Final Death?

[dRealM]

interesting idea.. i have thought about similar situations.  my question isn't always death but life itself.  do we chose who we are before we are born.. for some reason i think we do.. but i mean if it is possible to chose our life can we chose our death?  i sometimes feel like I'm dieing before my failed attempts at AP.. i hear a sound and my breathing changes and the sound feels like is circling around me and i feel like I'm supposed to let go.. stop breathing stop feeling my heart beat.. but my problem is if it feels like death.. how can i possibly let go and accept death?  this is one major block i seem to have when i comes to a conscious AP

[Domingess]

no,its impossible. spiritual evolution is forever.

[WANDERLEI]

Why is that??

[Lighthouse]

Hi everyone.  Interesting discussion.  I find it increasingly difficult to find a worthwhile discussion to respond to in here so thanks for the opportunity.

well now that is a pickle. Even if someone had reached these higher planes of existence outside the comprehension of the physical mind, they would still not be able to explain such a thing to those around them. The only way to find out the answer is to experience it yourself.

You are correct it is shocking how small humans are in the scale of things which are not even on a scale as they are endless...:S.

Just imagine how spectacular it would be to not only extend yourself beyond the comprehension of mankind, but also be able to travel to those other countless planes beyond the comprehension of even the highest life form. Now thats farfetched.

Thing is, at those higher levels, "someone" doesn't exist.  Individuality fades and becomes a feeling of unity as you reach higher levels of consciousness.  This is why any Master will laugh at you if you ask the question, "Are you enlightened?" Because the master has an intimate understanding that the more intimate you become with yourself (your True and GodSelf) the less you cling to your individuality because your understanding of the expansiveness of your Being is realized. 

Those other "countless planes" are also illusion.  The illusion was created so there is something to experience.  Without the illusion there would be no experience at all, just perfect everything/nothing and lack of space and time.  The illusion is comprised of space and time and is witnessed through perception.  The individual is merely a minute perspective viewpoint within space and time.  Without these perspective viewpoints, the illusion would cease to exist.

[Lighthouse]

because i think the ultimate meaning of life is to reach this level of conciousness, only once this has been achieved can you just stop existing if that is your choice. We are bound to this world until we can break free from it either through ascention or death, but only with ascention have we proven that we have outgrown the physical world entirely and therefore have the choice of how we wish to exist.

your next question was what powers or abilities would you gain. With ascention and enlightenment comes the ultimate understanding and knowledge of everything around you. Also your mind will no longer interfere with your actions or with anything that the mind first thought as impossible. What you could do is only limited by your imagination or the right energies needed to complete certain tasks. All it would take is time and training.

Loppoppy, I seem to be drawn to responding to your posts

Enlightenment is not knowledge and understanding.  It is the release of learned knowledge.  Also, individuality is entirely ego so "you" can't just choose to stop anything.  That would imply independent volition and that "you" are separate from the Whole.  "You" are not an individual, "You" are the Whole and "you" are All of everything.  It is only your perceptual awareness that makes you think you are an individual with independent volition.  "Everything around you" is still illusion.  Indeed everything is limited by your imagination but enlightenment comes with a "Letting go" of everything you perceive to be true and as a friend of mine says, "Flow with the go."  IOW, just flow and give up any need to control.

Great discussion here

[loppoppy]

haha i'm always reading back on my previous posts and seeing how i was wrong. You guys always have a way of making me a better person. I'm not great with forums and find it hard to get my opinions across but i appreciated people correcting me it always makes me laugh. thanks again just thought i'd mention.

[Awakened_Mind]

Enlightenment is not knowledge and understanding.  It is the release of learned knowledge. 

Enlightenment is a mans emergence from his own self-incurred immaturity.

-AM

[Lighthouse]

Enlightenment is a mans emergence from his own self-incurred immaturity.

-AM

Okay and what does that mean to you?

[Awakened_Mind]

Okay and what does that mean to you?

What a strange question.

-AM

[Lighthouse]

Is it?  You call yourself "Awakened Mind" this question should not be so strange for you if this is true.  So, I'll ask it again.  You are claiming that enlightenment is a persons emergence from his own self-incurred immaturity. What does that statement mean to you?  IOW What is "a person" what is "emergence" what is "self incurred-immaturity"?

[Awakened_Mind]

You and me are persons.
Emergence - the process of coming into being.
Self-incurred immaturity - when we know better, but we fail to act.

For the record, I call myself Hayden. Awakened_Mind is a display name I found appropriate upon registration that people on these forums call me.

Secondly, it is still a strange question. You are not really asking "what it means to me" you are asking "what does that mean?". Don't you think? I am well aware of what it means to me, because I said it. Unless you are saying that you know what I meant more than I do? Which would be even more peculiar.

-AM

[Lighthouse]

You and me are persons.
Emergence - the process of coming into being.
Self-incurred immaturity - when we know better, but we fail to act.

For the record, I call myself Hayden. Awakened_Mind is a display name I found appropriate upon registration that people on these forums call me.

Secondly, it is still a strange question. You are not really asking "what it means to me" you are asking "what does that mean?". Don't you think? I am well aware of what it means to me, because I said it. Unless you are saying that you know what I meant more than I do? Which would be even more peculiar.

-AM

Actually, I was asking "what it means to you" because everything we think, feel, experience is a result of our perceptual awareness and I was trying to find out how that looked from your pov.  I would not proclaim that you could tell me what it means to "me" so thereofore I didn't ask you "what it means."  To ask you that would imply that your perception was the ultimate authority for ALL... it's not, it is merely a perspective.  Since we experience the world through our perceptual awareness, "What does that mean to you?" is really the only valid question to ask since the meaning from your pov and the meaning from my pov will be different.  BUT you can help me to better understand your pov by answering the question. 

From my pov your quote below means something different, the colored portion would be my interpretation from this perspective of what you were trying to say.  The words you choose don't resonate with me so I would go more for feeling of what I believe you were trying to say.  "Self-incurred immaturity" seems judgmental and convoluted to me so I would not use that terminology (which is why I asked the question in the first place.)  I will interpret your statement from my pov. 

Enlightenment is a mans emergence from his own self-incurred immaturity.

"Self-Awareness is an individuals release of borrowed belief systems."

Personally, I don't believe we are actually individuals, we just appear to be (the illusion) I also don't believe we really have any control over anything so to lay a guilt trip and judgment of "self-incurred immaturity" holds the undesirable behaviors in place.  Just looking will do and acceptance of what is will get you to a point of self-knowledge.  Self-knowledge to me is "Enlightenment" but the big question then is, "Who is the Self?"  Well that is why Self-knowledge would be important  .  Know Thyself and you know everything because you ARE everything.

[Awakened_Mind]

You say

"Actually, I was asking "what it means to you" because everything we think, feel, experience is a result of our perceptual awareness and I was trying to find out how that looked from your pov"

and then

"Since we experience the world through our perceptual awareness, "What does that mean to you?" is really the only valid question to ask since the meaning from your pov and the meaning from my pov will be different."

I'm assuming you still cannot see the paradox.

If I state "Enlightenment is a mans emergence from his own self-incurred immaturity" that's how I mean it.  Asking me to explain something I have said and saying "it's because we all see the world differently, so I need you to clarify your perspective" creates a paradox. In explaining what it means to me, I am stating more things that require explanation in coincidence with my perspective. Over and over again. The way I see the explanation is different than the way you see it, as the way my initial statement meant different to both of us.

The only way to eliminate such a conundrum would be for both of us to speak objectively, which as you pointed out "To ask you that would imply that your perception was the ultimate authority for ALL... it's not, it is merely a perspective."

It's still a strange question, from my perspective.

-AM

[Lighthouse]

Okay fair nuf 

[Awakened_Mind]

I was beginning to wonder whether I knew what I was saying lol. +1

-AM

[Lighthouse]

Huh?  What planet are you from and why do you perceive that God is separate from you?

[RD]

Like you said, I don't think that anyone here really knows the answers to any of this.  But you can look at it several ways.  One thing is certain, your life is temporary.  This existance won't last forever, and in the big picture it is a VERY short amount of time.  Who knows what will happen when we die.  Your prayers could be answered and you could very well end up dissolving into nothing when it is over.  I mean really, most of us hope that there is more to it than this, but the reality is that it is just as likely that there is no afterlife, this could be it. 

Direct Voice, Astral Projection, Lucid Dreaming, lot's of paranormal encounters, tunnels of light people have described. Think about it: there's a lot more stuff going on that points to the possibilitiy that there IS an afterlife then that there is not.

Anyway, I've deleted my posts because I don't really want to cause disturbance here, dragging others down too. Especially my second post that came right after your reply was probably even more disturbing, so instead I wanted to post this message about the afterlife subject. To me it's quite unbelievable that people in 2007 can still deny the fact that the indications of an afterlife outweighs the one-life theory in the extreme. It's almost like people don't want to believe in an afterlife, no matter what.

[carlhungis]

I am not saying that there is or that there is not an afterlife.  What I am saying is that nothing has been PROVEN either way.  I certainly lean more toward believing in the afterlife, but I have not been convinced.  It is one of those things that can't be proven, so we will all have to just go through it and see what happens.

Lot's of people experience lots of different things.  Like minded people tend to experience similar things.  Just because MANY Christians think that they have talked to god, does not mean that they are correct.  Every religion has it's own group of people that have experienced certain things that would have them believe that they are the only possible correct answer.  Just like scientists believe that through their experiments and studies that they are correct.  It all comes down to the fact that  nobody knows for sure. 

In my opinion it is just as closed minded to be absolutely sure that there is an afterlife as it is to be absolutely sure that there isn't one. 

I will delete my earlier post.  No need for it anymore.