What exactly are you trying to achieve by doing energy work?

[Seeker of Matter]

I have thought about buying Roberts books. At least the astral dynamics so I can fully understand what is happening and why.

And I do not think of Robert as a corrupt either. From my point of view he actually seams to be really a nice guy! I have listened to the radio shows with him and he just has so much to say about astral projection and I think he could talk forever about. And even when he has said a million times that people should go buy his book if they want to learn astral projection and some redneck guy who haven't reasearched this topic at all asks if Robert could teach him how to astral project. And even considering all the times Robert must have heard that question he just calmly goes ahead and tells him about some ladder technique. Now that is self-preservation

But there are a lot of things I should read!! I guess I can really begin to focus on it about a year from now, then I have finished high school!!!

EDIT: you have a quite enlightened wife there then! She should write a book based on "the stuff just out there"

[bloodsong]

But there are a lot of things I should read!! I guess I can really begin to focus on it about a year from now, then I have finished high school!!!

If your are still in high school, now is the perfect time to start practicing the energy techniques.  I know this is going to sound stupid because it wasn't that long ago that I was in school and thought that the mentor I had teaching me was full of the metaphorical brown stuff, but trust me, you have more time to dedicate to this than you ever will again until retirement age!!!

Take this opportunity to learn your energy body and personal philosophy.  Forget about AP, OBE, applied magicks, and every other specialized school of occult practice for now and concentrate on the universal basics of self knowledge.  As the inscription on the door to the Delphi Oracle said, "Postulate, know thyself."  Right now, you have questions about your own beliefs, and that is what you need to work out before you can be "disciplined" in anything.

Just a little friendly advice from someone who wanted to do it all, be damned the opinion of those who came before me. [/quote]

[Seeker of Matter]

yeah blessed be the day when I have sorted out my belief system and found a "road" which I cannot see anything wrong with walking on.

But now things are more than ever a total chaos for me. I am trying to find some kind of reason for doing things just some sort of reason for living and acting. And more and more I am coming to the conclusion that there is no reason no ultimate reality that I can cling to. So perhaps I should give this whole search for meaning and higher purpose some extra thought.
Perhaps meaning is something made up by us stupid ignorant zombie like humans so that we would feel "secure". Perhaps this whole feeling of security is a false construct...

More and more I question this whole "thinking" that I do all the time. Is everything meant to be thought trough, what will happen if I do not think things through? Is more better than less? From whose perspective? Who are judging us? If no one is judging us then there is no official and secure road in life. What is false and what is true, who are there to teach us that besides ourselves and is it even right to trust one self? What in life should I treasure? Etc. etc.

Really things are seaming more confusing than they ever were. I have had one year of philosophy and that has actually made me despair more than it has enlightened me, or perhaps that "enlightenment" has made me see things that I did not like. But why did I not like it? because that it goes against what I have always known and thought as true?

This constant questioning is beginning to annoy me. I am tired of having my fundament ripped away from under my feet with the message of that I has to make my own fundament based on what I think is true. Well I know nothing!! How the H£ll can I know what is right? I barely even know myself so it makes me angry when I am told that I am supposed to make up my own path in life... well I have no idea on what to do, how do I make meaning to my own life? It is like an abyss of infinite freedom.... How should I know what to choose or where to go?

Perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with my thinking..... but hey who dare tell me that when my thinking is made by me and therefore is true to me and to my life and my way. Nobody can tell me that I am doing anything wrong as there is no such thing as "wrong" and your definition of wrong is useless to me as I find it true and by doing that it becomes true to me.


That was just a fragment of the endless dialogue that I am having with myself all the time. And I don't know whether I should just stop thinking in that way or think even more and deeper and really take every thought out the very extreme of its meaning.

So I say again. Blessed be the day when I find some sort of meaning in this mess.

[bloodsong]

Listening to you sounds like deja vu from my own internal dialogs not that long ago.  From when I graduated to two years later, I had those kinds of questions.  I decided the only way through it was to question everything, even what I thought in the most extreme way I could to discover what I really think is the best way.

The way I decided that the best way to discover the truth of what is right and what is wrong was to go do all the things I thought were wrong, find out if they were really and why.  I still have personal nightmares at things I did over the year I tried this, but it worked.

I'm not saying this is the way for you, just that it worked for me, and you should question not whether things are right or wrong, but why you think they are.  Hopefully you won't do this in any extreme way like I did, it leads to pain.

[Seeker of Matter]

well what have you found out then, it would be great if i could just skip that whole confusing painful part and just get to the answers

please elaborate  

[bloodsong]

...I've found out two things for sure, there is a better way.  Less painful.  Although pain is a great motivator and teacher, don't discount it.

Second, and more pertinent to your question, I found out unequivocally that the truth is highly different from one person to another.  If I answered your question and told you what I learned, it wouldn't do you much good.  Sorry.

My earlier point is that you must do the work and discover your path, find out what blocks it, and work to overcome that.  The best way to do that is to first learn your own thoughts on what is right and what is wrong.  I did that through a painful procedure of first looking at what I found to be wrong, then doing those things to find out what made them wrong, or if it was just other people with no idea saying what I should do.  I also found out that other people were right in a lot of cases!

Ultimately, you have to go through the pain yourself, though.

[Seeker of Matter]

Second, and more pertinent to your question, I found out unequivocally that the truth is highly different from one person to another.

That is also the conclusion that I have come to. But then i think that truth is overrated. If truth is so subjective then what is the point of calling something true when it is only true to you - doesn't it loose its credit then?

for example: I think that the zebra is black with white stripes and you think that the zebra is white with black stripes. What is the truth about the zebra then? The only truth can then be that there is no truth. Truth is an illusion. It is just coincidences and phenomenons that we seem to agree on the same things.
I think that is caused by us having the same bodies or at least similar bodies with similar senses.

I actually think that all labels such as "good" and "bad" and "true" and "false" are just bi-products of how the world feels to our bodies and that we therefor should take "truth" with a grain of salt.

I hope that i will some day learn astral projection. Because I have a feeling of that "truth" has a quite different meaning in the astral, not like anything I have ever known before.


Well it can't hurt to imagine

[Tom]

After you stop all this doing and just be, it takes time for the tensions in your body and mind to release. Just watch and wait and allow the process to happen. Everyone has to do it for themselves. Meditation and energy work are tools to give you something to do to keep you from interfering with the unwinding process.

[Seeker of Matter]

I can see how that makes sense from a Buddhist point of view. But I have found that you just cannot "be" in this world. Our bodies require doings in order to stay alive.

I don't think that you can apply those philosophies while you are still build into this flesh vessel - it will create misery to try and fight against. You cannot ignore your body. It is real now and you simply have to deal with it. Accept the need for doing and allow yourself to dream of a being without doing.

It is not possible to just be right now, if you think it is, then maybe you are simply ignoring things and I think that you should acknowledge everything and act out from it.

Tom I have been wondering about you. You mystify me. All of your answers seem so robotically correct and emotion free (is that a correct observation?) No sign of feelings or doubt or anything ells that i would describe as human. What do you yourself think you are? I am curious. I never see any kind of "chit-chat" or smalltalk coming from you. How come? Have you simply evolved beyond that?

I am not intending to be arrogant here (well if you think i am, to hell with me intentions huh ?) I have just been wondering and i guess that is to expect that a person like me would throw out such questions without any reservation. Well i have the choice to "edit" my way of appearing, but i choose not to because this is the way i am. So I just wounder, are you edited?

Hmm I guess that i know what you are going to say..... surprise me!

[greatoutdoors]

SoM,

Kind of sounds like you are starting to put Bloodsong's method to the test -- see how being hurtful to someone else feels, I guess. And no, you don't sound arrogant, just rude.

I don't know Tom except thru this forum, but his posts have generally been well-thought and logical. The advice he is giving you here is valid. While meditating, you certainly can "just be." While meditating, expect nothing, and accept whatever comes, calmly. Over time answers may come to you. If you are genuinely looking for the ultimate, universal, TRUTH, that's the only way to achieve it.

And I will say absolutely without reservation that yes, "Truth," "Good," and "Evil" exist. The most obvious truth in your Zebra example is that Zebras are black-and-white. A geneticist or zoologist could very likely tell you which was the base color. If you ram your hand forcefully into a hard object, your hand will hurt. That's truth. As to its being based on the experiences of our body, that's all we've got.

I'm going to be pretty direct with you now, and apologize if it offends. You opened the door yourself with your own comments. In your posts I see you eagerly accepting advice that is practically guaranteed to lead to nothing but grief, then saying thanks but no thanks to advice that could actually be helpful. If your posts are made in jest, then "no harm, no foul" and all I'm wasting is some typing. If you are making serious inquiry, then you need to take a good look at yourself. You come across as very young, upset and angry that life isn't handing you everything you want on a silver platter. Here's a news flash, life's not fair and it doesn't operate by our rules. (I'd be way richer if it did!) You also seem to be looking for someone to make your judgment calls and decisions for you. There are people willing to do that, but what happens if you don't like their decisions -- back to square one.

If you are looking for an emotional rudder or as good a roadmap as we are likely to see, there's no shortcut. It's called study and meditation. Of course, there's been a few million people on that path ahead of you, and lilkely as many more behind, but there's always room for one more. And if you never find the ultimate TRUTH, at least in the search, you had a purpose. There's something to be said for that.

[Tom]

The more time I spend writing on a post, the shorter it gets.

[bloodsong]

greatoutdoors wrote:

In your posts I see you eagerly accepting advice that is practically guaranteed to lead to nothing but grief, then saying thanks but no thanks to advice that could actually be helpful.

I would like to point out that my advice was against that road, however I understand if it did not come across as such, sometimes I over abbreviate my point when my son is begging for attention. I do after all want to give it to him! (NO, he is NOT one of the mistakes I was referring to, and NEITHER is his mom. Those are some of the great things that happened since I, as greatoutdoors points out, stopped trying to find the "easy way" and started applying myself to my own life!)

Also,

If you are looking for an emotional rudder or as good a road map as we are likely to see, there's no shortcut. It's called study and meditation. Of course, there's been a few million people on that path ahead of you, and likely as many more behind, but there's always room for one more. And if you never find the ultimate TRUTH, at least in the search, you had a purpose. There's something to be said for that.

As I have said elsewhere, I am not a Christian, but I will give that an AMEN.

[Seeker of Matter]

Firstly thanks for the answers. It is nice to see that even though this thread is getting boringly long I still get response.

Then I would like to explain why I am what it being perceived as plainly rude towards Tom. That is because he interests me and I deeply admire the way he writes his answers to me – they just seem so correct every time. I myself am a very incorrect person I say things that doesn't make sense I even write things that might sound as if they make sense, but in reality they don't. And I am aware of that therefore my curiosity is great when I encounter people that have abilities that I want to have but do not have. Then I want to find out how that person can be this way because I have only tried being in my own way and I am therefore skeptical about people being different from me. So in order to validate that other persons are not just other "me"s with a massive fear as me I scratch the surface in order to be sure that "I" am not on the inside being suppressed in that person. That is something I have always done. I am doing it so that I at the end won't get hurt for believing in something that was false.

So Tom, I want to believe in you and I am just looking for a way to determine whether you are really as good as you appear or just another me. I can't use another me for anything because I know myself and I know where I have brought myself and I want to go somewhere ells.

I am sorry if I have offended you – which I hope I did not especially for the reason above.

greatoutdoors: I also believe in good and evil exist – for me and that's the problem. I do not believe in good and evil as universal truth for everyone. As I wrote before I think it is just a phenomenon that because I find it bad to be scratched with a rake that you also find it bad. If we try to label "being scratched with a rake" as bad, then what would happen if I scratched a elephant with a rake, it would probably like it because its skin is so thick it wouldn't get hurt from it making "being scratched with a rake" good.

The bad thing for me about thinking this way is that I take it to the extreme - to test if it is true. Like you do in math to ensure that a formula is valid – you try a variety of numbers and check if it still gives a correct result. When I take this thinking to the extreme I in a way feel the world dissolving around me and I feel very alone because the things that I consider true are only truly true to me and not anybody ells and I can therefore not trust anybody. This would not be a problem if I just trusted myself though.

Now what I deep deep down hope you will do now is to say that what I am writing is in no way making any sense to you and that you will correct me where I am wrong and tell me what universal truth is and back it up with down-to-earth examples that I can understand. Make me say :oh I see now"
But I guess that you can't and that will prove my own thoughts and then I am back where I started..... at my own confusion.

[Tom]

At this point I think I know enough to be able to develop myself spiritually. Learning to teach is going to take another decade or two. The only exception is reiki; that is easy enough that I can teach it now.

You might find this author and teacher useful:
http://www.eckharttolle.com/home.php

Pushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?

[Seeker of Matter]

I never said I was looking for a teacher. I was just looking for a person who is TRUE in every aspect like a Jesus (just without the whole concept of Christianity) or a Buddha.

Pushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?

You are trying to make me say :" oh i see now " are you not because that I would find it rather stupid just to try and live anywhere outside earth because that is as far as I know impossible.... well at least until they set up bases on Mars and Arnold melts those ice blocks and bring oxygen then it would be possible
But yeah I will say it " Oh i see now" but only because your methaphore for taking things to the extreme is so grotesque and really really down to earth that I can only interpreted it in that way.

I am still arguing a bit with myself whether taking theories to the extreme and traveling to another solarsystem can be compared so easily. Well I will let it rest now. Thanks for your reply Tom

lol.... I must say that trying to fast and think on the same time is rather impossible. If you don't know I started fasting 3 days ago and I am on the 54 hour now. It is really torture!
But I did experience one thing OBE related though. Last night as went to sleep I could suddenly feel my arms becoming sort of "big" like someone was blowing air into them and at the same time it felt as if I couldn't move them. But just as I thought about them that whole sensation disappeared in a second. But I felt it nevertheless!!

[Blackstream]

To answer your original question, my purpose in energy work (which I really need to start up again and stick too), is to find out what's real and what isn't.  From there I'll figure out what to do next, if I get that far.  

So far all I've determined is that lucid dreaming is real, energy is either real, or my body is really good at making tingling sensations and making various parts of my body feel warm, and that astral projection "might" be real, based on one experience that was far more real than any wake induced lucid dream I've ever had (those being the kind that are the most sensationally powerful that I have at any rate, although they tend to be quite short lived cause I suck).

If this is somehow selfish I don't really care.  I plan on letting people know what I find out, as well as how I came about my conclusions, and I fully realize that no one will believe my vision of truth is the correct one.

I will admit that I do have selfish reasons for doing this as well.  I fully intend to exploit anything I learn to help me along in life.  I will try to use anything I learn to help others as well, if possible.

[TruthLiesInYou]

I never said I was looking for a teacher. I was just looking for a person who is TRUE in every aspect like a Jesus (just without the whole concept of Christianity) or a Buddha.

Pushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?

Grounding is so you can energy's yourself from the energy's of Gaia the earth.

You are trying to make me say :" oh i see now " are you not because that I would find it rather stupid just to try and live anywhere outside earth because that is as far as I know impossible.... well at least until they set up bases on Mars and Arnold melts those ice blocks and bring oxygen then it would be possible
But yeah I will say it " Oh i see now" but only because your methaphore for taking things to the extreme is so grotesque and really really down to earth that I can only interpreted it in that way.

I am still arguing a bit with myself whether taking theories to the extreme and traveling to another solarsystem can be compared so easily. Well I will let it rest now. Thanks for your reply Tom

lol.... I must say that trying to fast and think on the same time is rather impossible. If you don't know I started fasting 3 days ago and I am on the 54 hour now. It is really torture!
But I did experience one thing OBE related though. Last night as went to sleep I could suddenly feel my arms becoming sort of "big" like someone was blowing air into them and at the same time it felt as if I couldn't move them. But just as I thought about them that whole sensation disappeared in a second. But I felt it nevertheless!!

In my perspective of understanding inner work and energy work is that it is done to balance yourself to regain the control of yourself, to bring in light of yourself, the knowledge that you learn of yourself so that you can in knowing love of yourself know love of other self's "other people" when the perception of understanding what it is to be as a piece in the divine design and consciously accept this piece, new awareness's awaken.

You can not learn to love others if you can not learn to love yourself first, in loving yourself and bringing in your light and awakening to it you pulsate that very energy to others by example of yourself, this is not selfish for your intention was to understand the One that all is and in understanding the One that all is then you feel the love and connection to the infinite all which you are a piece of.

peace hope helps

[bloodsong]

In short, what it comes down to is that it is irrelevant what we are doing energy work for to your life, only what purpose you will put the knowledge you gain from your own work, energy or otherwise.  Selfish or selfless, the choice is not only subjective to the person looking at it, but the choice is yours alone to judge.

[aslegnat]

To date, my main goal is to improve capabilities such as memory, concentration, QI and similar. I've test mental enhancement capabilities through energy work effectiveness through chess games. It really works.