Question about Phasing as a explanation model.

[Nay]

Ha what a world, here I try to elevate the conversation to higher levels. as advised by the moderators

Ha, I'm guilty..

Smoking venom..heheh..new one on me, but my second step mother claimed she was bit by a rattlesnake and seeked no medical help, and lived.....Honestly, she has a MO that tends to lean towards the seeking out of  attention, and at her age of 52yr...wow

Nay

[Gandalf]

I am an old Hippie Doug I heard it all, this sounds a lot like old second hand hippie philosophy, nicely packaged but same old stuff.....cheech and chong "its all in your head man"

What do you think

I think that I don't agree with you and I think that you need to look at what the phasing model is *actually* trying to say before making judgements which you appear to base on your past 'hippie' experiences. Also, you might want to think about the idea that your views on your 'hippie past' may not apply to everyone. I have talked to a few 'ex-hippies' who have only positive views on their past 'hippy-experience' and still believe it was the right thing to do, even if they eventially had to get older and get on with having kids etc!

Doug

[Lente]

Hi Rob
Sorry about the mentioning of Doug, ha glad you answered , it is naturally open for all to do so. Yep my friend just a old recycled hippie, hitchhiked to India and lived all over the Mideast Afghanistan in the early 70s, did LSD in Goa, with the full moon parties. Had my share of the vierd and vonderful vorld of the hippie, note the German accent, there were a lot of Germans there then. We had folks specializing in smoking Cobra poison Datura seeds peyote and experimented with alternative realities and altered states of consciousness daily. Had my first OBE meditating in a Buddhist temple on the slopes of the Himalaya chatted with the Dalai Lama (before chatting became something you do on a computer) Yep you might say I have been 'round the block.

No bragging but you just stirred up old memories. Part of my old memories are the experiences of Spiritual phenomena, elevating swamis, moving furniture, and talking to spiritual entities in English, through the mouth of someone who was not aware that there is a world outside of Nepal. So all in all I remain cautious. How I wish you were all right, but I am pretty convinced that this is no more than a convenient belief system invented by charlatans who care not for anyone, not really, and who have very little real life experience and compensate by living and inventing fiction.

That is my opinion so far, but I realize I could be wrong so I wait and try to stay open.

Regards Mustardseed

I see you HAVE been around the block! I respect that, but perhaps that is your problem, all of your past building walls around you. Or perhaps it is wisdom you gained, honestly I don't know, I can't say I have a lot of live experience (or any experience) backing up my story, but I believe and we will see where it goes.

I'm a little disappointed that frank doesn't want to respond on this, because he should be in the right position to answer your questions whit all his experience.

Yes mustardseed keep an open mind, but more importantly, test these things for yourself.

[Lente]

Major Tom,

I think the ideas are intermingled whit each other, besides don't be so strict, just let to discussion go its way.

[Mustardseed]

Yea I guess I have been around the block however I do not believe it has made me build walls. I have had OBEs all my life since childhood, spent many years trying to make them stop, to no avail, so I have learned to live with them. I am one of the unfortunate few who does not have to fight to have one but fight against having them too often. What irony.

For a good many years I have worked as an Missionary/Exorcist, I and worked for the best part of 15 years in India and Nepal, so people believe me. I don't buy into the head stuff, these things are real, negs exist, and no amount of pretending they don't are going to make them go away.

That is why I would be so pleased to discuss this with "the man", but it seems he is busy, so let it be. It does not seem that Frank want this exchange of information. If he does respond I would hope that this would not degenerate to become somewhat a exchange of rhetoric's, but a honest exchange of experiences.

What I desire is that we all sit down together Adrian Frank Robert whoever (all of you guys) and compare notes. No one is the enemy no one the adversary, all just friends trying to find the way through, lets compare notes in respect with kindness and may our motive be to learn and help the one who by chance will pass the way we have all ready gone, and may we be a blessing, one to another.

No ego no pride no right wrong or "I told you so". I would be ready for that conversation, to learn from you, would you be ready to learn from me and everyone else who might join in as well????Or do you all ready have all the answers?? Those who know me will know what is in my heart. All I desire is to be a help to someone, that's all.

Regards Mustardseed

[Lente]

Some people never have a neg experience, so they are just lucky I guess?

[Gandalf]

For a good many years I have worked as an Missionary/Exorcist, I and worked for the best part of 15 years in India and Nepal, so people believe me. I don't buy into the head stuff, these things are real, negs exist, and no amount of pretending they don't are going to make them go away.


Once again, I have to point out that nowhere does the phasing model say that 'negs' are not real. Rather, it is quite clear that anything you create is real.

The issue is not whether 'negs' are real, they are real for the people experiencing them. The issue is to understand what causes 'neg' experiences and what makes 'negs' real.

Once you do a bit of exploring of the astral reality and gain a bit of experience of how it ticks, it becomes pretty clear, at least to me, how 'neg' type experiences occur. Armed with this, you can begin to combat the problem. In fact, it is possible to completely bypass the sticking point completely. Once again, there is nothing that you create that is not real. You just need to get an idea of what is going on to fuel these 'neg experiences'.

Of course, its up to you what you do, but give it a try, you might find that by examining the way in which the 'thought = action' process works, you might save a lot of time in your 'neg battles'.

Doug

[Mustardseed]

Doug said..................

Once again, I have to point out that nowhere does the phasing model say that 'negs' are not real. Rather, it is quite clear that anything you create is real.

The issue is not whether 'negs' are real, they are real for the people experiencing them. The issue is to understand what causes 'neg' experiences and what makes 'negs' real.

Once you do a bit of exploring of the astral reality and gain a bit of experience of how it ticks, it becomes pretty clear, at least to me, how 'neg' type experiences occur. Armed with this, you can begin to combat the problem. In fact, it is possible to completely bypass the sticking point completely. Once again, there is nothing that you create that is not real. You just need to get an idea of what is going on to fuel these 'neg experiences'.

Of course, its up to you what you do, but give it a try, you might find that by examining the way in which the 'thought = action' process works, you might save a lot of time in your 'neg battles'.


Dear Doug
If you don't mind me saying it, it is this very patronizing attitude that I find so silly. It seems you are setting yourself up as some sort of expert in this field, asking me to "give it a try......etc" You talk as if you are lecturing a person who has just encountered a neg problem maybe someone your own age and experience or younger. What I was trying to say seems to not register with you!!.

My point is that I HAVE tried Doug, I have had loads of OBEs and other life experiences, and certainly have met the type of neg you talk about, my own fear in some shape, maybe even someone elses fear, and I agree in the astral these things take on a life on their own. What I was talking about is not this issue, I am talking about the Reality of Negs that was here before any of us maybe for 1000 of years and who's origin is unknown.

I find it almost humorous that you keep talking about us "gaining experience", as does Frank, "try this out try that see for yourself etc". I was in a nice way trying to explain to you that, given the fact that I am most likely twice your age and have been spiritually active for a long time, I have seen and experienced aspects of life you have not nor possibly ever will. You need to get of the self proclaimed experts chair Doug and understand that there are people around that know infinitely more about life spiritual truths etc than you do.

I find it interesting that this point seem to escape you and can only at this time attribute it to an slightly enlarged ego. That is understandable, and not offensive to me, its not a problem forign to me   , you are still young, but do us all a favor and come down from the pedestal that you have placed yourself on, honestly you sound very much like some of the Mystics you condemn so much. That's what I was trying to say lets ask questions compare notes and reason together, as equals and not as teacher/pupil.

Regards Mustardseed[/quote]

[Gandalf]

Well, what can you say?

Do what you like, I am not really bothered what you think of phasing or any other method, do what you want.

Doug

[Mustardseed]

Hi Doug
Thanks. Yea actually that's what I am going to do, I will try to do what I have to do. Your reply however saddens me. It seems that you and Frank are not either willing or capable of discussing things that go against your belief systems in a kind and unbiased way. I wonder why that is so.? My reply to  you was detailed yet you answer in a sort of cold "whatever " attitude, indicating you are not willing to discuss your conclusions.

That is a very effective way of silencing the opposition, in politics its called "stonewalling".

For a long time I have listened to you Doug, a long time. I have accepted that it was indeed possible you possessed information about religious studies and stuff that I did not have. I respected you for that and yielded to what I hoped was a better source of accurate information. I did not always like it and sometimes your ways rubbed me the wrong way, I felt at times you came across a bit arrogant, but hey!!!! you were right in what was discussed and so I made the decision to ignore your manners because you had valid points to bring to the table.

Now its a bit reversed, I have a few life experiences that I believe are of importance and worth yet you basically cut me off and say "whatever", ................why is that Doug. Are you so sure you know how it all works that you are not interested in this conversation?. Did I offend you by mentioning the fact that I felt you were a bit proud,? or are you investing so much faith in Phasing that you do not dare to see its validity challenged in public?.

Are you honest with yourself or is your mind made up.

Regards Mustardseed

[Nay]

MS, please give it a rest now, ok?

We are all here trying for the same goal, does it really matter how we get there?  There are several roads that lead to New York but would you tell someone whom came from the south road, they were wrong and really aren't in New York?  Course not.  I wish everyone would stop trying to shove ideas onto people..

Where is that gif of beating the dead horse when you need it?

Nay

[Shinobi]

Greetings Mustardseed,

I hope that you don't mind me butting in here, a bit, to meta-comment on how this thread is going.  If you are really curious about discussing the phasing model and any questions/concerns you have with it, I think that liberally lacing your questions and thoughts with personal assumptions around the motivations of those you are looking for answers from is demonstrably ineffective.  On the other hand, if your major point really IS to impugn the character of those folks, then you are right on target.  

The only reason that I interject here is that I'd really like to hear some of the answers to your questions around negs – I've got no experience that I know of with such creatures, but I've plenty with 'neg humans' and if the wider reality is peopled with an effectively limitless number of intelligences, it would seem reasonable that not all of them are pleasant.  So, how that interfaces with the self created 'demons' in the FoC model holds some interest for me, as well as potentially valuable information.  I'm no cheerleader for the FoC model, but I'm happy to engage it as a model and see how it helps; in the same way that I've engage the more standard OOB model, the Buddhist model of consciousness, Christian model, etc.  I don't believe that any of them are true, but find that each of them can be useful in the proper context.  

You mention your own pride and Heaven knows I have my own bag of that to schlep around.  The question is: are you going to let it keep you from having the discussion that you say you are looking for?  One way, or another, I'd like to see it take place.

Take care,

Shinobi

[Shinobi]

Whoops!  Sorry, Nay, just saw your post as I shot mine, so what I said is likely moot, at this point.  I still wouldn't mind actually see the conversation take place, though.

Take care,

Shinobi