Karmas grip, marijuana cultivation

[MindFreak]

No one said the brewers were at fault but they still contribute. You cannot say that they do not contribute to alcoholism because they do, the contribute the alcohol. But that doesnt mean they are to blame. They arent. Only the alcoholics are to blame, only they are at fault. But the brewer does contribute.

[Mustardseed]

I wonder if groups of people can be "affected" by a common karma. If they are bound by common traditions celebrations faith or activities. Maybe it is not entirely politically correct but what about New Orleans? and to all you who live there try to see this from a purely theoretical point of view. This could be also be the USA, or France. Just a question...........and for the record I believe that Karma is a real thing......but have different names. Cause and effect, consequence, reap what you sow or what have you! I see it at play in my own life as well.

[Souljah333]

this is kind of a silly thread (in a sense), and i know everything has pretty much been covered, but karma doesn't apply to the actual function of selling pot. i think the mystical & ancient understandings of cause 'n' effect are being filtered through some christianity here. pot is illegal therefore it's wrong, therefore it creates bad karma. it's that same thing about avoiding the woods and sticking to the main path...bcuz the woods are mysterious, filled with magic mushrooms, hungry wolves, and thieves in hiding. karma doesn't really work in extremes...like deadly sins & saving graces. it's more subtle.

a guy can stand all day long on a corner with all the pot he can carry, and he isn't generating any karma at all. he can sell all the pot he wants and he's still not "contributing" to anything, as has been implied. now what he does with the money he makes from selling pot is another story, and that's where i find this issue interesting. in the scheme of which this discussion was established, there is much more "evil" in a five dollar bill, then all the cannabis sativa on the planet. with this understanding i am assuming that the pot is home grown. that's the only way to ensure karma free-trade!!! if it has anything to do with black markets, third worlds, king pins, trafficking, governments & ghettos...then yes...i'll correct myself and say bad karma is being generated, but as i also mentioned above...it's more from "purchasing power" where the money changes hands...then anything else.

just as much harm can be done buying a coffee at starbuck's or a sweater from old navy! important to stick to your own karmic state only. even the act of trying to "fix" someone else, and save them from their lessons, can produce some murky karma for yourself.

2 cents
soul

[James S]

Your 2 cents worth has just doubled the value of this conversation!
Thank you Soul for a more useful perspective on karma.

I feel that many people get an idea of karma being some "cosmic police force". Not only that, the religious aspects of wrong & right tend to muddy the mix an awful lot.

It's not even really a matter of cause and effect. At it's simplest form, look at it as our soul deciding to do something positive to repay something negative we've done.
No one makes us do it. No one enforces karma. Its our own choice.
Its just one of the tools our souls use to evolve.

I'm not going anywhere near the pot thing as I'm so over drug debates / conversations here. They've been done to death!
Then they've been resurrected, beaten around some more & done to death again!

Funny they never seem to evolve though. So much for the buddhist's philosophies on reincarnation!


James.

[Mustardseed]

Hi all
Well with all due respect, I think you are both seeing things from a too "convenient" side, and purposely or accidentally devalue the issue maybe to make it more manageable by tossing in the odd "anti christian" quib.

I am fully aware that I come from a very Christian based point of view (which should actually have inoculated me against Karma and not the other way around  ha) still I do find the metaphor about the woods profoundly contradictory. Are you saying that there is no reason to stay on the path? Are you saying that the woods are as harmless as the path?

This discussion seems to be between those who want no rules no right or wrong vs those who believe that life has absolutes and that you do reap what you sow both here and in the hereafter.

Choices and consequences is a vital part of life and without it you could do nothing and would not grow or mature, it is my opinion that unless we learn this, and we are all learning, we remain stagnant and childlike in our approach to life and the meaning of it.

To me that is Karma

Regards Mustardseed

[James S]

Nothing anti-christian in my comment.
All "strictly adhered to" philosophies - or religions tend to do the same thing regarding adding right / wrong values to karma.

I agree that it is about choices and consequences, and our choices are very important to our spiritual evolution.
What I'm saying  is that we, that is, our own spirit selves, are the judges of our own actions. When in spirit, we are the ones that decide if we have acted in love or not, and we are the ones that decide what repparations, if any, we need to make in order to learn and move forward.

What I'm trying to get away from is the idea that karma is enforced in any way by an agent external to ourselves, and define it as a measure outside of cause and effect.

Was that clearer or did I just confuse things more? :question:

Blessings,
James.

[Mustardseed]

What I'm saying  is that we, that is, our own spirit selves, are the judges of our own actions. When in spirit, we are the ones that decide if we have acted in love or not, and we are the ones that decide what repparations, if any, we need to make in order to learn and move forward.

What I'm trying to get away from is the idea that karma is enforced in any way by an agent external to ourselves, and define it as a measure outside of cause and effect.

Hi James
I don't think you confuse things at all, your input is as always quite concise and easily understood, at least to me. I guess what I am looking for is common ground, not that we absolutely have to "have some" but more along the lines of trying to debate and see if we do. Your comment about "strictly adhered to belief systems" made me wonder if your definition of Christian is too rigid? It seems to me that on the contrary those who adhere to this belief (Christianity) come in way more sizes and shapes i.e. variety of belief than many other religions.

To me that would mean that you would have to define which kind of Christian you consider for the metaphor or argument to be for so to speak. It appears to me that though it is not only in Christianity most religions could and maybe should be divided into 2 categories, those who believe they have the full picture and have stopped learning and exploring, and those who find out new things about their faith on an ongoing basis.

I have myself been very rigid in the past youth will do that to you but have in my later years come to understand that the more I learn the more I realize I know so incredibly little, and that there are so many more things to learn that the mind boggles. This attitude will insure an openness to new thinking and I find it sadly missing in the New Age community and the AP as well. It appears that the AP dogma, has become quite rigid and is fast approaching "critical mass" and subsequent hardening .

The term or idea of a astral police force, coined by RB, is one of these ever expanding issues. I have thought a lot about it and have come to the conclusion that I really do not know. If I use the term in a way it is used here I would agree that there seem to be no interference when different activities are explored, been there and done that, yet what if the Astral as we know it is only a part of the whole? what if it is in a way like that movie about LA becoming a giant jail, no rules nothing, not that astral work is criminal but as a metaphor of a closed system.

It appears that it is pretty safe to assume that there are some rules that are in play, like attracts like etc as well as some form of Karma or retribution or whatever, so I am open to the possibility that the astral is a giant petri dish and yes in that dish there appears to be no police.

Do you catch my drift James? It is in my opinion truly a matter of thinking outside the box, whatever box you are presently in, staying open and not closed to new ideas or differing opinions.

Regards Mustardseed

[Souljah333]

dear m.seed,

i understand the woods to represent the divine principal (being taboo), and the ultimate 'unknown' (world of mystery) and the path being completely 'male-based' and the accepted/est. "right" or given (world of science). i'm not saying that one is any better then the other...again, they are what they are.
i have come to the conclusion that 'the path' holds much more in the way of negative karma...but that's only based on my knowledge of it working in incomplete circles (more in straight lines & weak dimensions). it's made to take advantage and use up things in peoples own personal agendas.

this is actually more difficult for me to explain than i thought...as it goes in so many directions, and on so many levels.

for me the woods have always held more information, faster, clearer, more common sense lessons, sustenance, life, and a certain space that is reserved for me as natural. the woods spark & feed my creativity, give a solid sense of self-worth, and heals me on a very deep level. i'm speaking both metaphorically & literally. the wood inspires my heart with its beauty, satisfies my mind with its simple logic, and stirs my spirit with its intense mystery...maybe bcuz i'm an earth sign, or a woman, a solo practitioner, or a freak?!? i don't  care about the whys, the who's & hows. i can practice independence off the path and that outweighs many things for me.
it is in fact "my path". not better or worse...just different.

i could go on and on about all that 'i' find 'wrong' with the established path (for me the "system" is seriously flawed), but i doubt y'all want to hear  me complain. all in all you can't complicate karma. it is what it is, like love or water. it's existence is beyond whatever we believe it to be.

as for christianity...it was only one religious example, but since you have chosen to focus on it. i have a bit of a problem with taking the "work" of jesus (who was all about karma) & having men incessantly manipulate it over the centuries into a dogma to control, scare, and attack others with.
i am not anti-conscious when it comes to christ or jesus. i just have a hard time listening to others "explain" it to me. it's completely unnecessary.

all the greatest influences from our history (known & unknown) have come from those who laid down their own path with each step.
none of them were followers.

soul

[Mustardseed]

Dear Soul
Do pardon my frankness but maybe a inspiring conversation is to be had if none of us take themselves too serious. I seem to get the vibe that you may just be a hurting woman, maybe someone who has suffered physically or emotionally at the hands of men?

If so be aware that this does not add to your objectiveness but on the contrary makes your statements a bit shall we say suspicious.

It appears you have a female agenda......another problem if we are trying to ascertain the validity of a male such as Jesus or Buddha or whoever................just to bait you have you ever wondered why no major religious figure is female............I would have to say maybe they are too smart ha.

As far as your statement goes:

"for me the woods have always held more information, faster, clearer, more common sense lessons, sustenance, life, and a certain space that is reserved for me as natural. the woods spark & feed my creativity, give a solid sense of self-worth, and heals me on a very deep level. I'm speaking both metaphorically & literally. the wood inspires my heart with its beauty, satisfies my mind with its simple logic, and stirs my spirit with its intense mystery.."

We seem to just suffer from a problem in definition....I feel like you do but in my way of thinking , my terminology, I call your woods my path.

So come one souly take the bait, no harm intended and James lets hear your always welcome input as well.

Regards Mustardseed

[James S]

Hi MS,

I like the 2 distinct types of "religious" people you mention - the dogmatic and the spiritual.

Maybey I should use the term "religious" less, and the term "dogmatic" more. It puts forward more of the meaning I'm looking for.

I do believe I have probably over-simplified the concept of karma. But what I've described is the aspect of it that I am currently conceptually comfortable with. Further experience may add to my concepts, but I tend to not like over thinking or over complicating things.

In this way, I distinguish karma from the laws of cause and effect, like attracts like, and exchange of energy. They are their own individual entities, but like energies I see within the study of numerology, each individial number, each individual entity, has its own energy which then blends together with other energies to form a mosaic - a complete picture.
As yet I cannot see the mosaic that karma is a part of, so I look at the individual energy and try to get to know it better.

Thinking about your comment about no major female figures in religion, well, it seems you may be only considering the Piscean age religions that grew out of Judaeism. Think about the religions that have been around much much longer and you see major figures like Isis, Freya, Aphrodite, Maat, Quan Yin, Ceridwen, Diana, Gaia, Ishtar, Shiva, Sarasvati, Venus....  the list goes on and on.

Consider though that in the older religions there was always a balance between male & female - Isis & Osiris, Quan-Yin & Avalokitesvara (female & male aspects of the same entity), Herne & Diana, and the one many "dogmatic" christians will argue against - Jesus & Mary.

I know this is a little off-topic, but I feel it important that Soul's female perspective be looked at here, as I do believe that she is correct in that many current esoteric & religious beliefs do have a male bias.

Blessings,
James.

[Souljah333]

dear james, thanks for summing up the main focus on female deities, the balance of, the older systems, etc. saved me from going on about it...which tends to get me rambling off point.

as for being a jaded woman...yes, i suppose to a certain degree i am comfortable with admitting that...but at the hand of men?!? absolutely not! at my own doing only. i surmise my jadedness as that state of the "serious student", but that doesn't mean that i'm lacking a sense of humour either. i'm definitely not a "feminist" if that's what you're implying. i love men! i would love even more to get a point where the words male & female didn't exist, but that's asking a lot (still) in this day 'n' age. i mean...we're still working with black & white, straight & gay, up & down, and all that. in that light i think it would be too much for me to ask of others (and i'm misinterpreted enough as is ).

as for your precious christianity and the lack of female involvement...it's hard for me to put into words. there is a feeling a betrayal there, that calls to me from beyond. it was omitted for a reason, and without trying to explain that reason...i'll just say that i feel it was (as with the idea of women) too much, too sacred, too key...and in that the idea that it has always been hidden, protected...for a more fitting time. you may notice that more & more of the divine aspect of the christian faith is coming to light. good in the sense that it will bring it into balance...finally.

i don't hate the playa's or the game...but i can be as you say 'serious' at times. i hold myself highly accountable as a unique function, as a woman, and as part of the whole. on that account...i'm not one to let others off easily, especially men! i have a great amount of empathy for the modern man and the system he's created/inherited from his fathers before him. this has a lot to do with the lack of "coming to age" rituals, but that's even more off-topic. it would be nice to garner the same respect from men in general...that when i look back on my life, and my involvement with men in particular...there is nothing of great significance that was passed along; and i can't say that that doesn't bother me!

i see it all swinging into balance as it should. my energy is utilized most...for appreciating the rhythm of it all, and finding peace in the process. i'm sorry if i don't convey that clearly 2 U.

[Mustardseed]

Dear Soul and James
Thanks for the update, I hope you were not offended it was not my intent. As you so aptly explained the male female issue is very big in the world and I as yourself feel sorry for the men and their frustrated attempts at righting the past wrongs while at the same time avoiding falling into the same trap. It is however much the same on the other side of the fence. Just today I had a conversation with my partner (female) about the irritation I feel when females try to gain favor through "being cute" the sort of batting the eyelids and using feminine charms, it is so immature and entirely........effective. Ha I believe that it is the secret weapon that all women have and use at will........even you. In every way as much of a burden to carry as the masculinity. Just look at your Picture. I am starting to wonder if we should just allow people to decide themselves if they want to use the old or new gender association. Seems fair.

On the issue of the feminine Gods and goddesses I would still say that all though among worshiped deities both are represented, as far as religious leaders, and God heads men seem to be much in the majority.

Regards MS

[Souljah333]

as for my avatars...it's an alter-ego thing, and one of my artistic passions as well. i love fantasy-erotica...always have. think it started with the vamperella comics in the playboy magazines that my dad kept in the bathroom.
frank frazetta, sailor jerry, betty page, betty grable, betty boop, marilyn monroe, etc, etc...and yes it's fascination has always carried a conundrum. that wonderful faux-naive/princess syndrome act that works in almost all situations, and the idea of such passive manipulation also demonstrating great intelligence & power. anyway...that's beside the point.

for someone that's been celibate going on nine years now...i've moved out of that sexual system of power-playing, competing with other women for attention, blaming one sex or the other (in the small picture of things), etc. a lot people think that being celibate is simply abstaining from sex, but it's a self-discipline that really opens your eyes in relation to how all people behave for the most part...impossible to relate to unless one is in the same boat. that in itself makes it hard for others to understand where 'exactly' i'm coming from...despite the avatar.

there was a point in time when women were in control of just about everything 'important'. they were the land owners, paper holders, they made all the major decisions concerning their tribes/family. they were the healers, teachers, soothsayers, prophets, shamans, life-givers, etc. there's very little of that left, and even less 'documented' in history, but the current state of affairs shouldn't influence your thinking as greatly as it does. the table is turning as we speak.

soul

[James S]

On the issue of the feminine Gods and goddesses I would still say that all though among worshiped deities both are represented, as far as religious leaders, and God heads men seem to be much in the majority.

Maybey female deities don't feel the need to show off as much!  :mrgreen:

And no, I never feel any offence form your posts MS. You put forward your points in a calm and friendly manner. Makes it much easier to discuss different views.  

My thoughts about your point of females trying to gain favour the way you mention, yes it is a clever tactic on their behalf. Gods know I always fall for it! But then I'm a sucker for a pretty smile (or a bathtub full of clotted cream... Soul   ).
Still, I believe it comes down to the balance thing again. If men didn't feel the need to show aggressive & bossy macho behaviours, women wouldn't need to seduce or cajole through feminine charms.

Ancient civilisations have shown much more even balance in the male & female roles. A Celtic man would not have thought himself any less manly by helping his partner work the fields or gather fruit. Nor would he have felt his manhood threatened if his partner were better with a sword in battle than he.

Blessings,
James.

[James S]

Ok, now I am getting off topic. How did we get here? No don't tell me, I'll find the way.

<James goes off behaving like a typical male refusing to ask for directions>

[Mustardseed]

OK then back to the subject. My question is or was if entire groups of people cities countries etc and maybe even gender are being matured taught or influenced by a principle like karma. I am thinking here in a wider sense of the word than being reborn as a blonde cause you cheated on your girlfriend, or as the Hindu tradition hints, some lover form of existence.

Is karma at play in all spheres of life? I think so. I just have a different definition or terminology for KARMA.

Incidental though not really accepted by the majority of Christianity it is my own strong belief and I believe it can be justified by scripture, that the Holy Spirit is female. It is also the clear understanding that all Christians are to take female traits in a sense and are to count themselves as the bride of Christ. Submission etc

Indeed it seems that things are changing, and though the men in charge are not willingly giving up their power over THINGS, the life of the spirit that seem to be changing our world, is no doubt more important and in every way a feminine energy. The men who can embrace this will do themselves a favor. Men should be thankful that they are learning to understand women, some men say "I never can understand a woman no one can" but I think that after changing a few thousand diapers blowing noses and not being able to think about sex because the house is messy and tomorrow is laundry day, after a while they will at least appreciate them a whole lot more and who knows maybe marriages will start to last more than 2 months.

Just heard Brittney is getting a divorce ha. I guess women already had a swing at being men in the 70s ..............so tell us did you learn anything?

Regards Mustardseed

[Souljah333]

just out of curiosity MS...are you male or female???

did i learn anything?!? seeing as i was born in '68...i'm not sure. that decade did have a profound effect on me though. and as the '80s sucked the big donkey-kong , the '90s were a mess, and this...well this is just getting crazy. i think i'm still trying to implement the stuff i learned in a past life!?!

[Mustardseed]

Male, (Scorpio w Libra rising and Gemini moon if you are into that kind of thing)