Can Anyone Help Me?

[NickisDank]

Hello everyone! ive recently began looking into astral projection the past 2 months pretty hard, and ive tried on several occasions to do so. But on the other note, the time i picked up astral projecting, i was looking into lucid dreaming as well. After reading a book for lucid dreaming; and researched the astral body  ive gotten myself very confused.

In the book Lucid Dreaming A Gateway To The Inner Self, the author has a section comparing and dis-comparing lucid and OBE experiences. But then he goes into saying he to has had a few OBE experiences where he was flying around his neighborhood and saw actual people, thus leading me to think he is on the RTZ(Real Time Zone) field?

In conclusion ive had about 5 lucid dreams the past month, or maybe astral projections. Because everytime i think im lucid dreaming im only in my area of where i fell asleep at the night before. So am i astral projecting and just forgetting about it and thats why im there everytime? So the question is, if you astral project and get out of your body, is it the same concept of lucid dreaming and doing what you want. On nights ive specifically practiced trying to astral project, ive fallen asleep but to find myself in a lucid dream?

Whoever helps, or reads this it would be GREATLY appreciated.

thank you

[Xanth]

If you've read anything that I've written, you'll know my answer. 

Yes...
Astral Projection is the same thing as Lucid Dreaming (which is also the same as Dreaming).
Basically, as long as you have the awareness, you can do whatever you want.  Yes.

[NickisDank]

i don't understand, their the same? So if you astral project successfully you see yourself come out of your body, did i just not remember this? And I thought there were multiple astral
"realms"

[Xanth]

I think you should read around here a bit.

See if you can figure out some stuff for yourself.
Use the forum search feature... it's great for finding likeminded posts. 

[NickisDank]

I think you should read around here a bit.

See if you can figure out some stuff for yourself.
Use the forum search feature... it's great for finding likeminded posts. 

So reading a book wasnt enough, and using only the top websites to research about either for this? my entire experiment with either is completely put on hold because of this, and your saying i should just try and search for the answer? i dont agree with what your saying. not like i already havent tried looking, there is no specific answer for this using the search button.

I just really want to know whats going on the past 4 or 5 times this has happend to me, am i astral projecting? or lucid dreaming. Like do you astral project then slip into a dream, then you can become lucid again thus being a lucid dream?

[personalreality]

here's what he's saying:

your experiences on the "nonphysical" are all the same experience from different perspectives. 

so, a dream is where you have little to no control and most likely no awareness of yourself.

a lucid dream is the next level of conscious awareness.  in a lucid dream you become aware of the dream and can interact and even have some level of control.  I like to call lucid dreaming, "content awareness" because you're usually aware of the dream but you don't remember that you have a physical body that is still lying on your bed. 

astral projection is then full awareness.  in astral projection you have what I call "contextual awareness" because you remember that you have a physical body and you can move beyond the content of the dream (i.e. you can do whatever you want). 

you are really the only one who can decide what your experience was because of the subjective nature of the experience.  but either way, you're viewing the same "place" in each of these experiences, you're just shifting your perspective, becoming a different version of yourself each time.  all forms of psychic vision are giving you a glimpse of what people call "the astral".  remote viewing, shamanic journeying, pathworking, dreaming, lucid dreaming, astral projection, clairvoyance, etc., all are forms of projecting your awareness into the astral to explore and gather information. 

[NickisDank]

here's what he's saying:

your experiences on the "nonphysical" are all the same experience from different perspectives. 

so, a dream is where you have little to no control and most likely no awareness of yourself.

a lucid dream is the next level of conscious awareness.  in a lucid dream you become aware of the dream and can interact and even have some level of control.  I like to call lucid dreaming, "content awareness" because you're usually aware of the dream but you don't remember that you have a physical body that is still lying on your bed. 

astral projection is then full awareness.  in astral projection you have what I call "contextual awareness" because you remember that you have a physical body and you can move beyond the content of the dream (i.e. you can do whatever you want). 

you are really the only one who can decide what your experience was because of the subjective nature of the experience.  but either way, you're viewing the same "place" in each of these experiences, you're just shifting your perspective, becoming a different version of yourself each time.  all forms of psychic vision are giving you a glimpse of what people call "the astral".  remote viewing, shamanic journeying, pathworking, dreaming, lucid dreaming, astral projection, clairvoyance, etc., all are forms of projecting your awareness into the astral to explore and gather information. 

I see, that was a lot of good information and im begining to see it a bit more clear now.

So pretty much all "leaving the body" techniques is a way to have complete awareness of whats going on around? and a lucid dream is after you left your body but you just dont remember it. Because im also posting on a Lucid Dreaming forum and this was a response i got, someone care to explain?

"Do you believe your spirit is leaving your body? If so, this isn't the right forum to be asking these questions on. This forum is about lucid dreaming, not the supernatural.
If you don't believe your spirit is leaving your body then do you believe your mind is playing tricks on you or that it's just a dream? If so, I've read plenty about that happening in lucid dreams; especially when trying to WILD. It doesn't matter where it happens or how it happens. If it happens and you're lucid then it's a lucid dream. If it happens and you're not lucid then you're just having a dream. "

Why does this person say this?

[Xanth]

I see, that was a lot of good information and im begining to see it a bit more clear now.

So pretty much all "leaving the body" techniques is a way to have complete awareness of whats going on around? and a lucid dream is after you left your body but you just dont remember it. Because im also posting on a Lucid Dreaming forum and this was a response i got, someone care to explain?

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/08/31/dreams-lucid-dreams-and-astral-projections%E2%80%A6-what%E2%80%99s-the-difference/
Give that a read, see what you think. 
Also, this article I wrote regarding what I believe dreams are: http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/10/29/what-are-dreams/

"Do you believe your spirit is leaving your body? If so, this isn't the right forum to be asking these questions on. This forum is about lucid dreaming, not the supernatural.
If you don't believe your spirit is leaving your body then do you believe your mind is playing tricks on you or that it's just a dream? If so, I've read plenty about that happening in lucid dreams; especially when trying to WILD. It doesn't matter where it happens or how it happens. If it happens and you're lucid then it's a lucid dream. If it happens and you're not lucid then you're just having a dream. "

Why does this person say this?

That person says that because they're very closed minded.  They're not willing to open their mind to the possibilities.
I'd highly suggest sticking with us.

Lemme guess, that other forum was... dreammoods.com?

[NickisDank]

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/08/31/dreams-lucid-dreams-and-astral-projections%E2%80%A6-what%E2%80%99s-the-difference/
Give that a read, see what you think. 
Also, this article I wrote regarding what I believe dreams are: http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/10/29/what-are-dreams/
That person says that because they're very closed minded.  They're not willing to open their mind to the possibilities.
I'd highly suggest sticking with us.

Lemme guess, that other forum was... dreammoods.com?

I just read that site you linked me, and im getting the conept better. The site where that person told me that Astral Projection was a myth, it was from DreamViews, and im not getting much help there other than people saying their confused.

Can you answer my next question then, what should i try doing? Should i keep trying to do the astral projection techniques for leaving the body, or should i simply just before i go to bed do reality checks and prompting myself in my head "when i see my hands tonight, i know ill be dreaming" thus trying to induce a lucid dream right?

[Xanth]

I just read that site you linked me, and im getting the conept better. The site where that person told me that Astral Projection was a myth, it was from DreamViews, and im not getting much help there other than people saying their confused.

Dreamviews... yes, sorry that's the one I meant.  lol
Yeah, a few of our members have had less then great experiences from the folks over there.
I generally suggest people to stay away from that particular forum.

Can you answer my next question then, what should i try doing? Should i keep trying to do the astral projection techniques for leaving the body, or should i simply just before i go to bed do reality checks and prompting myself in my head "when i see my hands tonight, i know ill be dreaming" thus trying to induce a lucid dream right?

Well, reality checks are something you must do on a consistent ongoing basis throughout your day.  The point to doing them is to make it so that they're done without thinking... this will carry over into your dreams, which will cause you to become lucid.  Once lucid you can go full astral if you want.

But for the most part, yes.    Just keep doing what you're doing. 

[NickisDank]

So do both pretty much? And  appreciate it so much with everyone helping me and you, and I'm not returning to that site anymore haha. And practicing the OBE technique makes me
Fully lucid automatically right, that's the difference?

And are false awakenings you projecting correctly, it's just close minded individuals think they happen just due to lucid dreaming?

[personalreality]

I wanna clarify that the designations I made are loose at best.  they are based on subjective interpretations of an experience.  in truth it it more like an infinite consciousness continuum containing any state of mind you could possibly be in.  every moment of every day your consciousness shifts back and forth along the continuum to different states of conscious awareness, though our perception has become habituated to focusing in certain areas (like physical reality and related phenomena).

[xp5000]

Here's the thing, and it's a problem I had at one point too. We read books, we visit websites, and we seek advice from other people; but they can't tell us what we are experiencing, because in the end, only you can tell yourself what your experiences mean.

From what I know, and don't take my word, but the two are linked at least when I do it. I use a wake initiated lucid dream to project. My dreams are random, and I have had one lucid dream and that was when I was dreaming and "caught myself". In a lucid dream you have pretty much complete control over your environment, the places I project to is where I don't have complete control. I can't clap my hands and command the people I see to dance or anything like that.

Look for a place where there are boundaries, where people are their own.

[NickisDank]

So do both pretty much? And  appreciate it so much with everyone helping me and you, and I'm not returning to that site anymore haha. And practicing the OBE technique makes me
Fully lucid automatically right, that's the difference?

And are false awakenings you projecting correctly, it's just close minded individuals think they happen just due to lucid dreaming?

Xanth, So then what are the answers for this?

Here's the thing, and it's a problem I had at one point too. We read books, we visit websites, and we seek advice from other people; but they can't tell us what we are experiencing, because in the end, only you can tell yourself what your experiences mean.

From what I know, and don't take my word, but the two are linked at least when I do it. I use a wake initiated lucid dream to project. My dreams are random, and I have had one lucid dream and that was when I was dreaming and "caught myself". In a lucid dream you have pretty much complete control over your environment, the places I project to is where I don't have complete control. I can't clap my hands and command the people I see to dance or anything like that.

Look for a place where there are boundaries, where people are their own.

So you say you "project" but then everythings random? And your not aware of what's going on then you become lucid? If you project correctly you'd be aware that you are though right..

[Inner~Peace]

hey Nickis danky dank, I hope this helps a little, and remember EVERYTHING said here is essentially about a subjective experience, and based on how we each THINK things are, not KNOW.

And are false awakenings you projecting correctly, it's just close minded individuals think they happen just due to lucid dreaming?

My take is that a false awakening is just like any other dream, though your subconscious has you in your room/house or wherever, so that you think you've actually woken up. Like PR (personalreality, if he doesn't mind being called that  ) said,essentially projecting/phasing or whatever you want to call it is a dream, and a dream is projecting, only unaware of it. It all comes down to level of consciousness. For example, a regular dream could be, very crudely, compared to sleepwalking or something on the physical, where your subconscious is running everything. 

Also, there is no way to project incorrectly, it's all a matter of finding the combination that works for you, whether entering from a dream or a conscious exit, whichever gets you better results and which you feel comfortable with. 

I say snoop around the site a bit, look through some old threads if you're not sure what to search for and read what interests you. This forum is jam packed with great info. 

PS. Xanth's a very smart hombre, I'm sure he'll be able to answer your questions better than I can.

~Peace

[Xanth]

Xanth, So then what are the answers for this?

What are False Awakenings?
For all intents and purposes they're regular dreams... with one MAJOR difference:  You think you're physically awake.
You're in the non-physical though.

As I've been saying lately... I don't like saying that you're "in a dream" or you're "in a lucid dream"... as I don't believe these are things you DO.  Instead, I believe these are states that you ARE.

[NickisDank]

Ok so final clarification, doing the OB is the same as you becoming lucid in a dream, it's just you fully project and have all awareness. And theres multiple states you can become in

[personalreality]

I wouldn't worry so much about what they are.  Just use the techniques you learn to try and do it. 

However you see the "nonphysical" is how you see it, and I don't think you or anyone else can give an objective definition for what these experiences are.  So, in the end, all that matters is your subjective experience and what you take away from it.  This is a process whereby you release your imagination through creation (creativity) and learn more about the depths of your being and its relationship with reality.  This makes astral projection (and it's many different forms and labels) a highly personal adventure that doesn't necessarily reflect objectivity.

Have fun exploring and keep that child like awe and belief in what you're doing.

[NickisDank]

Regardless id like to know which one to practice, I dont just want to wonder about which one to do laying in bed, it makes me confused about the whole situation and experience, making it harder to do so in the end as well.

[personalreality]

It doesn't really matter how you do it.  Just pick a technique and try.

[NickisDank]

It doesn't really matter how you do it.  Just pick a technique and try.

I like this answer, thank you greatly

[Xanth]

I like this answer, thank you greatly

It's all very individualistic.
What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for you.

So as PR said... just pick one and try it for a couple weeks.  If you get no results, try something else. 

[NickisDank]

It's all very individualistic.
What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for you.

So as PR said... just pick one and try it for a couple weeks.  If you get no results, try something else.  

Ok, ill be sure to keep everyone updated, because im definitely trying to get this down.

It was really confusing talking to people that didnt have an open-mind set and dont see beyond just dreaming, or becoming aware in the dream on that other site. It was making me ask my questions differently and everything so i just wanted to say thanks for helping me everyone

[personalreality]

what other site?

dreamviewers?

cause they suck.  lol.

[NickisDank]

what other site?

dreamviewers?

cause they suck.  lol.

Ya I was getting the worst answers over there.