach that higher emotion of love they would expect from their parents, partner, kids, frinds...
Still, I haven't heard of the idea of creating some machines to send them love or be friendly in their place, in order to get higher...    

Sorry for this humor.  

Basically these phenomena like telekinesis are side effects of self realization process. They can appear or not. Some people are very advanced in the experience of self realization, but will not use too much of their energy in such powers. Sometime they can be necessary though...

But we can't make the machines get the awakening in our place!

[knucklebrain1970]

I hear you guys. I am just disgusted by the fact that we can get to Mars, but every couple of years all my data on my hard drive goes kaput, basically because it is run by a motor. I set myself up for failure anyhow succumbing to the evils   of technology in the first place. I realize we've made advancements, but what I'm saying is that I'm not the least bit impressed by the time scale involved. I would have thought things would be a lot better by now. But what is better anyhow? We are progressing ahead and losing contact. You have to admit that is true. We no longer have to do anything basically. There is no creativity anymore. There is no time to stand still in amazement of watching nature, and in the name of technology, we are killing ourselves and our environment. Hey, I'm as guilty as the rest. I made endless money in the .com days as an Oracle DBA and lived a life fueled by greed and now I make 1/3 of what I use to and I'm paying for my ego. It all makes sense to me now and that's what I'm upset about. By listening to society, and what is "right" for me and basing my perception of myself on how I think others perceive me, getting into the stupidity of who's got the shinier rims on their car, me or the guy across the street, well what this has done is altered my thought process. Thoughts are energy and perceptions of life affect our thoughts and our beliefs are shaped upon what we are exposed to. The end result of this all is disconnectedness from the inner-self. Most of the struggle for me is that I feel there are basically 2 of me, my physical brain and my true-self (mind, spirit) or whatever you might want to call it. I am disconnected, asleep, like most of the planet. A quick fix of Prozac in order and I'm all set right? This is where it's all gone wrong. People don't understand what I'm saying though. In nature there is species consciousness. Humans have lost this, and I believe it is essential for the survival of the planet. Why has it been lost? Because we no longer reflect upon the big picture and what is really necessary. Am I happy with all the SH*T I've bought over the past 10 years? No, it's meaningless. Feeling disconnected from my true self is something that no amount of STUFF can fix. This is what I'm getting at. Does it make sense? Why are so many people buying and buying and buying and then the question mark comes up and they (myself included) ask why we aren't happy.  My goal is dimensional consciousness and I've hindered this progress. We all have. Society's rules and our upbringing is to blame. But it was thought to be in our best interest so there really was no ill intent. This is just what we have to deal with, especially as spiritual people. Most of my friends, 1/2 of which I have disconnected from on purpose still believe that when your dead, your dead and that's it. So life as it is is fine for them. They don't need answers. I do, and now I realize that everything I've done in my life has hindered this progress. So now I have to go though probably what is years of thought re engineering to get where I want to be, plausible perhaps, perhaps not. I however can not accept non existence, nor can I stand any longer the feeling of disconnectedness. Does this make any sense to you guys, or am I just nuts. This stuff makes complete sense to me, but perhaps it is me that is not sensible at all
On goes the battle.

Your friend,

Kevin

[Telos]

I hadn't realized you were a programmer! That puts things into perspective. Sorry, I really should check people's profiles more often.

No, you make perfect sense. The market has been real heavy on the demand for left-brain skills for the growth of technology and efficiency. But there's hope. All those industries have gained enough momentum to the point where it's evident that one side of the brain is not enough, and the market will demand right-brain skills as well... empathy, creativity, conscience, and emotional centricity. And that demand will be satsified.

[knucklebrain1970]

Yeah, well I don't program, I'm a database administrator. Keep the piece of s**t compilation of crappy software running. Out of all jobs I've ever had, it's the most depressing, boring, tedious, mundane thing there is. Money is good, but F money. If your miserable like me, because of work, it's tough to find happiness in life. I'm so miserable because of work it ain't funny, and there's no way out. I have to make 70k a year or my ship sinks. It's a greed, ego filled rut I've created and the only way out is death. It is my dream to get out of IT (info technology) that is. I can't stand it. I can't stand the corporate environment and all the God Damn robots that are just lifeless shells and poor excuses for human beings, lacking love and compassion and their only goal/hobby in life is work. I am trying to love all, but that's my toughest barrier, working around robots that is. It takes me all my mental strength not to hate them. Well enough of my complaining, it's my mess and my world. Someday it will end and hopefully I wont be back.

Your friend,

Kevin (the UN-robot)

[sweetbliss]

Hey, don't be so upset, Kevin!
You'll fix this one, too!  

There are better solutions than death, be sure. Even the solution suggested here, about going to a third world country     could be taken into account, if the situation becomes so hard to bear. It is such a difference between living at different levels of "civilization"   . I felt once this difference very much between Romania and Germany, though in the last it is much easy to live, I could more easily keep the attention on more subtle thing home. And an Indian friend told me that she felt the same difference between India and Romania. Though here one has to work the whole day to survive, even have two jobs, whereas in the materially developed countries one can live decently with a part time. So take the 3rd world only as the last solution!  

But my experience is that you can deal with meditation and even enlightenment in the middle of a modern city, if you give yourself a chance.

Ana-Maria

[beavis]

I'd hate to be a database admin. ugh! I'm almost out of college for computer programming. I'll probably have to work at normal companies for many years. Of all the common jobs, I'd hate that the least. But heres the best possible job I can imagine (when they get to be large enough to hire more)...
http://www.singinst.org/action/seed-ai-programmer.html

[Psan]

I feel this thread got derailed a bit, so I'm bringing it back on tracks.

To create a telekinetic device, one must know what moves something, when you are having a thought of moving it in your mind. I mean, how this mental intension in translated into a physical effect.

Once we know the reason, we can try to create a machine which will be programmed to move something on press of a button or a verbal command. (A telekinetic Joystick)

We can also create a device to pick up the thought, amplify it, send it to something and move it.

Looks like too far fetched.... but its a start

[GhostRider]

paker7, our civilization sucks. Why should I care? I
expect our civ will be replaced by something better.

It's possible that after the armageddon our planet would be a big nuclear wasteland, uninhabitable and dead for many 100s of millions of years.

Then what's the point of remaining an ex-smoker?