Is this an OBE, scared the living hell out of me

[knucklebrain1970]

Hi all, I've had several problems with teeth over the years and till I found this place, I always thought this experience I've had several times was whacked out beyond words. So due to the tooth problems, I've been on Vicodins here and there. I don't OD on the things either, just regular dosage and whenever I'm on these things and go to sleep this weird thing happens, which I think is the beginning of an OBE. For me however it is not a pleasant experience at all. It feels like DEATH. Now it's not like I'm buzzed out of my mind and imagining this either. This is real. I'll describe. It usually starts off with a buzzing in my ears, then a pressure, then a sort of helicopter noise and a feeling of going further if you will and as I go further the pressure increases and I feel that if I continue, I will die. I am paralyzed all the while this is happening and it seems like it takes every ounce of strength to come out of this state. It usually happens while I'm lying on my stomach, but last night I was on my side, my Siamese cat (King) snuggled up against me. Last night was the strongest it's ever been.  and it scared the hell out of me, I almost couldn't pull out of it until I yelled out my cats name "KING" as if he'd hear me (although it wasn't out loud but in my mind) and I seem to think he helped me. I know it sounds nuts, but I have a strong feeling that he helped me. Is this nuts? Do you think this was the beginning of an OBE? It is not a pleasant feeling by any means. My stomach feels weird when I come out of it, sort of feels like its up in my chest as well, although I do have acid reflux which I take meds for, but my fear is that if I continue when it's happening, I'm going to have a stroke or heart attack. the pressure and the increasing buzzing and vibrations in my body scare the hell out of me? What if I do go to the end, so to speak? What if my soul separates from my body and I don't come back? Well obviously I'll be dead. I'm confused as to whether what is happening is an OBE or some physical problem? Any guidance,  or info is appreciated.

Kevin

[cobalt]

Sounds very similar to:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16598
..may i ask what ar you using to get in this state...?

[knucklebrain1970]

I'm not using anything.  It happens more easily when I'm on vicodins, although it's not like I'm buzzed out of my head, I took 2 in the morning because I had gum surgery last week. They keep me up all night if I take them at night, so I don't take them at night. This is not a buzz thing by the way, this is real as it gets. It's just for some reason more easily obtainable when I have them in my system for some reason. It's pretty much automatic. Soon as I lie down, couple minutes pass then? BAM it starts.
I pull out, wake up in a sweat, heart pounding. Lie down? Starts again pretty much instantly. It sort of happens when your in that Ahhhh..........type of state. In between fully awake and fully asleep. That good state where your like "I love sleep"
Last night though it happened like 10 times, and since I'm afraid to go all the way, I finally got up and played my guitar for 3 hours because I was scared to go back to sleep. It was very strong the last time, like someone just wanted to rip my soul out, it was not pleasant by any means, that's when I felt a feeling that the cat could help me, as stupid as it may sound, I felt a connection with him and I was so far gone into the void if you will that I felt I passed the point of no return and all I could do was wiggle my foot slightly, I could not muster up the mental energy to pull out of it, so that's when I subconsciously yelled his name and awoke. He was looking at me strange too, like "WTF you worried about"
Well this stuff is real, whether it's the start of an OBE? I don't know, my wife reads Sylvia Brown books and says my description is the beginning of an OBE to a T, but I haven't researched it enough and there isn't much I've found on here as to the symptoms of OBE, like what it feels like leading up to it. I will look more though.

Kevin

[cobalt]

http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/guide.html read the fear section
I guess its the same for me, big fear, and then you wake up with your heart beatingfaster than ever  : )))))

Afther that you think, excrement, why i didnt used this chance, next time ill suppres my fear ...

[BahBoon]

Hey dude. I remember when that happened to me. It scared the crap out of me, all i can say is : get used to it, because its going to happen a lot more to you now. The more you think about it the more it will happen, but you'll get used to it and eventually not be scared. I first had it like you described - except i was trying to get up and the more i tried the more my body double was rising. *Sigh* I had no control over my physical - i was rising but i think it was my etheral body because everything was pretty real, but a little blurry and hard to move kind of like moving threw snow. I also heard the noise, but to me it sounds more like a lawn mower or a tire caught in the snow.  

But, i get it naturally, kind of - I think it was triggered by the first sleep paralysis i had. Ever since then i started having these strange things happen in my sleep. I've had more dreams where I'm trying to OBE in the dream - then end up in the state you described. One thing though did you open your eyes? I had one of these episodes earlier this morning. And noticed everything was shaking or it could of been tearing. Oh and i don't try to have OBE's either. Be happy, most people would kill to have a gift like this where you can get to such a strong state without trying.

PS. Welcome to the wierdo club.  

[knucklebrain1970]

Thanks man. It's weird, I don't even try. I have no clue what I'm doing. But as I said, the vibrating, pressure in the chest, racing heart and whatnot I DO NOT LIKE. I can't handle it. I have a fear of DEATH. I fear it and that is probably why this is happening for some weird reason. I don't think I've opened my eyes, I can't move anything hardly when this happens. It takes a marine effort to come out of it. Last night was the worst ever. I felt as if some external force was trying to rip my soul out of my body. It was so intense, I couldn't handle it. I hope I don't develop a fear of sleep because of this. I feel this state right now as I type. I feel different and notice I'm in sort of a haze since last night. I feel as though if I shut my eyes right here at work it would start. Is this really a good thing? What good can this OBE stuff be? Is this really my spirit itself leaving my body? Or my Estheric (sp?) body? I don't understand 1/2 the stuff everyone talks about in here. I'm definitely a beginner and don't even know if I want to further this. My primary goal in life is to get out of computer (high tech) and be able to heal people. I am able to harness energy in my hands and I've cured my wife's agonizing flat feet, but I don't know where to go with this OBE stuff and why this is happening. It's happened for years, I just never let go completely. I'm afraid I'm going to phucking die. It's the heart racing and the pressure in the chest and stomach I don't like. I don't like anything that makes my heart race other than sex or exercise.

Kevin

[California]

Hi Knucklebrain,

It's a great thing that you have found this forum. I am one, and there are certainly others here that have been exactly where you are. You are not alone, and I do not believe you are in danger!

I went through the same fear over 20 years ago, and at that time it was not so easy to find information as it is today.

Today, if I have any regrets about this experience, it is that I did not wholeheartedly embrace what I have come to believe is a great gift!

My first day home after a grueling finals week, at the end of my freshman year at university, I awoke in the middle of the night utterly paralyzed, with massive energy running through my body, a giant roaring in my head. I truly thought I was dying! Frantic, terrified, and with no access to my body, feeling like a giant electro-magnet being crushed by it's own force, I desperately focused all of my will on trying to utter a single sound, any sound at all...

This effort brought me control of my body: I was able to move a finger, ever so slightly. I continued to fight but kept being pulled back. Was I dying?! With a supreme effort I was finally able to regain control of the body but had to get up and move around to avoid going back into that hell.

It continued to happen and I did my best to read and find out what was going on. Of course, my doctor and my parents had no idea what it was and tried to minimize it which was less than helpful. They had no idea of the immense intensity of these sensations!

Having said that, I can tell you today, with absolute sincerity, that I came to believe this phenomena was and is a great gift! I learned to go into the experience and have found it life-altering in a profoundly positive way.

I don't want to say too much because I am no expert, but it is my wholehearted opinion that you HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR!

I am new to this forum and new to the work of Robert Bruce, but I am finding it very helpful, and you may as well. I have found it astounding and energizing to discover the experiences of others which are so similar to my own. I would suggest that you take a look at http://www.astraldynamics.com/ where Robert Bruce addresses very specifically your concerns about the racing heart an provides a great wealth of information.

You may find that your painkillers are directly related to your experiences because they induce physical relaxation.

You may find that sleeping on your side will prevent the vibrations from initiating when they are unwelcome. This has been true for me others I have read about.

It is my sincere hope that you will be able to explore this area further and grow from you experiences.

[BahBoon]

Knuckle to be honest, you have no real choice but to follow it. If you ignore it it will get worse. You have to face your fears - Read more on it. You have NO choice. Sorry dude. But this is the type of stuff you really can't control and if you try to control it it just gets worse. All your symptoms are pretty common although mines are different. I hear sounds, see lightning and multi-colors (Sometimes, this is usually when I'm "Astral projecting") but I don't feel pressure, or my heart beating. The first time it happened i did feel like I was going to die, who wouldn't? If you know nothing about this subject its just natural for your mind to react to it in a death' matter. The second time it happened i felt it much stronger, i felt pretty horrible too. I was actually able to move my feet against the wall and tried using my feet to push the rest of my body out of this state. Although i woke up in the position i went to bed in i still think it was my etheral body, its known that when you project to the RTZ that things will be sluggish and slow and will almost feel like your paralyzed. Especially if you didn't know what was happening like me.

A lot of times when this happens especially with the Multi-colored like tunnel i know I'm going to Astral project. And its extremely easy for me to come out my body. I just float out.

Good luck.  

[knucklebrain1970]

Thanks for the insight guys/girls. It seems that this happens more often than not when I'm on pain meds. One of the reasons I think this is true is this. When most people take a Vicodin, they fall asleep, konked, dead to the world, out. When I take one, I sort of hover in the "AAHHHH" state, not asleep, not fully awake. I find it difficult to fully fall asleep on these things which I take when I have mouth surgery (getting about 10 implants).

It has happened without pills though as well. I usually take some melatonin before bed as well, but empty out more than 1/2 of the 3mg capsule. 3mg is too much for me.  As for the heart pounding, I think it's just because I'm scared and I don't know what is happening. I have a fear of death and a fear of the unknown. The hardest thing there is for me is letting go of this fear. This fear is mostly due to not wanting to be without loved ones. You could say I have a bit of codependency going on, but not on an absurd level mind you.

Kevin

[cobalt]

What pills exactly are you taking(what are they called)?
..and to others, could it be good/bad to try out?

btw, for realtimechat ther still is irc server: irc.webmaster.com #astralchat
and that java chat(~500kb) i set up at  http://tesla.eclub.lv/ (it may ask for certificate, i hadnt time to set that up yet, but no ones chatting..so there is no need)

ps: somethin iswrong with my spacebarso im writing quite bad...

[knucklebrain1970]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Could you perhaps rephrase that?

Kevin

[Targett]

kevin you dont know how close you are to having an obe

[knucklebrain1970]

Kevin you don't know how close you are to having an obe

Well unfortunately I can't take vicodins forever so I have no idea how to get sleep paralysis without the vicodins. Like I said, I've had probably 20 prescriptions over the years, I'm 34 now, but I've had lots of injuries and whatnot, mountain biking, hernia, broken bones. Every time I've ever had any opiate substance, this induces the sleep paralysis state and the vibrations start. The other night was the strongest it's ever been. So out of probably this happening about 100 or more times in my life, until recently it scared the hell out of me and I did not realize what it was. Until now
And now that I know what it is, it scares me less, but still scares me. However I can't take vicodins forever so the paralysis and vibrations will stop once again till the next time I have mouth surgery or break a bone. I simply have never been in the pre OBE state without an opioid type narcotic. Would I like to know how to without taking pills? Yes, but out of the 500,000 methods, I don't know where to begin. Also I don't take vicodins to have OBE's, I have no clue what I'm doing. I didn't ask for it, it's a side effect of the drug. Would I like to learn more about OBE and how I can obtain the same state straight? Yes. My problem is is this. I either fall dead asleep, or lay awake for hours. I simply do not enter the proper in between state easily. I wish I knew how, but I don't. Any advice is appreciated.

Kevin

[Targett]

ive got into the sleeping payalysis state every day for the past 5 days now and what seems to work for me is being really tired

ill go to sleep about 12 o clock then wake up at 5am so ive only had 5 hrs sleep and im still tired. I stay awake for about half an hour, then i go into our shrine room and use the holosync for a hour. After i come out of the holosync trance i just lie there and drift off again and usually within about 10 min max ill be paralysed. Then all i do then is relax even more and let that feeling pull me out of my body, then i start to feel like im floating.

The paralysis bit works without any troubles, i dont think the holosync is nececerry. If u want, say if u wake up at 5 instead of using the holosync for 1 hr just drift off to sleep again and have an alarm set to wake u up after 1 hour, then after you wake up for the second time just allow yourself to drift off again. It should work

Just remember you gotta be over tired, i think one of the main reasons people dont get into paralysis state as they get older is because they get them selves into a set sleeping routine and they rarely find themselves tired enough to be able to do it as young people who are always having late nights.

[cobalt]

Sometimes when i go to gym and when im so tired that i walk i were drunk, if i dont fall asleep i always get vibrations(but only whenim very tired, if i still can do anything else than sleep after that, it wont work)

[knucklebrain1970]

Guys/Ladies, I was thinking. What is the possibility that what I'm experiencing is a seizure and not an OBE? Opiate Narcotics have been known to cause seizures in some people. But then again, why would it happen only sleeping. Any thoughts?

Kevin

[Zante]

I know this is an old topic and that I may be breaking some rule by bumping :)

Right now all I'm feeling is a hint of envy mind you ;p

As for depending on medication to achieve this state, my initial reaction is that it's not good for the reason that as knucklebrain states, he isn't in full control. After all, aren't these exit sensations he's describing?

Trance -> Dream State or-->(Manual Override)--> RTZ/Lucid Dream/Other Plain  

Slap me with a fish if I'm wrong :) I willingly confess my ignorance before all of you :P

[-lines-]

Just have to add this in. A bunch of people who get SP have these vibrations/electricity running through them, another forum I frequent that deals with SP and other sleep disorders has this effect mentioned sometimes. Although I have no way to tell if it would be seizure or not, it seems to be common and is most likely not seizures. If you are still worried about it, talk to your doctor if they were the one to prescribe the drug. If they don't know much about it or if they don't know of SP, then try to take your question elsewhere.

[Zante]

Lines, what is that other forum you were talking about?

It sounds interesting.

[knucklebrain1970]

Well first it's not a seizure. How do I know this? Well my wife sleeps with me. As for asking the doctor about it? Well I'd have better luck asking my dog what's going on. However I can not progress past the paralysis state due to fear issues. I'm just not ready yet.

Kevin

[mactombs]

Well first it's not a seizure. How do I know this? Well my wife sleeps with me. As for asking the doctor about it? Well I'd have better luck asking my dog what's going on. However I can not progress past the paralysis state due to fear issues. I'm just not ready yet.

No, it's not a seizure. The effects that you describe are the results of entering a deep trance state (that AHHHH state that you talk about is a good description, I know exactly what you mean). Astral Dynamics (the book) has a section that describes the same effect in different words.

Basically, the opiates relax your body, but you are still mentally awake. In other terminology, your cingulate cortex (governs certain motor functions) becomes inactive while your prefrontal cortex (higher mental functioning) keeps running. Normally during sleep you don't notice this paralysis because you fall asleep before your body does, so to speak.

When you find yourself in this state, it is very natural to be frightened. Often in this state you will sense someone else in the room, hear footsteps, etc. This is commonly known as the Old Hag, and there are lots of reported cases of this (in fact, it is also thought to be responsible for accounts of alien abductions modernly, and even nuns' accounts of visits by incubus in older accounts).

I believe the Old Hag is brought on by this unique physical state, and entirely a hallucination.

Once you realize that you cannot be harmed and you let yourself become curious about this state, the fear and all the frightening effects disappear, leaving you free to explore (or wake up).

Other ways you can enter this trance state have already been mentioned (exhaustion - especially waking early in the morning and staying up for a half-hour or so - drugs, and simply being born that way). The only other way to bring it on that I know of is to practice.

I also agree that laying on your side will often reduce the chance of this happening. It seems to happen mostly only when you're laying on your back or on your stomach.

[-lines-]

Yeah, they are induced by laying on the back, sleeping at odd hours, and sleeping in strange places such as chairs or couches or at a different house. So, if you want to stop them or reduce the amount you have, sleep in your bed at a regular time at night, not deviating from that as much as possible.

[knucklebrain1970]

Had one again last night, the most powerful vibrations yet. I let it go and all that happened was the hovering noise. whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh for about a minute then I didn't know what to do. What happens after the helicopter type noise? I must have let this go for about 2 minutes total. It was intense to say the least. Fear stopped it and I wiggled my toe and broke free. This always happens when I'm on my side, not my back. Is that why I did not exit? Caus I was on my side? Does exit happen spontaneously, or do you have to will or induce it.

Kevin

[poetic_tragedy]

I dont understand why people say its less likely to occur when your on your side. I have been able to leave my body while on my  side, stomach, and back.

Whenever I start to hear the whoosing noise I make sure that I remain an observer. Like "ok.. interesting.." and just let it ride out. I dont really will it, the whole things just happens on its own. Anyway, after that - the loud wind stops and everything just becomes completely silent. Then I start to gently float up, get attached back to my body for a second and then float all the way up.

Next time this happens, keep in mind that thousands of people have experienced/are experiencing almost the same thing that you are. This will comfort you, at least it does with me.. And while its all happenng, just pretend you are an observer simply chillen.. However, if you feel you must not leave your body because you will die... just wait untill your ready like you said earlier. Hopefully by then you will be more comfortable and realize that this is just another natural process.