Great explanations on proper meditation

[Psilibus]

There is a lot of wacky and overly-complicated (and just plain wrong) stuff out there that can really mystify simple concepts. For a beginner in AP (like a lot here), Frank tried to make this as straight forward and realistic as possible. I don't think you really have to have symbolic things to get a feeling of devotion and awe (spiritual-ness), or whatever-feeling that a particular ritual is attempting to invoke.

But if someone is more comfortable with rituals and invoking and evoking, go for it. I personally don't like the way I look in a hooded-robe.

How do you look in silk stockings and a kimono?

Sorry but once again someone is right AND wrong at the same time. Stookie, Astral Projection IS a ritual. It has really nothing and EVERYTHING to do with invoking and evoking. That in its very nature IS the process. I'm really surprised you would say such a thing. I have read many of your posts and wouldn't have thought it of you.

Xanth, like I said, we're not talking Harry Potter here. Sorry, no insult intended but if you look up "Magick", spelled with a "K" at the end and not "magic", without the "K", you will find definitions that might suit your taste or at least explain what I am talking about.

Astral projection is more than flyin around trippin out on chit, talkin to strange multicolored and sparkly folk who don't know what your meaning half the time. I know you know that. There are actual feats of accomplishment that impact this physical plane which have profound benefits. Meaning - you can learn and grow spiritually AND as a human being at the same time from the experiences you have through "phasing" or "meditation" or "OBE" or "traveling", etc. You can literally impact your future and the future of your loved ones by learning to manipulate the forces of the astral. It isn't DisneyLand for Gadz sake. There is purpose for the gift to travel. That IS the Magick. It has nothing at all to do with hooded persons. It has nothing to do with secret societies. It has nothing to do with the "Occult" except that is exactly what it is for the majority of society - OCCULT (hidden).

Why does semantics come to play in so many discussions when we all essentially agree? Different sources, same destination.

[Xanth]

I fully understand what you mean Psi.
I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.  

It's the idea that astral projection is "magick", that I want to dispel.
Nothing in this world is "magickal"... it's just not known how some things work.

I can totally, and completely separate "magick" from all this stuff we do.

~Ryan

[Psilibus]

LOL. Well good, we do both understand each other. It is unfortunate you will miss out on the "magic" of it. But we all have our paths. As I pointed out about my opinion of Frank, some just aren't aware of what their Great Work is. I will not make assumptions about you Xanth. Stick to your guns but despite your stance, "all this stuff we do" IS Magick. It can and never will be anything else.

I won't speak of it again unless asked. Too bad. I will try to understand your viewpoint better though.

[Stookie]

Sorry but once again someone is right AND wrong at the same time. Stookie, Astral Projection IS a ritual. It has really nothing and EVERYTHING to do with invoking and evoking. That in its very nature IS the process. I'm really surprised you would say such a thing. I have read many of your posts and wouldn't have thought it of you.

Ok, I suppose I came off kind of cocky, which wasn't my intention. I was trying to relate what Frank's methods are all about.

I don't mean to knock any methods, because like you said, it's different paths to the same thing. But I think the word I'm looking for is "practical". I believe that's what Frank was getting at, is making AP a very practical thing, especially for people that are turned off by magick and new-agey things. And I am a very practical, simple person, which is why his methods worked so well for me.

While external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc, have their place for certain folks, Frank found them unnecessary (myself as well). You have it all within yourself, and can do it without anything else. AP can be a practical thing.

That doesn't mean it can't still have a "magical" air about it. It can still rip everything you know about reality into pieces and give you a fresh, awe-inspiring change of perspective. What you experience is the major importance, not the method of attaining it.

[personalreality]

Check out a book call "Instant Magick" by Chris Penzcak

It's all about performing ritual in your mind alone.  Teaches you to create astral versions of all your supplies and work the ritual through use of "imagination" or dreaming (OBE or Visionary State).

[Psilibus]

OK, I suppose I came off kind of cocky, which wasn't my intention. I was trying to relate what Frank's methods are all about.

I don't mean to knock any methods, because like you said, it's different paths to the same thing. But I think the word I'm looking for is "practical". I believe that's what Frank was getting at, is making AP a very practical thing, especially for people that are turned off by magick and new-agey things. And I am a very practical, simple person, which is why his methods worked so well for me.

While external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc, have their place for certain folks, Frank found them unnecessary (myself as well). You have it all within yourself, and can do it without anything else. AP can be a practical thing.

That doesn't mean it can't still have a "magical" air about it. It can still rip everything you know about reality into pieces and give you a fresh, awe-inspiring change of perspective. What you experience is the major importance, not the method of attaining it.

Nah, didn't find you "cocky", not really. I actually appreciate cocky. My wife accuses me of that all the time.

Your right. Practical is where it's at. The "external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc" comment tells me something though. I'm not talking about Wicca, not that there's anything wrong with that. Never used any gadgetry or gimmickry in my life. Don't need too. And, that wasn't my point anyway. I think perhaps personalreality may understand where I'm coming from. Astral projection IS "all about performing ritual in your mind alone". There is just so much more possibilities and WORK that can be of benefit and there are traditions which have been around for a long time that are available to accompany the process. I'm not talking so much to the major posters here who apparently know their stuff, Stookie of course included. Actually I was hopin for more about my kimono comment than anything else at this point.

PR - heard of "Instant Magick", never read it. I'll take a look. I'm a Golden Dawn die hard. You know, the Crowley crowd. That is how I was raised. It has benefited me in more ways than I could explain. I've always seen some of the more recent (1970's and on) AP writers as lacking in true "practicality" though. Methods are taught and exploration is encouraged. It all seems more like enticement though. There is the "practical" side which is seldom addressed. That "ritual" is what allows you access to experiences unlike talking to "ghosts". How you can cause wondrous change in your life. Change that impacts your distant future(s).

All this starts though with proper meditation. That is the point of this thread, isn't it? Proper meditation. As I posited earlier -
"A great explanation of proper meditation would be to divulge what can actually BE accomplished with the process and so further encourage the initiate to pursue self-fulfillment."

PS> I think I convinced my mother to become a member and post. LOL...

[Stookie]

That is the point of this thread, isn't it? Proper meditation.

Here's a quote from Krishnamurti on meditation:

"You have to find out what meditation is. It is a most extraordinary thing to know what meditation is – not how to meditate, not the system, not the practice, but the content of meditation. To be in the meditative mood and to go into that meditation requires a very generous mind, a mind that has no border, a mind that is not caught in the process of time. A mind that has not committed itself to anything, to any activity, to any thought, to any dogma, to any family, to a name – it is only such a mind that can be generous; and it is only such a mind that can begin to understand the depth, the beauty and the extraordinary loveliness of meditation."

Makes me want to go meditate.

[Psilibus]

Yes Stookie, I like that. It is well put. I have quite a few books which discuss meditation, all from different religious and philosophical perspectives. They all agree.

'Tis a thing of beauty, the mind, when unfettered by daily trappings and clutter. It pushes forth like a golden blossom from the fertile source, shading the ego in its brilliance. The light of day is dimmed as illumination dawns across the endless horizons. - JMK