The best kind of verification...

[T.L.]

Verification is always nice, of course it's usually personal verification. The best kind of verification is the profitable kind. Most projectors have a problem (including me) on including other people in a verification. However I have a few friends and family shaking their heads wondering now 'could he be right?'. I have been really busy lately with work, and not getting any sleep because of mine and my wife's schedule. This all revolves around a bet I placed, I'd have to review my journal at home for dates... perhaps I'll post that later when I get home from work. Never the less about 3 days perhaps a few more than that before I placed the bet I had an projection. I have always had my doubts about traveling in time (specifically to the 'future'). After witnessing things in the past in other experiences, from places I could not have memories from I knew that was possible. I always had a problem though with wanting to try to go to the 'future'.

I've had experiences where it sure seemed I did, but with those experiences only time will tell (probably from what I seen 5 - 10 years).  Never the less I found myself in my bed trying to go to sleep. I wondered to myself occupying my mind while I await sleep "I wonder who will win the superbowl between the colts and saints?". I get the vibrations, usual obe sensations and I said awesome a spontaneous obe. However what I seen was just not usual. I found myself literally on a football field the saints and the colts on the field at what seemed to be the last play of the game. I didnt look for the scores as I was really too preoccupied with "could I of caused myself to have a lucid dream by my super bowl thoughts?" I looked around to pay particular attention to who wins because I wanted to verify obviously. I found myself facing the back of blue and white uniforms and the saints on the other side. The colts were making an attempt. What I noticed next told me all I needed to know. I seen the colts' players bowing their head, and some even crying tears and not tears of joy.

I said thats gotta be it, the Saints win. Considering I do live in bloomington, Indiana I really had to ignore any bias. Sure I dislike Indiana in some ways and maybe even their team but I know they are a tough team, perhaps slightly overrated. Never the less. I struggled with thinking my obe must be a lucid dream because I had no real evidence that going to the future was possible, at least not to 'our future' because I do consider the many worlds theory to be pretty much the best theory on time/events...etc. However I when I sat up to get it into my journal I said well it felt like an obe, it was as clear as an obe, it seemed solidly objective to me as if I really was biased its always nice to see the home state team win even if you dislike them. I thought well it must be an obe then. So I stew on this for a few days. I go to work and I talk about it with a coworker. His brother believes in obe's but he doesn't so when I told him the Saints will win he thought I was nuts. He needed the Colts to win to avoid paying his boss 50 dollars. I said oh I know for a fact the Saints are going to win. He asked me how so I simply said in a joking way "I haaaaad a dream". Anyway I said to him (since he is a gambler) if he knew of a reputable online betting site based on Vegas odds. He said yep and showed me on his laptop. I asked him about the ins and outs of the site.

He told me if I did win it would take more than two weeks to cash out, and they charge 50 dollars to cash out. I said F* that I wish I was near Vegas and I would bet directly. He said "my father is in Vegas right now because he just got out of California from a hotel convention". I said no way, is there anyway he can place a bet for me? He told me that not only could he bet for me he could get a ticket and I could simply mail in the winning ticket and at no charge have a check cut and sent to me within two weeks. So his father placed the bet at his request for me at the Rio hotel and casino in Vegas, and brought the ticket back. I gave him the cash when he returned from Vegas for my ticket betting the Saints would win the Superbowl. The odds were 7 1/2 - 1 in favor of the Colts, the money line was +180 so for every hundred I bet I made a 180.... niiiiice for a team you know for a fact will win haha, I call those odds skewed (to my favor of course). Probability also told me (after already making up my mind of course to place the bet) that the Saints should have it. Anyway the rest is history, one thing I need to do in order to protect myself is to copy the bet ticket just in case anything goes wrong with the mailing of it.

However it was perfect verification not only to me but the one friend I did tell about the OBE, and well my wife is now thinking I might be evil by now... at first she just thought I was insane for placing the bet because not only were the colts favorited by the odds but no one thought the Saints had a flippin chance. So in fact I was not betting on the Saints to win, but I was betting on how confident I am that out of body experiences are legit and can be objective events if the projector takes care. I know this is a long ramble but I forwent my nap to watch the entire game to see if it is indeed what I experienced, particularly the last play which is where I ended up. So Im a bit tired. Also there are some Jehovah's witnesses (my mother told them about the obe's and the entire story regarding the bet before the game started) that now think that I am evil incarnate.  

Edit: Also if there are any Saints fans here, or just fans of Mardi Gras here's a nice link to a live streaming feed on Bourbon street: http://www.earthcam.com/usa/louisiana/neworleans/bourbonstreet/

[Greytraveller]

Hi T.L.

Great experience! Yes, time travel in the astral DOES occur. It has not happened to me (yet) but judging from the dozens of OBE reports written by other projectors time travel OOB does happen. It seems to be mostly a random event that very few, if any, people can control at will and most of those who do time travel usually end up sometime in the past.

btw thanx for the link. I lived in and near New Orleans for three years.  So I am a Saints fan (but cannot claim to be a BIG Saints fan). I do have relatives and friends in Indiana though (Ft Wayne and New Castle) so was also sorta sad to see the Colts blow the big game. 

Regards 
Grey

[T.L.]

I hear you on that, I just couldn't deny the reality of my experience so I put money on my confidence that the obe experience is a reality (esp when the projector is able to hold bias in check and be objective) that was what I bet on. I know time travel does occur in out of body experience, particularly the past thats happened to me on a number of occasions. The experience with the future I had a while back (about certain buildings, and driver less buses) is just something I couldn't verify well because its years away if it was the real deal. I had my doubts about future travel because of the many worlds theory, it just seems to be logically a pretty valid idea about events and how consequences of those events combined with the idea of them happening and not all depending on free will would end up splitting time in a way to create a new timeline for what could of happened but didnt.... my explanation of it does not do it justice esp when I am so tired. My doubts was that if you could go into the future in the obe that the odds of ended up on your own 'timeline/world' in a number of next to infinite worlds/timelines would be significantly long, like winning the powerball lottery for instance. Perhaps that theory is wrong, or perhaps there is something that would draw us in the obe state to our own timeline, just like belief system territories pulls those in who are like minded willing or not. Hard to say. However I'm wondering about the lack of responses to this insane verification.

Its a win for the obe experience in terms of having factual evidence that it is indeed real. I know, that perhaps the lack of responses might be because well most people don't believe me. So for people who were hesitant to reply because they simply did not believe me here is the proof for you. Here are photographs of the front and back of my bet ticket I placed after I had my experience. I redacted all ticket identifiers so it could not be copied/counterfeited. Also note I redacted the monetary value of the ticket because I do not like discussing money even with relatives. It's the single worst topic to talk about along with politics. Religion is something I do discuss because it is less taboo these days. Now note the straight bet for the Saints to win. +180 MLB means for every hundred dollars bet you win 180 dollars for if you bet 300 dollars for instance you would win 540 on top of the 300 you bet, so you would get back 840 dollars..etc. MLB stands for Money line bet. I also took a picture of the back of the ticket so you could see it was a legit Rio ticket. Here you go:

[vipassana]

I was pulling for the Saints, but I would have bet on the Colts. If it's not proof of OBEs, that was one ballsy bet!

[T.L.]

Thanks. I was just betting on my confidence that the obe state is real. I was 100 percent confident because I've already verified distant locations, buildings, and other events before from my other experiences. This is something I try to tell people when they try to say "it's just a lucid dream" or something like "lucid dreams and obe's are the same thing". They aren't but I think people are mislead to believe that because of people/authors like Stephen Laberge who are adamant that they are. Perhaps one day they will realize there is a huge difference, but people who only have lucid dreams come to believe it's one and the same with projections.

I even remember seeing some people here use the words obe or projection interchangeably with the word dream. Maybe this will go a little way to show these people that they aren't, and then again maybe they will just suggest it's luck. Trust me Im not a gambler I would never place money up based on 'luck' heh. Last time I went to Vegas the most I would gamble was 30 dollars the entire 3 days I was there. I am not the type to just give money away knowing its not coming back lol. My coworker who's father I had place the bet while he was in Vegas has come around 180 degrees. He told me today he wants me to teach him how to project, that's pretty amazing considering on the 3rd he thought I was insane. His brother used to live here and he knew about my little 'journeys' and told my coworker about it. He talked to me later (after winning the bet) and realized I was talking about an out of body experience and not a dream. Now he wants to try his hand in it lmao. One person at a time I guess. It's just funny how some people are not interested in it unless money can be made from it. I'm not like that but it was a target of opportunity and spontaneous, so why not take full advantage? 

[SkepticBoy]

hmmm the odds were 7 and a half to 1? could your win not just simply be coincidence? why don't you try it again with some other sporting event?

[Xanth]

hmmm the odds were 7 and a half to 1? could your win not just simply be coincidence? why don't you try it again with some other sporting event?

That's the big problem, there's no way to know and we *NEVER* will really know.

[SkepticBoy]

That's the big problem, there's no way to know and we *NEVER* will really know.

But that's the thing, if he was to successfully foresee the outcome of a sporting event where the odds are a lot higher then it better proof. 1 in 7 could too easily be co incidence, 1 in 50 would be more proof.

[T.L.]

No offense but it wouldn't even matter if I had video evidence of some sort that could verify the out of body state, because then it could just be faked. No matter what kind of evidence there is regarding anything there is always a possible rebuttal for it. If I pulled something off like the powerball lottery for instance where the odds are 1 in 195+ million it could still be chance whether how far removed chance is or not. So in reality there is not a real way to prove to someone it's the real thing, which is why I suggest (more than enough) that people go out and prove it to their selves. If in anyway I thought there was a chance that my experience wasn't solid I would of not bet a dime because I am not a gambler, so there is not any acceptable loss for me because I do not like handing out money on chance. I look at that as one of the dumbest things a person can do. The only thing I can say is that this is added to all other personal verifications I have racked up.

When it comes to the out of body state most verifications are personal because obe's can not be set to a watch. One week you may have almost 8, the next maybe 1, and the next month maybe 0. Sometimes a person can go a few months with little to no experiences simply because of stress. When you are in that kind of position and you are a projector when you finally get out the next time are you going to be more preoccupied with trying an experiment simply for the benefit of a friend or are you going to do what you want to do. It's not like the physical where even if you don't want to do something you can do it, if you would rather fly through the sky or go 'elsewhere' that is what you end up doing. If doing something you are not interested in doing in the first place also involves traveling it just does not happen.

I can't really explain it but the projector has to be interested in doing whatever it is, if he or she is not they run up against a wall each and every time. I've tried different tasks friends have suggested over the past year and if I wasnt interested when I finally got out either it just wouldn't work or I became distracted ending up doing something else. It wasnt until we worked on why and what I was interested in before we had some success. Getting to the out of body state is a gift (and no I dont mean gift as in gift from god) is something that you cherish when it happens, and you don't want to waste through a task you are not interested in when you have already personally verified the experience. If I were to get out the last thing I would think about doing is spying on a future game I think it was more of a want or perceived need. You see for the past month or so I've been putting together a nice computer for myself. Total cost is around 1,000 dollars so I decided to do it part by part so I wouldn't spend money I need for other things.

I also thought it would be nice to come into the rest of the money I needed to put it together finally. Only 2 days or less before that particular out of body experience I was trying to come up with a way to get the rest of the money, betting wasn't part of that heh. Anyway before the experience I was just trying to sleep nothing else, not even project. A stray thought about wondering who would win the Superbowl popped into my mind and honestly I decided at least to myself the Colts are probably the better team. With that stray thought I hit the vibrations, which oft occurs when the mind is either just starting to blank out or is distracted, and there I was on the field last play of the game. The difference this time around is I was thinking of a destination just as the vibrations hit which is not something I usually do. More often then not by the time the vibrations hit I have more control over my thoughts and I just sort of blank my mind in my belief that if I am not mentally active the transition goes more quickly. Its just a habit and it took a heck of a lot of practice. Anyway I think that may have done it, and perhaps maybe it is not a bad way to travel rather than to try and 'teleport' because that is something I still can not get the hang of. If I will myself to the location just as the vibrations are strong enough that might do the trick (even on purpose). 

[SkepticBoy]

No offense but it wouldn't even matter if I had video evidence of some sort that could verify the out of body state, because then it could just be faked. No matter what kind of evidence there is regarding anything there is always a possible rebuttal for it. If I pulled something off like the powerball lottery for instance where the odds are 1 in 195+ million it could still be chance whether how far removed chance is or not. So in reality there is not a real way to prove to someone it's the real thing, which is why I suggest (more than enough) that people go out and prove it to their selves. If in anyway I thought there was a chance that my experience wasn't solid I would of not bet a dime because I am not a gambler, so there is not any acceptable loss for me because I do not like handing out money on chance. I look at that as one of the dumbest things a person can do. The only thing I can say is that this is added to all other personal verifications I have racked up. might do the trick (even on purpose). 

Come on though I mean if you posted a ticket picture like you did just then of your gambling victory, but with the odds higher say like a 1 in 15 chance of winning or something then you'll be proving to yourself and everyone here you can do it. Pls dont go off on a rant about how you don't need to prove it to yourself or anyone else but this is important, this could be proof of seeing into the future.

You have proved you can do it already with your ticket bought before the event so why not go ahead and do it again pls but do it with a gambling event with higher odds and of course post the ticket picture before the event. I mean you'll make money so you certainly got the reasons.

[T.L.]

Pls dont go off on a rant about how you don't need to prove it to yourself or anyone else but this is important, this could be proof of seeing into the future.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about what I want or don't want to prove it's about what people's definition of proof is. As I said photos or videos to a lot of people are not considered proof of anything anymore with all the advances is digital manipulation..etc. For instance right now someone could just say the photo I posted was forged and there would be no way for me to prove them wrong on the net. So the point is the same could be said if I were to repeat the success. I never said I do not need to prove anything to anyone, but it all does come down to interest and circumstance. The out of body state is not an easy thing to control, and one stray thought could even end the experience or have other effects. If doing what I did with the football game was on purpose, of course I'd be doing it every chance I got.

I happened to be pondering who would win while laying in bed relaxed and I was 'ejected' (for the lack of a better term) into the out of body state. It's not like I got out into my room, then purposely transported myself to where I ended up. Once again don't think I wont try again, but I stated from the beginning it just happened spontaneously. Of course if I succeed again with this kind of projection I'll be sure to post it. I just am not sure you get how subtle and hard it is to attain the obe state repeatedly on cue, it's almost next to impossible to do it on purpose over and over and over again on demand. This is just one of the reasons it isn't a scientifically proven thing yet, it can't be reproduced in a lab setting over and over and over again.

[SkepticBoy]

I think you are missing the point. It's not about what I want or don't want to prove it's about what people's definition of proof is. As I said photos or videos to a lot of people are not considered proof of anything anymore with all the advances is digital manipulation..etc. For instance right now someone could just say the photo I posted was forged and there would be no way for me to prove them wrong on the net. So the point is the same could be said if I were to repeat the success. I never said I do not need to prove anything to anyone, but it all does come down to interest and circumstance. The out of body state is not an easy thing to control, and one stray thought could even end the experience or have other effects. If doing what I did with the football game was on purpose, of course I'd be doing it every chance I got.

I happened to be pondering who would win while laying in bed relaxed and I was 'ejected' (for the lack of a better term) into the out of body state. It's not like I got out into my room, then purposely transported myself to where I ended up. Once again don't think I wont try again, but I stated from the beginning it just happened spontaneously. Of course if I succeed again with this kind of projection I'll be sure to post it. I just am not sure you get how subtle and hard it is to attain the obe state repeatedly on cue, it's almost next to impossible to do it on purpose over and over and over again on demand. This is just one of the reasons it isn't a scientifically proven thing yet, it can't be reproduced in a lab setting over and over and over again.

Alright I see what your saying, yeh its hard to prove it and yeh its hard to do. Why don't you just pick a gambling event with more odds
against you and do it anyway? I mean you got nothing to lose of course so long as you keep the bet at a minimum just in case it is wrong. All you gotta do is declare who you will see winning and see if it happens. You would have to make sure you post the winning outcome a day or 2 before the actual sporting event. So you going to do it or not? I don't see why not seeing as you got nothing to lose (ok except like 3 dollars or something big deal!!) and something to gain here. Lets face it too, if you said 2 days before a horse race who the winning horse is, and that horse comes in, how can any of us really refute that? yeh theres a CHANCE it could be sheer luck but come on .....1 in 12 or whatever? that's a little more than just luck. Just do it anyway man pls. Ty.

[T.L.]

Alright I see what your saying, yeh its hard to prove it and yeh its hard to do.

I think you underestimate how hard, most people can't exercise self control let alone something like this that involves complete mental control. Like I said if it happens again I'll give it a shot. I'm actually going to work on how I went from the vibrations to exactly where I was thinking about when they kicked in. That's the first thing I have to reproduce. If I can do that on purpose then I should be able to end up anywhere I want.

[SkepticBoy]

I think you underestimate how hard, most people can't exercise self control let alone something like this that involves complete mental control. Like I said if it happens again I'll give it a shot. I'm actually going to work on how I went from the vibrations to exactly where I was thinking about when they kicked in. That's the first thing I have to reproduce. If I can do that on purpose then I should be able to end up anywhere I want.

Alright then so you have the right mindset on what you have to do. Next thing is to officially declare to us what sporting event you will be going to look for the winners for. If you could pls give the specific details of the event some days before the event then you could say at least a day or 2 before the event who will win and see what happens. If you going to do this please lets do it properly.

[T.L.]

Next thing is to officially declare to us what sporting event you will be going to look for the winners for.

It's interesting the way you talk, it's almost as if you are expecting me to have immediate results. There are a lot of hurdles first off is time. It may take some time to figure out why I was able to end up where I was thinking about as the vibrations kicked in. Not only will it be a trial and error thing, but at the same time I do not know when I'll have another projection. Sometime its only a day or a few days after the previous experience, sometime it's longer. It may take 3 or even 4 projections just to practice a reliable technique to go from my body directly to where I want to go that alone may take a while because I do not know how much time will be in between those projections. I think we already had this conversation before. This is the problem with lab experiments.

These things take a lot of patience. Then once I do figure out a consistent manner of going from point A.) (pre-obe and in body) to point B.) (out of body and at the target location/time) I still have to be able to reach the obe state in a timely manner (before said event), and since you can not force a projection at will anytime you want there is no telling I will meet the deadline. If that is the case and I don't I'd have to start all over again to find a different event. If people have suggestions then I'm open to them (techniques, or events that will not happen for a while). Also perhaps we can take this a different direction and someone could think of a question about a certain event that does not have a definitive answer for it that could perhaps be verified later so I'm not feeling like perhaps people are trying to profit off of me heh. Whatever the suggestion I'm all ears.

[SkepticBoy]

Also perhaps we can take this a different direction and someone could think of a question about a certain event that does not have a definitive answer for it that could perhaps be verified later so I'm not feeling like perhaps people are trying to profit off of me heh. Whatever the suggestion I'm all ears.

Well don't we need a definitive answer? I mean either horse number 4 comes in 1st or it doesn't (in example). Otherwise it is not proof.

I not looking to make money here, hell I probably not even in the same country as you and it would be too much hassle to even place a bet with a sporting event in your country with the winner that you have predicted.

I just want to see if it can be done I mean you have already done it once sir. It may take time with figuring out the structure and such of your projections but could we try and work out an event to go for? say one which is 2 weeks from now? 3 weeks? a month? you choose pls. We gotta have something to work with if you want to try this. This could be big news for this forum about the validity of OBE if you succeed. You got nothing to lose except a dollar or something (wow) .Ty.

[T.L.]

Actually yeah you live in England, almost forgot that. Has anyone ever told you that you make a lot of demands? It will take time, I believe I already said that. When I figure out what it is that I am going to do (only after figuring out how it is I went from point A to B and in a reliable manner) I will let you know. I have 3 to 4 hours of sleep a day, and that is on a good day so that is just one more thing I have to worry about time to set aside to make a projection (usually on my days off, or my wifes days off). Im not as lucky as most who can attempt any time I want. So I'll update this thread when I figure it out and what kind of event (whether sports or otherwise). I'm wondering if you are so into projection as you seem to be why don't you practice and make some attempts at it?

[SkepticBoy]

Actually yeah you live in England, almost forgot that. Has anyone ever told you that you make a lot of demands? It will take time, I believe I already said that. When I figure out what it is that I am going to do (only after figuring out how it is I went from point A to B and in a reliable manner) I will let you know. I have 3 to 4 hours of sleep a day, and that is on a good day so that is just one more thing I have to worry about time to set aside to make a projection (usually on my days off, or my wifes days off). Im not as lucky as most who can attempt any time I want. So I'll update this thread when I figure it out and what kind of event (whether sports or otherwise). I'm wondering if you are so into projection as you seem to be why don't you practice and make some attempts at it?

k ty. Do you have a very rough idea how long it will take to figure out a pattern you can use and do you have a rough idea what sports event you would consider looking at? I mean like horses or greyhounds or whatever, preferbly something with high odds say like a 1 in 10 chance of winning.

When it comes to me, I cant seem to OBE but I still try and will succeed.

[SkepticBoy]

Still trying T.L? (sorry just incase you forgot)

[T.L.]

I planned on this or my idea about the evp/tape recorder experiment. With my schedule I have to stick with just one thing at a time because right now I rarely get a chance to attempt a projection. For instance this week I'm just finishing up a 7 day work week. On top of that I get off about 7:30 get home by 8 and I have to wake up at noon. So if it takes almost an hour to fall asleep I get about 3 hours of sleep. Then once a week sometimes twice my wife will be off but lately she has kept waking me up regardless around 1. So it's next to impossible for me to even think about projection let alone become relaxed enough to project especially when I know I need to be up in 3 hours and as close to fully rested as possible because then I have 8 hours of keeping up with my 2 year old, then after that I have 8 hours of work. To be technical it's like working 16 hours a day with only 3 -4 hours of sleep a day. Exhausting to say the least.... 

[missym]

All I have to say is CONGRATULATIONS! 
You need not for other people to believe you, all you need is to believe yourself, and know the truth. This kind of verification must be extremely exciting!

[T.L.]

It is exciting when I think in depth about it, but not as much as it would be as it would if I already haven't made a lot of verifications. I have verified buildings, locations..etc before. Obviously making money on something I like doing anyway was a plus. Money rarely motivates me though, my point of view has changed drastically since all of this began with me, and even before that money was still not an issue with me. I simply refuse to go out of my way to make money, however if I happen upon a opportunity to make money I'll take it... if not I am not going to search high and low for it. Perhaps something in a past life... who knows. I just look at it in another way. You can spend your entire life working, screwing other people over, cheating...stealing (like some corporate types) and amass yourself a great fortune. However on your death bed, what will you really have, what will you be left with? Will you be happy with your life and say "well at least I made a lot of money". Is that the legacy anyone would want? To me it really makes no sense.

Intelligence and wealth are not always synonymous, and the truly intelligent really understands in the end there is nothing to be gained for spending one's entire life in the pursuit of money. Back to the topic though, excuse my rants on almost zero sleep. Anyway what will be more exciting to me are proving, and applying theories I have came up with from observations I have made. From inside and outside of the body. Projection offers average and intelligent people alike a unique perspective, even if they are scientifically minded or not. Perhaps even more-so for people like me who are not only interested in science but also put a lot of stock into science. These people are the ones who can really see how to apply science to really explain the mechanics behind the obe state, and to see the shortcomings of our understanding of science. Like this theory I have about how memories are not actually physically located in the brain, if I'm right about this it would go a long way to understanding alzheimers and at the same time this theory would allow for and explain why memories of a past life are under normal circumstances inaccessible. These types of things are really the most interesting to me, and sometimes people find it hard to believe that another human being wouldn't try to use the obe state for profit only. Anyway... enough ranting.