Is the brain necessary? and other thoughts

[podizzle]

This question has been bothering me a lot. If the brain is necessary to astral project then that means that all entities existing within the astral dimensions have a physical brain somewhere. If this is the case astral projection would just be a brain phenomenon for the living who have unlocked its secrets. There would be no afterlife, because the dreamworld would be for physical beings only. Most depressing.

I tend to believe that the brain is not necessary for the astral world. We have no physical body within the astral so there is no need for subconscious mechanisms such as automatic heartbeat, breathing etc. This would also mean there is no true death. The fact that astral travelers like Frank Kepple & Robert Monroe have had encounters with deceased entities agrees with this theory.

Right now my energy body is weak. I can barely see in my dreams, and I have no vibrations upon falling asleep. I will get them back in time with energy work, but this leads to another question. If one is to die with a weak energy body, would their consciousness improve to a more concrete reality upon death? Will suddenly consciousness be as real as waking reality in the astral dimensions because the consciousness is no longer tied to the physical body?

I wonder if Frank's level 2 system of reality is accessible after death, since it is the subconscious mind. I would guess that upon death the consciousness is phased to another focus level, and we would feel as alive as we do today here on Earth. Either way I intend to explore all the realms before death, so I am prepared for what lies ahead on the other side. Maybe I will answer some of my own questions through my own explorations. It sure would be nice if I could go to a nice F27 Hawaii beach at night and not have to pay for the ticket!

I'm sure I'll see some of you there, as soon as I get my energy levels up to par. Last time it took only 2 weeks of meditation twice a day 15-20 minute sessions. After that my energy body was so strong I had vibrations every time I fell asleep, and lucid dreams every night. Unfortunately I had some frightening experiences and was scared away. Five years has passed and this time I'm ready. I'll rip off a demons head and tinkle down its throat if i have to! Happy travels!

[soli]

I don't think the brain is necessary when you don't have a physical body, since the brain is physical, it would be to me like asking if you need a physical hand as a point of energy residing in the f3oC. The real question then would be to me, does the brain exist beyond f1 or is it only needed so that we may have perception of f1?

[podizzle]

maybe we don't even need it to have a perception of f1. we just need it to maintain a physical body and interact with the world. I would guess that observation is allowed of f1. Maybe only in public places, however that would work is beyond my understanding but then again so are many of the laws of they physical like gravity, dark energy, etc.

[soli]

Well, what do we need the brain for then if it's not for perception of f1? It transports energy from f1oC to f2oC? As an example, it translates waves into a certain sound in f2oC. In f2oC -> f4oC, there are no waves to translate into "sound" thoughts, so the brain is not needed.

[Xanth]

In my opinion, your PHYSICAL BRAIN is nothing more than the computer that runs the hardware/software that is your physical body.
Nothing more.  No, it's not required for Astral Projection. 

"There is no true death".
This is correct... since you were never alive to begin with.
*YOU* are not your physical body... *YOU* are the you that has the connection to your physical body.

Yes, Focus 2 is available to you after your physical body ceases to function.

[podizzle]

so do you guys think that upon death our energy body remains the same or would it be enhanced to a level like our waking reality? I wonder about this because what if someone where to die while they were lost spiritually. Their energy body would be so weak that they would have no lucidity in the afterlife and existance would be limited to some foggy dreams for all of eternity. For some reason I'm thinking that death would be like waking up. Consciousness in the full. No need to pry open your eyes, look at your hands, fading in and out of lucidity, basically struggling to survive like I am currently in the astral. Anyway its a little extra motivation just in case to get your astral body in order in preparation for the next life.

[soli]

Energy essence is the same it will always be the same, it does not change, only the extent to which you are aware of what it truly encompasses does. When the physical body can no longer be sustained the consciousness's primary focus would no longer be in f1oC so they would have full lucidity in f3oC. It is my current belief, at least. You do not have a next life, simply a different area to experience.

[Xanth]

so do you guys think that upon death our energy body remains the same or would it be enhanced to a level like our waking reality? I wonder about this because what if someone where to die while they were lost spiritually. Their energy body would be so weak that they would have no lucidity in the afterlife and existance would be limited to some foggy dreams for all of eternity. For some reason I'm thinking that death would be like waking up. Consciousness in the full. No need to pry open your eyes, look at your hands, fading in and out of lucidity, basically struggling to survive like I am currently in the astral. Anyway its a little extra motivation just in case to get your astral body in order in preparation for the next life.

What you are now *IS* you.
You have the same conscious awareness There as you do Here.

~Ryan

[personalreality]

But, if you're still alive how do you REALLY know anything about the nature of your awareness?  You dont really know what will become of your awareness after your death.  That can have a big impact on how you see this whole projection phenomena.

To be honest, I find that mystery fascinating.

[Tiny]

Dear podizzle,

If one is to die with a weak energy body, would their consciousness improve to a more concrete reality upon death? Will suddenly consciousness be as real as waking reality in the astral dimensions because the consciousness is no longer tied to the physical body?

what happens at the point of death is that a perfect energetic copy of one's state of mind is created. This is why ife goes on except for the soulless humans of course.

And ironically many if not most inhabitants of the astral worlds are even less self-aware and much more deluded than people in the physical. There's a lot more "brainwashing" potential on the other side for some reason.


kind regards,

Paul

[zareste]

And ironically many if not most inhabitants of the astral worlds are even less self-aware and much more deluded than people in the physical. There's a lot more "brainwashing" potential on the other side for some reason.

I can imagine that. Our body keeps us coherent, even when our mind wanders. Like how you can walk a long distance while thinking about a video game you just played, and your body computes the walking behavior on its own, while alerting you if something strange happens. All made possible by the cellular brain

But if your body is shut down - like when you're asleep - you're just a detached etheric mind, and there's no supplementary system to keep you coherent. Your perception shifts, you forget things quickly, there's little focus - we know how crazy dreams can be. While your etheric mind is more powerful than your brain could ever be, most of us are not very good with it.

I think, if you die with a weak energy body, you'll be an alert spirit for a while (assuming you successfully sucked out your body's remaining energy) but if you don't find an energy source, you'll lose coherence and go into a dream-like state, and if you continue losing energy, your etheric form will degrade to a state of scattered information - where you'd still exist but only as part of the planetary mind.

[Xanth]

My point of view on all this is that I don't believe that your energy body can be weak or strong... it just IS.

When you die, what you are Here is exactly what you'll be There.
You can't "lose energy" or "degrade".

Although, if, when you die, you have certain beliefs, you will get stuck within those beliefs until you realize that they are nothing but a creation of your own subconscious constructs.

"Ultimate Journey" by Robert Monroe points this out fantastically.  I believe it's chapters 9 or 10...
Where he goes on a series of "retrievals".  Each time pointing out to the individual who had just died that they were in fact dead, yet he's met with questions like, "But how can I be dead when I'm talking to you right now" or "but I feel just fine".
Frank, Ginny and others from the old days of Astral Pulse also relayed such information to us.

To anyone interested, do a quick search on, at least, those two names and look for the subject "retrievals".
They're a very good read. 

~Ryan

[Stookie]

Your brain is for physical perception, but at the same time that perception is also governed by the etheric and astral bodies, just not consciously. They are always at work though, in our thinking and perceiving and imagining. Some also believe that memories are stored in the etheric body, which could give reason why some people can remember well and others not so well - it has to do with their etheric connection. Works with the astral body too, as it's the supposed source of creativity.

Our entire physical life is not just physical, it's all of these things. So in reality, without a physical body you're only removing the physical perception aspect, which is really a small thing in the grand scheme. Eventually you'll shed your etheric and astral bodies too and your experience in the physical will be (is already) stored in the infinite colorful curtain of experience.

[Bacterio]

DIFFICULT QUESTIONS!!!! Only can have opinions beliefs or theories.

I've think a lot about that...but I have only hypothesis.

As Xanth I think the brain is only a kind of computer used to act and be in a physical world.

I believe the energy body is important in our physical existence but has little to do with phasing, OBE or LD...people living in afterlife don't need that energy, if you have no body you can't have energy body as it is linked to it. Why ill people have sometimes spontaneous OBE's while their energy body is so weak? I don't mean that energy body has nothing to do with consciousness exploration but it's not as important as lot of people think (IMO).

[personalreality]

Like Stookie said, it takes more than just the brain for mind to focus into physicality.  The energy body provides a different level of perception, what you might call intuitive perception.  It's not necessary in AP because your consciousness isn't limited by the need to process physical stimuli.  Though I do think there are higher physical dimensions that we are capable of projecting too and that requires a vehicle just like we have our body in 3-D.  For that I think we use the "energy body", though I don't think it is the energy system that is connected to our body.  I think it is generated through intent and focus for the purpose of dimensional travel and discarded upon return.

[podizzle]

i am experimenting to see if raising energy during the day will increase my clarity of vision and lucidity during dreams. i dont think a physical body is necessary to power up the energy, but it does make it more convenient to be able to do it during waking hours while im totally aware.

the post about the energy body degrading into scattered information is pretty much exactly what i fear, but I'm not sure about having to find a 'source'. At least for me to increase my energy i can just draw it in as if theres an invisible energy field that is everywhere and nowhere. Seems even easier to do in a dream so I don't think it's anything physical.

[caterpillarwoman]

In my opinion, your PHYSICAL BRAIN is nothing more than the computer that runs the hardware/software that is your physical body.

Agreed, though I would add that there does appear to be some sort of interface with the holographic mind. For example, when certain areas of the physical brain are directly stimulated, it will cause the recall of memories or garbled speech or other things that are more of the mind than of the body.

Also, when you are unconscious, such as from general anesthesia, you completely lose the connection between mind and body, and therefore the physical universe/reality. When you awaken, you find that time apparently passed (and you may have a big wound from surgery or be missing some teeth or something!), but you have absolutely no recollection of it. Part of this can be attributed to the amnesia effect that anesthesia has, but part of it, I believe, is that your mind was disconnected for a while, and therefore did not experience whatever happened when you were disconnected.

(Yes, I thought about this a LOT the last time I had general anesthesia! LOL!)

[bluvisnu]

i think the brain is necessary just to grow to change the vibration/tune of the spiritual body and once on the other side without material body you stay what you are, no more evolution.
i believe we must download the consciousness totally into the spiritual body by knowing that we are more the spiritual body than the material body in order to leave the material body.
for the thoughts i think we just have to understand what they really are so we can be detached.
and for the level of energy when we loose the gross body you may be right, we must be prepared before the trip, in hinduism they say that your last thought will make your next body so we must thinking of God at this time is the best we can do.
in the east they learn how to leave the gross body ( at the time of death) consciously, i think it is the best way to go where we want...