Hatred

[XenXheng]

Just now, I was playing an online game with many thousands of other players.  Seeing a member of the opposite team, I "waved" to let him know I was friendly.  He promptly killed me.

Seconds later the chat channel was in an uproar.  A character had stalked another character for the sole purpose of stealing something from him.  Afterwards, in an utterly unrepentant line of dialogue, the person who had stolen from the other responded, when asked why he did it, "Because it was funny."

At that moment, I remembered many other incidents of pointless murder and grief from the game, people who made it their sole mission to cause misery to other players.

I then remembered other online incidents outside of the game, where people were made fools of and publicly ridiculed and humiliated, while the perpetrators congratulated themselves on a job well done, and basked in the glow of their burgeoning fanbase.

I remembered facets of my own family, how my father had family-hopped himself to several different women and had seen no repurcussions from his behavior other than moving to a new city after each planned divorce.  The only ones to suffer from his actions have been my mother and siblings.

I remembered how my sister and I were almost attacked by a van full of screaming men as they shouted obscenities at us and we bolted for the safety of a 7-11.

I remembered the many news incidents of widespread murder in the millions of those in Africa, the hundreds of thousands under Saddam in Iraq and the whole of the middle east, case after case of killing, rape and other heinous crimes happening in our own country, and wonder at just how many stories I have never even heard of in other countries.

I had never felt as physically nauseated with humanity as I did at that moment.

I truly believe the way to change the world is to change the self.  But when the whole world seems to be crumbling around you through the uncaring acts of those who manipulate, take advantage of and hurt others... I had to ask myself then, what exactly is changing myself doing for the world?  If anything, I've experienced more hatred since I've tried to be good to other people.

What is going on?  Can't people realize that others bleed and cry the same as they do?  Can't they understand how connected we all truly are, on not just a spiritual sense but a physical one as well?

What am I supposed to do in the face of all this?  Changing myself has done nothing for any of the perpetrators of this hatred, fear and selfishness... it seems to have done nothing at all.

What am I supposed to do?

[CaCoDeMoN]

I think that Franz Kafka's  book "The trial" would be a good explanation...

[halfphased]

By changing yourself, there is one less person producing negativity in the world.  You will no longer be falling into delusions of this illusionary world.  Instead of responding with anger towards someone you will respond with unconditional love.  You will break the viscous cycle and let them go on in peace instead of throwing back more negativity at them.  In this way you will have an effect upon all of creation, because all of your actions and thoughts will originate in and produce nothing but unconditional love.  

You can not change anyone else.  You can only change your perception of them and how you react or respond towards them.  They must choose to change on their own and if they are supported by an environment of unconditional love then it will make it a little easier for them to do that.

[CaCoDeMoN]

You can not change anyone else. You can only change your perception of them and how you react or respond towards them. They must choose to change on their own and if they are supported by an environment of unconditional love then it will make it a little easier for them to do that.

Revenge is the best way you can teach people. Of course only if they are weaker than you...

[alexd]

That makes some sense in the fact that when people are so oblivious of their actions putting them through their own oversights is the only way to bring the fault into their awareness.

This is the easy way though, and ultimately we should aim to act with sincerity to make space within people for the realization of fault to be brought to light within them. Unfortunately in reality this is not always the case.


Alex

[Frank]

XenXheng:

Hearing you think is about where I was in the 1970's. It's your awareness that is widening. You are learning what compassion is. It's quite a rare quality but it's one of those emotions that fortunately is getting more popular. I think in the old religious texts they talked about forgiveness.

Well, it is not so much forgiving someone, but it's about understanding Self and where each person is at in the general scheme of things. They may hate you but you can't hate them back. Because you understand why they do what they do, and all that. You might not necessarily agree, and there can of course be disagreement, but there is no harmful emotional involvement.

In other words, we can all agree to disgree and respect each other's differences. That way we can progressively come together rather than developing ever more powerful weapons to blow us apart.

Yours,
Frank

[CaCoDeMoN]

Hearing you think is about where I was in the 1970's. It's your awareness that is widening. You are learning what compassion is. It's quite a rare quality but it's one of those emotions that fortunately is getting more popular. I think in the old religious texts they talked about forgiveness.

Well, it is not so much forgiving someone, but it's about understanding Self and where each person is at in the general scheme of things. They may hate you but you can't hate them back. Because you understand why they do what they do, and all that. You might not necessarily agree, and there can of course be disagreement, but there is no harmful emotional involvement.

In other words, we can all agree to disgree and respect each other's differences. That way we can progressively come together rather than developing ever more powerful weapons to blow us apart.

I would agree on this, but it's important to know that hate and revenge are two dfferent things. Hate has no purpose, revenge can be used to teach the person to think before attacking...

[daidaluz]

I truly believe the way to change the world is to change the self.  But when the whole world seems to be crumbling around you through the uncaring acts of those who manipulate, take advantage of and hurt others... I had to ask myself then, what exactly is changing myself doing for the world?  If anything, I've experienced more hatred since I've tried to be good to other people.

The way I see  spirituality is not just as a concept to be carried inside.  There are many ways that evolution goes around the world and "Sophistication" is a natural consequence.

 I remember  those stories about the little child who use to believe that there parents were bad or mad at him (and the child was hurt); but when he grew up he realize that they were just normal people living and learning as any Mature person does.

Personally I think that every single situation , action, opinion, etc. has many different interpretations and every interpretation can become a reality for you or anybody else.  The more experienced you are about this, the more sophisticate you become in life.   Of course there are people who use their abilities to satisfy their ego not taking care about others, but the point is,  how do you deal with reality and what would be your contribution to the world you live in as a spiritually mature person.

[Tom]

It takes time for the changes made on the inside to appear externally. There is a lot more inertia out there to work against. When the outside catches up with what you do on the inside then your experience will be more consistent.

[Nostic]

Hearing you think is about where I was in the 1970's. It's your awareness that is widening. You are learning what compassion is. It's quite a rare quality but it's one of those emotions that fortunately is getting more popular. I think in the old religious texts they talked about forgiveness.

Well, it is not so much forgiving someone, but it's about understanding Self and where each person is at in the general scheme of things. They may hate you but you can't hate them back. Because you understand why they do what they do, and all that. You might not necessarily agree, and there can of course be disagreement, but there is no harmful emotional involvement.

In other words, we can all agree to disgree and respect each other's differences. That way we can progressively come together rather than developing ever more powerful weapons to blow us apart.

I would agree on this, but it's important to know that hate and revenge are two dfferent things. Hate has no purpose, revenge can be used to teach the person to think before attacking...

Seriously, do you even think before you post? Are you an adult?
Do you honestly believe such juvenile logic? Oh, revenge has a purpose, so it must be OK. Slavery also has a purpose. Concentration camps had a purpose. Wars all have purposes.

People can justify all kinds of warped behavior based on the premise of teaching someone a lesson.
What happens when you seek revenge? In all likelihood, the other person will want to reciprocate. Then it goes on and on into infinity, back and forth. Through the ages, this has been the sad story of humanity. It leads to nothing but destruction and chaos.

[XenXheng]

Thank you for the responses.

The real problem I have is other people suffering, not myself.  I don't care if someone punches me for no reason or steals from me, quite half as much as when it happens to others.

I played the game again last night, and have a new response for these kinds of things, the same response I will have whenever something like this happens.

Rather than question the thief as to why he stole or anything like that, I will instead take it upon myself to help the person afflicted.  Rather than be upset and publicly yell at the thief (to the amusement of everyone else), I'll try and help the robbed one in getting that stolen thing again, from another source.

I just want it to go on record that despite knowing that pain is a teacher, I still don't like any of it when I see it.  If I could take the world's pain away by feeling it for every individual person, one at a time, I would gladly do it.  I love myself, but I love others more, and seeing them suffer causes me to hurt as well.

If only I could take the pain, but let them still learn the lesson, I would.

[CaCoDeMoN]

Seriously, do you even think before you post? Are you an adult?
Do you honestly believe such juvenile logic? Oh, revenge has a purpose, so it must be OK. Slavery also has a purpose. Concentration camps had a purpose. Wars all have purposes.

People can justify all kinds of warped behavior based on the premise of teaching someone a lesson.
What happens when you seek revenge? In all likelihood, the other person will want to reciprocate. Then it goes on and on into infinity, back and forth. Through the ages, this has been the sad story of humanity. It leads to nothing but destruction and chaos.

I am an adult, and I think before I post. I truly believe in what I say, it's based on my experience. What has personal revenge to do with concentration camps and slavery? or wars? There's no logic in this at all.
There are people that will not learn anything, if they will not get beaten, and forgiveness in not always the best choice. And I am not talking about justifying something with revenge, but responding to an attack with attack.

[You]

I think what CaCo means is that revenge can have unselfish ends as well. If you stop a guy from hurting others, you are doing the world a service, it doesn't hurt to enjoy it.

[Nostic]

I think what CaCo means is that revenge can have unselfish ends as well. If you stop a guy from hurting others, you are doing the world a service, it doesn't hurt to enjoy it.

There is a big difference between what you might call justice and seeking revenge. Perhaps it's a problem with CC's English? I don't know. But revenge is an endless cycle. It implies the petty behavior of a dull mind.

[beavis]

"Because it was funny" is not "because I hate him". It might be neutral, but probably not negative.

[CaCoDeMoN]

I think what CaCo means is that revenge can have unselfish ends as well. If you stop a guy from hurting others, you are doing the world a service, it doesn't hurt to enjoy it.

You are right, but I do not really enjoy revenge(of course if I have to hurt someone, otherwise it can be funny), I just like to see when a person who attacked and beaten people on the streets doesn't do it anymore.

[You]

I enjoy revenge fantasies, normally what I would like to do to people doesn't coincide with what I'll allow myself to do to them, which always coincides with what the law allows me to do to them.

[beavis]

I always obey the law too

[Cheyyne]

I do my best not to think about all the suffering in the world. Not because it makes it go away, and not because I don't care about it. The exact opposite is true; should I concern myself with what the rest of the world is doing, I would never have any time for my own spiritual quest. Add in the fact that most people could care less about their immortal soul, that pesky "freewill" thing, and differing views on the exact definitions of "good," "evil," and "culturally proper," and you've got a recipe for a big mess you can't do a damn thing about. Just because you send love doesn't mean the person will receive it with open arms, as we see all too often in reality.

Concern yourself with raising your own consciousness, and the consciousness of those who will listen to wisdom. This does not mean that you must ignore the suffering in the world around you; you simply must accept that if you concern yourself with the problems of The World, you will be consumed, because you cannot possibly hope to take the weight of the world on your shoulders.

Bite off only what you know you can chew, and accept that the universe will go on.

What happens when you seek revenge? In all likelihood, the other person will want to reciprocate. Then it goes on and on into infinity, back and forth. Through the ages, this has been the sad story of humanity. It leads to nothing but destruction and chaos.

The act of revenge and the act of self defence are often remarkably similar. If someone attacks you, should you go up to them and give them a hug? They will finish the job at that point, if they're out to get you. Revenge is also based in self defence. Get them before they get you. By trying to take your freedom from your life, they've given up their right to their own freedom. Destroy them before they destroy you. This is not a statement based in hatred; it's a statement based on common sense. It can't be usurped by cushy ideals.

[Nostic]

What happens when you seek revenge? In all likelihood, the other person will want to reciprocate. Then it goes on and on into infinity, back and forth. Through the ages, this has been the sad story of humanity. It leads to nothing but destruction and chaos.

The act of revenge and the act of self defence are often remarkably similar. If someone attacks you, should you go up to them and give them a hug? They will finish the job at that point, if they're out to get you. Revenge is also based in self defence. Get them before they get you. By trying to take your freedom from your life, they've given up their right to their own freedom. Destroy them before they destroy you. This is not a statement based in hatred; it's a statement based on common sense. It can't be usurped by cushy ideals.

Oh please, that's not even worthy of an argument. If someone is actively attacking you, do what you must. That's totally different than sitting down and planning-out how you're going to get back at someone, and then actually going through with it. But you knew that already, didn't you?  

[Tom]

I think the point of this thread was that it would be better not to have to even experience so much negativity in the environment. I don't think it was about how to better respond to it when it appears.

[CaCoDeMoN]

I think the point of this thread was that it would be better not to have to even experience so much negativity in the environment. I don't think it was about how to better respond to it when it appears.

Negativity in the enviroment is not a big problem. I have noticed that most of problems are caused by negative thoughts that are repeating after negative incident. By stopping those thoughts it is possible to nearly eliminate negativity from one's life...