Do you need Sleep before you AP?

[TheEleventhHouse]

Yeah thats my question, do you normally need sleep before you AP or is it something that you can do when ur about to go to bed? (>are Rem periods Involved?)

[AndrewTheSinger]

Yup, most of the time I go through the normal sleep cycle 4 - 5 times before I A.P. Eventually something happens and I'm ejected from my body after the first stages of Non-Rem sleep.

[lily moonsong]

I read somewhere in Gavin Frost's book on astral projection, that all of your fleshly desires need to be satisfied before you can astral project.

1.) You can't be overly tired.  You should have slept before trying it
2.)  You can't be horny while you obe...
3.)  You can't be hungry while you obe...
4.)  You can't be stressed out while you obe...
5.)  You can't be too full when you obe... so you shouldn't eat a large meal before trying it.  Best not to eat anything except a couple small bites of steak and some water.
6.)  You need protection to obe, whether it be protective jewwelry, a protective circle, or spirit guardians
7.)  You can't be around metal and electronics when you obe.

I just wanna see, these things aren't writen into stone.  But if you check off all of these on the list, it will make the process a lot easier.

[cobalt]

Indeed interesting points...
BUT, where will you find a place without electronics in flat..city..? (even worse, my room is stuffed and was stuffed with all kinds of excrement, old PCB's, wires etc)
Second, isn't physical protection more important, like to be 100% sure nothing will go wrong in physical thus making feel safer and protected psychologically?

A little offtopic: even if i havnt projected, ive red numerous times (including this one) that electronics interfere with astral projection, so this means astral projection could(hmm, i guess its more like should, but who knows?) interfere with electronics/wires etc... so what observations, you, expierienced projecters, have made, maybe even some intended experiments, to get a starting point for some research.

[TheEleventhHouse]

Wow. . . haha i didnt know electronics affects people when they AP, thanks! But Hey- if u need 4- 5 hours of sleep before you AP- wouldnt that be like Lucid Dreaming?

[lily moonsong]

I didn't put them in order... I was just listing some stuff i remember from the top of my head..

[Selski]

Hi everyone

My thoughts on a couple of things:

Regarding electric - in my opinion, I believe what's happened is that one person had a problem with electrics, wrote about it, a bunch of people read it.  When they next projected, they came across anything electrical, remembered what they had read, and had problems with it.  And so on...

I've never had a problem with electrics when projecting.  Possibly because I choose not to have a problem.

Lucid dreaming and astral projection are extremely similar (again, in my opinion).  I do believe that when we lucid dream, we are astral projecting, but perhaps we still have remnants of our dream left, and so the experience can still be a little hazy, or the odd thing happens. 

The difference in my absolute 100% astral projections is that the environment is incredibly stable and solid, the colours are more vibrant than physical life, and the characters are getting on with their own lives, regardless of my presence.  I return from an astral projection feeling like I've "been" somewhere far away, somewhere as real as the physical.

Finally, I think the level of lucidity has a lot to do with how we view our experiences.  When we are 100% lucid, we tend to class the experiences as "higher" or "astral" or whatever.  I'm of the opinion that all our projections, astral and RTZ, dreams, lucid and non-lucid, are as valid and important as each other.  It's just that when we are doing our normal dreaming, we are less lucid and tend to dismiss the messages that are there before us.

One final thing - don't believe everything you read.  Including this post.  It is only "truth" for me.

Find your own truth. 

Sarah

[TheEleventhHouse]

Yeah that kinda makes sense, self inflicting damage. And i have a friend who Lucid Dreams , i told him about Astral Projection and he says that OBE and AP they're all dreams, whereas the person dreams that hes out of his body. But yeh they're seperate things. I've tried conscious astral projection , i''d normally get to the Vibrational stage and then everything fades and nothing happens , dont know what to do, just wondering how long does it take to master conscious ap?

[Enlightenment1]

I've just had my first OBE and it was totally different to any Lucid Dreams I've had, totally! It felt so real (just like our real, physical life), not like any kind of dream, Lucid Dream.

Most people find it easier to project if they wake-up in the middle of the night by setting an alarm to wake them, then trying to project as their body falls back to sleep. This is how I did it and it came very natural. Unlike when I try to project from meditation in bed at night before I go to sleep, I haven't had any success yet on this front, but many people do.

[TheEleventhHouse]

Well congratulations on your first (You'll be saying that to me  eventually) , and yeah I've read about how APs are differnt from Lucid Dreams (I'm a Lucid Dreamer myself). I've had Lucid-Dream Out of Body experience, dreaming bout how i got out of my body in a dream, and i've heard you can induce OBE's with Lucid Dreams, how do you do that?

[kiwibonga]

So you guys have a built-in reality detector that allows you to tell whether an experience was a lucid dream or an OBE without making any validations upon waking?

You know, a lucid dream can feel as real as waking reality, and an OBE can be as muddy as a "regular" dream. What you should look for when you want to classify the experience is not how real it felt, but rather the whole induction process. If you distinctly felt the shift to the "second body" and then felt vibrations, then felt this sudden "rush" of energy or heard a roar, and then started floating up in your room and went through walls... Well, indeed I would call that a "real OBE" ; but it's not that anything else is not "genuine" -- it's just not possible to know what happened.

[TheEleventhHouse]

Yeah but do u mean they're realli similiar?

[kiwibonga]

Several authors have theorized that whether you project inwards or outwards, you will always be projecting away from your centerpoint, which is physical consciousness. The "realms" or "dimensions" exist within you just like they exist outside of you. In other words, when you have a lucid dream, you project inwards, but this does not necessarily mean that you are shutting out the outside world and living in your own fantasy, you can access many things that are external to your consciousness.

A lucid dream is technically an out of body experience, and has all the same properties, except that you are not projecting an energy double into the world, rather, you are projecting within yourself without creating a double.

The problem lies in terminology and the people who keyed the terms... "Lucid dream" was keyed by scientists who do not believe that there is anything supernatural about dreams (probably because they did not research them that way), which then made people believe that dreams and lucid dreams are just hallucinatory experiences created by the brain. However, many, many accounts by people on these boards, other boards, in books, etc, have shown that there is much more to dreams than mere illusion.

If you've read the texts on phasing for example... Those are technically lucid dreams, yet they also happen to be powerful out of body experiences. Because there is a confusion on what is real and not real, adepts of phasing rarely call their experiences lucid dreams, simply because someone out there decided that a lucid dream was a "fake experience," which is in fact plain wrong...

They are different experiences, the induction process will tell you what happened, if you witnessed it:

1. You fall asleep.
2. Somewhere along the way, you wake up or become conscious, but in heavy trance.
3. Consciousness switches to the "second body."

4a. Imagination creates a landscape, a "clairvoyant screen" is created around you, like a bubble around your consciousness. This is a lucid dream. You are projecting inwards.
4b. You see your room clairvoyantly through your closed eyelids, you roll out of your body and find yourself in your room. This is a RTZ OBE, this "genuine experience" we all aim for and have read about numerous times in books.

It is possible to "revert" and switch between both states... You can destroy the dream landscape and attempt a RTZ projection, or your projectable double can snap back to your body and suddenly dwelve into a lucid dream.

Sometimes you may experience a mix of both -- things will appear around you while you are clairvoyantly seeing your room, like in terrorizing sleep paralysis experiences... Or you could be out of body in the RTZ and suddenly have lamps turn into dinosaurs for no reason at all...

So yes, they are extremely similar, and if you ever dream that you're flying around your room, there's no telling whether it was a dream where you reconstructed the landscape from memory, or whether you were "really there," just don't push it aside as a "mere dream" because it could be so much more!

[TheEleventhHouse]

So it is possible to Astral Project when your lucid dreaming, right? By shutting yourself off from your dream and waking up knowing your body's still still asleep. I better start doing that if Im ever gonna AP.

[Awakened_Mind]

Let's get this straight - AP is a natural process that occurs when we sleep.

That established, the only real issue people have is remembering the experience.

Some newbies confuse the idea that projectors predominantly exit as they are falling asleep with the key variables, concentration and awareness. As a rule of thumb, the more tired the less concentrated.

When you are extremely tired, your astral body will be a lot looser but you will be a lot more prone to falling asleep. That's why it's better to be well rested before AP attempts.

Note: It is not impossible to AP when dead tired, just more difficult. As a newby (Sorry if I'm wrong) you should be aware of this.

-AM

[TheEleventhHouse]

Yeah personally I've tried it, got pretty knocked out. So what should I do to make further progress in AP'ing? Any suggestions? -AP experts please help 

[yesjoryyes]

"The easiest way to achieve OBE is to skip two nights sleep. This is 99% effective. But this is not very practical for anything more than just having the experience."  - Robert Bruce

[Awakened_Mind]

For further progress you have to put in the yards. Work on energy body development and trance techniques. There's plenty on these forums many people will gladly assist you.

-AM

[Enlightenment1]

So you guys have a built-in reality detector that allows you to tell whether an experience was a lucid dream or an OBE without making any validations upon waking?

You know, a lucid dream can feel as real as waking reality, and an OBE can be as muddy as a "regular" dream. What you should look for when you want to classify the experience is not how real it felt, but rather the whole induction process. If you distinctly felt the shift to the "second body" and then felt vibrations, then felt this sudden "rush" of energy or heard a roar, and then started floating up in your room and went through walls... Well, indeed I would call that a "real OBE" ; but it's not that anything else is not "genuine" -- it's just not possible to know what happened.

Can't get no realer than this -

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_experiences/i_did_it_last_night_way_hey-t25397.0.html

It's my story of my first OBE (inc's, vibrations, floating, buzzing, etc,etc,etc *wink* *wink*).

[Enlightenment1]

Well congratulations on your first (You'll be saying that to me  eventually) , and yeah I've read about how APs are differnt from Lucid Dreams (I'm a Lucid Dreamer myself). I've had Lucid-Dream Out of Body experience, dreaming bout how i got out of my body in a dream, and i've heard you can induce OBE's with Lucid Dreams, how do you do that?

Hey thanks! I look forward to saying it to you, keep us posted....

I think when you're Lucid to just basically will yourself into the Astral or OOB. I'm not sure though, best ask someone who is more experienced. I'm sure that's what I've been told though, just will yourself and go with the flow.

Good Luck!

[kiwibonga]

Yup, but what about the "lucid dreams" you've had -- how do you know they weren't genuine projections too?

[TheEleventhHouse]

I guess you cant really, as a lucid dreamer ur taught that pratically anything unexplained in ur experience is just created by your head adn subconscious. But theres some paranormal about OBE rite? I been trying to do Trance exercises and now its giving me a sleep disorder, cant sleep realli well lately, cant fall asleep somethings wrong 

[Awakened_Mind]

Firstly OBE's are nothing Paranormal. Some skeptics in fact use this term as a means to sway people away from OBE's by associating them with fake psychics etc. Whats worse is some projectors think they are elite or above the general population because the have the ability to become consciously aware during a normal state of the sleeping cycle. Often elaborating the ability as something grand and spiritual. Not that OBE's are not, but let's not exaggerate. We have a long way to go.

-AM

[kiwibonga]

OBEs are paranormal events and will remain so until the "normality treshold" goes up a notch...

[Enlightenment1]

There is nothing "paranormal" about them lol. We all have the ability, end of!