NOT everyone

[apop]

There are some people who do not have a soul, when they die their spirit becomes absorbed
into the collective consciousness like raindrops in a lake.
Only people who become awakened have the ability to continue after death as a soul.

True and False. But this is misunderstood and read literally, like most Men read the Bible. Yet they believe they have total knowledge of things, when they don't even know what they are and why they are!. The rest is up to your intelligence to find the reasons.

One thing I learned from the "planet of the apes" is that religion IS for apes-  

[bloodsong]

when is the spirit put into the body? or when does the spirit own the body?

The Qabalistic answer for this:  At the first drawn breath.  Ancient Qabala holds that the method of reincarnation is that souls come from the realms beyond to be reborn, but must find their own vessel, one is not appointed to them.  Souls basically wait around the womb for the birth, and are the child's first breath.

Occasionally there is a fight between souls wanting the same vessel, if you will, and fighting in close proximity to the child.  This can cause damage, and was the old explanation for birth defects of all types.

So, under this theory, is it possible for a child to be born without a soul to occupy it?  Definitely.  Will that child live?  Never.  You see, the divine spark of life imparted by a mother and father was only enough to power a single breath.  After that, the link to God provided by the soul was needed to sustain that spark and generate a fire.  Symbolics at its earliest.

Bloodsong

[apop]

I didn't know you are a rosicrucian, bloodsong-

[bloodsong]

That is because I am not, just very well read.

That one, though, came from a rabbi I knew in Austin.  He taught me a lot.  Said he didn't mind, thought the teachings of mystic Judaism were too scant in America, so it was okay to break the taboos of only teaching other Jews, as long as Gentiles had to work really hard for the knowledge!  Two hundred yards of fence repair later, I had two days to learn.

Bloodsong

[apop]

when is the spirit put into the body? or when does the spirit own the body?

The Qabalistic answer for this:  At the first drawn breath.  Ancient Qabala holds that the method of reincarnation is that souls come from the realms beyond to be reborn, but must find their own vessel, one is not appointed to them.  Souls basically wait around the womb for the birth, and are the child's first breath.

Occasionally there is a fight between souls wanting the same vessel, if you will, and fighting in close proximity to the child.  This can cause damage, and was the old explanation for birth defects of all types.

So, under this theory, is it possible for a child to be born without a soul to occupy it?  Definitely.  Will that child live?  Never.  You see, the divine spark of life imparted by a mother and father was only enough to power a single breath.  After that, the link to God provided by the soul was needed to sustain that spark and generate a fire.  Symbolics at its earliest.

Bloodsong

it is not only that. it depends on power of the parents-
and also the media- fe; barbie-type, the weakest and youngest form of souls? are created by media, not by parents! and from that form of "plastification" they do not have a soul-
I wouldn't forget about pre-adamic organic portals also-  

[Tracerammo]

Well, what I've come to accept is the fact that 'you are not your mind' and 'you are not your body' but the witnessing agent of those and everything else.

The one observing is the soul.  It's the true you.  You have life right now.  You are thinking about your soul.  You are aware.  The 'eye of the eye', the reason we "are" is our soul.  Everyone has a soul, even the murdering madman.  He has a soul, but the mind aspect of the trinity is really out of alignment...

Conclusion:  We (all of the life that exsists) exist because we have a soul.  The soul is the intrinsic foundation of life.  They're the same thing.

[apop]

The one observing is the soul.  It's the true you.  You have life right now.  You are thinking about your soul.  You are aware.  The 'eye of the eye', the reason we "are" is our soul.  Everyone has a soul, even the murdering madman.  He has a soul, but the mind aspect of the trinity is really out of alignment...

Conclusion:  We (all of the life that exists) exist because we have a soul.  The soul is the intrinsic foundation of life.  They're the same thing.

funny. I would say:

The one observing is the consciousness.  It's the true you.  You have life right now.  You are aware.  
and I would say not everyone has a consciousness!  
it is simply, not interest of many-
and if someone says: NOW YOU ARE AWARE!
many would rightfully ask: BE AWARE WHERE?  

[Tracerammo]

The one observing is the consciousness.  It's the true you.  You have life right now.  You are aware.  
and I would say not everyone has a consciousness!  

If you look into a chain linked fence, you'll 'see' diamond shapes between each folded metal wire.  Those diamonds aren't there on there own, but a result of the wires.

Consciousness is not there on it's own, but a result of a soul.  All things that are alive have souls.  Not all things that are alive have a consciousness, but are still alive.

The soul is the part of you that you can't think about.  When you think about it, you're only hinting at what you think it is with words (which are themselves the by-product of communication, not actually what the words are labeling.)  A soul is life, and life just is. Maybe...

[apop]

well, I am not christian, but you say pure conscious cannot exist?
without (god who gives) souls?        

[apop]

well, I would always sacrifice soul for a consciousness!  
I would give her to the devil for the consciousness of absolutely all!  

yes, but the soul gives power of movement in the cosmos-  

[apop]

I would say organic portals are 95%of planet. all borg.

[knucklebrain1970]

Can anyone else, like myself just not come to grips with nonexistence? My dad is from the "when your dead, your dead" mode of thinking.

I exist. Whether it's body, soul. I exist. I feel as though I always existed. How can I just not exist? Can anybody explain that?

The more I read about this crap, the more confused I get. We're all just chasing answers for questions that will never be answered. It's part of the game you see.

Then I read that aliens are farming our souls? WTF. Talk about depressing. Beam me up Scotty.

Kevin

[Nay]

Can anyone else, like myself just not come to grips with nonexistence? My dad is from the "when your dead, your dead" mode of thinking.

I exist. Whether it's body, soul. I exist. I feel as though I always existed. How can I just not exist? Can anybody explain that?

The more I read about this crap, the more confused I get. We're all just chasing answers for questions that will never be answered. It's part of the game you see.

Then I read that aliens are farming our souls? WTF. Talk about depressing. Beam me up Scotty.

Kevin

LOL..awwww, it's ok Kevin..    Best to just take everything you read with a grain of salt.  You'll drive yourself into depression and it will just keep running around in your mind...   As long as you're happy with yourself, why worry about the rest, know?

:abduct:   Nay  

[knucklebrain1970]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced we know nothing. What pisses me off is the game. It seems like a game to me. A big tease, with either SH*T at the end or GOLD. One or the other. I want answers dammit. I do what you say already however. It's just the possibility of certain things that depress me, like the alien soul farming thing. There are thousands of people that actually believe this.

I want to be with loved ones when I die. Just like in the bible. But nope, that's not going to happen. I'm going to have to come back HERE. What the hell is the sense of loving anything? Everything just dies and our memory is RAPED.
NICE HA?

The more I read, the more I am convinced that we know nothing. There's my new signature. LOL


Kevin

[Nay]

Having a bad one, huh?   Sorry bout that...just don't let your brain explode.  

It is sad that alot of people believe that, but that is their path and as long as one of them isn't here trying to convince me, then I'm good. hehe.  

What makes you think you won't be with loved ones when you die?  And I know it sucks living in this topsy-turvey world, but we can only learn.   Sounds like your learning, just the bummer end of it at the moment.

I bet in a couple days something will happen to make you forget you even had this moment of, I'm tired of it feeling.  

Take Care,
Nay

PS.  I suggest STOP looking for answers, just live ....you'll be very surprised that they will find you.

[knucklebrain1970]

No, I'm not that upset, just Monday. It'll be over soon. I'm trying more and more just to do what you said, just read stuff and form my own opinions. It is my belief that I can have my afterlife the way I want it to be. There's gotta be some kind of reward for living on this planet right?  

[MisterJingo]

Can anyone else, like myself just not come to grips with nonexistence? My dad is from the "when your dead, your dead" mode of thinking.

I exist. Whether it's body, soul. I exist. I feel as though I always existed. How can I just not exist? Can anybody explain that?

I guess non-existence could be likened to unconsciousness with no memory, i.e. undergoing general aesthetic and the hours you were under is less than a second to your conscious awareness as it's not recorded or even experiences of coma patients who have lost years and it seems instantaneous to them. Non-existence could be like this apart from you would never wake up.

Although if there isn't any afterlife it might not be all bad. Something I posted elsewhere:

I reason that if there is oblivion on death (yes I have projected since childhood, and do have some convincing evidence we are more than the physical body - I just can't totally discount all potential theories which have some weight - well until I truly do die   ) and we are the product of a physical brain/genetic pattern, we will live again an infinite number of times. In infinity infinite possibility must be carried out (even within certain strict rules) so the conditions to produce 'you' will be reproduced an infinite number of times. With oblivion there will be no passage of time, so even if vast amounts of time pass between each recreation, it will literally be instant to 'you'. Another theory I've reasoned is that consciousness is the same in each of us. That is every human who exists (and potentially every aware life form) shares the same basis of consciousness, individuality arises from different life experiences. So in effect every person on this planet is you but with differing life experiences. What this means is that if death is oblivion, you will exist in the next new born child. Not as 'you' but as a new point of consciousness which is exactly the same as your core. So either way, if there is life after death or not, we will be back

[knucklebrain1970]

What about free will? Don't tell me I have it, because in my waking conscious state, right now, I choose that I do not want to come back. I do not and will not accept reincarnation.

So if I must reincarnate, who's pulling the strings?

Now you'll say that my soul chose this right? Well if my soul chose this, then there are 2 of me and I'm not running the show, right?

Now these are the questions that plague my mind.

[MisterJingo]

What about free will? Don't tell me I have it, because in my waking conscious state, right now, I choose that I do not want to come back. I do not and will not accept reincarnation.

So if I must reincarnate, who's pulling the strings?

Now you'll say that my soul chose this right? Well if my soul chose this, then there are 2 of me and I'm not running the show, right?

Now these are the questions that plague my mind.

Well I think free will is an unknown quantity with our current knowledge of the universe. I'm sat on the wall in regards to it. If I jumped either way it would be purely on the basis of belief.

Regarding reincarnation, if I refer back to the two possibilities I wrote above, no one is pulling the strings. With the first, it would be a purely mechanical action of the universe i.e. certain conditions arising which would be the same as those creating you now. But you wouldn't have any memories of any other existence.
The second would be similar. Our brains producing what we perceive as consciousness, this 'you' who replied above is simply this base brain-generated consciousness with your life experiences and genetic circumstances directing your outlook, personality, beliefs etc and creating a seeming individual.

If we believe there is existence of awareness after death, then I really don't know. Many religions and practices have their beliefs, but they are purely their own beliefs. I guess we'll just have to wait for death and see what happens .

[Nay]

In my opinion, you DON'T have to come back if you don't want to.  Even while not in this physical body I think we continue to learn and I would think at a faster rate seeings how there is no human conditions to deal with there.  

So, when we feel we are done learning, then we're done learning.  But I don't think we ever stop..... just where we go to school at..

It's ok to be angry at the world, people....the whole injustice of it at times, just don't make it your life work.

Nay

[knucklebrain1970]

Well, I already understand many things that it would take lifetimes to learn. I don't get angry anymore. Well just on the Internet

No, seriously, I have witnessed rage, knives, blood, violence with my parents for 18 years. I have lived in a rage for 33 years. I always wondered why I felt like crap and had no energy. ATTITUDE

That was my #1 revelation. The second one was my firm belief that "nothing gets in" meaning, no bill, no person, no job, is allowed to get inside me and produce a unwanted emotion, unless I deem it necessary to be there.

I also go about my days being nonjudgmental of things and humans. This is the most monumental task for me. I try not to overpower others with my opinions. Until opinions become truth to others, they are meaningless to others. Like telling people it's bad to smoke. Come on.

I do not empower the past either. I can dwell in misery with the memories of all the blood and violence I have witnessed and play the victim, or I can forgive and move on. I have forgiven my parents. I just choose not to associate with them. My choice.

The only other real barrier I have to overcome is that I create my reality with my thoughts. I have dreams. I focus on them continuously, but I have core defeatist beliefs firmly embedded in my subconscious that tell me my affirmations are useless. My waking conscious believes, but my subconscious does not believe that outrageous things are possible, like me being wealthy and not having to work as a corporate slave.

I've given up on meditation. I just fall asleep and nothing happens. I've meditated for about 3 years and there is no benefit other than feeling good and having a better perspective on life. However that's not my goal. My goal was to see the miraculous white light, meet Jesus and Buddha and all that and go places. It's obvious to me that some people just can't meditate and astral project.  I've spent countless hours trying. I give up.

So in my 35 years, I see how things work. I see how we are here to love and to help and to learn. I see how the environment is going to force us to be a union rather than trying to one-up others all the time. Other than having attachments to the people I love, the hobbies I have and my identity, I see no reason to come back. Supposedly you have to give up all you love and let it go to become enlightened. I don't see that happening. I love my wife and daughter. I want to be with them for eternity. Why can't I have that?

Kevin

[Nay]

I don't see that happening. I love my wife and daughter. I want to be with them for eternity. Why can't I have that?

You can...

I see you've hit that wall that screams, why can't that happen to me!!?...... I've done everything to make it happen...I deserve more, I turn my back on all of you!

Been there done that...  I've learned a couple things since then.  The minute you start feeling sorry for yourself, life is gonna throw something at you to make you feel even MORE sorry for yourself..lol  thus throwing you into this stupid cycle that I want to spare you.

Falling asleep is not the worst thing in the world.  And can I assume when you say, "My waking conscious believes, but my subconscious does not believe that outrageous things are possible, like me being wealthy and not having to work as a corporate slave." means you aren't aware of your dreams anymore?

I already said you can't go around looking for answers....scratch that...you can't go around expecting answers, or a burning bush in this case.   I have no idea why it works that way..LOL..Yet the minute you start expecting things because you feel you've done something to deserve it, it seems to null and void it.  

BUT.........  there is another aspect to this.  You expect things because of what you read about, heard or otherwise.  That is a huge driving force in what we feel or think these days..especially for the younger peeps.  No offense but I'm surprised you're 35...

You read stories of people doing this and that in the astral, or doing this or that in the physical.  Well, most people are.....embellishing, or flat out lying,  thus giving the idea that it's a snap.  In a sense, it is.......once you get the snap down.  

So, your feelings are valid!  LOL..didn't think I was gonna say that, or did you?  In a few days Kevin, you'll see.  Stop thinking...

Take Care,
Nay

[Dartan]

I think I know where Kevin is coming from on creating his reality.  I'm a firm believer in that your thoughts/beliefs make your life, but until recently had a hard time realizing this.  What finally made it click for me was a license plate I saw one day that read RELAX.  You have to relax in everything, and I mean everything you do.  Whether it's driving to work or playing sports.  When you relax your mind things become clearer.  After I truly started to relax I was able to think and believe in what I was thinking and eventually it started to manifest itself in my life (now, I'm not talking about winning the lottery, just small things...not that I don't think your thoughts can make you wealthy, that just takes time and to truly believe).

For example, I drive an hour and a half each way to work.  It seems that every other driver on the road p*ssed me off in some way (whether it was justified or not to be upset).  Now when I start to get upset (while driving or with anything else) I tell myself to relax.  I can't control what other people do, but I can control how it affects me.  Granted, there are still times I do get upset, but they are fewer and far between and I think eventually it won't happen anymore.  Now when I drive I think of thoughts of how I want my current life to be and I can honestly say my life is much more happier now than it's ever been and slowly but surely my life is changing to match my thoughts.

I took me years to really believe in my thoughts, but now that I see it happening in everyday life, it's much easier and gets easier by the day.  I mentioned above that I believe you can will (for lack of a better work) yourself wealthy, and for a while I thought that was something I wanted.  But I found by examining what I really want that wealth isn't a high priority in my life.  I do believe that someday I will be wealthy, but first and foremost are my son, wife and truly being happy with myself.  Oh, and wealthy to me means having enough money not to have to go to a job working for other people who could care less about myself and my priorities.

As for what happens in the afterlife, I don't think you know that until you do die.  I do have my own thoughts on this and to an extent I believe my thoughts on this will manifest in the afterlife as well.  Right now (and I don't see this changing) there are only two things holding me to this current life; my son and wife.  If it weren't for them, the afterlife might be really attractive!

Dave

[apop]

I think, "we" should not look through emotional perspective.
with Intuition yes, with Intelligence yes, with consciousness yes, but not through astral barrier of emotions.  
my Friend yesterday, look at the woman in one restaurant. she was certain she is a puppet! and then she moved(the puppet) and my friend was amazed!

[Zentiger]

I don't come by these parts often, but this caught my spirit's interest so as runlola requested I am going to add my thoughts.  To be very direct, and some may not like to hear this, I think we should be spending our time trying to become awakened in case this is true!  Time is running out... don't wait till you die to find out if this is true or not.  Awaken!

There are some people who do not have a soul, when they die their spirit becomes absorbed
into the collective consciousness like raindrops in a lake.
Only people who become awakened have the ability to continue after death as a soul.

Namaste,
Zentiger