DMT- HOW COULD ANYONE HAVE MISSED THIS?

[astralmaster]

THanks for all the links, i will surely visit them. On the other hand, i wouldn't be so sure that DMT is safe. Don't take a websites word for it, either ask a doctor or visit a medical website.

Have you ever hear of salvia Divinorum?






David

[Tom]

It is still not obvious to me how to get DMT cheaply and without legal troubles. It is not enough to know that I produce it in my pineal gland and that I can find it in plants in South America. As to producing it myself, I know enough to know I can't do it. Anyone who suggests using lithium aluminum hydride at home is crazy. Same for ether, really.

[Helmut]

Hi asstray85,

believe me, no drug having an impact on the psyche is completly harmless. How could it be! The argument that shamans have used drugs for generation, doesn`t hold. If you are a shamans apprentice, you get your experience in a controlled setting with guidance. If you use drugs on your own, it`s like riding a race car without training, you may feel great on a salt lake, but any curve will certainly end the pleasure.
Any psychotropic drug, if used for a while, will imbalance the nervous system. The other danger comes from going into realms, you are not prepared for. If you use your own energy to go, you can compete as this is YOUR level. If a drug rocket takes you to the DEITY level, you`ll be lost.
I am not moralizing, believe me. I had some experience with LSD 30 years back, and it`s just not worth the price you have to pay.

Helmut.

PER ADURA AD ASTRA as Robert would say.

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by asstray85:
DMT is a drug that is completely harmless.  Our body produces the chemical and it stimulates to pineal gland

Yeah?  Well my body also produces methane but you won't see me putting anymore of that inside of it.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Rolling Bear]

Asstray, DMT and beta-carboline compounds (such as in Syrian rue and passionflower) can indeed be useful tools when used in the proper safe, comfortable set and setting, and with the help of experienced human guides. When combined (as in ayahuasca), the DMT and beta-carboline containing plants can produce amazing results, such as telepathy,  but may sometimes interact dangerously with one another (depending on the particular kind of DMT-like alkaloid, I believe). Please read all the literature you can find about them, including medical warnings; they are both MOA inhibitors, especially the beta-carbolines, and in combination with the wrong food or drugs (cocoa, antihistamines, aged cheese, yohimbe, for instance) can cause a dramatic, even life-threatening drop in blood pressure. If you are interested in trying DMT and/or beta-carboline containing compouns, seek an experienced, trustworthy guide. Perhaps first try the the substances by themselves, in the most natural forms possible, and in a ritualized setting -- your guide can help with this. Psilocybin-containing plant friends are a great natural way to ingest DMT-like compounds. Remember, these substances are triggers, and not the experiences themselves; while non-addictive, they still may be habit-forming in a way, as you may come to depend on them for The Experience -- in which case, you are being signaled to move on and learn to do it with different triggers, such as hypnosis/relaxation/affirmation. Please obey all applicable laws. You may wish to try these substances in countries where they are allowed, and among people who are knowledgeable about them, and do not look upon them unfavorably. www.lycaeum.org is a great site for serious information on such subjects.

Blessings,
Dave

"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[Frank]

Anyone trying to find a short-cut through drugs please forget. You can't retain or keep the requisite degree of mental control. It's next to impossible with people who are completely sober.

Yours,
Frank

[Tom]

It would be an interesting experience and worth repeating, but I can't imagine wanting to make a habit of the experience. These things have a way of declining quickly, and there is cross-tolerance even between different families of hallucinogens. Meditation, unlike hallucinogens, starts out slow and gets better. It is frustrating to wait for that time to come, and it helps to have some memories to rely on for motivation.

[Rolling Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
Anyone trying to find a short-cut through drugs please forget. You can't retain or keep the requisite degree of mental control. It's next to impossible with people who are completely sober.

That's an extreme oversimplification, Frank. These plants were given us as learning tools, and there is good reason to believe (see McKenna) some of them were responsible for the development of human language. Humans have a very long history of using psilcybin, as is evidenced by a brain receptor into which psilocin fits like a key in a lock, showing that humans used them for perhaps many thousands of years. The plants are our friends and spirit-companions. The trick is to learn what they have to teach, but not become dependent on them for the experience. If used properly, they are no short-cut, but simply one means toward achieving an end. As with mental control, that comes in time with any method; and no need to worry about becoming addicted to psychedelics, for they are non-addicting, generally non-habit-forming, and most users naturally take them infrequently, eventually learning enough through such use that they no longer need to take them. This can even happen after one powerful experience.

[asstray85]

I agree bear.  If you are going to reply to this topic, dont reply on impulse and express your knowlege of drugs, because dmt is different.  It is naturally secreted during meditiation, therefor if you take it externally its equivelent to intense meditation.  So It would never ruin your control, I tried to explain before but i guess some people didnt get it.  LSD messes with your head, you see and hear things that simply arent there, imaghes, sounds, etc, created by your brain, and of course the possiblility of a spiritual experience.  DMT on the other hand is purely spiritual, and it does not have to turn into a habit at all.  If anyone thinks this drug is too hard to obtain or extract, theres this pill you can take that is supposed to naturally boost dmt levels which could be a tremendous help in meditation.http://www.acutcmdetox.com/tryptophan2.html

-Steve

[PeacefulWarrior]

Terrence McKenna was a crackhead...JK  I read a lot of his works a while back and the sad thing is that he really thought he was on to something, and you know what..he was just ON something.  I have personally used a number of psychadelic compounds, I studied them...I experienced their effects, and I have OBE'd...and trust me, you WILL NEVER experience, with DMT or any other drug, the true meaning of power and freedom in the out of body state...NEVER!  The doors of perception are flown open but not cleansed.

The following is an expereince by an unknown male subject (taken from www.erowid.org )

  SOME INFO:

DOSE :    smoked 5-MeO-DMT (powder / crystals)

BODY WEIGHT : 190 lb


For a period of approximately 6 weeks, I experimented rather frequently with 5MEO (three or four times a week). Typical doses were in the 5 to 10 mg range, and we would do this perhaps 3 times over the course of an evening using a small glass pipe.

This substance produces a short lasting but extraordinarily intense psychedelic experience. In addition to mental effects which are roughly comparable to the peak of a double digit acid experience, the drug also produces indescribably euphoric physical sensations comparable to orgasm.

The onset of effects is almost instantaneous and the ensuing rush so intense that no matter how many times one has used the substance the first few seconds after inhalation are invariably accompanied by a degree of shock and fear. The drug's principle effects are intensely euphoric and last in general 5 to 10 minutes. During this period it seems as though one has no direct contact with the outside world; as though all stimuli to the brain are emanating from within rather than through the senses. This period of intoxication, which we came to refer to as 'the warp', is sometimes followed by a period which may last as long as half an hour during which the user feels effects quite similar to a large dose of LSD.

At the conclusion of this approximate 6 week period, interest in the drug waned and there was no further experimentation. Starting from perhaps a month afterwards, both myself and my partner in experimentation experienced a variety of disturbing neurological symptoms, such as twitches and occasional feelings of pins and needles and numbness of the extremities.
Occasional disturbances of memory were also noticed. These symptoms continued with decreasing intensity for the better part of a year after the period of experimentation, at which point such symptoms ceased to occur. It was at this time that we noticed, week by week, a sense of increased mental clarity and proficiency. During this same period it became clear to us that our performance at work (software development) had been substandard in the months that followed the period of experimentation. It occurred to us both that the period of chronic experimenation with 5MEO, however enjoyable, seemed to have caused temporary but significant damage to our brains, both cognitively and neurologically. A chilling reminder that substances such as 5MEO are indeed RESEARCH CHEMICALS for which safe levels of use are yet undetermined.

In light of my experience with 5MEO, I urge caution to anyone considering experimentaion with the drug and strongly suggest that such experiments be of a limited nature.


Exp Year: 2000 ID: 5845
Added: Mar 25, 2001 Views: 3540


fides quaerens intellectum

[Rolling Bear]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:
Terrence McKenna was a crackhead...and trust me, you WILL NEVER experience, with DMT or any other drug, the true meaning of power and freedom in the out of body state...NEVER!  The doors of perception are flown open but not cleansed...In light of my experience with 5MEO, I urge caution to anyone considering experimentaion with the drug and strongly suggest that such experiments be of a limited nature.

Peaceful, you don't use very friendly language for someone with such a user name; your words about McKenna seem unkind and provocative, and further, they imply he used the drug crack, which seems doubtful (although perhaps he experimented with it, I don't know). I do agree that caution is the watchword, but I feel it should be such with any psychic trigger or experience. The DMT experience is overwhelming, which is why I recommend the counsel of our coprophilic plant-friends instead. Your assertion that "the doors of perception are opened but not cleansed" is inaccurate; it implies the trigger is the experience, while in truth, the chemicals only lead you to the door, whether they come from a smoke, a plant, or your pineal gland. Certainly, external triggers are not necessary, and it gives one a feeling of immense satisfaction to no longer require them for non-physical exploration, but they can be useful learning tools, and should be recognized as such in a society genuinely interested in knowledge, wisdom, and love.

Blessings,
Dave


"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by asstray85:
I agree bear.  If you are going to reply to this topic, dont reply on impulse and express your knowlege of drugs, because dmt is different.  It is naturally secreted during meditiation, therefor if you take it externally its equivelent to intense meditation.

hey there Steve...

I guess my problem with that outlook is the fact that you achieve a certain state without the discipline which goes along with it.  

In other words, through meditation, one learns to listen to their thoughts and their inner voice.  As they go deeper and deeper, they may start to experience vivid images, sounds, and other phenomenon.  Now, if a person were simply able to smoke/swallow something which would take them right to the vivid images or sounds, this bypasses all the inner discipline that was normally needed to get there.

"So what?  If I can get from point A to point C without going to point B, how is that bad?"

I'm not really saying it's bad, persay.  To each his own.  However, from my own experience, knowing that I had to work hard to achieve this meditative state on my own has allowed me to grow stronger as a spiritually minded person.  There is no doubt in my mind that I have made this progress through sheer determination.  If I were to have smoked/swallowed something, then there would always be that thought in the back of my mind that this 'substance' contributed to my experience and not me myself.

People will also say, "But taking this drug is no different than buying a hemi-sync tape.  Both are external 'tools' used to achieve the same goal."

My only contention with that is that hemi-sync still utilizes a lot of mental control and focus.  A lot of these tapes guide a person through the process which one must focus on in order to achieve the right F-level.  It has nothing to do with stimulating or introducing chemicals into the body, regardless of what is produced naturally.

Anyway, I'm not perfect.  This is just my two cents.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[James S]

Ahh, the old drug debate....
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGNNNNNNNNNNMMBLAH!!!!!!!!!!

Yes some drugs are very useful to us. If I didn't squirt some unmpronounceable chemical up my nose at the first wiff of Spring, I'd sneeze my head off. If it wasn't for good old Warfrin my father would likely be dead. I'm also familiar with the effects of dope and LSD having used it a bit myself for fun, so I'm not speaking as a unmarried marriage councellor on psychoactive drugs.

To expand on a point of Jeff's:

quote:
"So what? If I can get from point A to point C without going to point B, how is that bad?"

Maybe there was something at point B that you really needed to learn before going on to point C. If your purpose for such drugs is just a quick fix to achieveing a result then fine. If your purpose for achieving that result is anything to do with spiritual growth, then you've just missed the point alltogether. The journey is often more important than the destination.

People have commented about the need for learning in traditional ways when there is the internet with its incredible wealth of information readily available. Trouble is gaining quick access to knowledge does not bring with it the wisdom needed to use such knowledge to full benefit.

As to the fact that such drugs are often used on shamanic practices, well...give  a hammer and chisel to a trained and skilled sculpter and you'll have a work of art. Give that hammer & chisel to someone completely untrained and you'll probably have a big mess and a lot of bloody band-aids.

James.

[coral1]

Hi All
      My experience with DMT(30 years ago) was similar to what Peaceful described.I smoked it in crysal form for a couple of months:strictly for the rush which is overwhelming.I stopped using it after noticing memory loss,inability to concentrate and spooky times when my brain just sort of drifted off.Hey lets face it: something that powerful has got to be bad for you!If anyone feels the need to open the doors of perception with chemicals, do like Bear says and stick with the plants.It`s a gentler and safer road.I downshifted to the slow lane a long time ago and while I miss gettin rocketed into another dimension at least I can enjoy the scenery along the way.
    Happy Trails

coral1

[Daniel]

When asked, Terence McKenna said  to have had only ONE lucid dream (no OBEs) in his life.
So what did he knew about multidimensionality? I believe his 'back to the caves' theory is irresponsible hedonistic entertainment sustained by rethoric whitout any real contribution to the evolution of consciousness. Or what did he meant by: 'life´s purpose is a big party'? He also theorized that the world ends in 2012 and that mushrooms are actually alien inteligence...

-Daniel

[Tom]

The matter of hallucinogenic drugs seems to be more closed off to me than astral projection seems to be. Am I the only one here who has read about people who used lucid dreams to get drunk and take drugs? Often the "buzz" would have pleasant effects lasting several days. Other people on diets would plan to use lucid dreams to eat their favorite foods rather than doing so in the physical. It is hard to accept that someone who has never used hallucinogenic drugs can have a lucid dream about using them, but it is actually much better this way. Imagination can provide a much better experience than reality for most things.

[Rolling Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel:
When asked, Terence McKenna said  to have had only ONE lucid dream (no OBEs) in his life.
So what did he knew about multidimensionality? I believe his 'back to the caves' theory is irresponsible hedonistic entertainment sustained by rethoric whitout any real contribution to the evolution of consciousness. Or what did he meant by: 'life´s purpose is a big party'? He also theorized that the world ends in 2012 and that mushrooms are actually alien inteligence...

Daniel, you should read the source, not some distorted reductionist attack on McKenna that probably comes from a debunker's webiste; each of the ideas you mentioned has been mangled or taken out of context. Are you a professional disinformationist?

McKenna had no "back to the caves" theory. Rather, he believed that our modern yearnings toward neo-tribalism are a nostalgic longing for the timeless golden age of prehistory, during which humans regularly took part in mushroom ceremonies, and lived in an eternal, loving, spontaneous, orgiastic moment. He never theorized the world would end in 2012; rather, his Timewave software seems to indicate that in 2012 -- along with the beginning of the next Mayan calendar -- there will be a single, defining moment, perhaps the anomaly of anomalies, which he calls the "eschaton", or end of time. This in no way means the world ends, merely that it ends as we know it. It could be that time travel is dicovered, for instance, which would have profound effects on group awareness. McKenna believed that all of history was a psychic resonance of this central moment. Seems like an interesting idea, and you display a hidebound nature by so casually dismissing it.

Also, McKenna had many, many astral experiences; that he only admits to one lucid dream and one OBE (you say) means nothing. I've read his experiences, and understand that he indeed traveled interdimensionally on a regular basis. His own technique was more akin to phasing. So what?

There are compelling reasons to believe that mushrooms are "alien" in nature and intelligence. For one thing, they give us an experience of something so completely other that, once you've taken them a few times, you understand what McKenna and others meant by this assertion. Also, the spores are capable of traveling through space, and conceivably arrived on our planet from somewhere else.

Besides, why should there be anything wrong with him making such claims? You're really one to talk -- someone who hangs out on a bbs devoted to astral travel. Is that any less "strange" or "unbelievable" than the idea of aliens, or an eschaton?

You have no understanding of Mckenna's theories, and I suggest you either read his works or avoid discussing them



"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Rolling Bear:
That's an extreme oversimplification, Frank.

Yep, you can't get things too simple where I'm concerned.

Funny, I was reading a story today about how, decades ago, NASA discovered pens were useless in space. So, to solve the problem, they hired Anderson Consulting. It took them ten years and twelve million dollars to come up with a solution. They devised a pen which worked at zero gravity; upside down; under water; and on practically any surface: in temps ranging from below freezing to around 100 degs C.

At the same time the Russians were beginning their own space program and had the same "useless pen" problem. They solved it by using a pencil.

Yours,
Frank

[Rolling Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
Yep, you can't get things too simple where I'm concerned.

Frank, you imply that "simple" is always better. Is that so? And if so, why?

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
...NASA discovered pens were useless in space. ...It took them ten years and twelve million dollars to come up with a solution. ...At the same time the Russians were beginning their own space program and had the same "useless pen" problem. They solved it by using a pencil.

Your "pencil" metaphor is inapplicable to the topic under discussion, which is: are so-called "external" triggers, such as some psychotropic agents, useful in the pursuit of non-physical exploration? Or are so-called "natural" induction methods by definition preferable?

You may be as simple as you wish, but please try to address the topic at hand.


"Each whole is simultaneously a part, a whole/part, a holon. And reality is composed, not of things nor processes nor wholes nor parts, but of whole/parts, holons." --Ken Wilber

[Daniel]

quote:Daniel, you should read the source, not some distorted reductionist attack on McKenna that probably comes from a debunker's webiste; each of the ideas you mentioned has been mangled or taken out of context. Are you a professional disinformationist?

Out of context? Next, you´ll say to not take McKenna's ideas so literally because what he realy ment...
Unfortunately there was a time that I ( in my ingenuity) read McKennas books. So, the ideas that I mentioned are mine and in my limited life understanding I just can´t take McKennas work seriously. Take no offence but I will simply quote your sentence to illustrate the reason for this.

quote: Rather, he believed that our modern yearnings toward neo-tribalism are a nostalgic longing for the timeless golden age of prehistory, during which humans regularly took part in mushroom ceremonies, and lived in an eternal, loving, spontaneous, orgiastic moment.

btw, who´s modern yearnings? And the rest, what does it all mean? Or is it just romantic new age poetry?

[asstray85]

The extraction process for dmt seems very annoying, and i wouldnt want to mess it up.  I have made up my mind to buy H.B Woodrose seeds and extract the LSA from it which is similar to LSD and experimenting with that during meditation.  Theres alot of positive information of LSA and if i dont want to extract it i could just eat 10 seeds for a full flege trip, compared to 200-300 morning glory seeds required for an equivelent result.  Im ordering the seeds tommorow night and will try it out when i get it in the mail.  It is alot easier to obtain and extract compared to DMT and is a friendlier version of lsd.  I will tell everyone how it works out.  I smoke pot frequently and it gives me the ability to distinctly feel energy in my body and move it around, yes it has caused me to not even bother to try when i am not high, but at least ive gotten a taste of it and when i am practicing without pot i know what to expect.  I feel other drugs can do the same.  I dont know who mentioned that dmt causes brain damage, but if that was true then everyone who practiced intense meditation on a regular basis would be causing themselves harm as well i would suppose?.

-Steve

[coral1]

Hi Steve,
        The bad cognitive side effects I experienced came from taking large doses of a pure drug: way more than the brain produces during meditation.It`s the chemical overload that produces the result.
        Anyway I wish you success with your explorations.Maybe you could find someone to act as your guide.It`s reassuring to have somebody there who`s done these things before.As for cooking up your own internet potion take care. Best to give the first dose to the cat or the dog. If you gotta scape them off the ceiling you`ll know your on the right track!
       Happy Trails

coral1

[SiVA]

drugs just suck, ok

[Tisha]

Ah, I guess I'll quote James here:   ARRRRHGHTHGHGHBLEAH.  The old drug debate.  

Where do I fit in?  Both "sides" actually, having "been there."  I really do see.  I'm taking the time here now to explain why most of you should not touch the stuff . . . not now, at least.

Native tribespeople ingested mushrooms and other plants for spiritual guidance/change.  They didn't hide out in their mud huts and tipis and secretly experiment alone with plants that were banned by their communities.   Rather, they saw the plants as actual beings, and "communicated" or "shared their being" with them under the watchful eyes of skilled medicine men/women, as part of serious shamanic-type training.   This training "changed" them, and the community welcomed this change as important and necessary.

What I'm trying to say here is that  this issue needs to be viewed in its CONTEXT.  Think of the way tribespeople lived their lives, the way they viewed reality.  Compare and contrast this to your ordinary modern life and the way YOU AND YOUR COMMUNITY live and experience reality.  Big difference, eh?

However, if my ramblings leave you un-moved, and you feel you MUST attempt a drug-induced psychedelic experience, please avoid the man-made drugs and try mushrooms instead.  Mushrooms really are intelligent, alien, happy (even goofy) beings who will teach you many lessons, most of which you never expected or even felt you wanted.   These lessons might cause you much suffering . . . but then again you asked for it, right?

Because you see . . .  please never let go of the Truth that wherever you go, THERE YOU ARE.  You, with all your psychic BAGGAGE.  Mushrooms, or any other psychedelic drug, won't make you spiritual.   To the contrary:  they will simply turn on the amplifier and big screen for you and THERE IT ALL WILL BE IN SCREAMING TECHNICOLOR for you to deal with.  

Which can be a good lesson sometimes.  Sometimes you need that.  It took a serious miscalculation (I won't say overdose) of mushrooms for me to "get" this lesson many many many moons ago.  I pressed on with my experimentation because I felt the mushrooms were important to my spiritual growth.  They were . . . not for the psychedelic experiences themselves, but for the hard, unexpected lessons that came from using them.  

Now I don't touch any drug that doesn't come from a pharmacy.  I know that i I can reach my mental/spiritual objectives without chemical interference.  Nowadays, when I get a spiritual "lesson" it is given to me at the level that I can actually take.  I like that.


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Jeff_Mash]

Well said, Tisha.  =)


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com