NOT everyone

[majour ka]

As a medium I interact with many spirit people each day, and I certainly dont believe they all reached some kind awakening before they crossed over.

I dont buy it, my conclusion, we all have souls.

[jub jub]

Glad I found this thread. It goes hand in hand with the thread I started about talking to God.

For those who might not believe in life after death, let me relay this story.

I had a 19 year old daughter who was killed in a car accident over 4 years ago. At the time, her son, who was 2, was living with us. The day following the accident, my wife, my youngest daughter and myself witnessed the most amazing thing. My deceased daughter manifested her spirit into her son. When this event took place, the face of my grandson morphed from a two year old into the face of my daughter. She looked deep into our eyes with love and compassion as to let us know that her spirit lives on and she was okay. It was an amazing thing to behold. We all witnessed this event during different times but each time it occurred we would run to the others with excitement after seeing her!

It was after my daughter's death that my life took a turn and I began searching for answers that I couldn't find in church. I really feel that God has opened my eyes to the truth I've been searching for.

"Seek, and ye shall find."

[James S]

I think all I can really say to that post jub jub is WOW! What an experience!!!

That experience rings so true with me for a few reasons.
Having met Alison Dubois and listened to her speak about deceased loved ones being with us, and having had personal experience in this area by speaking to my deceased brother, I know without doubt that loved ones do come back to us to give us comfort and love. We do see/speak to/feel them as the individuals they were here on earth.

I'm also familiar with the "morphing face" thing. One of my closest friends is a medium who frequently channels spirits. I've seen her facial features change to that of the spirit she channels. My wife has also witnessed my friend doing this and has commented on the facial changes. My wife being the practical, logical, analytical down to earth one of the two of us, leaves me with no doubt that what I was seeing is what was really happening.
Again, proof of individuality that can only happen if spirits retain their identities - their souls.

This does tie in very well with your topic jub jub.


James.

[TishAnna]

Since I frequently astral project while I am wide awake, I believe there is something more to this life than our physical bodies.  After beginning to have OBE's at the beginning of this year, I began being able to communicate with my departed family members.  One such person is my soul-mate whom I have never met during this current physical lifetime.  However, I am told that we have shared many past lives together.  Although, I cannot remember my past lives with him right now, I am 100% positive that he is with me every day.  Ever since I started having OBE's, he has been with me on a daily basis.  I can feel him physically.  I feel a cool vapor like substance on my skin when he is near, and I have felt the magnetism of his energy pulling on my body.  I can feel him touch my hands, etc.  I have smelled fragrances that he has wanted me to smell.  I have seen him in his human form and also as flashes of light energy and a small spark type light energy (almost like a star in the sky type image).  I have heard him breathe in my ear, and I have heard him speak out-load in a very high pitched voice, which I later found out he sounds that way because of being in a higher dimension and from vibrating at a faster rate.  I am able to communicate with him through written communication by attaching a string to a Sharpie type marker pen.  After gently lifting it so that it's not too heavy on the paper, I can see the pen being grabbed ahold of as he writes. I can also feel his energy push on an ink pen as I hold it.  I have had countless other experiences with him and my other family members.  After all of these experiences, there's no doubt in my mind that flesh and bones isn't all there is to our existence.

[Tombo]

This is an interesting thread but your definitions make me frown. I actually think it would be interesting if everybody explains what he believes a "Soul" is. I'm trying to find out what you guys mean when you say "Soul" but I can't figure it out.

So you think Soul = consciousness = energy ?!

I personally thought Soul refers to a indestructible,unalterable kind of thing (but as I said I haven't really made up me mind) certainly consciousness doesn't fit these criterion's as we all know it is fairly unstable and can disappear almost completely at night. So I would like to join these discussion but please could we first define these difficult words? Do the other agree with Lolas definitions? I would guess not.

I find also the word enlighted very intriguing! Certainly BUddha had something very different in mind when he used it compared to Lola. Certainly not a evolution of consciousness! So kind of bewildering for me to read about "Enlightment" ( That I know about thruogh me studies of Buddhism) and see that it is used completly in an other sense here


BTW Fist: I find your post very interesting but... I think The Dalai Lama would turn over in his grave when he heard would you said  Certainly the Buddhist believes that there is no indestructible,unalterable Soul. But most Buddhist certainly do NOT believe that the consciousness dies after death or is generated by the brain. They do not believe that there is only matter. Buddha himself meets various Spirits all the time and talks about quite a few planes beside the physical one!

[James S]

I posted this in another thread. See if you think this makes any sense...

Though all spirits are all parts of the same whole, part of the same Source, each spirit, each piece of the whole, has its own individual sentience. Each piece is consciously self-aware. This allows each spirit to view existence from its own individual perspective. Over the course of lifetimes, the individual perspectives give rise to individual personalities and characteristics - the soul - the means by which a spirit percieves its experiences.

The way I equate it is "spirit" is the (indestructable) energy body, "soul" is the consciousness or sentience of a spirit.


James.

[Tombo]

I posted this in another thread. See if you think this makes any sense...

Though all spirits are all parts of the same whole, part of the same Source, each spirit, each piece of the whole, has its own individual sentience. Each piece is consciously self-aware. This allows each spirit to view existence from its own individual perspective. Over the course of lifetimes, the individual perspectives give rise to individual personalities and characteristics - the soul - the means by which a spirit percieves its experiences.

The way I equate it is "spirit" is the (indestructable) energy body, "soul" is the consciousness or sentience of a spirit.


James.

Thanks for the reply James.
So you say that the Soul is "individual personalities and characteristics" That doesn't make to much sense to me to be honest. I mean sure you can define Soul that way but it is evident that Personality and characteristics may change over time. So you would say that a Soul changes over time and that it (thus) may be destroyed?

Spirit as a "energy body-Lifeform kind of thing" I could go with that, but why are you sure it is indestructable? Couldn't it be that the energy Body is generated by our Consciousness when we need it? Very much like Robert Bruce talks about it

Tom

[James S]

I think that's a good idea Lola. I so feel the same as you on this!

I explain what I see of spirit and soul from the point of view of spending time with the ghosts of deceased people and other spirits. I don't like to philosophise, theorise or extrapolate beyond what I learn from them, because I've found doing so can contaminate the experience with preconceptions / misconceptions. As a medium, I deal only with the evidence that is brought to me by spirit, as I can't afford to do otherwise.

James.

[Tombo]

Never mind

[MindFreak]

Passivefist wrote that Buddhism teaches that there is no self. That is incorrect. Buddhism teaches "not-self" not "No-self". The Buddha taught that the self is that which is unborn, unmade, unconditioned, and therefore not subject to decay. The True self is what he taught us to look for. What he said about "not-self" was that the self is not to be found in the physical world or any of the aggregates that make up our personality.

[BoscosFriend]

right, the Buddha taught not-self, which is more of a strategy for letting go of sufferings causes. but he never taught that there was a true self. when he was asked straight out weather there was a self or not he remained silent. because both views " i have a self" or "i have no self" require clinging. the Buddha taught the middle way. to avoid extremes. the extreme of eternalism and the extreme of nihilism

[MindFreak]

But the Buddha did talk about your Buddha nature, or universal mind.

[BoscosFriend]

yes, that very nature is within every being. but it is not self. see the strategy.

[MindFreak]

Depends on your definition of the word "self". Remeber all we are dealing with here are words, its the meaning that is important. Because the Buddha didnt even say any of these words, he was speaking another language.

[BoscosFriend]

Depends on your definition of the word "self". Remeber all we are dealing with here are words, its the meaning that is important. Because the Buddha didnt even say any of these words, he was speaking another language.

Whats your point? Should we disregard the whole English translation of the Pali Canon then?  I believe when the Buddha spoke of self he meant it as a permanent essence. The Buddha said all things are impermanent and not self. But I dont speak Pali, so maybe I'm wrong. What I mean by not self strategy is that, yes we all have that true nature, but to realize it requires letting go of all attachment. If you hold on to the thought "I have a self" you are clinging. To hold on to the thought "I have no self" you are clinging. Its not about weather you have a self or not, Its the clinging that needs to be let go of.

[MindFreak]

I just meant that we shouldnt cling to the words themselves, we should look at the meaning they point at. The Buddha said that all things are impermanent and not self and subject to change, death and decay. But he was talking about things in samsara. He also said that there is a dimension, or plane of existence beyond samsara.

[MisterJingo]

Exploration to date has shown that everyone shares the exact same consciousness. Different life experiences create different personalities and belief systems (i.e. we are the sum of every experience to date) – and so the concept of an individual is born.  I haven't seen any evidence of us 'having' a soul. I would say that we are a soul.
The problems with such discussions is that even though words have a universal meaning (supposedly) we still each attach different means to such words based upon our past experiences. Also talk of energies and such is ambiguous as we have no understanding of what such energies might be.

I don't see why a dead person must be any more a hologram than a person existing in the physical (which is just another locale on consciousnesses spectrum).

Each of us being the exact same consciousness does bear a similarity with the universal consciousness concepts, although I think their scales are different.

Something I wrote on a similar topic recently on another forum:

I reason that if there is oblivion on death (yes I have projected since childhood, and do have some convincing evidence we are more than the physical body - I just can't totally discount all potential theories which have some weight - well until I truly do die ) and we are the product of a physical brain/genetic pattern, we will live again an infinite number of times. In infinity infinite possibility must be carried out (even within certain strict rules) so the conditions to produce 'you' will be reproduced an infinite number of times. With oblivion there will be no passage of time, so even if vast amounts of time pass between each recreation, it will literally be instant to 'you'. Another theory I've reasoned is that consciousness is the same in each of us. That is every human who exists (and potentially every aware life form) shares the same basis of consciousness, individuality arises from different life experiences. So in effect every person on this planet is 'you' but with differing life experiences. What this means is that if death is oblivion, you will exist in the next new born child. Not as 'you' but as a new point of consciousness which is exactly the same as your core. So either way, if there is life after death or not, we will be back

[BoscosFriend]

I just meant that we shouldnt cling to the words themselves, we should look at the meaning they point at. The Buddha said that all things are impermanent and not self and subject to change, death and decay. But he was talking about things in samsara. He also said that there is a dimension, or plane of existence beyond samsara.

agreed, and its achieved through non attachment.

[MindFreak]

Yes, but there are more methods as well

[nightowl]

NO ONE HAS A SOUL....your Soul "has" you, the physical body is only a tool/vehicle that the soul uses to EXPERIENCE as many aspects of life as possible...and "if" you don't KNOW it NOW you will pretty soon after that "dying" moment.



Nice crop circle....hey

[J.K.]

NO ONE HAS A SOUL....your Soul "has" you,

I like that..  

[Tayesin]

Hi,
All incarnated beings (inhabiting a physical form), human or otherwise, are Souls.  It's not a case of having a soul, because we exist as souls before and after each life lived.

For me, what i call Soul Level awareness (knowing what you really are) lies beyond the astral layers we used to incarnate into this world through.

Love always.

[apop]

yea, most of the people do not have a soul, they are called astral "organic portals"- 9,9bil
the largest problem of the world, bigger then the wars and the world hunger is how to get rid of them-  

[SmileySpirit14]

when is the spirit put into the body? or when does the spirit own the body?

[Jazket]

There are some people who do not have a soul, when they die their spirit becomes absorbed
into the collective consciousness like raindrops in a lake.
Only people who become awakened have the ability to continue after death as a soul.

True and False. But this is misunderstood and read literally, like most Men read the Bible. Yet they believe they have total knowledge of things, when they don't even know what they are and why they are!. The rest is up to your intelligence to find the reasons.