ZMA

[Prophet]

Regular intense exercise (IE: weightlifting) can deplete your bodies supply of  zinc, magnesium, and vitamin B-6.

There have been many studies showing that most athletes are deficient in zinc, magnesium, and vitamin B-6.

A side effect of supplementing with ZMA, is outrageously realistic dreams.

You take the supplement an hour or so before bed on an empty stomach, and it helps you sleep deeper, and as I mentioned, makes your dreams substantially more vivid and greatly increases dream recall.

Anyone have any comments?

[Frank]

Hi:

I've indulged in regular and often intense exercise on and off but have never felt any particular deficiency of the kind you mention. Maybe the studies were made by some supplements company trying to push a certain product. They manipulate stuff to their heart's content these days.

Yours,
Frank

[Prophet]

A valid comment, however, there has been countless inbiased, double blind studies on the supplement. And it has been proven to enhance performance in most top level atheletes.

There is a large body of scientific evidence supportive of ZMA. Zinc and Magnesium are commonly depleted from your body. Studies have shown that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels up to 30%

The most talked about study is the following. Lorrie Brilla, PhD, a sports performance researcher at Western Washington University, recently reported that ZMA significantly increase free testosterone levels and muscle strength in NCAA football players. These ZMA study results were presented by Dr. Brilla on June 2, 1999, at the 46th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine in Seattle, WA, and were published in the official ACSM journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 31, No. 5, May 1999.

Specifically, Brilla reported that "a group of competitive NCAA football players who took ZMA nightly during an eight-week spring training program had 2.5 times greater muscle strength gains than a placebo group. (250% better results!) Pre and post leg strength measurements were made using a Biodex isokinetic dynamometer." The strength of the ZMA group increased by 11.6% compared to only a 4.6% increase in the placebo group.

Basically, this means that if you went up 10 pounds on your bench press in eight weeks without ZMA, you WOULD have went up 25 pounds in that same period if you had been taking ZMA.

Brilla further explained, "The muscle strength increases may have been mediated by the anabolic hormone increases in the ZMA group. The ZMA group had 30% increases in free and total testosterone levels compared to 10 percent decreases in the placebo group... The ZMA group also had a slight increase in insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) levels compared to a 20 percent decrease in the placebo group. This study shows that anabolic hormone and muscle strength increases can be induced in already strength-trained athletes by using a novel zinc-magnesium preparation."

However, its direct effects are secondary here on this forum. I'm interested in its dream enhancing properties.

I know these to be valid, because a few of my close friends started reporting dreams they couldn't tell were just dreams. They say every dream they have is unexplainibly vivid. After hearing these remarks, I went on the internet, only to find the same results.

[Drew]

I currently take ZMA and have cycled it on and off, it does increase your test levels and does give me many very realistic dreams, i didn't have my first lucid dream until i was using ZMA.

[Frank]

Hi:

I can elevate my testostrone levels many hundreds of percent merely by injecting myself with testosterone. I don't need any other fancy supplement to do it to an inferior level. There is a difference between a claimed deficiency and an enhancement.

Basically, this means that if you went up 10 pounds on your bench press in eight weeks without ZMA, you WOULD have went up 25 pounds in that same period if you had been taking ZMA.

And you would have gone up around a hundred pounds had you taken 500mg of Testosterone Ethanate per week.

Come on, 10 pounds on your bench-press in 8 weeks! No one goes up 10lbs on a bench-press in 8 weeks. I could go up 10 lbs in a week no problem and I'm 46 years of age. Okay, I'm not all that unfamiliar with a bench press. But 8 weeks is a long time to wait to stick on another 5lbs either side. Even 12.5 lbs extra either side is nothing in 8 weeks.

Yours,
Frank

[Tom]

Why not just say that these are common deficiencies and that it would be especially useful for people who exercise a lot to work on getting more? They are common things to run low on. Not necessarily low enough to cause a traditional deficiency or to cause symptoms, but still low enough to make a difference.

[Prophet]

Hay,

Well, that's alot of weight when your one of the top athletes in the world.

anyways... it seems you both have missed the point of my post. I'm not here to argue over supplements, I do that on relevant forums.

Again, returning to my original idea: Could the enhanced dream effects, also enhance your attempts of phasing?

[9981]

Hey,

In my opinion there probably are chemicals out there that enhance someones ability to have vivid dreams. But i suppose then it becomes a dependency on this chemical in order to have the experience. Personally i would much rather give it time and develop that vividness naturally.

A similar topic i see has been discussed concerning the use of Brain Wave Generator and HemiSync. These devices are useful for a quick fix at inducing Lucid Dream etc, but eventually using them would, i feel slow down your progress.

Just a thought  

Cheers,

9981

[Prophet]

"I currently take ZMA and have cycled it on and off, it does increase your test levels and does give me many very realistic dreams, i didn't have my first lucid dream until i was using ZMA."

-rockin.

What if an athlete were supplementing with ZMA. An athlete who doesn't plan to stop using supplements. If this athlete were practicing phasing, he would welcome the enhancements no? So, being both a martial artist, and someone who practices phasing, I suppose the only way to find out would be do actually try it.

Ill get back to you in a few months.

[Frank]

Hi:

I suppose it would depend if the athlete in question was subject to drug testing. If not then zinc supplements, or whatever, would be a waste of time when you can simply inject yourself with testosterone (together with anti-E measures, of course). Even ignoring that and taking 50mg of Proviron (DHT) each day would increase "free" testosterone more than any "natural" supplement and give strength gains way beyond that which you mention.

Consider that any substance really and truly effective for competitive athletes outside of the bodybuilding world has already been banned by the IOC. So anything that makes any kind of grandiose claims must be a con. Whether it makes you have lucid dreams or not is anyone's guess. :)

Yours,
Frank

[Prophet]

Consider that any substance really and truly effective for competitive athletes outside of the bodybuilding world has already been banned by the IOC. So anything that makes any kind of grandiose claims must be a con.

Except for creatine monohydrate, which is amazing stuff btw.


Also, Although I'm not subject to drug testing, I stay drug free, which in my book, includes anabolic 'roids (Proviron being one).

[Frank]

Hmm, creatine monohydrate, snake oil in a jar. Never put on any weight on me that wasn't water.

Yours,
Frank

[Prophet]

That's unfortunate.

Hmm water uptake with it seems to be a problem with some people. There are ways to minimize water uptake though, which includes not overdosing...  oops, sorry, I meant "loading".

[Frank]

Creatine monohydrate is only "legal" because it doesn't work. Anything that does is banned by the IOC, lol.

You take it and nothing happens, so you wonder what this "creatine thing" is all about so you naturally take more. Only when you are taking loads of it do you start putting on weight. But it's all water. A little water weight can, of course, help to cushion the old joints from whatever impact they are having to endure in whatever activity the athlete in question is involved in. But strength gains? Not really.

In the mind I suppose. But that's only the same as when I took the baffle out of the exhaust of my moped when I was 16, and the louder it got the faster it appeared to go.

Yours,
Frank

[Prophet]

Actually it does work, but most people are wrong about what it does. It increases anaerobic endurance. It doesn't make you stronger or anything like that. Many users claim to experience almost immediate increases in peak power, but I really believe this is from a placebo effect.

It would be useless for a marathon runner. However, in the field of martial arts, sustaining high powered attacks for longer periods of time is something great.

And the only reason they allow it, is because you cant test for it. It's in meat.

[catmeow]

Creatine monohydrate is only "legal" because it doesn't work. Anything that does is banned by the IOC, lol.

lol...... hee hee

have to agree... never did much for me either.  But too much heavy weights are bad for you... take my word for it... was "near olympic fitness" 6 years ago and now have constant trouble due to the knee damage from 10 years of 200kg sqauts.... and heavy leg extensions.... take it easy out there....!  Remember to stretch before exercise - very important!

catmeow

[Prophet]

Creatine monohydrate is only "legal" because it doesn't work. Anything that does is banned by the IOC, lol.

lol...... hee hee

have to agree... never did much for me either.  But too much heavy weights are bad for you... take my word for it... was "near olympic fitness" 6 years ago and now have constant trouble due to the knee damage from 10 years of 200kg sqauts.... and heavy leg extensions.... take it easy out there....!  Remember to stretch before exercise - very important!

Weights are good for you, providing you have great form and take precautions etc...    

You could be one of the 10-20% of people who dont respond to it.

Again, I think you may be unaware of what creatine actually does. It increases anaerobic endurance.

[catmeow]

Hi Prophet

Certainly not trying to dig at you, just thought Frank's remark was funny...  creatin may or may not work, it didn't for me.

Regarding weights, you certainly have to exercise within reasonable limits.  I used to use the leg extension machine a lot and it's a KILLER.  I wore out the cartilage behind my knee caps using this machine.  It took 10 years but now I have a 2x3cm patch of grade 3-4 cartilage damage (down to the bone) behind both patellae.  It was excruciating for several years, but I recovered sufficiently to go skiing again (which was quite a recovery).  Then last year I smashed my right knee again skiing!!!  Somebody is trying to tell me something!

Just take it easy.  I used to do very heavy weights.  There's a reason why many professional sports people (eg footballers) get arthritis and can't walk in later years...

In fact I was told by a martial arts expert that many exponents damage their knees by the age of 30 and have to semi-retire from the sport.

On the other hand I've heard from another MA expert that damage can be limited by pre-exercise routines involving a LOT of warming up, stretching etc.  Never go into heavy weight exercises cold!!  

Sorry moderators...  off-topic!!

So anybody had vivid dreams using ZMA?  Personally I prefer not to ingest any chemicals even if they are called "food supplements"...!   Don't need them....

catmeow

[Prophet]

On the other hand I've heard from another MA expert that damage can be limited by pre-exercise routines involving a LOT of warming up, stretching etc.  Never go into heavy weight exercises cold!!  

So anybody had vivid dreams using ZMA?  Personally I prefer not to ingest any chemicals even if they are called "food supplements"...!   Don't need them....

Exactly right, I spend a long time warming up, and cooling down. I always do warm up sets with light weight as well.

Anyways, I'm going to get some ZMA soon, and I'll post the results.